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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:11 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
32 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
MSNBC saying there are felony charges (per their contact at NYT).


That's great. I think he could get to 1-4 years in prison.


I doubt these charges result in prison time. Conviction itself is going to be hugely difficult. Trump has spent his lifetime insulating himself from culpability by setting up fall guys and deflecting direct personal responsibility. I’m sure it’s no different here. His defense will be that it was all Cohen’s work and he had no knowledge of, or direct participation in the way the payments were made. But even if he is convicted, a former President is not going to be sent to prison for something like this.


Well, I think there was skepticism even this day would never come. Says something it did. I'll remain optimistic that this charge (or one of the others that is surely coming at this point) will do the trick.

The irony for me is that, out of self political interest, I don't even want him in jail. I think the Dems are in a much better position in every election (not just national elections) if he is the candidate in 2024. Still, I want the rule of law to prevail, and I hope it does here regardless of the political ramifications.


I want it all. I want him to run while under multiple indictments, lose to Biden, then go to jail.

(There won't be any trials before the election.)
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:48 pm    Post subject:

Whoa.

Quote:
Jack Holmes @jackholmes0

CNN's John Miller says Trump has been indicted on 34 counts
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:51 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Whoa.

Quote:
Jack Holmes @jackholmes0

CNN's John Miller says Trump has been indicted on 34 counts


Let’s hope they equate to prison time. Anytime would be great.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:55 pm    Post subject:

I was under the impression Bragg was dragging his feet because he didn't want to indict Trump. Now I believe he was getting all his duckies in a row. He probably has a strong case. Trump may be in deep doo-doo.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 3:56 pm    Post subject:

DeSantis allies are preparing to change the law in Florida that currently would force him to resign if he ran for another office.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:21 pm    Post subject:

Will Republican Politicians revolt and begin attacking America
They have some really horrible ones in positions of power
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:22 pm    Post subject:

MSNBC

(Trump on indictment: Democrats have ‘done the unthinkable’)

Quote:
In Donald Trump’s first public statement to the New York grand jury’s indictment, he slams Democrats for doing “the unthinkable,” and says they have “lied, cheated and stolen in their obsession to get Trump.”

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:27 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I read that the Secret Service will not allow Trump to be handcuffed.
Doubtful there will be any mugshots either


Good. That's exactly what we want. Those things would just provide fuel for the MAGAt's to further fan the flames of martyrdom.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:30 pm    Post subject:

CNN is reporting that Trump is expected to turn himself in on Tuesday.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:35 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
CNN is reporting that Trump is expected to turn himself in on Tuesday.
Wuz up with Tuesday?
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
32 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
MSNBC saying there are felony charges (per their contact at NYT).


That's great. I think he could get to 1-4 years in prison.


I doubt these charges result in prison time. Conviction itself is going to be hugely difficult. Trump has spent his lifetime insulating himself from culpability by setting up fall guys and deflecting direct personal responsibility. I’m sure it’s no different here. His defense will be that it was all Cohen’s work and he had no knowledge of, or direct participation in the way the payments were made. But even if he is convicted, a former President is not going to be sent to prison for something like this.


New York will send him to prison. Likely they will work something out with the DOJ to put him in Club Fed instead of Attica or Sing Sing.


Naw, doesn't matter what Bragg et al may want. No former President is going to prison over a financial crime . . . I guarantee it . . . Hell, no one will even arrest the guy for obvious treason.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:38 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Katie S. Phang @KatiePhang

NEW: "Former President Trump is expected to turn himself in on Tuesday for arraignment on the indictment in State Supreme Court in Manhattan, according to one of his lawyers, Susan R. Necheles."
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:45 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
32 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
MSNBC saying there are felony charges (per their contact at NYT).


That's great. I think he could get to 1-4 years in prison.


I doubt these charges result in prison time. Conviction itself is going to be hugely difficult. Trump has spent his lifetime insulating himself from culpability by setting up fall guys and deflecting direct personal responsibility. I’m sure it’s no different here. His defense will be that it was all Cohen’s work and he had no knowledge of, or direct participation in the way the payments were made. But even if he is convicted, a former President is not going to be sent to prison for something like this.


Well, I think there was skepticism even this day would never come. Says something it did. I'll remain optimistic that this charge (or one of the others that is surely coming at this point) will do the trick.


He may get convicted, but this particular crime is not going to land him prison. I'm skeptical much will come from the others, but if he ever lands in prison, it won't be because of this.

