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jodeke
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 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Ah gotcha, that's a shame. But hopefully this is her comeback story then. |
Naomi looked good last time out. She's on today She's playing #52 K. Muchová at 4:00. Naomi is #88. On TV Naomi doesn't look to be 5'11"
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | His reaction to winning said it all. Whether you like the guy or don't like him, the Olympic gold medal was basically the last accomplishment on his resume that he didn't have until now. |
In his prime (which was long) I would argue he was the greatest court coverage guy of all time. Truly incredible, it is hard to argue GOAT in tennis just like in many sports with the changes in era's and such but his records speak for themselves.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Ah gotcha, that's a shame. But hopefully this is her comeback story then. |
Naomi looked good last time out. She's on today She's playing #52 K. Muchová at 4:00. Naomi is #88. On TV Naomi doesn't look to be 5'11" |
Osaka just lost a second set tiebreak to lose to Muchova in straight sets. She was up 5-4 in the second set and serving at 40-love. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Alcaraz lost in straight sets:
| Quote: | Carlos Alcaraz's 15-match Grand Slam unbeaten run ended at the US Open with a sloppy 6-1, 7-5, 6-4 loss to 74th-ranked Botic Van De Zandschulp in the second round on Thursday night, a stunning result that eliminated the pre-tournament favorite.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:11 am Post subject: |
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I like Qinwen Zheng's game. She has a powerful serve and ground strokes. Her game overall is solid.
#7 Q.W. Zheng 6 6
#546 J. Niemeier 2 1
Coco started slow. I think she kinda choked in the 3rd set match game. She beat the wife of one of my favorite players Gaël Monfils
#3 Gauff 3 6 6
#28 E. Svitolina 6 3 3
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Djoker lost.
Probably the worst season ever in his career, save for the gold medal he won. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2024 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | Djoker lost.
Probably the worst season ever in his career, save for the gold medal he won. |
He looked older, slower, and more diminished in January in Australia, and that's exactly what he looked like tonight.
He was able to summon something to win his long-awaited Olympic gold, but that was probably in large part due to the fact that those matches could only go three sets. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | Djoker lost.
Probably the worst season ever in his career, save for the gold medal he won. |
He looked older, slower, and more diminished in January in Australia, and that's exactly what he looked like tonight.
He was able to summon something to win his long-awaited Olympic gold, but that was probably in large part due to the fact that those matches could only go three sets. |
Joker strikes me as a man who's lost the desire. He's not playing with the Joker fire. I think he'll give it one more shot and if he doesn't find the old Joker he'll hang up the Wilson.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2024 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | Djoker lost.
Probably the worst season ever in his career, save for the gold medal he won. |
He looked older, slower, and more diminished in January in Australia, and that's exactly what he looked like tonight.
He was able to summon something to win his long-awaited Olympic gold, but that was probably in large part due to the fact that those matches could only go three sets. |
Joker strikes me as a man who's lost the desire. He's not playing with the Joker fire. I think he'll give it one more shot and if he doesn't find the old Joker he'll hang up the Wilson. |
I mean, he's 37 years old. Father Time comes for all athletes. And as Djokovic himself used to take full advantage of, tennis has become a physical war of baseline points, and you really need to be moving at top form to ascend to the absolute height of the sport. Even if he's moving at 90% of what he used to, that's a massive difference. He's still a good mover, of course, but he's fallen clearly below the likes of Alcaraz and Sinner and Zverev in that department. Now add in the fact that he's done it all and has a young family and young kids and sure, perhaps the desire isn't quite the same, and maybe "desire" doesn't mean that he doesn't have the same competitiveness when he's actually playing, but, rather, it could mean that he doesn't feel the motivation to practice quite as hard, stuff like that.
The guy had an amazing year last year, winning 3 of the 4 majors at his age. No one seems to ever want to say that the last one could be the last one, but that's how it was for Serena and it could certainly be this way for Djoker, too. He's still obviously really good. But maybe he's done winning majors. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2024 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | Djoker lost.
