OFFICIAL ROB PELINKA THREAD.
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manlisten
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:45 am    Post subject:

When you look at scouting reports of Bamba from college, he's been trending towards the downside of his potential from the beginning. In addition to him not showing much during his career he apparently has a solid relationship with Embiid and calls him a mentor. He's probably more comfortable in that situation if he's not guaranteed a significant role either way.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:06 am    Post subject:

AH also pointed out that he went to high school in Pennsylvania.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:46 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
AH also pointed out that he went to high school in Pennsylvania.


Bamba has been on the basketball circuit his whole life. He was raised in New York. He spent his first two HS years in New Hampshire. His second two HS years in Pennsylvania. His college years in Texas. As a pro, he's been in Orlando and Los Angeles. Anyone's guess whether he has any geographical allegiances that matter to him.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:05 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
Non-scientific take: but, but, whatever repetitive motions he was going through over the last couple years is what precipitated the injury, right? And what position did he repeatedly over these last couple years?

It’s repetitive, high impact biodynamics that lead to a an impingement if the navicular bone leading to a stress fracture. He had a bone spur that fractured off in that region as well, so it was definitely some elements of improper bone resorption due to repeated stress in that area of his foot.

Overpronation comes to mind and that’s where the foot at the ankle bends outward laterally while excessive weight bearing forces are applied medially. The biodynamics involved in that type of motion are sudden cuts made in change of direction motions (see cutting suddenly off a screen toward a rim run looking for the lob on a pick-n-roll on offense or playing weakside & falling asleep ball watching, but then making a sudden cut to find your man who slipped to the cup on defense), as well as planting one’s foot and standing flat footed bearing the weight of an external force (see bodying a post presence in the paint), as well as jumping and more importantly, landing in order to not roll your ankle (aka oversupination).

When it comes to AD’s running gait, here are the stats from last season for the distance he travels per game and at the velocity he travels at…needless to say, nothing really stands out.

Interestingly enough, for the 2021/22 season, he did travel the 2nd most distance per on defense in comparison to his other center cohorts.

But still, I believe the high incidence in navicular fractures that comes from sprinting, distance running & hurdling is due to the repetitive high impact motion that those type of athletes demonstrate. Sprinters run at high impact velocity during those races, which isn’t really comparable to what ball players really do on a nightly basis and in-season training. Long distance running, is much lower impact, but that repetitive nature is obviously for a much longer distance/duration. As for hurdlers, obviously they are the most synonymous with basketball players, but again I believe it’s the repetitive high impact landings (and not the manner in which they jump) that are most likely precipitates a stress injury. That’s where I’m looking at rim protection and feet entanglements upon landing as the main culprit. Then he likely goes right back up immediately after the attempted block shot, to then secure the defensive board.

And here are the stats to his drebs where he led the league in contested drebs (ie fighting other bigs for the board) and was second only to the Joker in the number of drebs he avg per.

Anyways all that is my roundabout way of saying, whatever the F he was doing these past couple years is what precipitated the injury. So he should probably position himself to limit those type of movements if possible. 😬


I think it's also possible that you are seeing it from him lately because he's getting older and accumulating mileage. Rest helps but it's not like the off-season resets that stress counter. In addition, there was some speculation from the doctors that the bone spur has been present since college based on some of its characteristics. If he really does have a predisposition for some reason, it's less important how many miles he travels relative to his peers and more so how many he travels moving forward. Although it is notable that he didn't seem to travel significantly more miles in the championship year he wasn't consistently tasked to defend wings.

I would imagine that jumping in traffic and avoiding awkward landings lends itself more to ankle/knee injuries than foot (specifically navicular) stress reactions. The key to stress injuries is not just repetitive but location-specific trauma. The variability by which you can jump and land is much more than by which you run forward.

Ultimately without having a formal degree in bio-mechanics or being a orthopedist/podiatrist, I won't claim to be an expert that can make a fully accurate assessment of your proposed bio-mechanism. Instead, I tend to be evidence-based.

