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MJST
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 Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell  |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine.
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miggz23
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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The thread that keeps on giving...
Almost 3k pages. |
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zambia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | What am I ignoring? Are you saying DLO is or isnt a solid defender? |
I said that DLO just needed to be solid to above average, and he was solid.
Using reading comprehension if I said "solid to above average" which am I ranking higher?
Because you don't understand or are just playing ignorant. I'm saying he needed to be solid enough to above average and he was the former.
If you think solid = elite, that is your perspective. However because it's subjective I intentionally put solid below above average for a reason so you know where I was placing it. But you missed it every single time, as expected. |
Im so confused. I literally wrote solid? |
Yeah, but you don't seem to grasp where I considered solid. I considered solid beneath above average and more or less doing enough, and being an improvement over last season. Do you understand that at minimum?
I said solid to above average for that very reason and said he played the former and you missed it every single time. That means he didn't play above average defense but it was solid enough. Got it now? |
DLO is not a solid defender. Reaves is a better defender than DLO. |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
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Kblo247!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
Why the hell would LeBron let him take that much control? He’s a guy who has a horrid playoff history
35.9
33.3
42.6
38.4
Those are his averages from the field in the playoffs
32.4 on 7 attempts
38.7 on 5 attempts
31.8 on 5 attempts
32.7 on 9 attempts
That’s his three point shooting averages in the playoffs, so he got the volume, he just sucked
84.6
75.0
76.9
50.0
Those are his his free throw averages
44.6
45.5
51.6
48.1
Those are his true shooting numbers. For reference Fisher from 2000 to 2013 never dipped below 50 in the playoffs. That’s a playoff player you trust. |
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Japago
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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DLo being an ellite play-maker is a new homer take I haven't heard before.
Having a good AST-to-TO really don't mean much in a lesser role.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/assist-to-turnover-ratio
Tyus Jones? Sam Merrill? Jordan McLaughlin?
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Last edited by Japago on Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hard_Butter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the rub....
Forget all the numbers and on-court analysis....there has to be another reason why he's been bounced around the league and we've now come to a point where no one wants him. People can't wait to get rid of him and nobody wants him. We don't want him X2 (lol) despite him just putting up some career numbers. This goes beyond his blase defense and being perpetually exposed in the playoffs for his non-athleticism. There's something else there. And I simply think it's because he's just not all that well-liked around the league. People don't like him. In the locker room especially. Who tf wants to work with someone they don't like? This is a personality conflict above all for whatever his reason.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | Here's the rub....
Forget all the numbers and on-court analysis....there has to be another reason why he's been bounced around the league and we've now come to a point where no one wants him. People can't wait to get rid of him and nobody wants him. We don't want him X2 (lol) despite him just putting up some career numbers. This goes beyond his blase defense and being perpetually exposed in the playoffs for his non-athleticism. There's something else there. And I simply think it's because he's just not all that well-liked around the league. People don't like him. In the locker room especially. Who tf wants to work with someone they don't like? This is a personality conflict above all for whatever his reason. |
This could be true. But thankfully he picked up his option and will be an expiring this season, while also helping us win games. He will have financial value to some other team this February. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Hard_Butter wrote: | Here's the rub....
Forget all the numbers and on-court analysis....there has to be another reason why he's been bounced around the league and we've |
Okay lets actually put context to "bounce around the league".
The Lakers traded him for a stupid reason, one of the many stupid reasons Magic Johnson made and he became an All-Star carrying the Nets on his back to the Playoffs. So let's acknowledge that first. You can also acknowledge that had the regime kept both DLO and Randle that by the time it came to trade for AD we'd have kept a lot more of the youngsters around that we drafted, be it DLO, or Lonzo, or Randle, or Hart, or Ingram. More of them would have been with us outside of Kuzma.
Secondly, the Nets got rid of him TO GET KEVIN DURANT. This cannot be understated. Anyone would have done the same thing in the Nets position and they felt that when KD and Kyrie played together that they'd have a Championship chance so they took it. Ask the Brooklyn Nets fans how they feel about that trade now and you'll find the majority of them miss the upstart team Atkinson was building before it was all taken from underneath him.
