|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DLaker
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1572
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers Draft vs who is better. Just wanted to show how few a player we missed out on
2014 Pick (7) Randle - (13) Lavine and (41) Jokic
2014 Pick (46) Clarkson - None
2015 Pick (2) Dlo - (4) Porzingis and (13) Booker ? (11) Turner
2015 Pick (27) Nance - (30) Looney
2016 Pick (2) Bi - (3) Brown ? (7) Murray (11) Sabonis 27 (Siakam)
2016 Pick (32) Zu - None
2017 Pick (2) Lonzo - (3) Tatum (5) Fox (7) Lauri (13) Donovan - GOT US AD
2017 Pick (27) Kuz - (29) White
2017 Pick (30) Hart - None
2017 Pick (47) Bryant - (43) Hartenstein
2017 Undrafted Caruso - None
2018 Pick (25) Mo - (27) Williams (33) Brunson (36) Robinson ? (37) Trent (42) Brown
2018 Pick (47) Svi - ? (49) Metu (54) Milton
2019 Pick (46) THT - (48) Mann
2020 No Pick
2021 Undrafted Reeves - None
2022 Pick (35) Max - None
2023 Pick (17) Jalen - (18) Jaquez (19) Podziemski (20) Cam - all looks better but too early to tell for a 21 yr old
2023 Pick (40) Lewis - too early to tell for a 22 yr old
2024 Pick (17) Knecht - looks like a player
2024 Pick (55) Bronny - if he stick around doubt any will be better pick wise
Overall except for 2017 Zo which is part of AD trade and 2023 Jalen we picked players that actually plays in the league. To expect a superstar level on the place we pick in the draft is just a reach. Getting players like Reeves and Caruso and them developing into a player they are today are a blessing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
defense
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 40460
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| DLaker wrote: | Lakers Draft vs who is better. Just wanted to show how few a player we missed out on
2014 Pick (7) Randle - (13) Lavine and (41) Jokic
2014 Pick (46) Clarkson - None
2015 Pick (2) Dlo - (4) Porzingis and (13) Booker ? (11) Turner
2015 Pick (27) Nance - (30) Looney
2016 Pick (2) Bi - (3) Brown ? (7) Murray (11) Sabonis 27 (Siakam)
2016 Pick (32) Zu - None
2017 Pick (2) Lonzo - (3) Tatum (5) Fox (7) Lauri (13) Donovan - GOT US AD
2017 Pick (27) Kuz - (29) White
2017 Pick (30) Hart - None
2017 Pick (47) Bryant - (43) Hartenstein
2017 Undrafted Caruso - None
2018 Pick (25) Mo - (27) Williams (33) Brunson (36) Robinson ? (37) Trent (42) Brown
2018 Pick (47) Svi - ? (49) Metu (54) Milton
2019 Pick (46) THT - (48) Mann
2020 No Pick
2021 Undrafted Reeves - None
2022 Pick (35) Max - None
2023 Pick (17) Jalen - (18) Jaquez (19) Podziemski (20) Cam - all looks better but too early to tell for a 21 yr old
2023 Pick (40) Lewis - too early to tell for a 22 yr old
2024 Pick (17) Knecht - looks like a player
2024 Pick (55) Bronny - if he stick around doubt any will be better pick wise
Overall except for 2017 Zo which is part of AD trade and 2023 Jalen we picked players that actually plays in the league. To expect a superstar level on the place we pick in the draft is just a reach. Getting players like Reeves and Caruso and them developing into a player they are today are a blessing. |
Should drafted Jokic, Pozingis, Brown, Tatum, White, Brunson
not 1 not 2 not 3 ............ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12406
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The dude plays the game hard and the right way at a bargain price to boot. Puts up efficient numbers playing selfless basketball. As a fan, that's all I could ever want. The lame contrarian posts baffles me.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1879
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 12:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2143
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. 