Volleyball players, for instance, may have a tendency to develop stress fractures but they are not specific to the navicular bone as much as it is for runners. Same with dancers who develop stress fractures of any of the bones of the feet but again, not specific to the navicular bone.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8673581/

In terms of pushing off against big men, you might also consider wrestling and rugby (due to scrumming). From what I gather wrestlers are not at notably increased risk for navicular stress injuries. And as you noted, it's the landing impact and not the propelling motion that contributes to these injuries. The incidence in rugby players is not insignificant but that's largely confounding by the high amount of running/sprinting they also do. It should be noted that it is emerging in soccer players although the evidence remains inconsistent.


Damn, you coming for me off the top rope now?

Some types of WWrEstling involve some high impact landings, but unlike high flying NBA players, they mostly just ground and pound. Same with rugby players I imagine, although I don’t follow the sport like that.

Volleyball has many different pro leagues that involve different semi-malleable surfaces unlike the hardtop in pro bball.

And again, every athlete is built different. I’m assuming AD’s late growth spurt of over 8 inches factors into his bone turnover & adjoining musculature. His stress injury coukd be related to the natural added miles that come with age and wear&tear, but seeing how he is coming off that injury, you’d think taking off weight would help his rehab & prognosis. Instead from recent pictures and the way our roster has been constructed, it appears dude is putting on more weight to remain carrying the load at the C position.

I just don’t believe it’s the right approach as it pertains to his durability and our defensive potential.

Anyways, agree to disagree, but the repetitive biomechanics of planting your base in defending the opps, followed by high intensity jumps twice to attempt a blocked shot then a defensive rebound, which is then followed by going down court, planting your base again and maneuvering your way against the defender, this time on offense trying to explode up and over him for a shot attempt, followed by a possible offensive rebound attempt…all that on loop seems to have contributed some towards his recent stress injury. That’s the evidence I base my opinion on. But that’s just it…it’s my opinion and of course you got yours…and so far we’ve been successful at unsuccessfully convincing the other to see it the other way. Normally we tag team on topics/discussions, but fam, you backing me up against the edge giving me no choice but to turn heel and suplex yo ass 😜
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:12 pm    Post subject:

LOL I meant something like Olympic wrestling not WWE-style "pro" wrestling. But yeah all good for sure.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:17 am    Post subject:

Ya, I was just josh’n with ya fam. Thanks for taking the time out to approach this discussion with a civilized evidence-based retort. Although I do love to have a good time messing & being messed with folks that I have a good rapport with, I appreciate when the underlying topic is approached with respect for each perspective no matter how much one would disagree with it.

I want Rob to do well here, but the evidence I always go back to is he brought in a generational talent that obviously had major influence on personnel at his previous destinations. He was successful in positioning his teams to be a title contender year after year, till he got here. Titles are hard & you definitely need some luck. But I rather be placed in position to keep knocking until we get in, instead of being won&done. I’m happy we got to the WCF last year and that it was mostly competitive, but ain’t satisfied. Had we just 1 more needle mover, among the 5 newbies we brought in midseason, that would have made the difference…and even if we didn’t chip up, you made it in and are in position to run it back till ya knock that MFer down. With Bron & AD, you can’t straddle that line….you either go all-in or you retreat, regroup & fight for another day. We keep worrying about a tax, but in the process we taxed out our key players during this win-dow and as a result, they gas out before we can get to the big show. As a result we haven’t capitalized on our competitive advantage while we had it…and now that win-dow is nearly shut.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:05 am    Post subject:

Wood instead MoBa +; Wood’s versatility as C/PF, offensive production and prospective ability on defense…avg same blocks as MoBa with more mobility…makes Wood better but wanted both Wood/MoBa instead of Wood/Hayes.

Hayes instead of Weny +; not so much for individual productivity but because of a better fit since back up C needed more than back up PF, Hayes is 3inches taller and 15lbs heavier.

