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tox
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 Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 12:01 am Post subject: |
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That's fair kikanga, I think my take tends to be there's more randomness and we just attribute it to intangibles like "this person is a choker" -- I've seen enough strong single game DLO playoffs performances to think it's not really that he's actually a choker or anything, he's just very hot and cold. And you absolutely need a plan for when he's gonna give you a 0 point stinker. At $18M he's making enough that you can bench him on a bad game and be paying another guard something strong to take those minutes. And he can single handedly win you playoff games like he did in the first 2 series in 2023.
For instance -- if Klay Thompson and Jordan Poole could play basketball and the Lakers lose to the Warriors, suddenly Rui has had two awful series in a row (GSW 2023, DEN 2024) and the conversation seems different.
I will say, one thing I strongly dislike about Rui & Russell is if they're not scoring they're not giving you much. Russell will run the offense but as you noted, in the playoffs LeBron plays point (2023 being an exception, I assume due to injury) so that usefulness is reduced. And Russell specifically is really dependent on his streaky jump shot being useful. This is what puts Reaves on a different tier for me personally, I feel like he's able to make an impact even when he's missing shots |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2024 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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ThreePointBomber
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
Then his Warriors stats are the floor
| Quote: | | D'Angelo Russell has averaged 23.6 points, 6.2 assists and 3.7 rebounds in 33 games for the Warriors in his career. |
DLO should be shooting no less than 15 times a game with 10+ 3 point attempts.
Ham's coaching hamstrung the team.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| ThreePointBomber wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
Then his Warriors stats are the floor
| Quote: | | D'Angelo Russell has averaged 23.6 points, 6.2 assists and 3.7 rebounds in 33 games for the Warriors in his career. |
DLO should be shooting no less than 15 times a game with 10+ 3 point attempts.
Ham's coaching hamstrung the team. |
Their record in the 33 games he played was 8-25.
He averaged a -5.1 in terms of +/-.
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| ThreePointBomber wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
Then his Warriors stats are the floor
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You seem to have ceiling and floor mixed up.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Day
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Day wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
Because I'm not delusional? He actually regressed in a few categories last year. Any improvement you speak of wasn't anything he hadn't done at some point in his career before. So I'm not expecting him to take a leap especially since most of his limitations are based on his genetics and lack of athleticism. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just being realistic as to what his potential is. He'll be a key piece in the regular season and a liability in the playoffs.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Day wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
Because I'm not delusional? He actually regressed in a few categories last year. Any improvement you speak of wasn't anything he hadn't done at some point in his career before. So I'm not expecting him to take a leap especially since most of his limitations are based on his genetics and lack of athleticism. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just being realistic as to what his potential is. He'll be a key piece in the regular season and a liability in the playoffs. |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Day wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
Because I'm not delusional? He actually regressed in a few categories last year. Any improvement you speak of wasn't anything he hadn't done at some point in his career before. So I'm not expecting him to take a leap especially since most of his limitations are based on his genetics and lack of athleticism. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just being realistic as to what his potential is. He'll be a key piece in the regular season and a liability in the playoffs. |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
Me being realistic doesn't have to stop you from dreaming. That's your right.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Day wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
Because I'm not delusional? He actually regressed in a few categories last year. Any improvement you speak of wasn't anything he hadn't done at some point in his career before. So I'm not expecting him to take a leap especially since most of his limitations are based on his genetics and lack of athleticism. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just being realistic as to what his potential is. He'll be a key piece in the regular season and a liability in the playoffs. |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
Me being realistic doesn't have to stop you from dreaming. That's your right. |
You being realistic should know great playoff performers dont always perform in the playoffs every year and bad playoff performers could have years when they figure it out. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Day wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | You have to think DLO is going to be even better with a coach diagraming some plays. Which should also help AD to get touches, and also helps out Max, Dalton, etc. |
Ham isn't the only coach D'lo has played for. He still had a career year despite what you might think of the coaching. D'lo is going on 10 years in the league, there's nothing left to unlock. Doesn't mean he won't have a good season but I wouldn't get my hopes up on expecting something he hasn't shown up to now. |
He turned 28 this year, just entering his prime. How can you say he has nothing left to unlock ? He's improved multiple areas of his game even just going from year before last to last year. |
Because I'm not delusional? He actually regressed in a few categories last year. Any improvement you speak of wasn't anything he hadn't done at some point in his career before. So I'm not expecting him to take a leap especially since most of his limitations are based on his genetics and lack of athleticism. I'm not rooting against him, I'm just being realistic as to what his potential is. He'll be a key piece in the regular season and a liability in the playoffs. |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
Me being realistic doesn't have to stop you from dreaming. That's your right. |
You being realistic should know great playoff performers dont always perform in the playoffs every year and bad playoff performers could have years when they figure it out. |
Sure bro. If that's what you expect from D'lo that's great for you.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
Me being realistic doesn't have to stop you from dreaming. That's your right. |
You being realistic should know great playoff performers dont always perform in the playoffs every year and bad playoff performers could have years when they figure it out. |
Sure bro. If that's what you expect from D'lo that's great for you. |
He clearly didn't say he expects it, he said it's possible. Which it clearly is. People seem to have confused their descriptions for a guy's career so far (wherein he's absolutely been a choker) with the divine hands of fate themselves guaranteeing he will have a bad postseason very year. Who'd have guessed the guy who choked in 2007 would beat Kobe/Pau, KD/Russ/Harden, and LeBron/Wade/Bosh all in a row?
