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unleasHell
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 Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| rmonkey wrote: | | Has anyone seen the Dalton Knecht thread? It used to be around here somewhere. |
I was happy, when this guy, who was penciled in to be a Top-10 pick by many, fell down to the Lakers..
I was worried when his Summer & (the start of) Pre-Season play was just so-so.
I am super happy at how he is performing in the Regular Season...!
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CRoost
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated. |
Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.
Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable. |
"no other bidders for Davis" might be confused with he wanted to come to LA. Almost every team in the league would want Davis. |
Clips would have given the Pelicans the farm and some to team him up with Kawhi. |
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Big Game James
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated. |
Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.
Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable. |
"no other bidders for Davis" might be confused with he wanted to come to LA. Almost every team in the league would want Davis. |
Clips would have given the Pelicans the farm and some to team him up with Kawhi. |
Just because teams coveted him, doesn't mean that teams were bidding for his rental services.
Like I said, no other bidders. No one was giving up any package close to what we were offering for a one year rental on Davis.
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gng930
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Game James wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated. |
Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.
Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable. |
Silly to think we could've gotten away without giving up picks. Ingram had a blood clot and Ball was hadn't played in months. Some team would have trumped that offer even with the uncertainty. Sometimes it's worth the gamble (see OKC with PG and Toronto with Kawhi). Hell, I bet a team on the cusp at the deadline would've easily trumped that offer if it significantly increased their chances of a championship.
You could maybe argue that they could've given up less picks.
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manlisten
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: |
Silly to think we could've gotten away without giving up picks. Ingram had a blood clot and Ball was hadn't played in months. Some team would have trumped that offer even with the uncertainty. Sometimes it's worth the gamble (see OKC with PG and Toronto with Kawhi). Hell, I bet a team on the cusp at the deadline would've easily trumped that offer if it significantly increased their chances of a championship.
You could maybe argue that they could've given up less picks. |
I don't know if it's revisionist, disingenuous or just straight up amnesia. Lonzo was considered a bust at that time. Hart regressed in his sophomore season and really didn't become the player he is today until his 3rd season with NOLA. Then there's Ingram...
| Quote: | "The Lakers' offer [for Anthony Davis] is really challenged when comparing to some of the other offers, especially because Brandon Ingram is coming off this blood clot," ESPN's Brian Windhorst said Friday on The Jump. "And I know that they have said that it's going to be okay, but I'm telling you that executives in the league are worried about that."
The uncertainty about Ingram could affect how the New Orleans Pelicans view the Lakers' potential trade offers for Anthony Davis. The Lakers moving up to No. 4 in the lottery improved their collection of assets that could be sent to New Orleans, but Ingram is viewed as the best prospect of the Ingram-Lonzo Ball-Kyle Kuzma trio. If the Pelicans are wary about his long-term prospects, then it's possible they look elsewhere for a deal.
The foremost concern is Ingram's health. However, his shaky status heading into 2019-20 adds another twist to an already layered negotiation process. |
He also shot 33% from 3 that year. Ingram/Ball/Hart was not some breathtaking trade package for AD who again was the undisputed best big in the league and not even in his prime yet. Also just complete bull (bleep) to act like there were no other offers. But the narrative will live on from a select few.
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LakerDYnasty72
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Game James wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | defense wrote: | | Big Game James wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | The Lakers gave up too much for AD is the dumbest take that keeps getting repeated. |
Honestly, the dumbest take was that some people actually think it is not. I don't necessarily agree with the Ohtani take. I see where that is going and to a degree I think it would have been better than what Pelinka did. What isn't being mentioned here was that there were no other bidders for Davis, yet we still found ourselves out-bidding... ourselves. Bottom line: Those drafts picks we threw in should never have been included. Giving up 3 lottery picks (Ingram, Ball and the current pick that year), plus Hart was more than enough to get Davis, since there was no other offers on the table.
Us giving away multiple future draft picks was just disastrous and avoidable. |
"no other bidders for Davis" might be confused with he wanted to come to LA. Almost every team in the league would want Davis. |
Clips would have given the Pelicans the farm and some to team him up with Kawhi. |
Just because teams coveted him, doesn't mean that teams were bidding for his rental services.