Prince instead of TBjr -; with the addition of Wood and loss of LWIV it would have been better to have a G/F like TBjr instead of a combo F like Prince. The Lakers already have enough capable PFs with 6 (LBJ/Rui/Vando/AD/Wood/Hayes) but could use another capable SG to have 5 (AR/Dlo/Cam/MaxC/TBjr) for a better balance than forcing TaP at the 2. TBjr was a significantly better rebounder, had a higher defensive rating, and shot 38% from 3pt with the Lakers which can be interpreted as better with less risk than Prince 38% 3pt shooting with another team. The Cost for TaP over TBj was half mil more and 6 years youth minus team continuity.

Cam instead of LWIV TBD; LWIV 3pt shooting, ability to fill in as starter, stay ready out of rotation, and step up his game for a win in 4th quarter of the post season may be a loss but Cam’s size and potential may turn out to be a worthwhile gamble with MaxC waiting in the wings for insurance if Cam fails to produce like LWIV. I preferred to sacrifice MaxL to keep Cam and LWIV.

Vinc instead of Shro TBD; Shro slightly better in reg season plus continuity, Vinc new so team chemistry has to be established but Vinc was significantly better in the post season, it might be close but I’d have to give the edge to a Vinc for youth and post season advantage. Overall TBD to see if post season advantage is realized.

Overall:
Wood upgrade over MoBa (wanted both by passing on Hayes)
Hayes upgrade over Weny
Prince downgrade over TBjr
Cam TBD LWIV (wanted both by selling 2ndRd pick MaxL)
Vinc TBD Shro (need to see Vinc in post season)

Not bad Rob. I would have preferred MoBa/TBjr/LWIV/Shro over Hayes/Princ/MaxL/Vinc but we’ll see if Pelinka’s moves may turn out better.
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Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:05 am; edited 9 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Great offseason. Very curious to see what happens in practice in the regular season, especially if Reddish or Hayes play up to their talent.

Need-wise, we could still use:
- An upgrade over DLO (namely, better defense without losing too much on offense)
- A 2-way center who can shoot and defend (Myles? lol)
- A wing stopper who can shoot

Vando could theoretically become the last one but it's unlikely.

The Lakers have a ton of depth, especially in the front court. I'm interested if Rob can consolidate that depth to improve one of the three bullet points listed above. Not really sure what players will end up on the trading block so I won't speculate o nit
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 11:32 am    Post subject:

Rob did a decent job this off season. He was likely restricted by ownership from going all in to reduce lux tax implications but did about as well as can be expected with the constraints. I preferred Shro/LW4/TBj over Vin/Cam/Prin but each may turn out to be better the way Rob planned it. Wood/Hayes over MoBa/Weny meh tho Hayes is starting to intrigue me!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2023 2:39 am    Post subject:

Hanging from Rafters wrote:
Rob did a decent job this off season. He was likely restricted by ownership from going all in to reduce lux tax implications but did about as well as can be expected with the constraints. I preferred Shro/LW4/TBj over Vin/Cam/Prin but each may turn out to be better the way Rob planned it. Wood/Hayes over MoBa/Weny meh tho Hayes is starting to intrigue me!


Decent job indeed, especially with likely tax limitation he might had.

- I'm neutral on Vincent over Shro signing but at least can understand the thought process there. Needed another guard that can help Lebron&AD with spacing and poa defense. We are going to miss Shroder's ball handling & grit & elite poa defense vs quick pgs during the course of regular season for sure. Hopefully, GV's playoff performance will offset his absence.

- I really wanted Yuta Watanabe(smart & elite catch & shooter at 6'9" who goes all out on defense as well) on longer contract over Prince, but Prince is looking very good with other boys. So not much to complain there. Just hoped that the contract was more than a year.

- Coming into a FA, I thought it was obvious that bringing in a bigman who can clean up the board and defend the paint was the most important priority.
Signing Wood and hays were really disappinting. Maybe taking a chance at one would have been fine. but taking on two reformation projects & hope for the best is not really inspiring move for a team that strive for a champion. To his credit, Hayes looks far better than what I expected thus far though.

- there are other minor complaints that really aren't make or break in all of our resignings & extention deals, but nothing too serious.

- don't like our picks other than castleton.



So, yeah. I think he did good overall.
Not out of ballpark good, but it's a hit with some x-factors that can change my opinion too.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:30 am    Post subject:

My biggest grip with Rob is player development.

