^ The Dirk reputation was always a little stupid and mostly a consequence of 2007, but the point I was making was about narratives. Russell's been bad in the playoffs, no doubt, but I think people seem to think that this is set in stone by God Almighty himself.
Here's a better comparison if y'all are missing the point -- most of us agree Jordan Poole is trash, right? Guy averaged 10 ppg on 45% TS% in the 2023 playoffs. He followed that up with chucking his way to 53% TS% (one of the worst in the league) in 2024. To say nothing of his defense.
But he also put up 18 ppg on 65% TS% in the 2022 playoffs. Without that performance, the 2022 Warriors don't win a ring. Who is to say DLO won't have a 2022 Jordan Poole playoffs run? No one is arguing he will, but it seems some of y'all are ruling it out, which doesn't make sense to me. Like, my argument is that if you can upgrade on Russell, then do it, obviously. Even if it's a higher floor, lower ceiling kinda guy who brings more intangibles. But there's no guarantee Russell gives you another 14 ppg on 50% TS% kind of playoffs either.
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Its just highlights but you cant show me DLO highlights that look like this. Poole isnt super athletic but he is still tiers above DLO in terms of quickness and raw athleticism.
So yes there are things Jordan Poole did in that playoff run that DLO will NEVER be able to do because he lacks the athleticism to do it.
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Good points. I think the main thing ignored is that there has been readily identified recognizable improvements…regular and post seasons…which make positive optimistic expectations more than just hypothetical speculation.
There was an improvement from the inability to contribute at all in 4 games vs Den in the playoffs before this last post season, to being able to produce 2 outstanding games and contributing for a 3rd game this past playoffs, (scoring more than 20ppg in both amazing games with greater than 50% shooting overall and also greater than 50% from 3pt).
Of course we won’t ever forget that abysmal game with zero points and also there was another 6-20 game amounting to 2 bad games as well. That’s a change from 4 bad games to 2, with 2 amazing games, so instead of 0-4 for contributing games it improved to 3-2. The 5th game was so-so, 6-15 fgs but 6 assists and 14pts, not a good game but it can’t be called a bad one either as the contributions were positive with Dlo also leading the entire team with +7, (next was +6 and everyone else was +3 or lower).
The improvements may not have been good enough. We all prefer a player that improves their production averages in the post season over a player like Dlo that has consistently had lower post season averages vs regular season. I get that, but there IS logical reasonable evidence to be optimistic, and at the very least if he is dealt…in order to upgrade the team instead of downgrading it…it would be necessary to at least approximate his production with new acquisitions if he is gone. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Fri Aug 16, 2024 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Good points. I think the main thing ignored is that there has been readily identified recognizable improvements…regular and post seasons…which make positive optimistic expectations more than just hypothetical speculation.
There was an improvement from the inability to contribute at all in 4 games vs Den in the playoffs before this last post season, to being able to produce 2 outstanding games and contributing for a 3rd game this past playoffs, (scoring more than 20ppg in both amazing games with greater than 50% shooting overall and also greater than 50% from 3pt).
Of course we won’t ever forget that abysmal game with zero points and also there was another 6-20 game amounting to 2 bad games as well. That’s an improvement from 4 bad games to 2 with 2 amazing games so instead of 0-4 for contributing games it improved to 3-2. The 5th game was so-so, 6-15 fgs but 6 assists and 14pts, not a good game but it can’t be called a bad one either as the contributions were positive with Dlo also leading the entire team with +7, (next was +6 and everyone else was +3 or lower).
The improvements may not have been good enough. We all prefer a player that improves their production averages in the post season over a player like Dlo that has consistently had lower post season averages vs regular season. I get that, but there IS logical reasonable evidence to be optimistic, and at the very least if he is dealt…in order to upgrade the team instead of downgrading it…it would be necessary to at least approximate his production with new acquisitions if he is gone.
6-15 is bad no matter how you spin it. Especially for a player who only contributes on offense. If you factor in his defense every game you have a negative player unless he shoots super efficiently.
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Good points. I think the main thing ignored is that there has been readily identified recognizable improvements…regular and post seasons…which make positive optimistic expectations more than just hypothetical speculation.
There was an improvement from the inability to contribute at all in 4 games vs Den in the playoffs before this last post season, to being able to produce 2 outstanding games and contributing for a 3rd game this past playoffs, (scoring more than 20ppg in both amazing games with greater than 50% shooting overall and also greater than 50% from 3pt).
