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eddiejonze
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Do it Mitch! wrote: | | Wilt wrote: | The Steele dossier was mostly used by talk show hosts to talk about golden showers.
As CL keeps pointing out, we literally have a Mueller Report that talks about the extent of the relationship between the Trump campaign and Russia, but the troll keeps bringing up the Steele dossier as if it's the Democratic Bible. |
The Steele dossier, which was funded by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign, is what was used to get a FISA warrant on the Trump administration. They used opposition research paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign to get a FISA warrant for the FBI to spy on the entire Trump campaign.
That is highly unethical.
The Mueller report established that there was no evidence of a Trump Russia conspiracy. It was a massive political gift to Donald Trump. The Mueller report, which people keep citing, was a massive dud. NBC news did a tracker, and reported that Mueller deflected, or declined to answer 198 times.
When Mueller appeared before the house intelligence committee, he seemed to be unaware of what was in his own report. When he was asked if he had found evidence if Trump conspired in the release of stolen emails by WikiLeaks, Mueller said that was “not in his purview”. when asked about the firm who produced the Steele reporting, he said that he was not familiar with the firm Fusion GPS. He was the head of the investigation, he was embarrassingly unfamiliar with major aspects of his own investigation. The Mueller investigation was a dud, and a massive disappointment to the Democrats. And anyone saying that it produced evidence of a Trump Russia connection, is straight up lying. |
I’m gonna do this move, called “republican whataboutism”…let see how I do:
For the first 234 years of the nation’s history, no American president or former president had ever been indicted. That changed this year. Former President Donald Trump has been charged in four criminal cases over a four-and-a-half-month span. In New York, he faces 34 felony counts in connection with hush money payments to a porn star. In Florida, he faces 40 felony counts for hoarding classified documents and impeding efforts to retrieve them. In Washington, D.C., he faces four felony counts for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. And in Georgia, he faces 13 felony counts for his election interference in that state. He was found liable of sexual abuse by a jury of his peers…
P.s. Mitch Kupchak is a democrat, Einstein.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:15 am Post subject: |
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It's not just the troll who believes this (bleep). In order to remain a member of the right-wing tribe they must fully submit and claim lies are truth and truth are lies. They must repeat the party line. People who still repeat the "Russia hoax" lie are either aware they are lying or they are deluded and believe the lie. So the troll is either a liar or delusional. Have a good day.
It’s not just ‘collusion’: GOP rejects basics of Trump/Russia scandal. Much of the GOP isn’t just contesting the idea of “collusion,” Republicans are also rejecting the idea that Russia attacked our elections to help Trump.
| Quote: | For those who work in the field of political commentary, angry responses from disagreeable readers are a standard part of the job. Some published pieces, however, generate stronger reactions than others.
I made the case yesterday that the House Republicans’ decision to censure Rep. Adam Schiff was indefensible: For all intents and purposes, the far-right GOP majority was formally punishing the California Democrat for having the audacity to tell Republicans inconvenient truths about the Trump/Russia scandal that the party didn’t want to hear.
To understate matters, I heard from a great many conservatives who disagreed. Indeed, I lost count of how many hysterical reactions I received from those who insisted, with varying degrees of vitriol, that the entire controversy was an elaborate “hoax.” For Schiff to have said otherwise, these readers asserted, made him a villain for the ages.
It was against this backdrop that I was reminded of a terrific analysis The Washington Post’s Philip Bump wrote this week:
There are few areas of the political conversation where the partisan divide is wider than on the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. Many Democrats think that Donald Trump actively worked with Russian interests to aid his victory that year. Republicans often accept Trump’s own framing: The whole thing was a hoax, top to bottom. The reality is unquestionably closer to the former.
While there’s overwhelming — and to date, uncontested — evidence documenting the connections between Team Trump and its Russian benefactors, much of the right is absolutely convinced that the scandal has been thoroughly discredited. It has not.
They don’t care.
As Bump’s analysis added, for many conservatives, “the very idea that Russia sought to aid Trump’s election is ridiculous — however well-documented and however obviously aligned with the country’s interest in dividing the United States. The idea that it was ever worth investigating whether Trump assisted that effort therefore attains a new level of ludicrousness.”
