Wiggins is Tmac
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:28 am    Post subject: Wiggins is Tmac

I tried to tell you guys this but a lot of you wouldnt listen.



watch it all.

The reason why he doesnt play like this is because they have multiple ballers on that team. unlike say texas when KD was on that team. it was KD and thats about it.

Embiid was out again vs this team. the first night embiid was out wiggins had a subpar game. why? because they dont run everything thru wiggins since they have embiid and other guys. the next night they realized they better run stuff thru wiggins because they dont have the fire power to win games otherwise. they still didnt win. but you see Tmac trying to take the game over and will his team to a victory. sure looked like orlando tmac to me.

this is not some fluke game. this is who wiggins is. this is where the hype came from.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject:

I think Pippen.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Pippen is a better player to have than T-Mac.
I'm interested in Wiggins draft measurements. What is his wingspan? Seemed Pippen was longer and taller. Maybe that's just my eyes playing tricks on me. But Pippen in this era could probably defend 3, 4 and 2. Didn't Phil put him on Magic in the 1991 NBA Finals?

I have a feeling Wiggins is more of a guard/perimeter defender. He's more of that Kobe type of defender in that he'll stick to you, make your life very tough to score. I can't see him become a Pippen on D because Pip was so versatile he could defend far bigger guys at PF.

Also lets see if he can be a defensive beast, once he is put in a role on O where he will have to do a lot on O, assuming he goes to one of the current bottom 3 teams, he'll be expected to carry that franchise quite a bit.

In general though, I love Wiggins as a draft pick. Lots of potential to grow. I think he'll be the best 2-way player in this draft. I don't think he'll become a superstar like T-Mac at his best because he doesn't have T-Mac's skillset, but he'll probably be a very, very good 2-way 2nd option unless he works really hard on developing more moves on O.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject:

I'm intrigued with wiggins's defensive possibilities.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject:

If Wiggins is Tmac or Pippen it is obviously a huge win. We may want him to be Jordan/Kobe, but in Tmac/Pippen you have an all-time great as well. At the very worst, Wiggins may end up being Rudy Gay.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject:

7' wingspan. Remember, Pippen gained strength over his career, was a rail as a rookie.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
I think Pippen.

pippen was a scorer like this until later on in his career. sure he had the ability but not the mentality.

pippen was also a solid point forward. wiggins could become that. but right now i dont see him as a solid facilitator. a decent passer? yes. facilitator? no
. at least not right now.

now defensively. he is pippen.

so the truth is, who the heck is tmac(offense) + pippen(defense)= no one.

not kobe. because kobe was still on another level as an assassin scorer. i wont put the kobe stamp on anyone until i can see they are either a basketball nerd like kobe, or they are ultra competitive like jordan. which most people are neither.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
If Wiggins is Tmac or Pippen it is obviously a huge win. We may want him to be Jordan/Kobe, but in Tmac/Pippen you have an all-time great as well. At the very worst, Wiggins may end up being Rudy Gay.
exactly. at worse. he's rudy. then you make sure not to pay him max money. convince him to stay and be apart of the whole.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:36 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Pippen is a better player to have than T-Mac.
I'm interested in Wiggins draft measurements. What is his wingspan? Seemed Pippen was longer and taller. Maybe that's just my eyes playing tricks on me. But Pippen in this era could probably defend 3, 4 and 2. Didn't Phil put him on Magic in the 1991 NBA Finals?

I have a feeling Wiggins is more of a guard/perimeter defender. He's more of that Kobe type of defender in that he'll stick to you, make your life very tough to score. I can't see him become a Pippen on D because Pip was so versatile he could defend far bigger guys at PF.

Also lets see if he can be a defensive beast, once he is put in a role on O where he will have to do a lot on O, assuming he goes to one of the current bottom 3 teams, he'll be expected to carry that franchise quite a bit.

In general though, I love Wiggins as a draft pick. Lots of potential to grow. I think he'll be the best 2-way player in this draft. I don't think he'll become a superstar like T-Mac at his best because he doesn't have T-Mac's skillset, but he'll probably be a very, very good 2-way 2nd option unless he works really hard on developing more moves on O.
pippen's wing span was a smidget over 7 feet. wiggins wing span is at 7 feet right now. but wiggins is officially 6'8 and not an inch shorter. pipp was 6'7 max.

i think wiggins can jump higher. but pippen could jump the exact same off of either leg. thats something most people cant do. not sure about wiggins.

and lets go back to tmac. people say "he doesnt have tmac's skillset"

what on earth are we talking about. do you not remember fresh out of high school tmac on the raptors? what skillset did he have? he caught lobs. that was about it. no joke. his cousin vince was the franchise player at the time.

tmac didnt put it all together until he got to orlando.