Of course we won’t ever forget that abysmal game with zero points and also there was another 6-20 game amounting to 2 bad games as well. That’s an improvement from 4 bad games to 2 with 2 amazing games so instead of 0-4 for contributing games it improved to 3-2. The 5th game was so-so, 6-15 fgs but 6 assists and 14pts, not a good game but it can’t be called a bad one either as the contributions were positive with Dlo also leading the entire team with +7, (next was +6 and everyone else was +3 or lower).
The improvements may not have been good enough. We all prefer a player that improves their production averages in the post season over a player like Dlo that has consistently had lower post season averages vs regular season. I get that, but there IS logical reasonable evidence to be optimistic, and at the very least if he is dealt…in order to upgrade the team instead of downgrading it…it would be necessary to at least approximate his production with new acquisitions if he is gone.
6-15 is bad no matter how you spin it. Especially for a player who only contributes on offense. If you factor in his defense every game you have a negative player unless he shoots super efficiently.
It’s ok if we disagree that it is bad no matter how you spin it. That’s a matter of opinion…yours…and that’s fair. It’s cool…and allowed…for us to see the same thing differently.
What affect did it have on the game is the question? He was a +7 when on the court, leading all Lakers, and leading all but one other teammate by more than twice as much. I’m not calling it a good game btw, I’m calling it a game in which he contributed positively overall and the huge difference in +/- over almost all other teammates is a part of the logic I use to base my opinion. As a contrast, if he was last in +/-…or close to the bottom…with the same fg%, I’d look at it differently. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Good points. I think the main thing ignored is that there has been readily identified recognizable improvements…regular and post seasons…which make positive optimistic expectations more than just hypothetical speculation.
There was an improvement from the inability to contribute at all in 4 games vs Den in the playoffs before this last post season, to being able to produce 2 outstanding games and contributing for a 3rd game this past playoffs, (scoring more than 20ppg in both amazing games with greater than 50% shooting overall and also greater than 50% from 3pt).
Of course we won’t ever forget that abysmal game with zero points and also there was another 6-20 game amounting to 2 bad games as well. That’s an improvement from 4 bad games to 2 with 2 amazing games so instead of 0-4 for contributing games it improved to 3-2. The 5th game was so-so, 6-15 fgs but 6 assists and 14pts, not a good game but it can’t be called a bad one either as the contributions were positive with Dlo also leading the entire team with +7, (next was +6 and everyone else was +3 or lower).
The improvements may not have been good enough. We all prefer a player that improves their production averages in the post season over a player like Dlo that has consistently had lower post season averages vs regular season. I get that, but there IS logical reasonable evidence to be optimistic, and at the very least if he is dealt…in order to upgrade the team instead of downgrading it…it would be necessary to at least approximate his production with new acquisitions if he is gone.
6-15 is bad no matter how you spin it. Especially for a player who only contributes on offense. If you factor in his defense every game you have a negative player unless he shoots super efficiently.
It’s ok if we disagree that it is bad no matter how you spin it. That’s a matter of opinion…yours…and that’s fair. It’s cool…and allowed…for us to see the same thing differently.
What affect did it have on the game is the question? He was a +7 when on the court, leading all Lakers, and leading all but one other teammate by more than twice as much. I’m not calling it a good game btw, I’m calling it a game in which he contributed positively overall and the +/- is a part of the logic I use to base my opinion. As a contrast, if he was last in +/-…or close to the bottom…with the same fg%, I’d look at it differently.
+/- is a flawed stat when youre looking at specific individual games. It can be useful to look at trends over a season. +/- is much more about who is on the floor together.
But Poole showed out early in his career. Yeah he fell off after he got a bag but he has the results.
DLO is going on 10 years with the same label.
I guess sure anything is possible no matter how small, but then theres no point in analyzing players if we can just say, "but this year is different nothing is set in stone". We predict players success off of their past success especially when theres 10 years of data.
Poole is a great example. There is NOTHING of substance in Jordan Poole's character or skillset to say he has what it takes to succeed in the playoffs but Russell can't. Hell, in the series they played each other, Poole was far more detrimental to his team than Russell was to his - quite literally the worst player in the entire series. The guy is a bigger space cadet than D'Lo as well as being a lesser player. You watch him throughout that playoff run, it wasnt this athleticism that people say D'Lo lacks that made him succeed in that run: He was just simply in a groove and making shots at the right time and the Warriors came together in the right flow at the right time.