Then in the Warriors, DLO was meant to essentially help the backcourt in Klay Thompson's absence and be paired with Steph and with Klay who they felt could come back at the 3. But after everyone but DLO and Draymond got injured and they decided to get Andrew Wiggins who they felt they could unlock the potential of at the 3, and they felt if they got a healthy Steph and Klay back, that having a defensive 3 and D and offensive upside in Wiggins would help their team more, than asking Klay to come back and be a 3 and D defender. We see all the drama with Podz from this season that maybe that was the best call. They also believed that Jordan Poole had upside they could reach and it would have been redundant so chose to take care of a weakness they'd have going forward. It was the right call. Even if Wiggins had just one year playing at that level, it was the one year that mattered, same goes for Poole.
So DLO got traded for
1) Magic's stupidity
2) Kevin Durant
3) Andrew Wiggins
And all those moves made sense for what the team wante to do. Spencer Dinwiddie "bounces around the league" far more than DLO does, and he doesn't get traded for Superstars, or borderline all-stars.
Then we got a gift from Minnesota and got DLO back. Keep in mind the Lakers were already trying to angle to get DLo from the Brooklyn Nets, and Magic Johnson also voiced wanting to make that move after leaving the Lakers FO. But the Warriors swept in and got DLO in the Sign and Trade for Durant after KD made it apparent he wasn't going back to Golden State.
So let's stop acting like DLO just gets bounced around cause "nobody wants him". It was KD or DLO, and no one wouldn't pick KD 10 out of 10 times there. And it was for 3 and D fit on the Warriors as they didn't want issue with Klay nor to depend on him to come back as a 3. Given all thats happened with Poole, and Podz and Klay and all of that, it was probably for the best. Warriors got a Championship and then lost Poole and Klay within 3 seasons.
And on the other side of that? We're the ones that put the Warriors out of the Playoffs with the guy they traded along with LeBron and AD, effectively ending their run and putting them in the position they're in right now.
All we need to do on the other end of that, is win a Championship, and I believe we can.
The Warriors got worse
The Nuggets got worse
The Mavs got arguably better depending on how much you believe Klay has in the tank.
The Timberwolves get better by getting wiser.
The Lakers remained more or less the same team that went to the WCF but have hopefully upgraded their Coaching position. Time will tell.
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Hard_Butter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Hard_Butter wrote: | Here's the rub....
Forget all the numbers and on-court analysis....there has to be another reason why he's been bounced around the league and we've |
Okay lets actually put context to "bounce around the league".
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5 teams in 6 years is quite literally being bounced around the league. And he just entered his prime. lol
I do admire your conviction tho, M....despite the extreme homerism.
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Japago
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I can see defending DLo's value around the league up until MIN got rid of him.
They gave him away for very little.
And since then, even with his good regular seasons, he's had no value. He's had 2 chances to get a long term deal as a potential FA and nobody bit. The Rockets were freely giving away money and chose to sign FVV at $40 per seasons instead of giving DLo less than half of that. The Magic showed no interest this off-season.
The Lakers haven't been able to trade him last trade deadline and this off-season.
One big difference is that "upside" was part of his value at those times. He's now too old for that.
And, people need to give up on this team being title contenders as is. I even said it at the time of that WCF, that team wasn't a title contender. They went through a severely handicapped team and an old team on it's last legs coming off a grueling 7 game series.
That WCF and a nice little run just to make the play-ins doesn't make for a contender.
The Nuggets showed the Lakers their standing with the rest of the league. The teams that looked better than the Nuggets in the postseason would've beaten the Lakers too.
When they went back to DLo/AR/Rui, they were 23rd in defensive efficiency. NO team, no matter how good they are on offense(and I don't think the Lakers are the best), is a title contender with defense like that. And, Vando and Gabe aren't going to turn that around, especially when they'll create problems on offense that'll just replace the problems on defense. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2024 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | I can see defending DLo's value around the league up until MIN got rid of him.
They gave him away for very little.
And since then, even with his good regular seasons, he's had no value. He's had 2 chances to get a long term deal as a potential FA and nobody bit. The Rockets were freely giving away money and chose to sign FVV at $40 per seasons instead of giving DLo less than half of that. The Magic showed no interest this off-season.
The Lakers haven't been able to trade him last trade deadline and this off-season.
One big difference is that "upside" was part of his value at those times. He's now too old for that.
And, people need to give up on this team being title contenders as is. I even said it at the time of that WCF, that team wasn't a title contender. They went through a severely handicapped team and an old team on it's last legs coming off a grueling 7 game series.
That WCF and a nice little run just to make the play-ins doesn't make for a contender.
The Nuggets showed the Lakers their standing with the rest of the league. The teams that looked better than the Nuggets in the postseason would've beaten the Lakers too.
