Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 6503 Location: The Titanic that is the USA
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:40 am Post subject:
ChefLinda wrote:
Look, the rich have always used wedge issues to divide the masses so they could have us pointing fingers while they got rich. It's the story of our country. There have been periods when Democrats controlled government and made changes to curb the rich oligarchs and create some economic fairness for the masses (see FDR and post Depression government). But the rich and their GOP stooges in government have continually chipped away at anything that levels the playing field for regular people -- education, head start, social security, you name it.
This is not the fault of the left or progressive or Democrats.
The billionaires have all the levers of power. They have SCOTUS, Trump and his billionaire appointees, all the media from the LA Times, NYT, Washington Post, Time Magazine, all the Cable Networks. They control Social Media -- hello Elon and Mark.
If you think all this unbalance is due to people on the left figuring this out and saying the truth out loud then I don't know what to tell you.
Our entire culture is out of balance and there are no easy answers.
But I choose to blame the people that caused it and those that are complicit in perpetuating it. The rich, the Republicans and the people who vote for them.
Even when the Left has had the bully pulpit, and they have made gains for average Americans, has the attitude ever changed about who does better for said average Americans? It hasn't. Most people still parrot the same refrain that Rs are better for the economy even when all evidence runs to the contrary. That's a messaging problem.
I would hazard a guess that Bernie's platform is more in line with what most Americans want and need, but it'll never see the light of day because the Left gets out-gamed even when they have a winning formula. [I'm not no fan of Bernie the politician, but I tend to believe that if his policies were repackaged/disguised, most of middle America would love the outcome.]
You can blame the people who have created this mess, but that's pretty much my point. No one cares if the Left is correct. Average Joe cares even less when he is told he's stupid for not being sold on the message. If there's any chance to reverse course, make lives better, and save this republic, it's not going to be accomplished by using messaging that is already ostensibly ineffective. _________________ You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman
Look, the rich have always used wedge issues to divide the masses so they could have us pointing fingers while they got rich. It's the story of our country. There have been periods when Democrats controlled government and made changes to curb the rich oligarchs and create some economic fairness for the masses (see FDR and post Depression government). But the rich and their GOP stooges in government have continually chipped away at anything that levels the playing field for regular people -- education, head start, social security, you name it.
This is not the fault of the left or progressive or Democrats.
The billionaires have all the levers of power. They have SCOTUS, Trump and his billionaire appointees, all the media from the LA Times, NYT, Washington Post, Time Magazine, all the Cable Networks. They control Social Media -- hello Elon and Mark.
If you think all this unbalance is due to people on the left figuring this out and saying the truth out loud then I don't know what to tell you.
Our entire culture is out of balance and there are no easy answers.
But I choose to blame the people that caused it and those that are complicit in perpetuating it. The rich, the Republicans and the people who vote for them.
Even when the Left has had the bully pulpit, and they have made gains for average Americans, has the attitude ever changed about who does better for said average Americans? It hasn't. Most people still parrot the same refrain that Rs are better for the economy even when all evidence runs to the contrary. That's a messaging problem.
I would hazard a guess that Bernie's platform is more in line with what most Americans want and need, but it'll never see the light of day because the Left gets out-gamed even when they have a winning formula. [I'm not no fan of Bernie the politician, but I tend to believe that if his policies were repackaged/disguised, most of middle America would love the outcome.]
You can blame the people who have created this mess, but that's pretty much my point. No one cares if the Left is correct. Average Joe cares even less when he is told he's stupid for not being sold on the message. If there's any chance to reverse course, make lives better, and save this republic, it's not going to be accomplished by using messaging that is already ostensibly ineffective.
Quite clearly. Every time a report comes out that benefits a Republican in power or harms a Democrat in power, the Republicans hammer away at it-- one must pay attention to a variety of "news" sites to really see this. If a report does not have a message they like (say the unemployment rate or GDP data), they would find more obscure data, like labor force data, to use as a weapon or a pat on the back--and this relentlessness has has gone on for so long that it has become en-grained. Now, with the Trump phenomena with alternative facts, Republicans don't have to pretend to be honest brokers, they just make (bleep) up that is believed further by their rank and file. And undoing it might just be too late. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
I think it's pretty clear Kamala ran a good campaign, it's why her margin in swing states "only" shifted 3 points relative to 2020, whereas nationwide it shifted 6 points.
