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DaMuleRules Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 54263 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2024 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yep. Bonds actively cheated and that’s get worse, even others were too. There’s no evidence Rose ever actually affected the outcome of a game.
That said, it’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the Honorable. _________________ HARRIS WALZ 2024 |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 69763 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 39407
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:04 am Post subject: |
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jodeke wrote: | I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. |
His personality rubs certain baseball journalists and baseball people the wrong way. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 69763 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. |
His personality rubs certain baseball journalists and baseball people the wrong way. |
What is it about his personality that disturbs these people? Is it abrasive, assertive, nonchalant? I always seen him as a lover of the game. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 34222 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:18 am Post subject: |
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lakersken80 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. |
His personality rubs certain baseball journalists and baseball people the wrong way. |
Well he was convicted of tax evasion and did spend 5 months in prison. OK, sure, doesn't necessarily mean that one is a bad person. How about this: he had an ongoing sexual relationship with a minor who was between the ages of 14-15 when he was in his 30's. (Rose acknowledged this himself as part of a 2016 lawsuit.) The age of consent in Ohio at the time was 16. In addition, there's ample speculation, if not outright evidence, that Rose had a habit of having sex with underage girls during Spring Training. I'll provide some links below, should anyone care to check it out.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208447/woman-accuses-pete-rose-statutory-rape
https://www.espn.in/mlb/story/_/id/34364479/pete-rose-dismisses-sexual-misconduct-questions-phillies-bash-was-55-years-ago-babe
"It happened over 50 years ago, so who cares?", is basically how he felt about it. This is who the guy was. I realize that attitudes in the 1970's about many things were much different. If she had been 16 or 17, hey, that would have been legal there, even if he was in his 30's. But 34 and 14? And as for believing his claim that they did have the relationship but she was 16 and not younger, well, what possible credibility does this guy have? He was a degenerate gambler and a liar and a scuzzball. But go ahead, believe him if you want to. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90626 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:57 am Post subject: |
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There is almost nothing positive to say about Pete Rose as a person. He made Ty Cobb look warm and loving. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 69763 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:58 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. |
His personality rubs certain baseball journalists and baseball people the wrong way. |
Well he was convicted of tax evasion and did spend 5 months in prison. OK, sure, doesn't necessarily mean that one is a bad person. How about this: he had an ongoing sexual relationship with a minor who was between the ages of 14-15 when he was in his 30's. (Rose acknowledged this himself as part of a 2016 lawsuit.) The age of consent in Ohio at the time was 16. In addition, there's ample speculation, if not outright evidence, that Rose had a habit of having sex with underage girls during Spring Training. I'll provide some links below, should anyone care to check it out.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208447/woman-accuses-pete-rose-statutory-rape
https://www.espn.in/mlb/story/_/id/34364479/pete-rose-dismisses-sexual-misconduct-questions-phillies-bash-was-55-years-ago-babe
"It happened over 50 years ago, so who cares?", is basically how he felt about it. This is who the guy was. I realize that attitudes in the 1970's about many things were much different. If she had been 16 or 17, hey, that would have been legal there, even if he was in his 30's. But 34 and 14? And as for believing his claim that they did have the relationship but she was 16 and not younger, well, what possible credibility does this guy have? He was a degenerate gambler and a liar and a scuzzball. But go ahead, believe him if you want to. |
Honestly, I didn't remember those charges. Those charges shed a different on things. They give reasons to why some with votes chose not to vote him into the HOF. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves. |
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lakersken80 Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009 Posts: 39407
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:55 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | lakersken80 wrote: | jodeke wrote: | I'm a Pete Rose fan. I'd like to know what the dislike of him stems from. If it's solely from betting on baseball I think it's unwarranted. Are there other reasons? if so please list and elaborate. |
His personality rubs certain baseball journalists and baseball people the wrong way. |
Well he was convicted of tax evasion and did spend 5 months in prison. OK, sure, doesn't necessarily mean that one is a bad person. How about this: he had an ongoing sexual relationship with a minor who was between the ages of 14-15 when he was in his 30's. (Rose acknowledged this himself as part of a 2016 lawsuit.) The age of consent in Ohio at the time was 16. In addition, there's ample speculation, if not outright evidence, that Rose had a habit of having sex with underage girls during Spring Training. I'll provide some links below, should anyone care to check it out.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20208447/woman-accuses-pete-rose-statutory-rape
https://www.espn.in/mlb/story/_/id/34364479/pete-rose-dismisses-sexual-misconduct-questions-phillies-bash-was-55-years-ago-babe
"It happened over 50 years ago, so who cares?", is basically how he felt about it. This is who the guy was. I realize that attitudes in the 1970's about many things were much different. If she had been 16 or 17, hey, that would have been legal there, even if he was in his 30's. But 34 and 14? And as for believing his claim that they did have the relationship but she was 16 and not younger, well, what possible credibility does this guy have? He was a degenerate gambler and a liar and a scuzzball. But go ahead, believe him if you want to. |
Those were recent revelations. I'm talking about the fact that he wasn't loved by a lot of the journalists and people in baseball. Even before he got banned for gambling. It was probably because he was incredibly rough around the edges and probably not the type of person that you want promoting the game of baseball. |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8667 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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^^ Obviously a grown man hooking up with and boning a 14-year-old girl is wrong and creepy. Tax evasion is wrong. But when voting whether to induct an athlete into the Hall of Fame, what he did off the field shouldn't matter that much. It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Morality.
You don't have to like someone or think they're a decent human being to respect what they did for a living. Two things can be true at the same time.