Code:
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Season      Age  Tm Pos   G  GS   MP  FGA  FG% 3PA  3P%  2PA  2P% FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1997-98      18 TOR  SF  64  17 18.4  6.2 .450 0.6 .341  5.6 .462 1.7 .712 1.6 2.6 4.2 1.5 0.8 1.0 1.0 1.3  7.0
1998-99      19 TOR  SF  49   2 22.6  7.9 .436 0.7 .229  7.1 .457 3.2 .726 2.4 3.2 5.7 2.3 1.1 1.3 1.6 1.9  9.3
1999-00      20 TOR  SF  79  34 31.2 12.9 .451 0.8 .277 12.1 .463 5.0 .707 2.4 4.0 6.3 3.3 1.1 1.9 2.0 2.5 15.4
2000-01      21 ORL  SG  77  77 40.1 22.4 .457 2.2 .355 20.2 .468 7.6 .733 2.5 5.0 7.5 4.6 1.5 1.5 2.6 2.1 26.8
2001-02      22 ORL  SG  76  76 38.3 20.9 .451 3.7 .364 17.1 .470 7.3 .748 2.0 5.9 7.9 5.3 1.6 1.0 2.5 1.8 25.6
2002-03      23 ORL  SG  75  74 39.4 24.2 .457 6.0 .386 18.2 .481 9.7 .793 1.6 4.9 6.5 5.5 1.7 0.8 2.6 2.1 32.1
</PRE>


THis was toronto tmac



dunks dunks and more dunks. not because it was a highlight tape. but because thats all he did back in his early days. and no he didnt put moves on people to get to the rim. if he was faster then you. he would go baseline and dunk on you. if he was faster then you or so an opening at the top. he would go down the middle and jump on your head. the rest is lobs, tip james. this is what he was known for. not a sweet jumper(that he got in orlando). not the handles that he displayed in an orlando uniform.

Wiggins skillset today is is tmac's first year in orlando. i said skillset. i didnt say desire to be the best, desire to score, etc. i said skillset. he already has what tmac had his first year in a magic jersey. a few dribble moves and a wicked spin move, with a decent jumper off the catch or off the dribble.

you guys are trying to compare him with prime tmac. and saying he cant score 50 in the nba like tmac. probably not today. but in 3 years.. yes he could. if he is willing to work that hard and have the desire to be the best SCORER.

pippen never cared to be the best scorer. thats why he wasnt. it wasnt all about jordan. it was about pipp being somewhat passive by nature as a scorer. until he got older and mike was gone. he decided to show people something. because he had a chip on his shoulder. jordan said in a few interviews that scottie was better then him. everyone laughed. but mike explained how good he was. that tells me scottie just didnt have the killer instinct that mike had on offense. now on defense scottie was trying to destroy you.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm intrigued with wiggins's defensive possibilities.
yep. and if you pay attention to that 40pt game. he wasnt just guarding his own man. he would double down to tip at the ball and get a block or 2. the only thing i say about his defense in the nba is this. its surely a shame he's coming up in the softest era of nba basketball ever. when it comes to being able to defend a perimeter guy. so we will never really see if he was pippen or even prime lockdown kobe. all due to the soft rules.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:17 am    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm intrigued with wiggins's defensive possibilities.
yep. and if you pay attention to that 40pt game. he wasnt just guarding his own man. he would double down to tip at the ball and get a block or 2. the only thing i say about his defense in the nba is this. its surely a shame he's coming up in the softest era of nba basketball ever. when it comes to being able to defend a perimeter guy. so we will never really see if he was pippen or even prime lockdown kobe. all due to the soft rules.


With embiid out he was covering a ton of ground yesterday on defense.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:28 pm    Post subject:

postandpivot wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think Pippen.

pippen was a scorer like this until later on in his career. sure he had the ability but not the mentality.

pippen was also a solid point forward. wiggins could become that. but right now i dont see him as a solid facilitator. a decent passer? yes. facilitator? no
. at least not right now.

now defensively. he is pippen.

so the truth is, who the heck is tmac(offense) + pippen(defense)= no one.

not kobe. because kobe was still on another level as an assassin scorer. i wont put the kobe stamp on anyone until i can see they are either a basketball nerd like kobe, or they are ultra competitive like jordan. which most people are neither.


With all due respect, that's quite a statement.

If it turns out to be right, I sure as hell hope he's a Laker next season.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject:

jwbrown77 wrote:
postandpivot wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I think Pippen.

pippen was a scorer like this until later on in his career. sure he had the ability but not the mentality.

pippen was also a solid point forward. wiggins could become that. but right now i dont see him as a solid facilitator. a decent passer? yes. facilitator? no
. at least not right now.

now defensively. he is pippen.

so the truth is, who the heck is tmac(offense) + pippen(defense)= no one.

not kobe. because kobe was still on another level as an assassin scorer. i wont put the kobe stamp on anyone until i can see they are either a basketball nerd like kobe, or they are ultra competitive like jordan. which most people are neither.