Well, she ran a campaign that got her just shy of 75 million votes, which is very good, but in comparing her votes to Biden's 2020 votes, she did NOT get more votes than him in ANY state, nor ANY county across the nation!
tox wrote:
Of course Kamala herself was unpopular, probably due to some combination of ties to the Biden administration, her 2019 policy positions, racism, and sexism.
Again, hard to call someone who received 75 million votes "unpopular", but you are right about her sort of flip-flopping on her previous "values", her inability to address questions without spinning the now infamous "word-salads" and her inability the distance herself from the current Biden administration were the main reasons she did not win.
tox wrote:
With that said, while there is probably some institutional advantage that Republicans have on Democrats on the economy, IMO the bigger advantage is Trump-specific:
1) Voters liked the 2019 economy (and don't blame him for the 2020 COVID economy)
2) Trump has a reputation as a successful billionaire businessman, and people think that means he has a good economic background.
Agree 100% and would add, that it is not necessarily "some institutional advantage that Republicans have on Democrats on the economy" it is more of the ability of the party running against the incumbent, has the ability to point to what they have done and state how they would improve it (even if it will not work, it just has to sound like it will)...
tox wrote:
There's literally nothing any Democrat could've done to be seen as better on the economy than Trump.
I think IF a Democratic Primary would have been run, someone like Shapiro would have been able to easily beat Kamala and would have been able to say he would do things differently than Biden, that could have been enough to beat Trump...
tox wrote:
People are stupid and you will simply never reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into.
This is perhaps the single greatest line ever spoken in here! It is pretty much the underlying message in every post! The 77 million Trump voters are all racists, fascists, nazi's, rapists, liars, ignorant losers who can't see the forest through the trees!
tox wrote:
If Trump actually enacts economic chaos via tariffs & deportation, voters will be nostalgic for Biden's economy in 2024 (but, what they understand Biden's economy to mean will be a separate question).
I am fine with waiting to see how the Tariff threats shake out, my guess is that either side will "blink" before the doom-n-gloom predictions floated here actually take place. Same with the deportations, it has been repeated stated (and ignored by the haters) that the initial deportation targets are the ones with Criminal records. Rounding all of them up may take 4 years, meaning the law-abiding illegal immigrants can go on with their lives. Now that does not slow down all the negative press, but that along with "remain in Mexico" and rebuilding/finishing the Wall/enacting New Immigration Laws (instead of executive orders) should be enough of a change to satisfy the public at large.
AND, in 2028, the Democrat Presidential candidate will be able to point to whatever Trump/Vance has done and discuss how he would improve things! This should give Him/Her a big advantage over Vance! _________________ Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun
I am fine with waiting to see how the Tariff threats shake out, my guess is that either side will "blink" before the doom-n-gloom predictions floated here actually take place. Same with the deportations, it has been repeated stated (and ignored by the haters) that the initial deportation targets are the ones with Criminal records. Rounding all of them up may take 4 years, meaning the law-abiding illegal immigrants can go on with their lives. Now that does not slow down all the negative press, but that along with "remain in Mexico" and rebuilding/finishing the Wall/enacting New Immigration Laws (instead of executive orders) should be enough of a change to satisfy the public at large.
AND, in 2028, the Democrat Presidential candidate will be able to point to whatever Trump/Vance has done and discuss how he would improve things! This should give Him/Her a big advantage over Vance!
I'm not sure what you mean by blinking--that Trump will not impose his tariffs??? And in what way would Demcrats blink on this? As to deportations, I don't, nor do I believe anyone else but some nutjob, would have objections to deporting non-citizen felons. And if that was the only goal, then Trump will have failed his faithful and his promise. The only way he will get right wing centric immigration legislation accomplished will be via elimination of the filibuster. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Look, the rich have always used wedge issues to divide the masses so they could have us pointing fingers while they got rich. It's the story of our country. There have been periods when Democrats controlled government and made changes to curb the rich oligarchs and create some economic fairness for the masses (see FDR and post Depression government). But the rich and their GOP stooges in government have continually chipped away at anything that levels the playing field for regular people -- education, head start, social security, you name it.