The point is understand that sometimes future results dont fall under neatly defined narratives due to luck/team play and or chemistry/player character or skill growth etc.
Good points. I think the main thing ignored is that there has been readily identified recognizable improvements…regular and post seasons…which make positive optimistic expectations more than just hypothetical speculation.
There was an improvement from the inability to contribute at all in 4 games vs Den in the playoffs before this last post season, to being able to produce 2 outstanding games and contributing for a 3rd game this past playoffs, (scoring more than 20ppg in both amazing games with greater than 50% shooting overall and also greater than 50% from 3pt).
Of course we won’t ever forget that abysmal game with zero points and also there was another 6-20 game amounting to 2 bad games as well. That’s an improvement from 4 bad games to 2 with 2 amazing games so instead of 0-4 for contributing games it improved to 3-2. The 5th game was so-so, 6-15 fgs but 6 assists and 14pts, not a good game but it can’t be called a bad one either as the contributions were positive with Dlo also leading the entire team with +7, (next was +6 and everyone else was +3 or lower).
The improvements may not have been good enough. We all prefer a player that improves their production averages in the post season over a player like Dlo that has consistently had lower post season averages vs regular season. I get that, but there IS logical reasonable evidence to be optimistic, and at the very least if he is dealt…in order to upgrade the team instead of downgrading it…it would be necessary to at least approximate his production with new acquisitions if he is gone.
6-15 is bad no matter how you spin it. Especially for a player who only contributes on offense. If you factor in his defense every game you have a negative player unless he shoots super efficiently.
It’s ok if we disagree that it is bad no matter how you spin it. That’s a matter of opinion…yours…and that’s fair. It’s cool…and allowed…for us to see the same thing differently.
What affect did it have on the game is the question? He was a +7 when on the court, leading all Lakers, and leading all but one other teammate by more than twice as much. I’m not calling it a good game btw, I’m calling it a game in which he contributed positively overall and the +/- is a part of the logic I use to base my opinion. As a contrast, if he was last in +/-…or close to the bottom…with the same fg%, I’d look at it differently.
+/- is a flawed stat when youre looking at specific individual games. It can be useful to look at trends over a season. +/- is much more about who is on the floor together.
I agree, you can’t look at +/- by itself. It has to be taken in context with other metrics and stats but it should not be completely ignored tho. Either way you look at it there is information that shows an improvement from the post season from the last two seasons. I stated that it might not be good enough as well. The improvement however, does give reasonable hope that the improvement may continue, of course it may not.
I only share my opinion on this because there are so many posts that infer that there were no post season contributions at all and act as if it is a fact that there hasn’t been any reasonable indication that it could possibly improve.
I’d actually like an upgrade over Dlo tho it probably comes across as a supporter, I’m not. I just recognize that if we dump him without replacing what he brings we could actually cause a downgrade, an understanding…or opinion…that I don’t see from so many other posts. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Its just highlights but you cant show me DLO highlights that look like this. Poole isnt super athletic but he is still tiers above DLO in terms of quickness and raw athleticism.
So yes there are things Jordan Poole did in that playoff run that DLO will NEVER be able to do because he lacks the athleticism to do it.
The real question to ask is did D'Lo's lack of athleticism hinder him from getting the shots he wanted or when he missed, did he just miss the shots he normally makes. If its the first, then he really does have a problem, if its the second, he has shown enough mental fortitude to at least show he can get into a groove even in a playoff setting. From that series with Denver in 2024, I dont remember D'Lo being stifled at all by KCP (His main defender from what I can recall). I cant remember any of his shots, even the ones that missed, that were affected by timing from great defense. Maybe you guys saw differently but the shot quality to me looked the same. The only off timing mechanism of his shot (especially in Game 1) seemed to me as due to him wanting to get off to a great start and forcing shots.
How athletic were/are Nash, Ginobili, Harden, and Luka compared to DLO?