_________________
ZOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 145050
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2024 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Reaves is a good unathletic role player, every team ideally needs 3-4 good role players. His unathletic side shows defensively but he is still a guy you want on the floor. He isn’t a problem, the missing other 2-3 good role players are. Reaves suffers from the ridiculous takes of the FO when they say they will only trade him for a superstar. He isn’t that player.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mhan00
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32233
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2024 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Reaves is a good unathletic role player, every team ideally needs 3-4 good role players. His unathletic side shows defensively but he is still a guy you want on the floor. He isn’t a problem, the missing other 2-3 good role players are. Reaves suffers from the ridiculous takes of the FO when they say they will only trade him for a superstar. He isn’t that player. |
The FO won’t trade him for anything but a superstar because his value relative to his contract is amazing. Anyone we try to trade him for at his contract or less (since we can’t take more money than we send out) would be a minus for us. And if we combined him with other players for a bigger contract, we’d need a superstar back in order to make up for the production loss we’d suffer sending AR/Rui or Dlo out, for example. Sending AR plus Rui out for Jerami Grant, for instance, would just be a massively stupid move. AR’s price controlled contract just puts him in a situation where it is highly unlikely he can be moved at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27679
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 145050
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mhan00 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Reaves is a good unathletic role player, every team ideally needs 3-4 good role players. His unathletic side shows defensively but he is still a guy you want on the floor. He isn’t a problem, the missing other 2-3 good role players are. Reaves suffers from the ridiculous takes of the FO when they say they will only trade him for a superstar. He isn’t that player. |
The FO won’t trade him for anything but a superstar because his value relative to his contract is amazing. Anyone we try to trade him for at his contract or less (since we can’t take more money than we send out) would be a minus for us. And if we combined him with other players for a bigger contract, we’d need a superstar back in order to make up for the production loss we’d suffer sending AR/Rui or Dlo out, for example. Sending AR plus Rui out for Jerami Grant, for instance, would just be a massively stupid move. AR’s price controlled contract just puts him in a situation where it is highly unlikely he can be moved at all. |
Not true, dealing Reaves for Herb Jones would be possible contractually and a great move. But yeah, NO wouldn’t consider despite his amazing value relative to his contract. I’m fine with Reaves but would send him packing if a good deal is presented.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DLaker
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1572
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Reaves is a good unathletic role player, every team ideally needs 3-4 good role players. His unathletic side shows defensively but he is still a guy you want on the floor. He isn’t a problem, the missing other 2-3 good role players are. Reaves suffers from the ridiculous takes of the FO when they say they will only trade him for a superstar. He isn’t that player. |
The FO won’t trade him for anything but a superstar because his value relative to his contract is amazing. Anyone we try to trade him for at his contract or less (since we can’t take more money than we send out) would be a minus for us. And if we combined him with other players for a bigger contract, we’d need a superstar back in order to make up for the production loss we’d suffer sending AR/Rui or Dlo out, for example. Sending AR plus Rui out for Jerami Grant, for instance, would just be a massively stupid move. AR’s price controlled contract just puts him in a situation where it is highly unlikely he can be moved at all. |
Not true, dealing Reaves for Herb Jones would be possible contractually and a great move. But yeah, NO wouldn’t consider despite his amazing value relative to his contract. I’m fine with Reaves but would send him packing if a good deal is presented. |
Herb Jones also have a great value contract, why would NO trade him unless it’s for a big name star. Makes no sense, just like trading AR where its a lateral move. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 145050
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
The statement was made that there is no players near Reave’s contract that you would trade him for, that it would have to be a package for a superstar. You would be foolish not to want that trade. That is an example of where the FO isn’t doing Reaves’ reputation any good.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zillethai
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 1332
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sonic the laker wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. |
Why are you patting yourself on the back? You didn’t refute a single one of his claims. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2143
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2024 7:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zillethai wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. |
Why are you patting yourself on the back? You didn’t refute a single one of his claims. |
You clearly missed the purpose of my post. It wasn't to refute any particular claims about Austin's game. That's too exhausting, and it's been done to death. My post was meant to highlight Austin's upwards trending contributions to the team. As opposed to hyper-focusing on his weaknesses (relative lack of athleticism, average defender).
The problem last season wasn't Austin. It was injuries, and bad coaching. Austin's deficiencies were punctuated because of this (along with coming into the season on tired legs). Fundamentally, Austin is/was the same player he was in his first and second year, that a lot of people were hype about.
I hope this helps you understand...in some small way...why I patted myself on the back.
_________________
ZOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hanging from Rafters
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5205
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 10:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sonic the laker wrote: | | Zillethai wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. |
Why are you patting yourself on the back? You didn’t refute a single one of his claims. |
You clearly missed the purpose of my post. It wasn't to refute any particular claims about Austin's game. That's too exhausting, and it's been done to death. My post was meant to highlight Austin's upwards trending contributions to the team. As opposed to hyper-focusing on his weaknesses (relative lack of athleticism, average defender).
The problem last season wasn't Austin. It was injuries, and bad coaching. Austin's deficiencies were punctuated because of this (along with coming into the season on tired legs). Fundamentally, Austin is/was the same player he was in his first and second year, that a lot of people were hype about.