This is not the fault of the left or progressive or Democrats.
The billionaires have all the levers of power. They have SCOTUS, Trump and his billionaire appointees, all the media from the LA Times, NYT, Washington Post, Time Magazine, all the Cable Networks. They control Social Media -- hello Elon and Mark.
If you think all this unbalance is due to people on the left figuring this out and saying the truth out loud then I don't know what to tell you.
Our entire culture is out of balance and there are no easy answers.
But I choose to blame the people that caused it and those that are complicit in perpetuating it. The rich, the Republicans and the people who vote for them.
Even when the Left has had the bully pulpit, and they have made gains for average Americans, has the attitude ever changed about who does better for said average Americans? It hasn't. Most people still parrot the same refrain that Rs are better for the economy even when all evidence runs to the contrary. That's a messaging problem.
I would hazard a guess that Bernie's platform is more in line with what most Americans want and need, but it'll never see the light of day because the Left gets out-gamed even when they have a winning formula. [I'm not no fan of Bernie the politician, but I tend to believe that if his policies were repackaged/disguised, most of middle America would love the outcome.]
You can blame the people who have created this mess, but that's pretty much my point. No one cares if the Left is correct. Average Joe cares even less when he is told he's stupid for not being sold on the message. If there's any chance to reverse course, make lives better, and save this republic, it's not going to be accomplished by using messaging that is already ostensibly ineffective.
Let me know when you have a plan to force the billionaires to give up their control of the media so the Democratic message can penetrate.
Edited to add: During the campaign, Republican voters were shown a list of all of Kamala Harris's policies, without being told they were her policies, and they all loved the policies. They mistakenly thought they were Trump policies. When told they were Harris's policies they didn't believe they were being told the truth. What kind of messaging do you suggest to penetrate this kind of cognitive dissonance? _________________ Don't blame me. I voted for Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton.
Last edited by ChefLinda on Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
I'm not sure what you mean by blinking--that Trump will not impose his tariffs??? And in what way would Democrats blink on this?
LOL, sorry for the confusion, by saying "the other side will blink" I did NOT mean Democrats, I meant the countries that the tariff's would potentially target.
Now, I am not as clairvoyant as the others here, but my thoughts on the matter are that Trump has thrown that out there to get the attention of Canada and Mexico, in order to get them to step up their efforts of stemming the flow of immigrants (either legal or illegal) into the US!
AND as long as they make some attempt or at least open lines of communication with their willingness to do "something" then any potential tariff's will be put on hold. Now, while this is perfectly logical, I'm sure it will not slow down all the doom and gloom talk about ruining the US economy, (WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT TRUMP RAN ON IMPROVING), by the Trump-haters here, but as I have said previously, I would rather wait and see what happens, then react to real facts, not negative/fear-based ones...
ribeye wrote:
I don't, nor do I believe anyone else but some nut job, would have objections to deporting non-citizen felons.
Great, then we agree!
ribeye wrote:
And if that was the only goal, then Trump will have failed his faithful and his promise.
Not sure what this means, if you would care to expand on it or we could wait to see what really happens...
ribeye wrote:
The only way he will get right wing centric immigration legislation accomplished will be via elimination of the filibuster.
Well, if that's your opinion, I can't argue or even disagree, but it just seems pointless to have a President sign executive orders that the next President removes, so if Trump wants to get actual LAWS in place, that cannot be reversed by a future President, the best way would be to get Congress to pass actual Immigration laws and with his party holding majorities, he would seem to hold some advantage, but again, I'm fine waiting and seeing... _________________ Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17928 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:59 am Post subject:
unleasHell wrote:
I am fine with waiting to see how the Tariff threats shake out, my guess is that either side will "blink" before the doom-n-gloom predictions floated here actually take place. Same with the deportations, it has been repeated stated (and ignored by the haters) that the initial deportation targets are the ones with Criminal records. Rounding all of them up may take 4 years, meaning the law-abiding illegal immigrants can go on with their lives. Now that does not slow down all the negative press, but that along with "remain in Mexico" and rebuilding/finishing the Wall/enacting New Immigration Laws (instead of executive orders) should be enough of a change to satisfy the public at large.