Quote:
The irony for me is that, out of self political interest, I don't even want him in jail. I think the Dems are in a much better position in every election (not just national elections) if he is the candidate in 2024. Still, I want the rule of law to prevail, and I hope it does here regardless of the political ramifications.


I agree on all counts; indicators are that an imprisoned Trump during the election cycle only boosts him (and doesn't prevent him from continuing to run). I certainly hope he ends up in prison eventually, it's not going to be over this.

But as you say, at least this is a step in the right direction and at least someone in our judicial system showed some actual fortitude and is attempting to do the right thing.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:45 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
32 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
MSNBC saying there are felony charges (per their contact at NYT).


That's great. I think he could get to 1-4 years in prison.


I doubt these charges result in prison time. Conviction itself is going to be hugely difficult. Trump has spent his lifetime insulating himself from culpability by setting up fall guys and deflecting direct personal responsibility. I’m sure it’s no different here. His defense will be that it was all Cohen’s work and he had no knowledge of, or direct participation in the way the payments were made. But even if he is convicted, a former President is not going to be sent to prison for something like this.


New York will send him to prison. Likely they will work something out with the DOJ to put him in Club Fed instead of Attica or Sing Sing.


Naw, doesn't matter what Bragg et al may want. No former President is going to prison over a financial crime . . . I guarantee it . . . Hell, no one will even arrest the guy for obvious treason.


OK Charles.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:53 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I read that the Secret Service will not allow Trump to be handcuffed.
Doubtful there will be any mugshots either


Good. That's exactly what we want. Those things would just provide fuel for the MAGAt's to further fan the flames of martyrdom.


Pragmatism arrgh

One side would jump for joy while the other made plans for revenge
Best not to incite them further if not necessary
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 4:59 pm    Post subject:

CNN

('They are in something of shock': Haberman on how Trump advisers are reacting)

Quote:
A grand jury in Manhattan has voted to indict Donald Trump, according to three sources familiar with the matter -- the first time in American history that a current or former president will face criminal charges. CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman explains how Trump's advisers are reacting.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Sources familiar with the investigation tell CBS tonight that Bragg has some documents that have been uncovered during the probe but are not yet known to the public/been reported, both financial records and communications between key figures… will use these as well as testimony


https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1641587401524150272?t=UzgOWlDgE_oDfLb2meaemQ&s=19
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:16 pm    Post subject:

It would make my month if Trump is subjected to a "Perp Walk."
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:19 pm    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Quote:
Sources familiar with the investigation tell CBS tonight that Bragg has some documents that have been uncovered during the probe but are not yet known to the public/been reported, both financial records and communications between key figures… will use these as well as testimony


https://twitter.com/costareports/status/1641587401524150272?t=UzgOWlDgE_oDfLb2meaemQ&s=19


He wouldn't be going forward with this if the publicly available evidence was all he had. I'm pretty sure he has a strong case.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:22 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
I read that the Secret Service will not allow Trump to be handcuffed.
Doubtful there will be any mugshots either


Good. That's exactly what we want. Those things would just provide fuel for the MAGAt's to further fan the flames of martyrdom.


Pragmatism arrgh


It's boring, for sure . . . but important.
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 5:56 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Robert Costa @costareports

Sources familiar with the investigation tell CBS tonight that Bragg has some documents that have been uncovered during the probe but are not yet known to the public/been reported, both financial records and communications between key figures… will use these as well as testimony


"Communications between key figures" is what jumped out at me.

For those assuming this is "only" a financial crime -- I'm not a lawyer but my simple understanding of these issues and speculation based on facts already in the public domain:

-One financial crime: maybe not too bad; a paper crime (paid Stormy Daniels and hid it)
-Two financial crimes of a similar nature: creates a pattern of behavior and state of mind, which points to more serious criminality (paid more than one woman for the same thing and hid it in a similar way)
-Two or more people coordinating to commit financial crimes of a similar nature together: that could be a criminal conspiracy which is much more serious. The fact that the underlying crime is "only" financial doesn't negate the conspiracy. If you have a recording, texts, emails or other proof of "communications between two key figures" then you could have proof of conspiracy.

David Pecker (National Enquirer) testified before the grand jury on Monday. Pecker and Michael Cohen (at Trump's behest) plotted to "catch and kill" stories that could hurt Trump leading up the 2016 election. The plot was to illegally help Trump win a close election by plotting to hide information from the public.