For example, I hate Elon Musk. Every time I see a picture of him I want to punch him in the face, and he has enabled antisemitism to spread across his toy formerly known as Twitter. But I respect what he has tried to do when it comes to electric cars and things like that (even though I don't care about colonizing Mars and that kind of thing). _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 34222 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2024 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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^
As I said before, lifetime ban. He committed the one cardinal sin at the time that everyone, and I mean everyone, knew you couldn't f with. I don't think he deserved the sport's highest honor while alive, and I'll die -- pun intended -- on that hill. |
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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 69763 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2024 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm torn. As Slavavov said this is the Hall Of Fame not the Hall Of Morality. Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantel were alcoholics. Barry Bonds and Iván Rodríguez were juicers. I'm torn because Pete was a pedophile. That makes the offense a higher mention. I'm honestly at a point of indecision. I want him in because of the way he played the game but I don't want him in for his sexual indiscretions.
EDIT: I agree Pete committed the cardinal sin because of the Black Sox Scandal but that doesn't move me to one side of the fence or the other because I don't think Pete threw any games. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Oct 14, 2024 8:42 am; edited 2 times in total |
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LA1969 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Mar 2008 Posts: 847 Location: LA in my mind, LV in reality
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Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2024 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | slavavov wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | jodeke wrote: | WOW! Look at this page. Celebrities are dropping like flies.
Pete would run to 1st base on a walk. Players have done things more egregious than gambling and they're in the HOF. He admitted to betting on baseball, including Reds games, though he said he never bet against his team. He may not be in this realm to see it if it comes to fruition but he may see it on the other side. Pete Rose belongs in the Hall Of Fame. RIP Charlie Hustle. |
My position was always that he should be put into the Hall...after his death. Didn't deserve the honor while he was alive. |
Why not?
He was way before my time, but his accomplishments and the passion he played the game with speak for themselves. They really messed up by not inducting him into Cooperstown while he was still alive. |
Let's set aside that he was a wretched human being for a moment. He committed THE cardinal sin that you can't do, or certainly couldn't at the time, which was to bet on baseball. A gambling scandal literally almost brought down the entire sport. Everyone knew that was the one thing you couldn't do. He did it. Not only did he do it, he then lied about it and kept up the lie for years and years. And here's the other thing: he accepted a lifetime ban. Lifetime. And no one better tell me the Rose line of "I thought I could re-apply for reinstatement in a year and it would be a formality." You really believe that? The guy took a lifetime ban. To me, that pretty clearly means that he did not deserve the sport's highest honor while he was still alive. Lifetime ban, folks.
Go ahead and put him in now. Wouldn't bother me. He didn't deserve the joy of being inducted while he was alive, I'm sorry. |
Well said. I’m old and saw him play as a Red and Philly. He was a total wreck of a human being. If they wanna put him in the HOF now cool. _________________ "Time wounds all heels". -John Lennon |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 17666
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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LA1969 wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | slavavov wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | jodeke wrote: | WOW! Look at this page. Celebrities are dropping like flies.
Pete would run to 1st base on a walk. Players have done things more egregious than gambling and they're in the HOF. He admitted to betting on baseball, including Reds games, though he said he never bet against his team. He may not be in this realm to see it if it comes to fruition but he may see it on the other side. Pete Rose belongs in the Hall Of Fame. RIP Charlie Hustle. |
My position was always that he should be put into the Hall...after his death. Didn't deserve the honor while he was alive. |
Why not?
He was way before my time, but his accomplishments and the passion he played the game with speak for themselves. They really messed up by not inducting him into Cooperstown while he was still alive. |
Let's set aside that he was a wretched human being for a moment. He committed THE cardinal sin that you can't do, or certainly couldn't at the time, which was to bet on baseball. A gambling scandal literally almost brought down the entire sport. Everyone knew that was the one thing you couldn't do. He did it. Not only did he do it, he then lied about it and kept up the lie for years and years. And here's the other thing: he accepted a lifetime ban. Lifetime. And no one better tell me the Rose line of "I thought I could re-apply for reinstatement in a year and it would be a formality." You really believe that? The guy took a lifetime ban. To me, that pretty clearly means that he did not deserve the sport's highest honor while he was still alive. Lifetime ban, folks.
Go ahead and put him in now. Wouldn't bother me. He didn't deserve the joy of being inducted while he was alive, I'm sorry. |
Well said. I’m old and saw him play as a Red and Philly. He was a total wreck of a human being. If they wanna put him in the HOF now cool. |
This is the part that I don't get.
A HOF induction = a celebration, which comes with a ceremony. It's like a wedding, or a graduation. It's a special day.
Waiting until he dies to induct him means his death triggers a celebration.
Let the dude RIP. Whatever he did wrong, dude paid for it and is dead now.
Why celebrate his death by inducting him into the HOF now?
There should be no "lifetime bans". Either ban him for eternity, or let him in while dude was alive.
But, waiting for him to die to admit him seems awfully cruel. It's also cruel to his family.
My analogy would be this: let's say you move into a neighborhood that hates you so much, they waited until you moved out to throw a "welcome to the neighborhood" party in your honor.
If Pete Rose was my dad, I'd be livid if they held an induction ceremony in his honor now. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 34222 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough. You've convinced me. Don't put him in now, or ever. |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 17666
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Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Fair enough. You've convinced me. Don't put him in now, or ever. |
👍
Yup. I don’t agree with an eternity ban in this situation, but I definitely think it’s less cruel than a lifetime ban. |
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