I hope this helps you understand...in some small way...why I patted myself on the back. |
Sorry dude, you were the one that missed it. It’s clear you wanted to refute claims with your opening line, was clear to probably anyone but you. It’s as if you cheered for yourself after not only failing to score but turned the ball over as well! It’s cool tho, do you.
Japago seemed to make good points. AR is valuable, and has limits, makes sense to me. Seems you only highlighted his strengths and offered excuses for the challenges. Again, it’s cool tho 😎 we all benefit from diverse opinions most times, and it’s ok if we disagree, ultimately we’re all on the same team.
Go Lakers!!!
_________________
“When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zillethai
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 1332
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Zillethai wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. |
Why are you patting yourself on the back? You didn’t refute a single one of his claims. |
You clearly missed the purpose of my post. It wasn't to refute any particular claims about Austin's game. That's too exhausting, and it's been done to death. My post was meant to highlight Austin's upwards trending contributions to the team. As opposed to hyper-focusing on his weaknesses (relative lack of athleticism, average defender).
The problem last season wasn't Austin. It was injuries, and bad coaching. Austin's deficiencies were punctuated because of this (along with coming into the season on tired legs). Fundamentally, Austin is/was the same player he was in his first and second year, that a lot of people were hype about.
I hope this helps you understand...in some small way...why I patted myself on the back. |
Sorry dude, you were the one that missed it. It’s clear you wanted to refute claims with your opening line, was clear to probably anyone but you. It’s as if you cheered for yourself after not only failing to score but turned the ball over as well! It’s cool tho, do you.
Japago seemed to make good points. AR is valuable, and has limits, makes sense to me. Seems you only highlighted his strengths and offered excuses for the challenges. Again, it’s cool tho 😎 we all benefit from diverse opinions most times, and it’s ok if we disagree, ultimately we’re all on the same team.
Go Lakers!!! |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 26063
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
So AR was in 95th percentile for point generated per shot last season, pretty elite
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2143
|
| Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Zillethai wrote: | | sonic the laker wrote: | | Japago wrote: | Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
He's limited.
He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
Shot selection can be poor from him.
He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players. |
Couldn't agree less with everything you said. I like how people who seek to detract from Reaves, first seek to set up some kind of false narrative that Austin should be some type of star player. He doesn't have to be a star, to be a valuable contributor to a team. Just look at Caruso for example. But, I'm going to bring this back to proper context...
In Reaves first year, at the old age of 24, he averaged 7.3 pts, 1.8 asts, 3.2 rebs., on shooting splits of 45%/31%/83%, playing 23 min/gm.
In his second year, at the old old age of 25, Reaves averaged 13 pts, 3.4 asts., 3 rebs., on shooting splits of 52%/39%/86%, playing 28 min/gm.
In his third year, at the ancient age of 26, Austin averaged 15.9 pts, 5.5 asts., 4.3 rebs., on shooting splits of 48%/36%/85%, playing 32 mins/gm.
Every year, impossible as it may seem...and contrary to the absolute laws of the universe...Reaves production has seen a positive uptick. Granted, his shooting numbers took a slight dip. But, are by no means "bad". And, that's taking into account having no rest during the offseason, skipping training camp and preseason, to snatch some rest, thus starting the regular season cold AND on tired legs. While having to be the Lakers primary perimeter defender, due to injuries to Vando/Vincent, and Cam's inconsistency...
Hooray for context. Yay me. |
Why are you patting yourself on the back? You didn’t refute a single one of his claims. |
You clearly missed the purpose of my post. It wasn't to refute any particular claims about Austin's game. That's too exhausting, and it's been done to death. My post was meant to highlight Austin's upwards trending contributions to the team. As opposed to hyper-focusing on his weaknesses (relative lack of athleticism, average defender).
The problem last season wasn't Austin. It was injuries, and bad coaching. Austin's deficiencies were punctuated because of this (along with coming into the season on tired legs). Fundamentally, Austin is/was the same player he was in his first and second year, that a lot of people were hype about.
I hope this helps you understand...in some small way...why I patted myself on the back. |
Sorry dude, you were the one that missed it. It’s clear you wanted to refute claims with your opening line, was clear to probably anyone but you. It’s as if you cheered for yourself after not only failing to score but turned the ball over as well! It’s cool tho, do you.
Japago seemed to make good points. AR is valuable, and has limits, makes sense to me. Seems you only highlighted his strengths and offered excuses for the challenges. Again, it’s cool tho 😎 we all benefit from diverse opinions most times, and it’s ok if we disagree, ultimately we’re all on the same team.