Nash - better handles and smarter . Also was a much better shooter and half court creator
Ginobili - had a burst of speed Dlo doesn’t and never will
Harden - stronger, faster, better handle, mindful of refs
Luka - bigger and stronger, much smarter, and more well rounded
They all have him beat on intangibles. You could look at someone like Kyle Anderson and ask most GMs would you rather have Slow Mo or Dlo and Slow Mo is always going to get more offers. Andre Miller wasn’t fan, didn’t jump over a 1 inch binder, but he knew angles, foot work, and everything about a team.
Its just highlights but you cant show me DLO highlights that look like this. Poole isnt super athletic but he is still tiers above DLO in terms of quickness and raw athleticism.
So yes there are things Jordan Poole did in that playoff run that DLO will NEVER be able to do because he lacks the athleticism to do it.
I think that's a difference without a distinction. I agree that Poole can do some stuff DLO lacks the athleticism to do, but he's also a career 33% 3FG% and he shot 39% in the playoffs. 1995Lakers is right that he was just in a rhythm.
Again, I'm not here to bet on Russell having some breakout postseason. So we're probably more in agreement than not. I would trade him for someone who has a higher floor, either because he has the athleticism to get to the basket more, or because he does non-scoring things like rebound and defend. Trading for Bruce Brown is a good litmus test here, since he is a talent downgrade who has more intangibles. Is that a trade you make? (I would, but I would not add any assets besides like JHS or Max Lewis or something)
But I genuinely don't think that the Lakers have to trade Russell. I'm more concerned with filling holes on the roster than shipping out Russell per se. For example if the Lakers managed to get WCJ for Vincent and draft capital, the Lakers might prefer to keep Russell even if he becomes your bench PG in the playoffs (and your starters are like Reaves/ Christie/ James/ Davis/ Carter).
Its just highlights but you cant show me DLO highlights that look like this. Poole isnt super athletic but he is still tiers above DLO in terms of quickness and raw athleticism.
So yes there are things Jordan Poole did in that playoff run that DLO will NEVER be able to do because he lacks the athleticism to do it.
I think that's a difference without a distinction. I agree that Poole can do some stuff DLO lacks the athleticism to do, but he's also a career 33% 3FG% and he shot 39% in the playoffs. 1995Lakers is right that he was just in a rhythm.
Again, I'm not here to bet on Russell having some breakout postseason. So we're probably more in agreement than not. I would trade him for someone who has a higher floor, either because he has the athleticism to get to the basket more, or because he does non-scoring things like rebound and defend. Trading for Bruce Brown is a good litmus test here, since he is a talent downgrade who has more intangibles. Is that a trade you make? (I would, but I would not add any assets besides like JHS or Max Lewis or something)
But I genuinely don't think that the Lakers have to trade Russell. I'm more concerned with filling holes on the roster than shipping out Russell per se. For example if the Lakers managed to get WCJ for Vincent and draft capital, the Lakers might prefer to keep Russell even if he becomes your bench PG in the playoffs (and your starters are like Reaves/ Christie/ James/ Davis/ Carter).
Its funny u bought up Poole and gave me a great assist because he is probably the closest to an example of what I hope D'Lo is for our playoff run. A flawed dude (character-wise and skill-wise) who relied on his jumpers hitting and catching a great rhythm to be part of a title winning team. And we know he isn't some "Playoffs Poole" because we saw what happened the very next year and it was Poole playing like the Poole we all really expected.
As for D'Lo Im much higher on his skillset than his intangibles. But even his intangibles show me that at the very least, he could go on heaters during the playoffs and he can make singular big shots even if his overall stats are bad and the eye test shows me that the Lakers can play positive basketball with him on the floor during the playoffs as long as he isnt completely wetting the bed like he did vs Denver in 2023. For these reasons, Ill give him a chance and maybe even more chances until they can find a clear upgrade and who knows....maybe we will get a Poole-like run from D'Lo.
The hope is that Gabe, Max and Reaves can fill the holes that the evidence suggests will be created by D'lo in the playoffs. Shooting, defense, and clutch play/consistency from regular to postseason should be addressed by a combination of those 3 if or when D'lo isn't at the top of his game. Reaves did what you expect from him, we don't know what might've happened if Gabe or Max were in position to contribute. Hopefully either D'lo steps up or those 3 are capable of filling in the blanks. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."
Joined: 02 Jan 2012 Posts: 12359 Location: The Two One Three
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
How athletic were/are Nash, Ginobili, Harden, and Luka compared to DLO?