Like I said, no other bidders. No one was giving up any package close to what we were offering for a one year rental on Davis. |
Are you working in any Lakers front office capacity? |
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Megaton
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2024 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Game James wrote: | | Like I said, no other bidders. No one was giving up any package close to what we were offering for a one year rental on Davis. |
1. You have no idea. Zero clue. You’re not, nor have you ever been working in any front office in the NBA.
2. Every team wanted AD. Including teams that would have loved to have him even as a 1 year rental. Just ask the Raptors and their fans how much they loved having Kawhi even for only one year.
3. We have seen plenty of stars that get traded to one team and find themselves wanting to stay there, despite whatever media wanted to present those stars otherwise. Paul George was supposed to be a one year rental with the Thunder to really make his way to becoming a Laker. But guess what? He resigned.
The Cavs was supposed to be just a pit stop for Donovan Mitchell to make his way to the Knicks. Like, who would ever want to resign with a crappy city like Cleveland right? But guess what? He resigned.
Kyrie Irving was supposed to be Lakers bound for how many seasons? Kyrie constantly speaks up about how much he regretted leaving Cleveland the way he did. How much he wants to play with LeBron, how he would even take less money to do so again and blah, blah, blah. Guess what? He resigns with someone else again, and again, and again.
At the end of the day: money talks. And things can change in a year where a pit stop or rental is the initial thought process for some of these players. They could end up either loving that team/city/fans, they could change their minds and resign with those teams. We have see A LOT MORE of those guys then players actually going out of their way to leave and go to their “destined” team.
Especially with the context of what happened when we were supposed to get Paul George, why in the blue hell would we take a chance on not acquiring Anthony Davis when we can, and not only waste another year of LeBron, but risk AD either re-upping with the team that was supposed to be a rental (PG13 and Donovan Mitchell as the most recent example), or going somewhere else entirely?
In the end, we won a title. And the players we gave up ended up being not really that special to begin with. Certainly not even close to the level of AD even combined. Ingram is a black hole offensive player that doesn’t really contribute to winning basketball, Lonzo Ball’s injuries both killed his career and didn’t end up being any better than a role player at best, Josh Hart is ironically a better contributor to winning basketball than both of them, but is also just a role player at best that can easily (and was btw) replaced, and the draft picks didn’t end up being any meaningful whatsoever.
And finally, we got a freaking title out of it and we are still contenders now since, when before that deal, we weren’t nor were we even gonna be before that trade. So yeah, it’s insane and silly to complain about that trade when teams like the Clippers did something 10x WORSE.
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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He needs a bigger role. He shouod have the green light when he gets into the game and the team should be looking to get him shots.
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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As much as I like Max I think the backup 2 position is daltons to lose when Vando gets back. Dalton is just further along in his development. That isn’t a knock against Max. If dalton was never drafted Max would be in the top 9.
Dlo/gabe
Reaves/dalton
Rui/vando
Lebron
AD/Wood
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MJST
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| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2024 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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At this point I'd say look at giving him the majority of Max's minutes. The other team doesn't worry about Max's offense and I don't think his defense is so high end that merits going 4 on 5. Vando's yes. Christie's no.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | rmonkey wrote: | | Has anyone seen the Dalton Knecht thread? It used to be around here somewhere. |
I was happy, when this guy, who was penciled in to be a Top-10 pick by many, fell down to the Lakers..
I was worried when his Summer & (the start of) Pre-Season play was just so-so.
I am super happy at how he is performing in the Regular Season...! |
Same here, on all 3 counts. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Yeah Dalton has a grand total of 5 NBA games now and already looks a year or two ahead of Max in terms of being NBA ready. Higher ceiling, higher floor as I see it, maybe I'm not being fair to Max but I'd have to see a good game from him and that isn't happening yet.
I too am curious to see how well Vando alters the equation on defense.
As for DK, I see an unsurprising number of rookie mistakes on defense, but there are times he's not bad. I'm curious if he can develop an above-average defense to go with a triple threat offense in another year or two.
Lots to hope for, and he scored well today, in an otherwise very forgettable game. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Yeah Dalton has a grand total of 5 NBA games now and already looks a year or two ahead of Max in terms of being NBA ready. Higher ceiling, higher floor as I see it, maybe I'm not being fair to Max but I'd have to see a good game from him and that isn't happening yet.
I too am curious to see how well Vando alters the equation on defense.
As for DK, I see an unsurprising number of rookie mistakes on defense, but there are times he's not bad. I'm curious if he can develop an above-average defense to go with a triple threat offense in another year or two.