Here's the thing. We shouldn't be threatening our closest allies and neighbors with tariffs to see if they blink. That's a (bleep) way to operate, and they're going to trust us less in the future.
I'm not sure what you mean by blinking--that Trump will not impose his tariffs??? And in what way would Democrats blink on this?
LOL, sorry for the confusion, by saying "the other side will blink" I did NOT mean Democrats, I meant the countries that the tariff's would potentially target.
Now, I am not as clairvoyant as the others here, but my thoughts on the matter are that Trump has thrown that out there to get the attention of Canada and Mexico, in order to get them to step up their efforts of stemming the flow of immigrants (either legal or illegal) into the US!
AND as long as they make some attempt or at least open lines of communication with their willingness to do "something" then any potential tariff's will be put on hold. Now, while this is perfectly logical, I'm sure it will not slow down all the doom and gloom talk about ruining the US economy, (WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT TRUMP RAN ON IMPROVING), by the Trump-haters here, but as I have said previously, I would rather wait and see what happens, then react to real facts, not negative/fear-based ones...
ribeye wrote:
I don't, nor do I believe anyone else but some nut job, would have objections to deporting non-citizen felons.
Great, then we agree!
ribeye wrote:
And if that was the only goal, then Trump will have failed his faithful and his promise.
Not sure what this means, if you would care to expand on it or we could wait to see what really happens...
ribeye wrote:
The only way he will get right wing centric immigration legislation accomplished will be via elimination of the filibuster.
Well, if that's your opinion, I can't argue or even disagree, but it just seems pointless to have a President sign executive orders that the next President removes, so if Trump wants to get actual LAWS in place, that cannot be reversed by a future President, the best way would be to get Congress to pass actual Immigration laws and with his party holding majorities, he would seem to hold some advantage, but again, I'm fine waiting and seeing...
What I meant was that Trump was not suggesting to just get rid of non citizen felons, but all non citizens and this is what was heard as this is a major issue for those who find immigrants as the reason for jobs leaving this country.
Of course, executive orders suck as they are not law. This is precisely why Biden wanted congress to act--and they did until Trump stepped in, to not solve the problem as he did not do when he was president, but to make it an issue to run on. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo"
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 54802 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:35 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
I am fine with waiting to see how the Tariff threats shake out, my guess is that either side will "blink" before the doom-n-gloom predictions floated here actually take place. Same with the deportations, it has been repeated stated (and ignored by the haters) that the initial deportation targets are the ones with Criminal records. Rounding all of them up may take 4 years, meaning the law-abiding illegal immigrants can go on with their lives. Now that does not slow down all the negative press, but that along with "remain in Mexico" and rebuilding/finishing the Wall/enacting New Immigration Laws (instead of executive orders) should be enough of a change to satisfy the public at large.
Here's the thing. We shouldn't be threatening our closest allies and neighbors with tariffs to see if they blink. That's a (bleep) way to operate, and they're going to trust us less in the future.
Plus, there's not really much reason for them to blink. Tariffs hurt the consumers in the country that is enforcing the tariffs. The "targeted" countries don't pay anything, so it's simply a matter of whether some of the demand for their exports will decline a bit, and in the case with most of them, it won't, because there is a reason the US is importing them. Most of the stuff coming in from Mexico and Canada is stuff we will keep importing despite the increased costs associated with the tariffs.
unleasHell wrote:
LOL, sorry for the confusion, by saying "the other side will blink" I did NOT mean Democrats, I meant the countries that the tariff's would potentially target.
Now, I am not as clairvoyant as the others here, but my thoughts on the matter are that Trump has thrown that out there to get the attention of Canada and Mexico, in order to get them to step up their efforts of stemming the flow of immigrants (either legal or illegal) into the US!
