Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we employ deception. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not better playmakers and you know that we know that you know better, but you insinuated it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5 then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we make stuff up. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not and you know that we know that you know better, but you said it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I don't believe Schroder/Dinwiddie are elite play-makers. DLo isn't one either.
I'm just saying that using AST/TO to say DLo is an elite play-maker is dumb because that stat is heavily influenced by opportunities.
If you're using that logic, just look at the kind of players that are "elite" playmakers based on the list I'm provided.
Look at all the mediocre players on that list.
There is just some ridiculous stuff being said to defend DLo. He also didn't have only 1 bad game in the playoffs.
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5 then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we make stuff up. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not and you know that we know that you know better, but you said it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I don't believe Schroder/Dinwiddie are elite play-makers. DLo isn't one either.
I'm just saying that using AST/TO to say DLo is an elite play-maker is dumb because that stat is heavily influenced by opportunities.
If you're using that logic, just look at the kind of players that are "elite" playmakers based on the list I'm provided.
Look at all the mediocre players on that list.
There is just some ridiculous stuff being said to defend DLo. He also didn't have only 1 bad game in the playoffs.
That take is exactly what I’m talking about. No one uses assist/turnover ratio by itself to determine if someone is an elite playmaker, but you already know that.
Using that information exclusively…and pretending it is the basis that others use it…is the deception.
Then you double down on the deception getting off topic by saying 1 bad game in the playoffs. If you can, correct it going forward. If you can’t…well…I understand.
Go Lakers!!! _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5 then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we make stuff up. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not and you know that we know that you know better, but you said it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I don't believe Schroder/Dinwiddie are elite play-makers. DLo isn't one either.
I'm just saying that using AST/TO to say DLo is an elite play-maker is dumb because that stat is heavily influenced by opportunities.
If you're using that logic, just look at the kind of players that are "elite" playmakers based on the list I'm provided.
Look at all the mediocre players on that list.
There is just some ridiculous stuff being said to defend DLo. He also didn't have only 1 bad game in the playoffs.
That take is exactly what I’m talking about. No one uses assist/turnover ratio by itself to determine if someone is an elite playmaker, but you already know that.
Using that information exclusively…and pretending it is the basis that others use it…is the deception.
Then you double down on the deception getting off topic by saying 1 bad game in the playoffs. Nobody said that and you know it. If you can, correct it going forward. If you can’t…well…I understand.
MJST has said or at least implied both of those things.
I feel strongly that those things are untrue, so I'm putting into perspective how untrue those things are.
Logically, I'm going to use the biggest, most easily understandable reasons to disprove those claims.
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5 then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we make stuff up. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not and you know that we know that you know better, but you said it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I don't believe Schroder/Dinwiddie are elite play-makers. DLo isn't one either.
I'm just saying that using AST/TO to say DLo is an elite play-maker is dumb because that stat is heavily influenced by opportunities.
If you're using that logic, just look at the kind of players that are "elite" playmakers based on the list I'm provided.
Look at all the mediocre players on that list.
There is just some ridiculous stuff being said to defend DLo. He also didn't have only 1 bad game in the playoffs.
That take is exactly what I’m talking about. No one uses assist/turnover ratio by itself to determine if someone is an elite playmaker, but you already know that.
Using that information exclusively…and pretending it is the basis that others use it…is the deception.
Then you double down on the deception getting off topic by saying 1 bad game in the playoffs. Nobody said that and you know it. If you can, correct it going forward. If you can’t…well…I understand.
MJST has said or at least implied both of those things.
I feel strongly that those things are untrue, so I'm putting into perspective how untrue those things are.
Logically, I'm going to use the biggest, most easily understandable reasons to disprove those claims.
It’s cool man, we’re ultimately on the same team!
Go Lakers!!! _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5 then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we make stuff up. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not and you know that we know that you know better, but you said it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I don't believe Schroder/Dinwiddie are elite play-makers. DLo isn't one either.
I'm just saying that using AST/TO to say DLo is an elite play-maker is dumb because that stat is heavily influenced by opportunities.
If you're using that logic, just look at the kind of players that are "elite" playmakers based on the list I'm provided.
Look at all the mediocre players on that list.
There is just some ridiculous stuff being said to defend DLo. He also didn't have only 1 bad game in the playoffs.
That take is exactly what I’m talking about. No one uses assist/turnover ratio by itself to determine if someone is an elite playmaker, but you already know that.
Using that information exclusively…and pretending it is the basis that others use it…is the deception.
Then you double down on the deception getting off topic by saying 1 bad game in the playoffs. If you can, correct it going forward. If you can’t…well…I understand.
And yes he was a solid/good enough/average defender.
This is straight up a bannable statement. Now I'm thinking you're just high-effort trolling. The other stuff you've posted is defensible if you really squint, but this is truly next level. You have nothing to back this up. Not video, not stories, not stats. You must've had a really formative experience at a Brooklyn game in 2019 or something.
https://www.nbarapm.com/?3y
Go ahead and look up DLo's D-RAPM here. Look at his current day one. Look at his 3 year one from 2020-2023, which is a large enough sample to stabilize RAPM. Compare that to an actual good enough/average defender in Reaves. DRTG, D-EPM, etc, none of these paint DLo as any of those adjectives you blurted out. You're just saying stuff these days.
Incoming highly cherry-picked stat or a highlight reel of DLo swiping at balls for a 10 game stretch.
Steph Curry is a great example. DLo is a worse defender than 37 year old Steph Curry.
What his value around the league is - IMO - of a good shooter, good playmaker that has some holes in his game and character. . He's a good player on offense, no disputing that. As I said, he can be our team's 3rd option, if we put a solid athletic 2-way guys next to AD, Bron and DLO.