When they went back to DLo/AR/Rui, they were 23rd in defensive efficiency. NO team, no matter how good they are on offense(and I don't think the Lakers are the best), is a title contender with defense like that. And, Vando and Gabe aren't going to turn that around, especially when they'll create problems on offense that'll just replace the problems on defense. |
If value was only dictated by the market than "no one" would want Tyus Jones either.
Sometimes it's not the be all and end all. Look at the players whose careers the Lakers have basically saved by getting them cheap on the market because the market either didn't determine the player's value or the player was severely underrated.
No one is going to argue that Tyus Jones shouldn't be making TONS more than he's making and just because nobody wanted to pay him(or couldn't due to all the new financial rules and limitations), doesn't determine his value as a player. Tyus Jones for 2 million is worth more than Gabe Vincent at 11 million and it isn't even close. If anything the numbers on those contracts should be reversed.
Like I said, if the market continues to not want to pay DLO while he puts up 18/6 for us on 41% from three on 7 a game I see that as a benefit for us more than anything else. Because essentially every other team is paying 25-35 Million+ for that and less than that.
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PICKnPOP
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Can’t wait till we win a title with Dlo in the starting lineup. This kid has been disrespected since the day he got drafted. It’s kind of sad.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| PICKnPOP wrote: | | Can’t wait till we win a title with Dlo in the starting lineup. This kid has been disrespected since the day he got drafted. It’s kind of sad. |
If we avoid Denver I guess anything is possible.
Considering his playoff averages throughout his career. It would be a huge turn around for him.
People talk about how Ham misused him. But under Ham, DLO actually shot over 40% from the field in the playoffs once. Which is an alltime high for him.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | DLO is elite playmaker, elite shooter, solid defender. Yet no one wants to offer him a contract for a modest 19 million/y and the Lakers cant trade him.
Woops forgot to add he actually thrives in the playoffs.
Hmm something doesnt add up. |
Yeah! It's kind of sad the extreme takes on this. Yeah, he's making 19M which is a decent contract for what he brings, yet Lakers have a hard time moving him. In free agency last summer no one offered him more than the Lakers. Again this summer while many others got the bag his agent told him to pick up the player option.
What his value around the league is - IMO - of a good shooter, good playmaker that has some holes in his game and character. . He's a good player on offense, no disputing that. As I said, he can be our team's 3rd option, if we put a solid athletic 2-way guys next to AD, Bron and DLO.
I may be wrong but I even recall a lineup of AD, Bron, Vanderbilt, Beasley, DLO post-Westbrook trade. Even that lineup to me had a bit more floor balance. There was some elite defensive potential, and you had some role players that did 1 thing at an elite level (Beasley even was was one of the highest volume 3 point shooters in the league, Vanderbilt has some elite defensive skill).
In a way Ham had it right with looking at the potential of a Reddish/Prince combo next to AD/Bron/DLO. That lineup won the IST. The problem is that Reddish/Prince just weren't good enough. We can get away with the holes in DLO's game if he's utilised as a 3rd option to brings some playmaking/setting the table to the team. In order to have that, we just haven't made the necessary moves. I put this on Pelinka. |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
Why the hell would LeBron let him take that much control? He’s a guy who has a horrid playoff history
35.9
33.3
42.6
38.4
Those are his averages from the field in the playoffs
32.4 on 7 attempts
38.7 on 5 attempts
31.8 on 5 attempts
32.7 on 9 attempts
That’s his three point shooting averages in the playoffs, so he got the volume, he just sucked
84.6
75.0
76.9
50.0
Those are his his free throw averages
44.6
45.5
51.6
48.1
Those are his true shooting numbers. For reference Fisher from 2000 to 2013 never dipped below 50 in the playoffs. That’s a playoff player you trust. |
Dont just look at the numbers. Bron had great numbers in Game 2.....anybody who watched that game knows what is the biggest culprit for the Lakers falling apart that game. It was Bron's casually walking the ball up the court every possession that threw the Lakers off rhythm and alloiwed the Nuggets to walk them down. Now at the time, I dont blame Bron because the strategy looks terrible only in hindsight....regardless results are what matters. D'Lo on the whole had a decent series vs Denver.....at least to the point he looked playable and could be a net positive which is a huge relief. As for yielding control to an inferior player especially in the playoffs.....while this is true, the Lakers have looked their best when D'Lo is running the point. With the way we are, better hope D'Lo has effective games that raise our ceiling so that we have a chance to win vs a lower floor albeit safer option of Bron at the helm. Also, Id rather have the unstable higher upside D'Lo than the stable lower upside higher floor Fisher for these not particularly talent-rich Lakers. |
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:13 am Post subject: |
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[quote="wolfpaclaker"] | Ksig wrote: |
What his value around the league is - IMO - of a good shooter, good playmaker that has some holes in his game and character. . He's a good player on offense, no disputing that. As I said, he can be our team's 3rd option, if we put a solid athletic 2-way guys next to AD, Bron and DLO.