Clearly not clairvoyant, because it's not like Canada and Mexico are sitting there thinking, "OH NO! What are we going to do about the US Tariffs?! We better do what Trump says". In fact, as we just saw with Canada and their threat that they may cut off some energy sources for the US, they are more likely to strike back than succumb. _________________ "You know it seems the more we talk about it, it only makes it worse to live without it."
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 54802 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:38 pm Post subject:
unleasHell wrote:
the best way would be to get Congress to pass actual Immigration laws ...
Like Biden tried to do this past summer, but the GOP shut it down so they could perpetuate the myth that you buy into that Biden was doing nothing about immigration. _________________ "You know it seems the more we talk about it, it only makes it worse to live without it."
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17928 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:39 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Senate Democrats were livid after Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin (I-W.Va.), two longtime members of their caucus, voted Wednesday to block President Biden’s nominee, Lauren McFerran, to serve another five-year term on the National Labor Relations Board.
Senate Democrats blasted their votes to sink Biden’s nominee and hand Republicans a major victory as “pathetic” and “disappointing.”
Some angry Democratic senators went even further by saying they’ll be happy when both Sinema and Manchin are finally out of the Senate next year.
“I think people are not sorry to see them go,” said one Democratic senator, who requested anonymity to discuss the lingering resentments over Sinema’s and Manchin’s habit of bucking the party.
Had either Sinema or Manchin voted yes, the nominee would have likely passed 50-49 and given Democrats a majority on the agency tasked with safeguarding employees’ rights to organize until 2026.
And yet when white man Biden beat Trump in 2020 people were completely aware that Trump had screwed up COVID and tanked the economy. But then in 2024 they suddenly "forgot" what they knew when the Black Woman was running.
I don't even (bleep) care if it was stupidity, ignorance, apathy or racism/misogyny/bigotry. Their collective narcissism is going to hurt all of us and they were too selfish/greedy/stupid to care that they were hurting others. Either they knew their vote would hurt others and that was the point, or they didn't care that their vote would hurt others because they are selfish.
It's all bad and there are no excuses at this point. They are all in the bucket of deplorables as far as I'm concerned.
Again you don't need to convince anyone here, Trump didn't do anything besides make the debt spike like crazy. He just benefited from the slow post-GFC slow recovery finally ending. But Heartburn is 100% right, people think he did a good job and you can't escape that reality. I think the only way the Dems turned the economy into a winning issue is if they go full 2012 Obama on him. Basically make their entire message that he's a plutocrat who wants to cut taxes for his mega billionaire friends. The Democrats didn't do that so they were conceding on the economy.
Not sure if anyone posted this, but my (Reagan Republican) dad had CNN on of all things and they posted a quote from Trump where he shows he actually doesn't give one (bleep) about the trans issue one way or another:
Quote:
“I don’t want to get into the bathroom issue,” Trump told Time. “Because it’s a very small number of people we’re talking about, and it’s ripped apart our country, so they’ll have to settle whatever the law finally agrees.”
Obviously "demagoguing against a vulnerable minority to win votes" is so far down Trump's list of issues that it barely even registers in his 1000 greatest hits. In any case, I hope this turns the temperature down and we can let trans people exist in peace.
Side note: Just gonna ignore the fact that "have to settle whatever the law finally agrees" makes literally no sense and were it Biden who said that, we'd have had 35 articles written within an hour
Well according to the link below, the US Transgender population is at 1.14%!
Meaning that for 98.86% of the US population this is not a major issue.
If it is for you, then I respect that and I'm not trying to argue...
Just wondering why any Politician from any party would feel it is a priority to focus on any demographic that makes up such a small number?
Because I care about the human rights of everyone, including minorities who I rarely encounter? That's the (bleep) point right? The left just wants to let these people be. The right is the one who wants to burn them on the stake because they're bigots or because they find a political opportunity in being bigots. 1% of the population is Indian American, I would hope (as an Indian American) that if a politician decided in 2028 their path to winning is to toss all Indians in internment camps, your response wouldn't be "well for 98.86% of the US population this is not a major issue"
And obviously I'm glad Trump is planning to leave them alone given what the crazies like Nancy Mace are saying/ doing.