I give him a slight pass cause Bron and Brow are in win now mode.

But I look around the league. Denver, Miami, Brooklyn, Golden State all have better player development staffs.
I get it's a tough ask. But you could have (1) win now and (2) player development at the same time.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:57 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
My biggest grip with Rob is player development.

I give him a slight pass cause Bron and Brow are in win now mode.

But I look around the league. Denver, Miami, Brooklyn, Golden State all have better player development staffs.
I get it's a tough ask. But you could have (1) win now and (2) player development at the same time.


I would put that on Jeanie more than on Rob. From what I have read and seen, we have a lean basketball ops compared to those other franchises.

Jeanie doesn’t sign off on that kind of investment. Some of it was also LeGM having the keys until they said no more after the Russ debacle. So even if we are going to the Dodger way now, it’s still going to take some time as before it was just let Magic/LeGM make all the decisions.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:08 am    Post subject:

Is our player development bad? Caruso, Reaves, maybe Max? Who knows how the current crop of rookies will play out too.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:12 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Some of it was also LeGM having the keys until they said no more after the Russ debacle. So even if we are going to the Dodger way now, it’s still going to take some time as before it was just let Magic/LeGM make all the decisions.


Are we still going with that rhetoric? If the Lakers lose in a playin game or are swept in the first round will we be back to blaming Lebron/Klutch? The fact is that Pelinka and Jeanie negotiated the Russ trade. It’s a very available public record.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:14 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Is our player development bad? Caruso, Reaves, maybe Max? Who knows how the current crop of rookies will play out too.


Yeah this is a weird criticism since we’ve traded away most of our picks and young assets.

We developed THT from a 2nd rd pick to someone worthy of getting a nice contract.

Player development looks fine. We just haven’t had the draft picks really. How many 1st rd picks have we kept during Pelinka’s tenure?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:18 am    Post subject:

THT never developed, he plateaued. And overpaying him isn’t the same as developing him. It’s only been a couple of games but Utah has him playing as an NBA starter. But otherwise I agree, they haven’t kept young players long enough to know if they can develop them or not.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:58 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Some of it was also LeGM having the keys until they said no more after the Russ debacle. So even if we are going to the Dodger way now, it’s still going to take some time as before it was just let Magic/LeGM make all the decisions.


Are we still going with that rhetoric? If the Lakers lose in a playin game or are swept in the first round will we be back to blaming Lebron/Klutch? The fact is that Pelinka and Jeanie negotiated the Russ trade. It’s a very available public record.


Keep believing that. LeGM and AD pumped their chest about getting Russ when it happened.

You forgot the Lebron “war room” already?

There has been a clear shift in the Lakers trades since last deadline. It’s easy to see what was LeGM vs. Pelinka/Buss bros. trades.

The only public part you are referring to is Jeanie talking to Ted Leonsis and Pelinka talking to their GM. You know…the “official” part of the trade. It was very clear LeGM was the one pulling the strings from Laker land and Russ pulling strings from DC.

Edit: I guess you also forgot the passive aggressive Lebron tweets and pressers when the decision making was taken out of his hands.

But no worries, I’m sure he will run Vegas franchise like Jordan ran Charlotte lol.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:19 am    Post subject:

You do realize that by painting Pelinka in that light you are admitting that he is a spineless GM? That is much worse than making a bad Westbrook trade.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:20 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Some of it was also LeGM having the keys until they said no more after the Russ debacle. So even if we are going to the Dodger way now, it’s still going to take some time as before it was just let Magic/LeGM make all the decisions.


Are we still going with that rhetoric? If the Lakers lose in a playin game or are swept in the first round will we be back to blaming Lebron/Klutch? The fact is that Pelinka and Jeanie negotiated the Russ trade. It’s a very available public record.


Keep believing that. LeGM and AD pumped their chest about getting Russ when it happened.

You forgot the Lebron “war room” already?

There has been a clear shift in the Lakers trades since last deadline. It’s easy to see what was LeGM vs. Pelinka/Buss bros. trades.