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This is 100% true to me. For him to thrive, you need 2 other good shooters that can defend, have some length and athleticism. Russell/Reaves are a problem long term. I think we can win lots of games with those 2 as starters, but not a contender.
The other issue is if we were to get 2 defender/shooter/athletes, we might actually be better off with Reaves starting, because Reaves is more of an all around player than Russell. Maybe start Russell but go to Reaves quickly if he is not clicking. |
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1995Lakers
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Posts: 4892
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 8:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="defense"] | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Ksig wrote: |
What his value around the league is - IMO - of a good shooter, good playmaker that has some holes in his game and character. . He's a good player on offense, no disputing that. As I said, he can be our team's 3rd option, if we put a solid athletic 2-way guys next to AD, Bron and DLO.
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This is 100% true to me. For him to thrive, you need 2 other good shooters that can defend, have some length and athleticism. Russell/Reaves are a problem long term. I think we can win lots of games with those 2 as starters, but not a contender.
The other issue is if we were to get 2 defender/shooter/athletes, we might actually be better off with Reaves starting, because Reaves is more of an all around player than Russell. Maybe start Russell but go to Reaves quickly if he is not clicking. |
Unlike Russell, who I have zero hopes of being considered a good defender, I do have some hope for Reaves. If he could pull it off, it would be a godsend. |
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| ^ Reaves was actually fine to good as a defender in the last 20 or so games and into the playoffs last season. He started pretty poor, but then started showing the flashes he'd shown his first two seasons. I don't think he's as much of a negative as Russell because he can at least cut off drives once in a while. Russell's only move is the occasional timely swipe down. |
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manlisten
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Posts: 3570
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Reaves at least gives effort even tho he's usually in over his head. Russell has long stretches where he clearly doesn't even give a damn. He just wants you to remember that he said he wants to play like Derrick White and let that do the work for him.
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Hanging from Rafters
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="1995Lakers"] | defense wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Ksig wrote: |
What his value around the league is - IMO - of a good shooter, good playmaker that has some holes in his game and character. . He's a good player on offense, no disputing that. As I said, he can be our team's 3rd option, if we put a solid athletic 2-way guys next to AD, Bron and DLO.
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This is 100% true to me. For him to thrive, you need 2 other good shooters that can defend, have some length and athleticism. Russell/Reaves are a problem long term. I think we can win lots of games with those 2 as starters, but not a contender.
The other issue is if we were to get 2 defender/shooter/athletes, we might actually be better off with Reaves starting, because Reaves is more of an all around player than Russell. Maybe start Russell but go to Reaves quickly if he is not clicking. |
Unlike Russell, who I have zero hopes of being considered a good defender, I do have some hope for Reaves. If he could pull it off, it would be a godsend. |
In addition to hoping he improves defensively, I also hope he improves his 3pt%, 3pt volume, and playmaking.
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
Why the hell would LeBron let him take that much control? He’s a guy who has a horrid playoff history
35.9
33.3
42.6
38.4
Those are his averages from the field in the playoffs
32.4 on 7 attempts
38.7 on 5 attempts
31.8 on 5 attempts
32.7 on 9 attempts
That’s his three point shooting averages in the playoffs, so he got the volume, he just sucked
84.6
75.0
76.9
50.0
Those are his his free throw averages
44.6
45.5
51.6
48.1
Those are his true shooting numbers. For reference Fisher from 2000 to 2013 never dipped below 50 in the playoffs. That’s a playoff player you trust. |
Dont just look at the numbers. Bron had great numbers in Game 2.....anybody who watched that game knows what is the biggest culprit for the Lakers falling apart that game. It was Bron's casually walking the ball up the court every possession that threw the Lakers off rhythm and alloiwed the Nuggets to walk them down. Now at the time, I dont blame Bron because the strategy looks terrible only in hindsight....regardless results are what matters. D'Lo on the whole had a decent series vs Denver.....at least to the point he looked playable and could be a net positive which is a huge relief. As for yielding control to an inferior player especially in the playoffs.....while this is true, the Lakers have looked their best when D'Lo is running the point. With the way we are, better hope D'Lo has effective games that raise our ceiling so that we have a chance to win vs a lower floor albeit safer option of Bron at the helm. Also, Id rather have the unstable higher upside D'Lo than the stable lower upside higher floor Fisher for these not particularly talent-rich Lakers. |
In the playoffs I rather have the mf that would hit the shot especially when he took 9 threes a game for the series. At the end of the day he chucked more threes in the series than the season and he did nothing with them … and it’s hard as hell to not look at him and say stfu if you’re Bron and all that ice in my veins, I’m not able to be broken, I’m glad Denis ain’t here no more talk gets you a 0 game and 31% on 9 attempts a night from three. It’s hard to take his ass serious
Give me the mf who shot 75% vs the spurs, the one who went in Boston vs 4 hall of famers and took over a fourth, the one who in the 09 run was the only Laker besides Kobe to have higher averages on the road. For the season sure, but when it’s time to lock in, I trust Fisher a hell of a lot more on a pass from Bron and AD in a hostile environment than I do Russell to hit a shot or make a free throw. Hell I trust fisher to get a stop and get his ass down there and take a charge on Joker or Gordon over letting them push him around and not even try to box out.