Probably the worst season ever in his career, save for the gold medal he won. |
He looked older, slower, and more diminished in January in Australia, and that's exactly what he looked like tonight.
He was able to summon something to win his long-awaited Olympic gold, but that was probably in large part due to the fact that those matches could only go three sets. |
Joker strikes me as a man who's lost the desire. He's not playing with the Joker fire. I think he'll give it one more shot and if he doesn't find the old Joker he'll hang up the Wilson. |
I mean, he's 37 years old. Father Time comes for all athletes. And as Djokovic himself used to take full advantage of, tennis has become a physical war of baseline points, and you really need to be moving at top form to ascend to the absolute height of the sport. Even if he's moving at 90% of what he used to, that's a massive difference. He's still a good mover, of course, but he's fallen clearly below the likes of Alcaraz and Sinner and Zverev in that department. Now add in the fact that he's done it all and has a young family and young kids and sure, perhaps the desire isn't quite the same, and maybe "desire" doesn't mean that he doesn't have the same competitiveness when he's actually playing, but, rather, it could mean that he doesn't feel the motivation to practice quite as hard, stuff like that.
The guy had an amazing year last year, winning 3 of the 4 majors at his age. No one seems to ever want to say that the last one could be the last one, but that's how it was for Serena and it could certainly be this way for Djoker, too. He's still obviously really good. But maybe he's done winning majors. |
Djokovic looks like old Federer right now. No longer the favorite but always a threat when conditions are right. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Tennis is as boring as it’s ever been. Just giants slamming shots at each other from the baseline, waiting for a mistake. It’s like Ivan Lendl on tranquilizers. If they don’t figure out how to introduce a rally or two into a set, no one is going to care soon.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Tennis is as boring as it’s ever been. Just giants slamming shots at each other from the baseline, waiting for a mistake. It’s like Ivan Lendl on tranquilizers. If they don’t figure out how to introduce a rally or two into a set, no one is going to care soon. |
I do think that in terms of visual appeal, it was more fun to watch cat-and-mouse tennis or a battle of wills, like a serve-and-volleyer vs. the cagey baseliner. Sampras vs. Agassi. Navratilova vs. Evert. Edberg vs. Wilander. And on and on. For the men, the game is now largely about big serves and winning baseline battles, as not even the big servers are serving and volleying most of the time, not even at Wimbledon, for goodness sake. The serve isn't quite as much of a factor on the women's side, but it's still a part of the equation for sure. The game has become so much more physical. Physical on the serve (bash it!), physical with powerful groundstrokes, and physical with your movement. That's why it's so fun, for me, to watch players to break this mold a little bit. It's why I love watching Su-Wei Hseih play doubles now, or when she used to play singles, with all that flat redirection of the ball and her touch and lobbing skill. It's also why Alcaraz is great to watch because he mixes in the drop shot so frequently.
In any case, I hear what you're saying. The game evolves and the players are better, but that doesn't mean it's more aesthetically pleasing. I think basketball and baseball are going through something very similar. Baseball has become so focused on analytics and the percentages that it's resulted in far fewer balls being put into play, and basketball has largely become a game of drive-and-kick in some form or fashion, which results in a guy either getting to the rim or somebody shooting a 3. Not enough in between now because on a PPP basis, we know shooting a mid-range 2 isn't the value shot. But that doesn't mean it's more fun to watch. At least, not for many. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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^
I’ll add the NFL too. I miss the running game, and smash mouth football. I miss the days when you needed a balanced attack: running and passing.
Now, it’s all passing. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 4:08 am Post subject: |
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The reason tennis looks worse is that 3 GOATs just exited recently.
Go back 7-8-10 years ago ...
Federer is still a major contender. Federer has a very unique style. All court style with a touch and style you just will never see again. Match up wise anytime someone played Federer it looked interesting. He could play SABR shots or stay back or come to the net. He made it all look easy.
Nadal is still dominant on clay and a contender on hard courts. Nadal plays lefty heavy topspin like no on else. Nadal's topsin and physical style was a joy to watch and greatly complemented Roger.