With all due respect, that's quite a statement.

If it turns out to be right, I sure as hell hope he's a Laker next season.
he is a very very good on ball defender. and a very good help defender. now again we will never get to see if he truly is scottie because of the nba soft rules. so i just threw that out there so we can have something to compare him to.

most scorers dont play defense. kobe did. but no one is kobe but jordan. jordan did. but no one is mike but kobe. tmac didnt play defense(but he could when he wanted to).

if you want to throw a name around we know. he could be paul george. anyone mad at getting paul george? i know i'm not.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:23 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
do you not remember fresh out of high school tmac on the raptors? what skillset did he have?


Point guard ball-handling, elite athleticism, and a point guard's facilitating mindset with the aggression to attack the basket.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:39 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for the info on Wiggins' wingspan, guys.

As I've said all along, I feel Wiggins is the best pick in this draft. Most potential to grow as a players skill wise, and has the most athleticism.

The fact that Mike thinks he has Pippen upside - picking him is just a big time no brainer for me.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
do you not remember fresh out of high school tmac on the raptors? what skillset did he have?


Point guard ball-handling, elite athleticism, and a point guard's facilitating mindset with the aggression to attack the basket.

i wouldnt go that far calling it point guard ball handlling for a young tmac.

here's his old scouting report

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1997_draft/scout/sg.html
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Thanks for the info on Wiggins' wingspan, guys.

As I've said all along, I feel Wiggins is the best pick in this draft. Most potential to grow as a players skill wise, and has the most athleticism.

The fact that Mike thinks he has Pippen upside - picking him is just a big time no brainer for me.
but, if exum is as intelligent as i think he is. then you have to wonder how serious is he about being the best player in the nba? if he's dead serious. exum could whined up being kobe. while wiggins becomes tmac. both great players in their prime. but one of them was still above the other due to his hoop intellect as well as his desire to be the best to ever lace em up.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:39 pm    Post subject:

IMO stretch to think Exum can be Kobe. I don't think he will even be as good as prime Wade, as Wade had more explosion on his drives.

But I do like the Penny comparisons, far more than Kobe. I think that could be the ceiling.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
IMO stretch to think Exum can be Kobe. I don't think he will even be as good as prime Wade, as Wade had more explosion on his drives.

But I do like the Penny comparisons, far more than Kobe. I think that could be the ceiling.
i didnt say kobe in how he plays. i'm talking about having kobe's mentality. the only person that has ever had that ridiculous mindset is jordan.

exum will never be kobe even with kobe's mindset and work ethic because exum is...exum. he's not a superscorer assassin. he's a tall point that can score. on his best day he would be a tall point that can score = penny hardaway. penny was a superstar pre knees.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject:

I'd be happy if the Lakers got either of them @ this point.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:32 am    Post subject:

West24Bryant wrote:
I'd be happy if the Lakers got either of them @ this point.


I doubt we get Exum or Wiggins at this point with meaningless wins we should be happy with getting a Randle or Smart.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject:

PROPHET wrote:
West24Bryant wrote:
I'd be happy if the Lakers got either of them @ this point.


I doubt we get Exum or Wiggins at this point with meaningless wins we should be happy with getting a Randle or Smart.


This - I don't like the way we've been playing, pulling out wins we shouldn't. In the meantime, other teams are playing the game the right way and losing, lol.

I'm worried about drafting around 6, which is where we're at. This horrible season has to mean something. I want Wiggins personally, maybe Embiid. Hope we at least end the season last in the west, which will probably be 4th worst.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:55 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
PROPHET wrote:
West24Bryant wrote:
I'd be happy if the Lakers got either of them @ this point.


I doubt we get Exum or Wiggins at this point with meaningless wins we should be happy with getting a Randle or Smart.


This - I don't like the way we've been playing, pulling out wins we shouldn't. In the meantime, other teams are playing the game the right way and losing, lol.

I'm worried about drafting around 6, which is where we're at. This horrible season has to mean something. I want Wiggins personally, maybe Embiid. Hope we at least end the season last in the west, which will probably be 4th worst.


Well, aside from the "lottery" factor, we are also within the 9th pick as well. HUGE difference from Wiggins, Parker, Exum to Hood/Vonleh.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject:

and what do we have here? another tracy wiggins , andrew mcgrady game. i tried to tell you guys this. the only reason he wasnt going nuts like this is because he has two many good teammates. if he only had one. that would be one thing. but he has 2 other solid teammates. this means he wont have most of the plays ran/designed for him to score.

you guys thought the guy was passive. nope.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject:

The guy was passive. Really.

Bryant took a step back surrounded by teammates, but even then, he stood out. Why does Embiid stand out all season and not Wiggins? Embiid doesn't hold back.
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