You might say it's unlikely and maybe that's true, but unless you can peer into the future, you don't know. |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: |
We will see about being a liability in the playoffs. Even guys known for either being bad/unable to step up in the playoffs and/or part of epic chokes like Alex Rodriguez, Clayton Kershaw, Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett to name a couple had an epic playoff run in them with enough playoff experience. There is no reason if these players could turn around their playoff blunders to lead/be significant part of a title winning team, D'Lo couldnt perform well enough to be a #3 guy on one. |
Me being realistic doesn't have to stop you from dreaming. That's your right. |
You being realistic should know great playoff performers dont always perform in the playoffs every year and bad playoff performers could have years when they figure it out. |
Sure bro. If that's what you expect from D'lo that's great for you. |
He clearly didn't say he expects it, he said it's possible. Which it clearly is. People seem to have confused their descriptions for a guy's career so far (wherein he's absolutely been a choker) with the divine hands of fate themselves guaranteeing he will have a bad postseason very year. Who'd have guessed the guy who choked in 2007 would beat Kobe/Pau, KD/Russ/Harden, and LeBron/Wade/Bosh all in a row?
You might say it's unlikely and maybe that's true, but unless you can peer into the future, you don't know. |
Or that its the same guy who went into San Antonio in 2006 to beat the 63-win Duncan and the Spurs in Game 7 at San Antonio the year before. Im sure everyone thought 2006 was the Mavericks to lose after they knocked off San Antonio and then took a 2-0 lead on an inferior Miami Heat team.
Yea that 2011 run was absolute bonkers. We all thought for sure it would be a sweep for us or 5 games at the most as Kidd was the one point guard, Fisher could actually stay in front of and their team was the one team that was actually older than us.
To tie this all with D'Lo, he has shown signs of being able to have good playoff games and not letting big moments get to him. It was underrated that right before Murray made one of his game winners (I think game 2), D'Lo actually drove and scored a bucket that gave the Lakers the lead with little time remaining when the momentum of the game was clearly against the Lakers in Denver. Also lets not forget Game 1 vs Warriors 2023 where D'Lo got a pass in the middle of the lane and scored what would be the game-winning bucket at the Oracle when the momentum of the game was again against the Lakers and the Warriors had just tied up the Lakers after being down like 14. Being able to score in tight moments (especially in playoff games) when the momentum of the game is against you and your team is usually a sign of a player that can execute in big games/moments. He hasn't always done it but again the signs are there. He isn't pissing his shorts being unable to execute in the moment - which you can definitely argue he did vs Denver in 2023 but it was just that one series where he looked truly awful. He just needs to get more and more aclimmated to the playoff setting and find a way to keep himself in rhythm and we need to win those games in which he does. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
Everything you said here makes sense. This category of guys you describe seem like they overpromise and underdeliver: there is often a tell with these kinds of guys - like something is off whether it is maturity or something else. D'Lo's behavior in Game 3 is a clear example/sign of this for me that he wasn't fully ready or there yet even if he showed some positive signs. The other category of chokers is not from what they say but a perceived softness that you can tell: Eddie Jones, David Robinson and Jayson Tatum fit into this picture. These three are the clearest examples of great players where a certain competitive manly dog attitude/love of fighting and mixing it up/ability to handle adversity isnt there |
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Japago
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
DLo's CAREER playoff numbers are 14.2/2.9/4.8 on .388/.327/.772.
He's doing this as a guy who ONLY brings offense.
Putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy.
Dirk actually had good playoff years before the 2011 playoffs. He was underrated because the teams around him weren't good enough.
Those situations aren't even remotely comparable. He was a superstar. |
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1995Lakers
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
DLo's CAREER playoff numbers are 14.2/2.9/4.8 on .388/.327/.772.
He's doing this as a guy who ONLY brings offense.
Putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy.
Dirk actually had good playoff years before the 2011 playoffs. He was underrated because the teams around him weren't good enough.