Senate Democrats were livid after Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin (I-W.Va.), two longtime members of their caucus, voted Wednesday to block President Biden’s nominee, Lauren McFerran, to serve another five-year term on the National Labor Relations Board.
Senate Democrats blasted their votes to sink Biden’s nominee and hand Republicans a major victory as “pathetic” and “disappointing.”
Some angry Democratic senators went even further by saying they’ll be happy when both Sinema and Manchin are finally out of the Senate next year.
“I think people are not sorry to see them go,” said one Democratic senator, who requested anonymity to discuss the lingering resentments over Sinema’s and Manchin’s habit of bucking the party.
Had either Sinema or Manchin voted yes, the nominee would have likely passed 50-49 and given Democrats a majority on the agency tasked with safeguarding employees’ rights to organize until 2026.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17928 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 2:44 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Gabbard struggles to woo senators ahead of confirmation fight
Tulsi Gabbard is struggling through her meetings with senators this week, sources told The Hill, highlighting the difficult path she faces in winning confirmation to be director of national intelligence.
Nearly a half dozen sources, including senators and individuals close to the situation, indicated that Gabbard is having trouble during meetings with lawmakers, with one source familiar describing the sit-downs as “not going well.”
“She was proving to be a little shallow, like a House member talking at a hearing and not someone who needs to provide the president’s daily intelligence briefing,” the source familiar said.
Two Senate Republicans also echoed the concerns, with one noting that multiple members who have sat down with the former Democratic Hawaii congresswoman have come away unimpressed thus far.
“I’ve heard that she’s not very well prepared. … I’ve heard not great things,” the Senate GOP member said, describing them as “BS sessions.”
The second Senate Republican added there have been “a lot of eyerolls” from members who have sat down Gabbard early on.
The objections lawmakers have stem from Gabbard’s lack of experience and her relationships with U.S. adversaries.
Meaning that for 98.86% of the US population this is not a major issue.
So, according to you, the only people concerned about transgender people are trans people themselves and to everyone else it's not an issue . . . so if that's the case, why have people in that 98.6% been ranting about trans athletes and trans women being in women's bathrooms? On the other end, there are no non-trans people who support their rights?
Sorry, but your math doesn't equate to reality on the issue. _________________ "You know it seems the more we talk about it, it only makes it worse to live without it."
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17928 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:01 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
I am fine with waiting to see how the Tariff threats shake out, my guess is that either side will "blink" before the doom-n-gloom predictions floated here actually take place. Same with the deportations, it has been repeated stated (and ignored by the haters) that the initial deportation targets are the ones with Criminal records. Rounding all of them up may take 4 years, meaning the law-abiding illegal immigrants can go on with their lives. Now that does not slow down all the negative press, but that along with "remain in Mexico" and rebuilding/finishing the Wall/enacting New Immigration Laws (instead of executive orders) should be enough of a change to satisfy the public at large.
Here's the thing. We shouldn't be threatening our closest allies and neighbors with tariffs to see if they blink. That's a (bleep) way to operate, and they're going to trust us less in the future.
Plus, there's not really much reason for them to blink. Tariffs hurt the consumers in the country that is enforcing the tariffs. The "targeted" countries don't pay anything, so it's simply a matter of whether some of the demand for their exports will decline a bit, and in the case with most of them, it won't, because there is a reason the US is importing them. Most of the stuff coming in from Mexico and Canada is stuff we will keep importing despite the increased costs associated with the tariffs.
unleasHell wrote:
LOL, sorry for the confusion, by saying "the other side will blink" I did NOT mean Democrats, I meant the countries that the tariff's would potentially target.
Now, I am not as clairvoyant as the others here, but my thoughts on the matter are that Trump has thrown that out there to get the attention of Canada and Mexico, in order to get them to step up their efforts of stemming the flow of immigrants (either legal or illegal) into the US!
Clearly not clairvoyant, because it's not like Canada and Mexico are sitting there thinking, "OH NO! What are we going to do about the US Tariffs?! We better do what Trump says". In fact, as we just saw with Canada and their threat that they may cut off some energy sources for the US, they are more likely to strike back than succumb.
You're exactly right.