Go Lakers!!! |
I bolded the point in my original post, just to make sure you can see it. Because, it seems that you only got as far as my opening line, and didn't read any further. I has thought I has articulated myself well enough. Apparently, I was mistaken, so here I go...again...(and, I'll even hit this point by point)
1. Nobody is saying AR is a scrub. But, he's ultimately just an ok to above average role player. Nothing more, nothing less.
-Austin is a high quality role player. On an off year...for him...he shot equal to, or better, than league average across the board.
FG%, 48%>47%; 2P%, 58%>54%; 3P%, 36%=36%; eFG%, 56%>54%; FT%, 85%>78%; TS%, 61%>58%
And, while his efficiency took a dip, his overall production increased, along with his usage. This while playing on tired legs, with bad coaching, and being asked to do more on offense, while being the teams go-to perimeter defender...
2. He's limited.
-The same can be said for every player in the league.
3. He was an absolute SIEVE on defense at times last year. Up to some point in January, he had the 2nd worst defensive EPM in the league. I saw a guy so bad on defense that opposite offenses where actually game-planning so that he's the on-ball defender. He got picked apart in those FIBA games, and it carried into the regular season.
-Why cherry pick just one month (January)? It's well known that Austin was having an inconsistent year. But...once again...perspective. Over the year, Austin's EPM was -1.2, with the league average being -1.0. Reaves DEFRTG was better than players like Portis, Wiggins, Jerami Grant, Scottie/Harrison Barnes, and Haliburton...just saying. (Reaves also beats some of those same players in DBPM) No, clearly Reaves is not a defender on par with the likes of Vando. But, trying to discredit him as a whole player by only targeting his defense is insane.
Reaves is pretty good at one-on-one defense. It's running through picks/screens, where he has issues, imo.
4. He went through a big shooting drought during the regular season, and was an absolute BRICK in the playoffs.
-No argument here. Reaves was inconsistent shooting wise. Which only got worse in the playoffs. Fair. But, once again...context. As stated before, even in a down year (for him), Austin still shot better than league average in all categories...in a DOWN YEAR.
5. Shot selection can be poor from him.
-Going back to previously stated stats... Reaves eFG% was 56%, compared to the league average of 54%. His TS% was 61%, compared to the league average of 58%. Poor shot selection wasn't the issue, imo. Tired legs, and poor coaching.
6. He's a guy with clear weaknesses who doesn't seem to have any great strengths. I want to see more PnR with someone outside of AD before I declare that a great strength. But I will concede that the other options outside of AD are trash right now, so maybe it wouldn't be fair to judge him with the other options either.
-Not sure what to make of this statement. Out of our big men, AD is...by far...the best player to involve in PnR actions. Not sure why involving AD in the offense would be a flaw against Reaves... He should wave AD away, or ignore him, to prove himself as a quality player?
7. I don't see him as a great play-maker otherwise. He doesn't feel like a guy who you can just throw the ball to and create with offense or elite vision with off-ball actions.
-He absolutely IS a great playmaker, with excellent court vision/awareness. No, he is not someone you just throw the ball to, and watch have him create off the dribble, ala Kyrie, Lou Williams, or Jamal Crawford. That's not his game. He's a good crafty ball handler. Not great, or quick, one. But, despite this, Reaves still averaged 15 points/game, shooting 48% from the field.
8. All and all, I don't see how any of that signals he'll get to a Kyle Lowry-level one day.
-Kyle Lowry wasn't Kyle Lowry, until his 12th/13th season (peak). A fairer comparison would be each players relative seasons. Austin scored 7ppg, 13ppg, and 15ppg, in his first three years. In comparison, Lowry scored 5ppg, 9ppg, 7ppg, in his first three years. Lowry didn't put up double digit points until his 7th year, at 13.5 ppg, with shooting splits of 42% FG/37% 3pt/76% FT.
I think Reaves is a bit ahead of the curve on this one. Though, to be fair, Lowry was the better defender.
9. He may be good value for his contract, but the Lakers aren't going anywhere until they get upgrades.
-And, exactly who are these viable upgrade candidates? Everyone keeps talking about getting upgrades, but can't provide anything other than vagaries, supposition, and wishes. What player(s) is available for trade that legitimately catapults the Lakers to unquestioned contenders, that works within cap rules? Not 2k standards.
10. As I've been saying all along, he, DLo, and Rui all aren't fit to be the primary supporting cast on a championship team.