Lots to hope for, and he scored well today, in an otherwise very forgettable game. |
Well Dalton is 3 years older than Max so I'd hope so!!
Multi College Players are always usually more ready to contribute than first year college guys.
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slavavov
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | At this point I'd say look at giving him the majority of Max's minutes. The other team doesn't worry about Max's offense and I don't think his defense is so high end that merits going 4 on 5. Vando's yes. Christie's no. |
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 1:52 am Post subject: |
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I'm down with giving Dalton Max's minutes.
It's not like Max is slowing anyone down defensively and he's afraid to shoot.
I thought JJ was back to Ham's old tricks of just playing iso with AD and Bron.
You have to let the other guys shoot. Not just give them one shot, and then if they miss you let them shoot ten minutes later. Let those who can shoot take shots all the time when you are behind 20 points.
JJ talked about taking a lot of threes and it was just pound it into AD and Bron. |
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in on playing Connect more. Whether it's for Gabe or Christie... don't care they both have been bad. |
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 5:46 am Post subject: |
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DK4 needs to be featured in the offense. They keep trying to force feed this shooter narrative and use him as a spot up shooter when he’s been showing you he’s a scorer. Scorers need shots.
I think he’s proved that he can get going at any moment. Looks what he’s done when he gets minutes.
Also, I feel like the team is getting away from the offense during these two losses. The best thing about the offense is keeping everyone involved and now it feels like AD/bron centric offense again.
Kinda losing interest.
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | I'm in on playing Connect more. Whether it's for Gabe or Christie... don't care they both have been bad. |
Said it when drafted. His age allows for more run than an 18 year old. Reps are what he needs. Fail quick and learn.
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textbook
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Unleash this guy already. He’s 23. He obviously needs reps. If he played 25-30 min a night I’m convinced he would avg 20. There’s no reason to bring that along slowly, he’s older than max. |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Bron-AR-Knecht-Rui-AD… enough defense?
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levon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | Unleash this guy already. He’s 23. He obviously needs reps. If he played 25-30 min a night I’m convinced he would avg 20. There’s no reason to bring that along slowly, he’s older than max. |
You expect a rookie to average 20 on 25 minutes? As like a third-fifth scorer? We'd be leading the league in offense by a wide margin if that was true. |
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Bron-AR-Knecht-Rui-AD… enough defense? |
no, but at least we have firepower and some size |
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levon
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Bron-AR-Knecht-Rui-AD… enough defense? |
no, but at least we have firepower and some size |
And playmaking and shooting off the bench with DLo, which is awful offensively |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Bron-AR-Knecht-Rui-AD… enough defense? |
No, and asking Bron or AR to be your primary playmaker is not a good idea either.
The correct strategy would be to shore up the bench scoring, and the starting defense and count on your main scorers to be your main scorers.
As it stands JJ wants Reaves to be the third scoring option, and DLO to play point guard distributor. With our bench's inability to score however that may need to change.
You don't move DLo to the bench because then the starting lineup has no real point guard capable of playing facilitator primarily.
You start DLO
You bench Reaves
You can bring in Knecht to the starting lineup but you'd have to see if he could play the 2 and keep up with other 2s in the league currently.
The ideal would have been Christie but he's been horrible to the point teams are playing off him which allows them to overload their defense on other sides of the court because they don't give a care about Christie's shooting.
And with Vando and Wood out, the other starter isn't there.
So we have to wait till guys are healthy.
Because either AR or Rui needs to be moved to the bench to be the 6th man scorer/bench primary scorer to shore up that, and Vando needs to be starting. Christie could be that role to start at the 2 and play the KCP role but he's not been playing well at all so that means our backcourt must remain as it is till Vando comes back.
When Vando returns run it
Starters:
DLO
Reaves
Vando
LeBron
AD
Bench:
Vincent
Knecht / Christie
Rui
Wood
Hayes
That is the 10 man rotation we should be running when guys are back.
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2024 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Bron-AR-Knecht-Rui-AD… enough defense? |
You start DLO
You bench Reaves |
One caveat is that AR and Knecht’s defense have actually look good, like they can hold their own and not get hunted down. I think we’re all pretty surprised at Knecht’s D (pause). The problem with DLo is that if he doesn’t produce close to a 2nd option consistently, he gets hunted. Guess it’s either Bron running the initial offense (AR can bring the inbound up) or Vando covers DLo.
It’s either a good problem for JJ to solve or roster upgrade for Pelinka to solve.
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