The only public part you are referring to is Jeanie talking to Ted Leonsis and Pelinka talking to their GM. You know…the “official” part of the trade. It was very clear LeGM was the one pulling the strings from Laker land and Russ pulling strings from DC.

Edit: I guess you also forgot the passive aggressive Lebron tweets and pressers when the decision making was taken out of his hands.

But no worries, I’m sure he will run Vegas franchise like Jordan ran Charlotte lol.


The LeGM narratives could be myth or not we don’t know. Some input by star players is appropriate. What we do know is that LBJ doesn’t have the authority to make a trade/signing so either way Rob/Jeanie had to sign off.

Also, LBJ (or LeGM if you will) went to 8 straight Championships before missing one then going to the 9th in 10 years to win a Ship with the Lakers. So even if LeGM, he’s performed exceptionally well in that role and should be cut some slack for the WB fiasco. I blame that failure on Rob/Jeanie as much as anyone else tho because Rob brought in 8 former over the hill Lakers in:
(Howard/Ariza/Ellington/Bazemore/DJAug/Bradley/Rondo/IT)

including 8 guards <= 6’4” (Monk/WB and no player between 6’4”-6’8”), plus Deandre Jordan. Rob cited justification with “it’s a guard driven league”.

That comical malpractice may have been more of a factor in the WB failure as anything else. Most of them never played in the NBA after that.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:09 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
You do realize that by painting Pelinka in that light you are admitting that he is a spineless GM? That is much worse than making a bad Westbrook trade.


Maybe he was spineless or maybe he was playing politics like he did with Magic.

Pelinka has been referred to as little finger on LG so no one is arguing that part.

It could be he was spineless or it could be that he did whatever it took for him to get into power. My own read on it is it’s the latter. He’s not stupid. Now the decision making is with him and the Buss bros. as Lebron finishes his Lakers tenure and gets his own franchise.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:04 am    Post subject:

Injuries are part of the game. But we've also lost our guard depth that Ham leaned heavily on. At one point he had Austin, DLO, Dennis, Walker, Beasley and Christie was our 6th option guard. Now with just 1 injury to Gabe, we're going to Christie.

When Pelinka built this current season roster, he stacked up the opposite way. A ton of forwards, especially 4s, and not enough guards to allow Ham to continue to run the same style of offense he had last season.

Obviously Gabe is out, but last year we had more than just 3 starting level guards. We had at one point Beasley and Walker, who easily could be given minutes at go off for 15-20. This just isn't happening with the likes of Christie. And Gabe, even when he played, he wasn't showing he's a scorer.

You look at our offense, despite having our top 4 offense players (AD, Bron, DLO, Austin) virtually all season (minus a bit of this past game) we're not scoring like we should.

As I said in the offseason, balance is everything. We're a deep team, and I expect us to be a top 4-5 playoff lock sort of team but I don't see Pelinka having built a balanced roster this offseason, and he's been getting all this credit as if he has done great. I continue to question whether Pelinka did the great job many were saying he did this past offseason.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:02 am    Post subject:

With the AD injury, Pelinka and Ham will be safe for this season. See you guys next year for another mediocre Laker team.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2023 5:30 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
With the AD injury, Pelinka and Ham will be safe for this season. See you guys next year for another mediocre Laker team.


What did Rob do bad, to say he's safe?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:16 pm    Post subject:

A little under a decade ago. During the Jeanie/Jim wars. I got banned more than once (justifiably). I was really passionate about some of our FO decisions. Jim was an idiot. And people complaining about Jeanie, are either spoiled or ignorant.

Nowadays. I'm not really passionate one way or another when judging the front office.
It's boring to say. But most President of BBall Ops/GMs fall in the middle. Not horrible, not transcendental. Just average-good given what they are working with.

I put Rob in that category. In terms of building the perfect roster around LBJ and AD, factoring in restrictions (salary, assets, player trade value). Rob is alright. You wanna give him somewhere between a B to C grade. I won't fight you.

An A or F grade needs a convincing argument to get me on board.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:57 pm    Post subject:

Kik, where do you think Rob can improve on to bring him to that 'A' grade.
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