Those situations aren't even remotely comparable. He was a superstar. |
First of all, reading comp, nobody said D'Lo and Dirk are in the same stratosphere as players. Its who would u trust more, Dirk as a #1 or D'Lo as a #3. This question sounds asinine now but ask this question prior to 2011 and it doesn't seem so ridiculous with Dirk in his 13th or 14th season in the league already with his playoff failures the lasting memory of him. And dont go poo-pooing Dirk's failures now. Its not "because the team is not good enough" that was responsible for his most epic collapses: 2006 Finals and 2007 First Round vs Warriors - both series, his teams were massive favorites. Entering the 2010-2011 season, as you put it, putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy - which is lead the Mavericks to a title as the #1 option. |
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Japago
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 1820
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
DLo's CAREER playoff numbers are 14.2/2.9/4.8 on .388/.327/.772.
He's doing this as a guy who ONLY brings offense.
Putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy.
Dirk actually had good playoff years before the 2011 playoffs. He was underrated because the teams around him weren't good enough.
Those situations aren't even remotely comparable. He was a superstar. |
First of all, reading comp, nobody said D'Lo and Dirk are in the same stratosphere as players. Its who would u trust more, Dirk as a #1 or D'Lo as a #3. This question sounds asinine now but ask this question prior to 2011 and it doesn't seem so ridiculous with Dirk in his 13th or 14th season in the league already with his playoff failures the lasting memory of him. And dont go poo-pooing Dirk's failures now. Its not "because the team is not good enough" that was responsible for his most epic collapses: 2006 Finals and 2007 First Round vs Warriors - both series, his teams were massive favorites. Entering the 2010-2011 season, as you put it, putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy - which is lead the Mavericks to a title as the #1 option. |
"Playoff failures" have to do with the team not being good enough sometimes. You can't put it all on the superstar.
He was statistically great in 03, 06, 08, 09, and '10
That's not to say he wasn't at fault at times, but he played PLENTY of good basketball in the playoffs before 2011.
There's a much bigger sample size of good basketball there than DLo.
DLo's only solid(not even great) basketball in the playoffs was in 2023, against 2 suspect playoff teams. The Grizzlies dealt with major injuries, and the Warriors were on their last legs coming off a brutal 7 game series against the Kings.
AGAIN, not even comparable. |
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1995Lakers
Star Player
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4901
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
DLo's CAREER playoff numbers are 14.2/2.9/4.8 on .388/.327/.772.
He's doing this as a guy who ONLY brings offense.
Putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy.
Dirk actually had good playoff years before the 2011 playoffs. He was underrated because the teams around him weren't good enough.
Those situations aren't even remotely comparable. He was a superstar. |
First of all, reading comp, nobody said D'Lo and Dirk are in the same stratosphere as players. Its who would u trust more, Dirk as a #1 or D'Lo as a #3. This question sounds asinine now but ask this question prior to 2011 and it doesn't seem so ridiculous with Dirk in his 13th or 14th season in the league already with his playoff failures the lasting memory of him. And dont go poo-pooing Dirk's failures now. Its not "because the team is not good enough" that was responsible for his most epic collapses: 2006 Finals and 2007 First Round vs Warriors - both series, his teams were massive favorites. Entering the 2010-2011 season, as you put it, putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy - which is lead the Mavericks to a title as the #1 option. |
"Playoff failures" have to do with the team not being good enough sometimes. You can't put it all on the superstar.
He was statistically great in 03, 06, 08, 09, and '10
That's not to say he wasn't at fault at times, but he played PLENTY of good basketball in the playoffs before 2011.
There's a much bigger sample size of good basketball there than DLo.
DLo's only solid(not even great) basketball in the playoffs was in 2023, against 2 suspect playoff teams. The Grizzlies dealt with major injuries, and the Warriors were on their last legs coming off a brutal 7 game series against the Kings.
AGAIN, not even comparable. |
Again the comparison is between Dirk as a #1 option vs D'Lo as a #3 option. The point is prior to 2011, the thought that Dirk could lead the Mavericks to a chip as a #1 option was just as asinine (frankly even more so) to talk or think about as it is to think D'Lo could be #3 on a title winning team.
Think back to the NBA landscape in 2010 and really think about how ridiculous it was to think the Mavericks could win the 2011 title. It was purely asinine. Hell the year prior in 2010, we won the chip and they couldn't even get out of the first round against a #7 seeded Spurs team that eventually got swept by Phoenix. Their "upgrade" was trading for an often injured Tyson Chandler who only started half the games he played in for Charlotte.
Had you been a Mavericks fan at that time you would have done the same thing you are doing here which is clamoring for a game-changing trade thinking the Mavs had no chance against the 2-time champion Lakers, the remade Heat, much less the inferior Spurs who just knocked them out as the 7 seed and the NBA finalists Celtics.