Ginobili was the most athletic from that group...prime Harden was right there before he decided to not take care of his body and that thickness - which attributes to his sharp athletic decline. I always thought of DLO as a less twichty/bulky Harden without the foul-baiting. Although DLO has always been less enamored about getting his own and would rather make the right basketball play. For better or worse Dlo has always been more a pass-happy guard than a shooter.
The hope is that Gabe, Max and Reaves can fill the holes that the evidence suggests will be created by D'lo in the playoffs. Shooting, defense, and clutch play/consistency from regular to postseason should be addressed by a combination of those 3 if or when D'lo isn't at the top of his game. Reaves did what you expect from him, we don't know what might've happened if Gabe or Max were in position to contribute. Hopefully either D'lo steps up or those 3 are capable of filling in the blanks.
Pretty much. Like when DLO had a DLO game and had 0 points in Game 3, he only played 24 minutes and Gabe played heavier minutes. If Dinwiddie / Vincent ever got in an offensive rhythm the plan would've worked better.
Its just highlights but you cant show me DLO highlights that look like this. Poole isnt super athletic but he is still tiers above DLO in terms of quickness and raw athleticism.
So yes there are things Jordan Poole did in that playoff run that DLO will NEVER be able to do because he lacks the athleticism to do it.
I think that's a difference without a distinction. I agree that Poole can do some stuff DLO lacks the athleticism to do, but he's also a career 33% 3FG% and he shot 39% in the playoffs. 1995Lakers is right that he was just in a rhythm.
Again, I'm not here to bet on Russell having some breakout postseason. So we're probably more in agreement than not. I would trade him for someone who has a higher floor, either because he has the athleticism to get to the basket more, or because he does non-scoring things like rebound and defend. Trading for Bruce Brown is a good litmus test here, since he is a talent downgrade who has more intangibles. Is that a trade you make? (I would, but I would not add any assets besides like JHS or Max Lewis or something)
But I genuinely don't think that the Lakers have to trade Russell. I'm more concerned with filling holes on the roster than shipping out Russell per se. For example if the Lakers managed to get WCJ for Vincent and draft capital, the Lakers might prefer to keep Russell even if he becomes your bench PG in the playoffs (and your starters are like Reaves/ Christie/ James/ Davis/ Carter).
Its funny u bought up Poole and gave me a great assist because he is probably the closest to an example of what I hope D'Lo is for our playoff run. A flawed dude (character-wise and skill-wise) who relied on his jumpers hitting and catching a great rhythm to be part of a title winning team. And we know he isn't some "Playoffs Poole" because we saw what happened the very next year and it was Poole playing like the Poole we all really expected.
As for D'Lo Im much higher on his skillset than his intangibles. But even his intangibles show me that at the very least, he could go on heaters during the playoffs and he can make singular big shots even if his overall stats are bad and the eye test shows me that the Lakers can play positive basketball with him on the floor during the playoffs as long as he isnt completely wetting the bed like he did vs Denver in 2023. For these reasons, Ill give him a chance and maybe even more chances until they can find a clear upgrade and who knows....maybe we will get a Poole-like run from D'Lo.
Yeah we're in agreement here. I personally thought his 2024 postseason was much more fine than people are saying. I don't think you should expect 18/6 on 41% from 3 like he does in the regular season, but he'll give you some great games, some meh games, and some absolute stinkers. The stinkers... you just gotta cut your losses early.
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1852 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2024 2:08 pm Post subject:
All of these conversations are so hilarious because he's a third option at 18 million a year. Compare him to other third options at around that salary.
All of these conversations are so hilarious because he's a third option at 18 million a year. Compare him to other third options at around that salary.
I mean, you can compare him to Austin Reaves who makes $12M. Reaves doesn't have as quite high of a ceiling as Russell but he's consistently good in the playoffs. Reaves' worst playoff series was probably this year against Denver and he still put up 17/4/4 on 59% TS% (while being the primary defender on an admittedly hobbled Murray).
But I think a well-constructed team can handle a boom-or-bust player like DLO who can single-handedly win you games like a star or produce literally nothing. This is where Gabe and Christie are essential.
All of these conversations are so hilarious because he's a third option at 18 million a year. Compare him to other third options at around that salary.