At this point, I’m going to skip the usual part of this debate. I’m not going to dwell on the fact that the core elements of the Trump/Russia scandal have not been discredited. I’m not going to remind readers about the overwhelming evidence. I’m not going to reiterate the fact that a Senate Intelligence Committee’s report — written in part by the panel’s then-Republican majority — at one point literally described a “direct tie between senior Trump Campaign officials and the Russian intelligence services.”
I am, however, going to raise a different kind of question: Just how much of the controversy do Republicans no longer believe?
The question is newly relevant because Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee released a video showing a variety of prominent Democrats talking about Russia trying to help elect Trump in 2016. For the panel’s GOP members, each of the featured Democratic claims should now be seen as a “lie.”
But as is always the case, the details matter. Each of the featured quotes were actually true, including the most basic claims: Viewers saw Hillary Clinton explain in August 2020, for example, that there’s “no question any longer the Russians actively interfered in our election to help Donald Trump. There is no hoax.”
Clinton was right, but congressional Republicans apparently now consider this a “lie.”
Taking a step back, let’s break down the broader controversy into a handful of component parts.
= Russia attacked our elections in order to help elect Trump.
= Team Trump consorted and conspired with Russia as part of the scheme.
= Team Trump lied about this and took steps to cover it up by obstructing investigations.
The evidence to support all three of these points is sound, as the Mueller report and the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report help prove. But in general, Republicans have nevertheless spent recent years rejecting #2 and #3.
This week, they’ve apparently rejected #1, too, which reflects a bizarre regression. It suggests much of the GOP isn’t just contesting the idea of “collusion,” Republicans are also comfortable denouncing the basics of the underlying attack itself.
In the immediate aftermath of the 2016, U.S. intelligence agencies treated the Russian attack on our elections as the most serious domestic security breach since 9/11. And yet, seven years later, at least some GOP officials are choosing not to believe this basic detail.
As Timothy Snyder, a historian at Yale, summarized yesterday, “Moscow worked hard to get Trump elected in 2016. Choosing not to know that is choosing not to care about political reality and national security.”
In 2016, then-CIA Director John Brennan warned Alexander Bortnikov, the director of Russia’s Federal Security Service, that Moscow had made an important mistake when it targeted U.S. elections.
“I said that all Americans, regardless of political affiliation or whom they might support in the election, cherish their ability to elect their own leaders without outside interference or disruption,” Brennan explained. “I said American voters would be outraged by any Russian attempt to interfere in election.”
I wish that were true. Too many Republicans suggested this week that it was not. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Alot of infighting between conservative public figures this week.
Watching Elon Musk, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson argue their antisemitic conservatism is superior to Ben Shapiro's racist conservatism is pretty wild.
You get arguments like, "well Jews supported BLM". And "all Muslims are dangerous and they are coming after Christians next".
The knots these people twist themselves into. To argue THEIR perspective is moral, true, logical.
For me it is pretty simple. Discrimination or unequal treatment based on religion, race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, etc. is stupid. No matter the case. And I'm against that.
I've been vocal in my opposition to the IDF's actions in Gaza. But Zionism isn't the same thing as Judaism. Jewish people don't "secretly control the world". Antisemitism and holocaust denial is and will continue to be a problem (mostly in the far right). And it needs to be addressed.
I guess my big takeaway is. Any far lefty (like myself), who struggles uniting with moderate liberals like Biden. They aren't watching enough of what Republican and conservative public figures and leaders are saying.
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Last edited by kikanga on Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am; edited 4 times in total |
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kikanga
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Trump's disdain for people of color is obvious. Just that alone should assure his defeat in 2024 but I wouldn't count on it. DJT is Aldoph Hitler and George Wallace wrapped in one package.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | I knew it was a bad idea, and yet I still did it.