Idiots are about to learn what the word "fungible" means.
I'm sure Canada is more than happy to sell its oil and lumber elsewhere.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17928 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:03 pm Post subject:
tox wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
Quote:
Senate Democrats were livid after Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin (I-W.Va.), two longtime members of their caucus, voted Wednesday to block President Biden’s nominee, Lauren McFerran, to serve another five-year term on the National Labor Relations Board.
Senate Democrats blasted their votes to sink Biden’s nominee and hand Republicans a major victory as “pathetic” and “disappointing.”
Some angry Democratic senators went even further by saying they’ll be happy when both Sinema and Manchin are finally out of the Senate next year.
“I think people are not sorry to see them go,” said one Democratic senator, who requested anonymity to discuss the lingering resentments over Sinema’s and Manchin’s habit of bucking the party.
Had either Sinema or Manchin voted yes, the nominee would have likely passed 50-49 and given Democrats a majority on the agency tasked with safeguarding employees’ rights to organize until 2026.
Senate Democrats were livid after Sens. Kyrsten Sinema (I-Ariz.) and Joe Manchin (I-W.Va.), two longtime members of their caucus, voted Wednesday to block President Biden’s nominee, Lauren McFerran, to serve another five-year term on the National Labor Relations Board.
Senate Democrats blasted their votes to sink Biden’s nominee and hand Republicans a major victory as “pathetic” and “disappointing.”
Some angry Democratic senators went even further by saying they’ll be happy when both Sinema and Manchin are finally out of the Senate next year.
“I think people are not sorry to see them go,” said one Democratic senator, who requested anonymity to discuss the lingering resentments over Sinema’s and Manchin’s habit of bucking the party.
Had either Sinema or Manchin voted yes, the nominee would have likely passed 50-49 and given Democrats a majority on the agency tasked with safeguarding employees’ rights to organize until 2026.
Good riddance to Sinema. I would love as many Manchins as possible from deep red states, frankly.
But man is it frustrating when you're relying on them for critical votes.
For sure, but that's why they win their deep red states! They're gonna be annoyingly heterodox to people who are committed liberals/ progressives. If they didn't piss us off, they would end up losing. The Biden administration did a lot of things I liked and it wouldn't have happened if WV had a GOP senator in place of Manchin. I try to remember that when I get annoyed by all of his weird positions.
My hope would be if Dems could win ~5 safe Senate seats in red states (think guys like Dan Osborn) then the idiosyncrasies of any one or two of these people wouldn't get in the way of your agenda. As a block they would have a moderating influence on your governing agenda, but that's life!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 54802 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:23 pm Post subject:
LakerFan1987 wrote:
Murdock wrote:
The Biden administration looks weak/clueless and impotent...
Seriously?
People are scared and deserve a straight answer...
Seriously, this has been going on for close to a month now and still nothing.
And what is the Biden administration supposed to do about some random drones? Send out the military on our own soil to start shooting them down? _________________ "You know it seems the more we talk about it, it only makes it worse to live without it."
The Biden administration looks weak/clueless and impotent...
Seriously?
People are scared and deserve a straight answer...
Seriously, this has been going on for close to a month now and still nothing.
And what is the Biden administration supposed to do about some random drones? Send out the military on our own soil to start shooting them down?
What are they? Are they ours? Foreign? Why are they hovering over sensitive locations? Give the people some transparency and some answers.. Again.. a gee gosh, aww shucks everything's fine but we really don't know what's going on here, doesn't inspire confidence Mule, and you know this.
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 8190 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:33 pm Post subject:
Murdock wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
LakerFan1987 wrote:
Murdock wrote:
The Biden administration looks weak/clueless and impotent...
Seriously?
People are scared and deserve a straight answer...
Seriously, this has been going on for close to a month now and still nothing.
And what is the Biden administration supposed to do about some random drones? Send out the military on our own soil to start shooting them down?
What are they? Are they ours? Foreign? Why are they hovering over sensitive locations? Give the people some transparency and some answers.. Again.. a gee gosh, aww shucks everything's fine but we really don't know what's going on here, doesn't inspire confidence Mule, and you know this.
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