I mean, you can compare him to Austin Reaves who makes $12M. Reaves doesn't have as quite high of a ceiling as Russell but he's consistently good in the playoffs. Reaves' worst playoff series was probably this year against Denver and he still put up 17/4/4 on 59% TS% (while being the primary defender on an admittedly hobbled Murray).
But I think a well-constructed team can handle a boom-or-bust player like DLO who can single-handedly win you games like a star or produce literally nothing. This is where Gabe and Christie are essential.
I know Vincent was coming off injury, but counting on him in any kind of plan just doesn’t seem right. We have to hold our breath and hope his playoff run with Miami wasn’t just a fluke. He has never had a good regular season on a much larger sample size and put up multiple zero points games for the Lakers. I sure hope he has a redemption season but looking optimistically at Vincent while pessimistically at Dlo scares me. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
All of these conversations are so hilarious because he's a third option at 18 million a year. Compare him to other third options at around that salary.
I mean, you can compare him to Austin Reaves who makes $12M. Reaves doesn't have as quite high of a ceiling as Russell but he's consistently good in the playoffs. Reaves' worst playoff series was probably this year against Denver and he still put up 17/4/4 on 59% TS% (while being the primary defender on an admittedly hobbled Murray).
But I think a well-constructed team can handle a boom-or-bust player like DLO who can single-handedly win you games like a star or produce literally nothing. This is where Gabe and Christie are essential.
I know Vincent was coming off injury, but counting on him in any kind of plan just doesn’t seem right. We have to hold our breath and hope his playoff run with Miami wasn’t just a fluke. He has never had a good regular season on a much larger sample size and put up multiple zero points games for the Lakers. I sure hope he has a redemption season but looking optimistically at Vincent while pessimistically at Dlo scares me.
Even if you think his offense in 2023 was a fluke, even Miami Heat regular season Vincent is a huge boon for a bench that gave us nothing beyond Prince. Solid defense and toughness, some ability to run an offense and run PnR, and is a respectable threat from downtown despite his percentages (c.f. Vando). I don't expect Finals run Gabe Vincent but I do hope for a steady contributor.
All of these conversations are so hilarious because he's a third option at 18 million a year. Compare him to other third options at around that salary.
I mean, you can compare him to Austin Reaves who makes $12M. Reaves doesn't have as quite high of a ceiling as Russell but he's consistently good in the playoffs. Reaves' worst playoff series was probably this year against Denver and he still put up 17/4/4 on 59% TS% (while being the primary defender on an admittedly hobbled Murray).
But I think a well-constructed team can handle a boom-or-bust player like DLO who can single-handedly win you games like a star or produce literally nothing. This is where Gabe and Christie are essential.
I know Vincent was coming off injury, but counting on him in any kind of plan just doesn’t seem right. We have to hold our breath and hope his playoff run with Miami wasn’t just a fluke. He has never had a good regular season on a much larger sample size and put up multiple zero points games for the Lakers. I sure hope he has a redemption season but looking optimistically at Vincent while pessimistically at Dlo scares me.
Even if you think his offense in 2023 was a fluke, even Miami Heat regular season Vincent is a huge boon for a bench that gave us nothing beyond Prince. Solid defense and toughness, some ability to run an offense and run PnR, and is a respectable threat from downtown despite his percentages (c.f. Vando). I don't expect Finals run Gabe Vincent but I do hope for a steady contributor.
Hope you’re right, it would be good to at least get good point of attack defense from Vincent. Still, based on how they both looked, expecting Vincent to improve seems less likely than expecting Dlo to improve. It would sure help …if they’re still on the team…if both stepped up and delivered their best season/playoffs yet in their career. _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
The totality of the supporting cast isn't good enough.
AR had bad games, was a brick from 3, and also offers nothing on defense. Rui was literally worse than DLo and offers nothing on defense.
Vando offers nothing on offense. The others don't offer anything consistently either way.
You know the Lakers are in big trouble when Max Christie is being shooed-in for an important role, someone who's done NOTHING in the NBA.
The one defense of keeping DLo on this team is that nobody on the team should be the main parts of the supporting cast.
If AR and Rui can get the Lakers those player(s) and DLo can't, then the Lakers should do those trades while keeping DLo.
It would be advantageous for the Lakers to use DLo to get those player(s) since he's an expiring contract and AR is locked into a solid contract, but it doesn't seem like it's possible at this point.
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