Djoker was in his prime. He was probably the only really good "boring" machine robotic type of player out there who was constantly in the Slams SFS/Finals/winner. However he was so consistent and good that it made it interesting.
Then you had Andy Murray/Stan Wawrinka, 2 guys with impressive games and not giant like figures.
That's just 5 players who were regular contenders. There was also a small guy in Ferrer who was always in the QFs or SFs. I think that's 6 of your top players all of whom are pretty much between 5'9-6'2.
The whole "big guy" 6'5+ who bashes the ball from way behind the baseline with a big serve was already crowding the top 100 in the ATP. It's just there were enough talents like Federer, Nadal, Djoker, Ferrer, Murray, Wawrinka etc to offset that. Now tennis is lacking those players. |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Tennis is as boring as it’s ever been. Just giants slamming shots at each other from the baseline, waiting for a mistake. It’s like Ivan Lendl on tranquilizers. If they don’t figure out how to introduce a rally or two into a set, no one is going to care soon. |
I do think that in terms of visual appeal, it was more fun to watch cat-and-mouse tennis or a battle of wills, like a serve-and-volleyer vs. the cagey baseliner. Sampras vs. Agassi. Navratilova vs. Evert. Edberg vs. Wilander. And on and on. For the men, the game is now largely about big serves and winning baseline battles, as not even the big servers are serving and volleying most of the time, not even at Wimbledon, for goodness sake. The serve isn't quite as much of a factor on the women's side, but it's still a part of the equation for sure. The game has become so much more physical. Physical on the serve (bash it!), physical with powerful groundstrokes, and physical with your movement. That's why it's so fun, for me, to watch players to break this mold a little bit. It's why I love watching Su-Wei Hseih play doubles now, or when she used to play singles, with all that flat redirection of the ball and her touch and lobbing skill. It's also why Alcaraz is great to watch because he mixes in the drop shot so frequently.
In any case, I hear what you're saying. The game evolves and the players are better, but that doesn't mean it's more aesthetically pleasing. I think basketball and baseball are going through something very similar. Baseball has become so focused on analytics and the percentages that it's resulted in far fewer balls being put into play, and basketball has largely become a game of drive-and-kick in some form or fashion, which results in a guy either getting to the rim or somebody shooting a 3. Not enough in between now because on a PPP basis, we know shooting a mid-range 2 isn't the value shot. But that doesn't mean it's more fun to watch. At least, not for many. |
Yep. This is all because of the deliberate slowing down of all court surfaces since the 1990s. Even Wimbledon is slow now. The last time I checked, the Australian Open actually had the fastest court of all the majors. Add it all up and what matters most now is a good serve and baseline game, and the endurance to make it happen. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Tennis is as boring as it’s ever been. Just giants slamming shots at each other from the baseline, waiting for a mistake. It’s like Ivan Lendl on tranquilizers. If they don’t figure out how to introduce a rally or two into a set, no one is going to care soon. |
I do think that in terms of visual appeal, it was more fun to watch cat-and-mouse tennis or a battle of wills, like a serve-and-volleyer vs. the cagey baseliner. Sampras vs. Agassi. Navratilova vs. Evert. Edberg vs. Wilander. And on and on. For the men, the game is now largely about big serves and winning baseline battles, as not even the big servers are serving and volleying most of the time, not even at Wimbledon, for goodness sake. The serve isn't quite as much of a factor on the women's side, but it's still a part of the equation for sure. The game has become so much more physical. Physical on the serve (bash it!), physical with powerful groundstrokes, and physical with your movement. That's why it's so fun, for me, to watch players to break this mold a little bit. It's why I love watching Su-Wei Hseih play doubles now, or when she used to play singles, with all that flat redirection of the ball and her touch and lobbing skill. It's also why Alcaraz is great to watch because he mixes in the drop shot so frequently.