Hence my original point, if Dirk could lead the Mavs to an entirely improbable title run in 2011, Lakers have a chance to win a title with D'Lo as a #3 if things fall into the right place.
You think Dirk had shown enough signs as a #1 prior to that year. Ok I'll just say D'Lo has shown enough signs as a #3 option (again #3 option and sometimes #4 option based on how Reaves is playing) to think he could be a contributor on a title-winning team. |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 30131
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | Japago wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | If you guys believe in D'lo and what to put him in the same breath as hall of famers and top 6 all time scorers that's fine. Just because I don't doesn't really mean anything. There's plenty of guys like D'lo who never figured it out but you don't have to look at the other side of the coin if you don't want to. |
You say this about Dirk now as #1 option. I wonder what your opinion of Dirk as a number #1 option was prior to the 2011 playoffs. Probably no better, if not worse, than your opinion of D'Lo as a #3 option. All im saying is he has shown signs. He isnt a complete playoff 0. |
It's not like I want him to play poorly. I was rooting for him in 23 and 24. In the 24 regular season he had some incredible moments and I really believed he turned the corner and would step up in the playoffs. But I was disappointed to the point of no longer having expectations. One thing I've noticed about guys like him is they never know when to shut up. Paul George, Harden, Embiid etc always talk a big game, usually in the offseason, and fall flat on their faces in the playoffs. "I'm on my bully (bleep)" "Scary hours" "I'm the best big in the league". D'lo randomly talking about Scroeder for no reason, I want all the smoke, I'm a killer, and now recently on Twitter comparing himself to Olympic Steph. Doesn't give me encouragement for the upcoming season. Just shows that he hasn't learned anything. |
DLo's CAREER playoff numbers are 14.2/2.9/4.8 on .388/.327/.772.
He's doing this as a guy who ONLY brings offense.
Putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy.
Dirk actually had good playoff years before the 2011 playoffs. He was underrated because the teams around him weren't good enough.
Those situations aren't even remotely comparable. He was a superstar. |
First of all, reading comp, nobody said D'Lo and Dirk are in the same stratosphere as players. Its who would u trust more, Dirk as a #1 or D'Lo as a #3. This question sounds asinine now but ask this question prior to 2011 and it doesn't seem so ridiculous with Dirk in his 13th or 14th season in the league already with his playoff failures the lasting memory of him. And dont go poo-pooing Dirk's failures now. Its not "because the team is not good enough" that was responsible for his most epic collapses: 2006 Finals and 2007 First Round vs Warriors - both series, his teams were massive favorites. Entering the 2010-2011 season, as you put it, putting your hopes on a 10+ year vet to do something he hasn't shown is crazy - which is lead the Mavericks to a title as the #1 option. |
1) Your argument is lazy. Because it can be used regardless of the players. For example, "people don't believe I can play in the NBA. But people also didn't think Kobe could win a chip without Shaq until 2008-2009. It just comes down to who do you trust more."
2) The Mavs weren't play-in teams (bottom 1/2 of their conference) with Dirk as a #1 option. Like we have been with DLO as #3 option. The gap in team performance isn't comparable. Meaning the improvement from DLO would have to be larger.
3) Even if you ignore 1 and 2. For every 1 player who takes a leap 10+ years into his NBA career (and that difference takes the team to a championship). How many players don't?
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When the world grows. Don't choose to stay the same. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 30131
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't hate DLO. I'm not one of the guys who wanted him gone for nothing this past offseason. And I rooted for him to take the next step this past postseason.
But I want off this DLO regular season vs. postseason rollercoaster.
It just seems so ridiculous to even put DLO in the same post as Curry or Dirk. Even if you aren't directly comparing those players to DLO.
Bringing up Isaiah Thomas's run in Boston seems more appropriate. If you are trying to talk about DLO's upside. Not top 75 players of all time.
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When the world grows. Don't choose to stay the same. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12811
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Dirk and Steph weren't passed around to like five different teams. Wolves became drastically better even making WCF after trading DLo away. Antman is streaky but at least he has his defense to fall back on.
Did the Lakers become better with DLo? Well, the Lakers won the championship when Bron and AD were healthy without DLo. With DLo on the team and Bron and AD healthy, they've only managed WCF and first round exit so they fared worse.
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 47872
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| Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2024 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | Dirk and Steph weren't passed around to like five different teams. Wolves became drastically better even making WCF after trading DLo away. Antman is streaky but at least he has his defense to fall back on.
Did the Lakers become better with DLo? Well, the Lakers won the championship when Bron and AD were healthy without DLo. With DLo on the team and Bron and AD healthy, they've only managed WCF and first round exit so they fared worse. |
Assuming DLO isn’t traded by now .. until the season starts and we keep him for our playoff run anything sort of a finals run would be a major disappointment and at that point the Lakers would need to move on from DLO |
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