Maybe if we say he's right about everything he'll stop? |
He's too Right.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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Wilt
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about you DMR, but I will log off for the evening and read my Steele Dossier full body tattoos instead.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | I don't know about you DMR, but I will log off for the evening and read my Steele Dossier full body tattoos instead. |
 As I do every evening.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
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40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
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40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
Huge and encouraging. Hopefully Hamas sticks to it.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
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40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
Huge and encouraging. Hopefully Hamas sticks to it. |
I hope all those who are displeased with the way Biden is handling the war will come to realize he knows what he's doing. Another hope, Israel will cease the killing of civilians as much as possible.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
·
40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:27 am Post subject: |
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^^ Key term tentative. I'm watching Velshi on MSNBC. The program is reporting the deal has not been finalized and could fall apart.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Do it Mitch!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Where do you read the bolded? I'm not saying you're lying. I just want to know your source(s). |
My sources are Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, Chris Hedges. People who tell the truth, not stenographers for the state department.
In 2014, the border skirmish between Russia and Ukraine broke out. Ukraine claimed Russians violently took over the Donbass in Ukraine. Russia claimed the Azoff Batalion was violently killing ethnic Russians, who had already lived in the Donbass. 14,000 Russians were killed.
In February 2022, Putin invaded eastern Ukraine to “protect Russian speakers from genocide at the hands of neo-Nazis“.
In March Russia offered a peace treaty, in which Ukraine gives up some land to Russia that was once Russian territory. President Zelenskyy agreed to the peace deal.
The US and UK government sent Boris Johnson, with promises of American weaponry, to pressure Zelenskyy to ditch peace talks with Russia. The Azoff Batalion threatened to hang Zelenskyy if he signed a peace deal. Ukraine pulled out of the peace treaty, and the war escalated.
Even though a 10-year-old could have told you Ukraine, a country of 37 million, would not beat Russia in a war, Biden administration and Congress sent $113 billion in aid to Ukraine. The 2019 New York Times “most corrupt country in Europe“.
3/5 of that budget for lethal war machinery. Some of which takes years of training to operate and coordinate.
In November 2023, after tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money removed from the United States treasury, and transferred to the military industrial complex. And after hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed, the United States asked Ukraine to begin to work with Russia on a peace treaty.
Russia now gets to negotiate the peace agreement on their terms. They will end up with more Ukrainian territory than before than if Ukraine had just agreed to the original piece deal in March 2022.
It was never even about winning the war. It was about transferring money from the US treasury into the pockets of the defense industry. |
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strong9
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
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40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
Huge and encouraging. Hopefully Hamas sticks to it. |
Hopefully Israel does too and doesn't move the goalposts and continue the systematic landgrab and ethnic cleansing.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Do it Mitch! wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Where do you read the bolded? I'm not saying you're lying. I just want to know your source(s). |
My sources are Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, Chris Hedges. People who tell the truth, not stenographers for the state department. |
Chris Hedges? The guy who worked for RT America, the global network based in Russia and funded by the Russian government?
Well, you’re right about one thing. He’s not a stenographer for the US state department He’s a shill for Russia’s.
For a guy who is trying to deny Russia’s misinformation campaign, you’re doing a lousy job if it.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
Last edited by DaMuleRules on Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| strong9 wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Victor Shi
@Victorshi2020
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40m
BREAKING: The Biden Administration has just reached a tentative deal between Israel & Hamas to stop ALL fighting for 5 days in order to free hostages & allow for humanitarian aid into Gaza. This is a big deal & is really great news. |
Huge and encouraging. Hopefully Hamas sticks to it. |
Hopefully Israel does too and doesn't move the goalposts and continue the systematic landgrab and ethnic cleansing. |
I’m not even remotely implying that Israel isn’t suspect in that regard. It’s simply that Israel would have far less wiggle room to violate the agreement. Hamas, doesn’t have to satisfy any external power.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: |
Trump's disdain for people of color is obvious. Just that alone should assure his defeat in 2024 but I wouldn't count on it. DJT is Aldoph Hitler and George Wallace wrapped in one package. |
Unfortunately, Trump has gained support among people of color going back to the last election. Hispanics have been creeping toward the GOP for some time now, and some black men, especially young black men, are starting to lean conservative.