This is 100% true to me. For him to thrive, you need 2 other good shooters that can defend, have some length and athleticism. Russell/Reaves are a problem long term. I think we can win lots of games with those 2 as starters, but not a contender.
The other issue is if we were to get 2 defender/shooter/athletes, we might actually be better off with Reaves starting, because Reaves is more of an all around player than Russell. Maybe start Russell but go to Reaves quickly if he is not clicking.
Unlike Russell, who I have zero hopes of being considered a good defender, I do have some hope for Reaves. If he could pull it off, it would be a godsend.
DLO should be embarrassed that Reaves had to guard Murray in the playoffs.
I think it comes down to the different meanings people have for being a fan. Some people look at being a fan of a player as being that player's agent where you you have to hype up everything they do, even downright fabricating things and downplay or ignore all their flaws otherwise you aren't doing your job. Others view being a fan like being a scout, where if you can't be objective and unbiased then you aren't doing your job. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Dinwiddie was better than him. He was slightly better than AR.
Schroder was better than him on a season spent playing for 2 awful teams.
A whole bunch of mid players on there.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it. Tyus Jones is top 10 in the NBA in assist with the best assist/turnover ratio in the history of the NBA. That’s better than Dlo. I’m not high on Dlo tho I recognize his value, the only reason I respond is that there are so many takes…just my opinion….that show people don’t believe in what they are saying because what they are saying is obviously deceptive.
I’ve said it many times…if you believe in what you’re saying then just tell the truth…it’s when we don’t even believe our own BS that we employ deception. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Dlo without being deceptive. The stuff made up is so bad it should be known that other people know that it is known to be BS, but it is said anyway. Schroeder/Dinwiddie were not better playmakers and you know that we know that you know better, but you insinuated it anyway.
I know it may come across as an attack, and may be defended, but I don’t want it to come across that way. I just want to share logical exchanges of ideas without having to sift through emotional takes that we all know are issued to “win an argument”, not realistic beliefs. Those wants by me are unrealistic, I get it, it’s the internet, but just in case there’s a chance I put forth the effort.
I think it comes down to the different meanings people have for being a fan. Some people look at being a fan of a player as being that player's agent where you you have to hype up everything they do, even downright fabricating things and downplay or ignore all their flaws otherwise you aren't doing your job. Others view being a fan like being a scout, where if you can't be objective and unbiased then you aren't doing your job.
You can be biased sure. But theres bias and then theres whats going on in MJSTs mind. Its like MITWestbrook on r/nba but MJST is actually serious.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's flat out wrong to call him an elite playmaker. Does that mean I think he's worthless and would rather have Westbrook? No, it just means I'm not gonna act like he's something that he's not. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's flat out wrong to call him an elite playmaker. Does that mean I think he's worthless and would rather have Westbrook? No, it just means I'm not gonna act like he's something that he's not.
It’s cool man! Go Lakers! _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's flat out wrong to call him an elite playmaker. Does that mean I think he's worthless and would rather have Westbrook? No, it just means I'm not gonna act like he's something that he's not.
It’s cool man! Go Lakers!
best approach
When people start ignoring context, it's best to just leave them to their own devices. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Wed Aug 07, 2024 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's flat out wrong to call him an elite playmaker. Does that mean I think he's worthless and would rather have Westbrook? No, it just means I'm not gonna act like he's something that he's not.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpret.
Hello ignorer of context whom seems to love to ignore that DLO had to share the ball with two other playmakers like LeBron and Reaves and ignores that.
How about we see what DLO put up when LeBron didn't play
We've seen D'lo without LeBron and Reaves for full seasons. His career high apg is just over 7. Cherry picking 11 games isn't doing what you think it's doing. That's not how rankings work and you're not dumb so I think you know that. If I pick his 11 worst games is that reflective of the type of player he is overall? And there's multiple players who share playmaking duties and are still ranked ahead of D'lo so that's yet another weak excuse that really doesn't fly. Being an obsessed fan is fine, just don't mistake your delusion for anything other than what it is. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpret.
Hello ignorer of context whom seems to love to ignore that DLO had to share the ball with two other playmakers like LeBron and Reaves and ignores that.
How about we see what DLO put up when LeBron didn't play
Almost like Hanging got tired of going back and forth with you constantly ignoring context.
You're welcome to sit down now.
What's your suggestion, we bench Lebron, lol? Lebron is on the team. Russell has to fit in, not the other way around. Russell has been in the league a while. His stats speak for themselves. He is not some young or developing player. Cherry picking a good 11 game stretch means what exactly?
You really think Russell could be a 20-10 guy on a winning team?
We can put together a great 11 game stretch for any decent NBA player to make them look awesome.
Elite perhaps means something different to different people. Top 20 in the NBA in apg with good assist/turnover ratio is what I based it on. If elite to others restrict the criteria to top 10 or maybe top 5…or even deeper analytics…then I’m open minded to consider it.
There are 30 teams. D'lo ranks 21st in apg and 35th in ast:to. If we restrict it to just guards that's 17th in apg and 30th in ast:to. By definition that's average or below average. It's not a matter of interpret.
Hello ignorer of context whom seems to love to ignore that DLO had to share the ball with two other playmakers like LeBron and Reaves and ignores that.
How about we see what DLO put up when LeBron didn't play
The scrambling to move the goal posts and find another narrative to diminish what was done is hilarious
Deciding to ignore the context of how LeBron/Reaves would effect his numbers and then you remove LeBron from the equation and he puts up 10.8 assists and just 2.6 turnovers. Then suddenly its "Well.. these other player have had good stretches..." and "So should we just bench LeBron!?" hyperbole "You like pancakes, so that means you hate waffles!"
Like clockwork. Anyway, my point was proven, ya'll can continue screaming into the void if you want to _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
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