In any case, I hear what you're saying. The game evolves and the players are better, but that doesn't mean it's more aesthetically pleasing. I think basketball and baseball are going through something very similar. Baseball has become so focused on analytics and the percentages that it's resulted in far fewer balls being put into play, and basketball has largely become a game of drive-and-kick in some form or fashion, which results in a guy either getting to the rim or somebody shooting a 3. Not enough in between now because on a PPP basis, we know shooting a mid-range 2 isn't the value shot. But that doesn't mean it's more fun to watch. At least, not for many. |
Yep. This is all because of the deliberate slowing down of all court surfaces since the 1990s. Even Wimbledon is slow now. The last time I checked, the Australian Open actually had the fastest court of all the majors. Add it all up and what matters most now is a good serve and baseline game, and the endurance to make it happen. |
Yeah, the balls are slower and the courts are slower. Now couple that with the racket technology, and it's just too easy to hit great groundstrokes. To address wolf's post above, where he mentioned Federer, even Federer stopped serving and volleying at Wimbledon because it just wasn't a winning play anymore, at least, not against the best returners and baseliners. You just didn't gain enough of an advantage and with the slower balls and courts, and for many of the guys, seeing a guy come to net is like target practice. |
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Halflife
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | lets go Americans. |
Came up short in both men's and women's singles. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lets go Americans. |
Came up short in both men's and women's singles. |
Women there was a chance as Coco showed in 2023. Heck Radacanu and even Bianca have won 1. Anyone can win in women’s on any given day.
Men impossible for me to see any of these guys beat Alcarez or Sinner in a slam Final. There’s just a significant level gap. The only one I can see pull off beating them in a Slam Final would be Medvedev or Djoker. I can’t see Paul Tiafoe or Fritz pull it off.
The American men need literally all the top guys to bow out early for them to win one. They’re just not striking the ball on the move even closely as well as Sinner/Alcaraz. They need a slam where all of Sinner Alcaraz and Djokovic don’t play/make it past the early rounds. Even then Medvedev is the most ready to win in that scenario, he seems to always lose to the eventual winner. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | lets go Americans. |
Came up short in both men's and women's singles. |
Women there was a chance as Coco showed in 2023. Heck Radacanu and even Bianca have won 1. Anyone can win in women’s on any given day.
Men impossible for me to see any of these guys beat Alcarez or Sinner in a slam Final. There’s just a significant level gap. The only one I can see pull off beating them in a Slam Final would be Medvedev or Djoker. I can’t see Paul Tiafoe or Fritz pull it off.
The American men need literally all the top guys to bow out early for them to win one. They’re just not striking the ball on the move even closely as well as Sinner/Alcaraz. They need a slam where all of Sinner Alcaraz and Djokovic don’t play/make it past the early rounds. Even then Medvedev is the most ready to win in that scenario, he seems to always lose to the eventual winner. |
I think Shelton probably has the highest upside of any of the American men because of his serve, and he does move really well. And he can unleash his groundstrokes. But despite the really good movement, he doesn't actually defend as well as the top players, and his net game is suspect as well. Still, he's young enough to where some of that stuff could improve. I don't see Fritz or Tiafoe getting any better, and Paul is what he is, which is to say he doesn't have the weapons to win a Slam. He's basically the American version of what De Minaur is for the Aussies. |
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Halflife
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | Nadal retiring is probably best but for me, he is the goat on the mens side.
Nadal
Fed
Djok
Sampras
Serena is the tennis goat in general. |
If aliens ever landed and said we needed to provide one man to play a tennis match to determine the fate of the planet, give me prime Nadal on Court Philippe Chatrier.
I have him second after Djokovic, but man was he something else at Roland Garros. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | Nadal retiring is probably best but for me, he is the goat on the mens side.
Nadal
Fed
Djok
Sampras
Serena is the tennis goat in general. |
If aliens ever landed and said we needed to provide one man to play a tennis match to determine the fate of the planet, give me prime Nadal on Court Philippe Chatrier.
I have him second after Djokovic, but man was he something else at Roland Garros. |
he was a bull. favorite player ever. He would just grind people down.
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