-Hard disagree. This same primary supporting cast went to the Conference Finals just last season. They lost against the Nuggets, who would go on to win the championship. And, that's with getting those same players half way through the season. Recency bias is a mofo...
11. The Lakers are spending $70 mil on DLo, Rui, AR, Gabe, and Vando. Some of that can be consolidated into a higher tier player and/or multiple better-fitting players.
-Refer back to [9.]
-There. I didn't feel like all that was necessary. But, since I was erroneously called out for "It’s as if you cheered for yourself after not only failing to score but turned the ball over as well!", I thought it would behoove me to toss the replay flag, and have the refs check the call on the floor...aaaannnd, yep. It seems you were in clear violation. Fouls on you, and I get the ball back.
Japago made points, yes. Its a matter of opinion if those points are considered "good". And, no, that's not a disparagement. Because that goes for all of us, including myself. Yes, AR has limits. Same as any player in the league. I highlighted his strengths, while also acknowledging his slippage. His "bambi legs" due to continued play through the offseason, were a well known fact, not an "excuse". But, you may disagree. And, as you say, that's absolutely cool. We do indeed all benefit from diverse opinions most times, and it's ok if we disagree, ultimately we're all on the same team.
Go Lakers!!  
_________________
ZOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12406
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Is my boy AR just incapable of putting on any muscle? His body looks exactly the same from when he came into the NBA. I just don't understand how you have all those resources at your disposal and can't build your body up. On the flip side, Dalton looks strong and well-built for the league. AR needs to get on whatever workout regimen he's on.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zillethai
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 1332
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hard_Butter wrote: | | Is my boy AR just incapable of putting on any muscle? His body looks exactly the same from when he came into the NBA. I just don't understand how you have all those resources at your disposal and can't build your body up. On the flip side, Dalton looks strong and well-built for the league. AR needs to get on whatever workout regimen he's on. |
He has the body of a 12 year old |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Inverse
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 2190
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 1:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
The problem with AR is he spends his off seasons golfing rather than putting on muscle
_________________
He's my GOAT |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18995
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Hard_Butter wrote: | | Is my boy AR just incapable of putting on any muscle? His body looks exactly the same from when he came into the NBA. I just don't understand how you have all those resources at your disposal and can't build your body up. On the flip side, Dalton looks strong and well-built for the league. AR needs to get on whatever workout regimen he's on. |
I had the same thought. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 26063
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
His body is same type as AD, no?
_________________
“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hard_Butter
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
Posts: 12406
Location: The Two One Three
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tox wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Is my boy AR just incapable of putting on any muscle? His body looks exactly the same from when he came into the NBA. I just don't understand how you have all those resources at your disposal and can't build your body up. On the flip side, Dalton looks strong and well-built for the league. AR needs to get on whatever workout regimen he's on. |
I had the same thought. |
My question is that is it a 'can't' or a 'don't'? I get that some guys just can't put on size/muscle no matter what due to genetics -- guys like KD, Reggie, and BI come to mind. Some skinny guys are just doomed to be skinny despite how hard they try. But AR seems to me like a guy who hasn't picked up a dumbbell in a hot minute. So, it's a 'don't' for me.
But still.....this doughy-skinny dude continues to ball out at the highest level. If I'm his homie, I'm telling him to lift and be better.
_________________
The butter's hard and the eggs are chillin' in the dark.
Kiss my Converse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18502
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18995
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2024 12:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hard_Butter wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | | Is my boy AR just incapable of putting on any muscle? His body looks exactly the same from when he came into the NBA. I just don't understand how you have all those resources at your disposal and can't build your body up. On the flip side, Dalton looks strong and well-built for the league. AR needs to get on whatever workout regimen he's on. |
I had the same thought. |
My question is that is it a 'can't' or a 'don't'? I get that some guys just can't put on size/muscle no matter what due to genetics -- guys like KD, Reggie, and BI come to mind. Some skinny guys are just doomed to be skinny despite how hard they try. But AR seems to me like a guy who hasn't picked up a dumbbell in a hot minute. So, it's a 'don't' for me.
But still.....this doughy-skinny dude continues to ball out at the highest level. If I'm his homie, I'm telling him to lift and be better. |
I have no idea. I have the same build, and I'm a casual lifter and not, y'know, a professional basketball player. I'm sure he's lifting but I feel like Max has a similar build and you can start to see the definition.
Not that any of that really matters, I care more about his base strength (core and legs), kinda like how Steph could deadlift 400lbs. How much do we think AR deadlifts? 250? lol |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