I saw a poll or report that said young voters don't support Biden and are moving away from the Democratic party. That's even more concerning if true, because that encompasses all races.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Trump's disdain for people of color is obvious. Just that alone should assure his defeat in 2024 but I wouldn't count on it. DJT is Aldoph Hitler and George Wallace wrapped in one package. |
Unfortunately, Trump has gained support among people of color going back to the last election. Hispanics have been creeping toward the GOP for some time now, and some black men, especially young black men, are starting to lean conservative.
I saw a poll or report that said young voters don't support Biden and are moving away from the Democratic party. That's even more concerning if true, because that encompasses all races. |
I don't have a lot of faith in polls. The Black people I know won't vote for Trump. I think Trump will be his own undoing. His following is a small percentage of American voters. I think American voters will wake up, smell the coffee, and realize electing Trump will mean the dismantling of Democracy. Am I nervous, HELL YEAH!!
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America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Trump's disdain for people of color is obvious. Just that alone should assure his defeat in 2024 but I wouldn't count on it. DJT is Aldoph Hitler and George Wallace wrapped in one package. |
Unfortunately, Trump has gained support among people of color going back to the last election. Hispanics have been creeping toward the GOP for some time now, and some black men, especially young black men, are starting to lean conservative.
I saw a poll or report that said young voters don't support Biden and are moving away from the Democratic party. That's even more concerning if true, because that encompasses all races. |
It's a matter of perspective. AA voters, supported Biden over Trump 87% - 12% in 2020. https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020
Down a little from 2016. AA voters, supported Hilary over Trump 89% - 8%.
https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016
Similar trend for Hispanics. But instead of 9:1 Dem/Rep ratio for those elections. It's 2:1 Dem/Rep.
I expect the trends to continue in 2024. Hopefully though Biden will get even more of the female vote. Which could make up for that.
It really comes down to turnout. And even more specifically. Turnout in swing state cities.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: |
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AA women will vote for Biden, and so will their husbands. The couch gets cold and lumpy, especially in the winter. 
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Wilt
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Biden will end up winning the overwhelming majority of black voters, latino voters, and young voters. The percentages might be smaller than before, yes. So it will be about turning out your voters where it counts.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | jodeke wrote: |
Trump's disdain for people of color is obvious. Just that alone should assure his defeat in 2024 but I wouldn't count on it. DJT is Aldoph Hitler and George Wallace wrapped in one package. |
Unfortunately, Trump has gained support among people of color going back to the last election. Hispanics have been creeping toward the GOP for some time now, and some black men, especially young black men, are starting to lean conservative.
I saw a poll or report that said young voters don't support Biden and are moving away from the Democratic party. That's even more concerning if true, because that encompasses all races. |
Well there are young voters on the right who obviously don't support Biden but young voters on the left also dislike Biden. That doesn't mean they support Republicans but if disaffected they might not vote at all.
My biggest hope is this is just expressive responding, i.e. people dislike Biden/ are unhappy, but when push comes to shove, they won't support Trump once it becomes a choice between Trump/Biden instead of it simply being a referendum on Biden. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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As I stated earlier, Trump will be his own undoing. American voters don't want an autocracy. They will come to their senses when they realize that's what Trump offers.
The Hill
6 in 10 Trump voters say there’s a ‘chance’ they choose another candidate: Poll
Julia Manchester
Mon, November 20, 2023 at 8:49 AM PST·2 min read
LINK
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slavavov
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilt wrote: | | Biden will end up winning the overwhelming majority of black voters, latino voters, and young voters. The percentages might be smaller than before, yes. So it will be about turning out your voters where it counts. |
Black voters will definitely vote for Biden. As jodeke alluded to, AA women are very reliable and a bedrock of Democratic support. Hopefully AA men, especially young ones, will come to their senses and vote Democratic like they have in the past.
But Latino voters and young voters concern me. I support Biden even though he's too conservative for me, but Biden doesn't generate any excitement, especially on the left, and the concern about his age is real.
This year I talked to a good friend from high school and one of my cousins, both of whom are left-wing, about Biden. They both feel he's losing it — the friend called him "frail" and the cousin even accused Biden of having Alzheimers. Our side can definitely hold onto the WH, regain the House and hold onto the Senate next year, but we have a lot of work ahead of us, and the DNC needs to effectively campaign and message the right way for once.
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