Last edited by Kblo247! on Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 27551
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
Why the hell would LeBron let him take that much control? He’s a guy who has a horrid playoff history
35.9
33.3
42.6
38.4
Those are his averages from the field in the playoffs
32.4 on 7 attempts
38.7 on 5 attempts
31.8 on 5 attempts
32.7 on 9 attempts
That’s his three point shooting averages in the playoffs, so he got the volume, he just sucked
84.6
75.0
76.9
50.0
Those are his his free throw averages
44.6
45.5
51.6
48.1
Those are his true shooting numbers. For reference Fisher from 2000 to 2013 never dipped below 50 in the playoffs. That’s a playoff player you trust. |
Dont just look at the numbers. Bron had great numbers in Game 2.....anybody who watched that game knows what is the biggest culprit for the Lakers falling apart that game. It was Bron's casually walking the ball up the court every possession that threw the Lakers off rhythm and alloiwed the Nuggets to walk them down. Now at the time, I dont blame Bron because the strategy looks terrible only in hindsight....regardless results are what matters. D'Lo on the whole had a decent series vs Denver.....at least to the point he looked playable and could be a net positive which is a huge relief. As for yielding control to an inferior player especially in the playoffs.....while this is true, the Lakers have looked their best when D'Lo is running the point. With the way we are, better hope D'Lo has effective games that raise our ceiling so that we have a chance to win vs a lower floor albeit safer option of Bron at the helm. Also, Id rather have the unstable higher upside D'Lo than the stable lower upside higher floor Fisher for these not particularly talent-rich Lakers. |
In the playoffs I rather have the mf that would hit the shot especially when he took 9 threes a game for the series. At the end of the day he chucked more threes in the series than the season and he did nothing with them … and it’s hard as hell to not look at him and say stfu if you’re Bron and all that ice in my veins, I’m not able to be broken, I’m glad Denis ain’t here no more talk gets you a 0 game and 31% on 9 attempts a night from three. It’s hard to take his ass serious
Give me the mf who shot 75% vs the spurs, the one who went in Boston vs 4 hall of famers and took over a fourth, the one who in the 09 run was the |
Then you'd need a time machine.
If LeBron was still that guy the Lakers would have won the last two Championships. But he isn't. At the end of Game 2, I'd rather the guy who was on fire from three and was lighting the Nuggets up all night take that last three instead of LeBron. Regardless of what LeBron did 10 years ago, you play to the strength of the night, and on that night it was DLO. I'd rather live with him making or missing that final 3 because it had been his night up and to that point.
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lakersfever714
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12804
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
Steph carries over his performance from the regular season to the playoffs. DLo doesn't. When Bron and AD were this healthy and dominating, we won the championship with KCP. With DLo, we've only managed a WCF and first round exit with a healthy Bron and AD.
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | Because when you describe someone as an elite shooter, elite playmaker, and AVERAGE (solid) on defense you get Steph Curry. Not D'Angelo Russell |
And to me, Curry's a better defender than he gets credit for being.
Anyway, Rafters understood exactly what I meant.
Yes DLO was an elite shooter for us, to argue otherwise is silly. 41.5% on over 7 threes a game is elite.