Again, we don't really know what the charge will be but I don't think we should automatically assume 36 charges are just nothing paper crimes either.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:07 pm    Post subject:

Funny music video.

Quote:
The Tonight Show @FallonTonight

Donald Trump: I’m So Indicted #FallonTonight



https://twitter.com/FallonTonight/status/1641579047971962880
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:19 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
32 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
MSNBC saying there are felony charges (per their contact at NYT).


That's great. I think he could get to 1-4 years in prison.


I doubt these charges result in prison time. Conviction itself is going to be hugely difficult. Trump has spent his lifetime insulating himself from culpability by setting up fall guys and deflecting direct personal responsibility. I’m sure it’s no different here. His defense will be that it was all Cohen’s work and he had no knowledge of, or direct participation in the way the payments were made. But even if he is convicted, a former President is not going to be sent to prison for something like this.


New York will send him to prison. Likely they will work something out with the DOJ to put him in Club Fed instead of Attica or Sing Sing.


Naw, doesn't matter what Bragg et al may want. No former President is going to prison over a financial crime . . . I guarantee it . . . Hell, no one will even arrest the guy for obvious treason.


Hey DMR! Let us have this! It's a good day!

I'm not saying you are wrong. But just for today, I'm gonna bask in the hope that nobody is above the law. Not even obese, Blonde wig-wearing, rage-inducing, criminal, ugly, diaper in tennis short wearing, deplorable, bigoted, stimulant-abusing, unqualified, proudfully-ignorant, disgusting millionaires.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:30 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Quote:
Robert Costa @costareports

Sources familiar with the investigation tell CBS tonight that Bragg has some documents that have been uncovered during the probe but are not yet known to the public/been reported, both financial records and communications between key figures… will use these as well as testimony


"Communications between key figures" is what jumped out at me.

For those assuming this is "only" a financial crime -- I'm not a lawyer but my simple understanding of these issues and speculation based on facts already in the public domain:

-One financial crime: maybe not too bad; a paper crime (paid Stormy Daniels and hid it)
-Two financial crimes of a similar nature: creates a pattern of behavior and state of mind, which points to more serious criminality (paid more than one woman for the same thing and hid it in a similar way)
-Two or more people coordinating to commit financial crimes of a similar nature together: that could be a criminal conspiracy which is much more serious. The fact that the underlying crime is "only" financial doesn't negate the conspiracy. If you have a recording, texts, emails or other proof of "communications between two key figures" then you could have proof of conspiracy.

David Pecker (National Enquirer) testified before the grand jury on Monday. Pecker and Michael Cohen (at Trump's behest) plotted to "catch and kill" stories that could hurt Trump leading up the 2016 election. The plot was to illegally help Trump win a close election by plotting to hide information from the public.

Again, we don't really know what the charge will be but I don't think we should automatically assume 36 charges are just nothing paper crimes either.


I say "financial" crime because that is the impetus of the crime. Whether it may involve a further conspiracy doesn't escalate things much. This is not a violent crime. It's a crime of conspiracy to commit fraud, regardless of context.

People have been "catching and killing" scandals involving candidates as long as there have been elections; that's a known given. It's part of the system, not just is this country, but in politics worldwide. That is by no means excusing it, it's just acknowledging the reality. The Billy Bush tapes came to light and they did nothing to prevent Trump winning the election. So it's not like the Daniels case is going to be something that makes our system say, "This guy has to go to prison", as unfortunate as that reality is.

Bottomline, regardless of the unknowns, unless they have video of Trump explicitly conspiring to physically harm Stormy Daniels if she doesn't keep quiet, he's not going to prison over the manner in which he tried to keep this story quiet.

If you wish to believe otherwise, more power to you. It's not like I don't want the guy to go to prison for a long, long time. I'm just being honest about the way out system works. . . or maybe more accurately, doesn't.

Hopefully Trump ends up in prison eventually. But this won't be what does it if that does come to fruition.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2023 6:52 pm    Post subject:

We don't know what the charges are yet. I don't. You don't.

Yes, odds are Trump probably won't do time on this one, but Michael Cohen already served jail time for this exact same crime. So it's not a 100% lock that Trump escapes completely.

And his CFO Alan Weisselberg is currently serving time for financial crimes. Trump Org was also convicted for financial crimes but Companies don't go to jail, only people do.

And Manafort served time for financial crimes and only got out because Trump pardoned him.
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