Yes DLO was an elite playmaker for us, the games where he was the primary point guard and neither LeBron or AD was there proved that too as well as the way he found guys down the stretch of games when the ball was in his hands. He was high assist low turnover while also having to share duties with LeBron and Reaves, and when LeBron wasn't there and he carried the offense, he proved in their absence as well.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
If you think that makes him basically Steph, then go ahead. It doesn't. But go ahead and think that. That's your prerogative. Not mine. |
I will say this about D'Lo. There is another level to his game that he can reach. Its there waiting to be pulled out - around 21-22 PPG on similar efficiency numbers while throwing 6-7 APG at an excellent Assists/Turnover ratio. Its 1. Does D'Lo want to reach that level on the Lakers and 2. Will Bron let D'Lo take that much control. I said this last year and I will say it again this year. The more D'Lo does in putting up excellent numbers, the more confident he will be entering the playoffs and the ONLY chance we have of winning the chip. |
Why the hell would LeBron let him take that much control? He’s a guy who has a horrid playoff history
35.9
33.3
42.6
38.4
Those are his averages from the field in the playoffs
32.4 on 7 attempts
38.7 on 5 attempts
31.8 on 5 attempts
32.7 on 9 attempts
That’s his three point shooting averages in the playoffs, so he got the volume, he just sucked
84.6
75.0
76.9
50.0
Those are his his free throw averages
44.6
45.5
51.6
48.1
Those are his true shooting numbers. For reference Fisher from 2000 to 2013 never dipped below 50 in the playoffs. That’s a playoff player you trust. |
Dont just look at the numbers. Bron had great numbers in Game 2.....anybody who watched that game knows what is the biggest culprit for the Lakers falling apart that game. It was Bron's casually walking the ball up the court every possession that threw the Lakers off rhythm and alloiwed the Nuggets to walk them down. Now at the time, I dont blame Bron because the strategy looks terrible only in hindsight....regardless results are what matters. D'Lo on the whole had a decent series vs Denver.....at least to the point he looked playable and could be a net positive which is a huge relief. As for yielding control to an inferior player especially in the playoffs.....while this is true, the Lakers have looked their best when D'Lo is running the point. With the way we are, better hope D'Lo has effective games that raise our ceiling so that we have a chance to win vs a lower floor albeit safer option of Bron at the helm. Also, Id rather have the unstable higher upside D'Lo than the stable lower upside higher floor Fisher for these not particularly talent-rich Lakers. |
In the playoffs I rather have the mf that would hit the shot especially when he took 9 threes a game for the series. At the end of the day he chucked more threes in the series than the season and he did nothing with them … and it’s hard as hell to not look at him and say stfu if you’re Bron and all that ice in my veins, I’m not able to be broken, I’m glad Denis ain’t here no more talk gets you a 0 game and 31% on 9 attempts a night from three. It’s hard to take his ass serious
Give me the mf who shot 75% vs the spurs, the one who went in Boston vs 4 hall of famers and took over a fourth, the one who in the 09 run was the |
Then you'd need a time machine.
If LeBron was still that guy the Lakers would have won the last two Championships. But he isn't. At the end of Game 2, I'd rather the guy who was on fire from three and was lighting the Nuggets up all night take that last three instead of LeBron. Regardless of what LeBron did 10 years ago, you play to the strength of the night, and on that night it was DLO. I'd rather live with him making or missing that final 3 because it had been his night up and to that point. |
And for that series he was trash. Don’t give me on that night. For his playoff career he is trash. He is an 18 point guy that dropped to a 14 point guy. He’s a high assist to turnover ratio guy who became a 2 to 1 guy. He’s a high volume three point maker who took more than he did on the season and didn’t hit a third of him. He’s a guy who shot center numbers from the free throw line. He was trash, which is his playoff career but the numbers for his entire life.
Dlos playoff highlight reel is talking a bunch of (bleep) about being mentally tough and then having a 0 game and eating a pop tart over going in the huddle
Until Dlo can bring his season averages to the playoffs he’s trash and you. Ant rely on or win with him when it counts
AD went 7 mins with 1 touch for a quarter. Lebron went 4 mins without a shot and only touched the ball 3x in a that stretch in a Denver third quarter because Dlo, Reaves, and Rui went into a chuck show. While yes they are all more naturally talented, eh I rather have a mf who knows their role is to not take shots when AD is hot. Their role is feed him the damn ball. Their role is defend for Bron, dive on the floor, get the ball across half court, space, take charges, and box out and gang rebound. Part of the failure of Dlo and Rui that series vs Denver is they think they are offensive talents when they need to play a (bleep) role and do little (bleep) while never interrupting the hot hand |
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