OFFICIAL ROB PELINKA THREAD.

gng930 · Franchise Player Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11355

It will be interesting to see Wolf. My first reaction to our moves was that our regular season floor/ceiling was largely unchanged but that our playoff ceiling increased. I think you give more credit to Dennis as a playmaker than I do. I think there's a reason that he has struggled to gain traction as a starting PG. He remains a negative (though very slight at times) on offense per RAPTOR despite anchoring mostly 2nd units. To be fair though, that has been the case for Gabe as well. I do think Gabe has a bit more under his ceiling than Dennis though, especially as Dennis loses his speed advantage as he gets older.

I definitely don't want to downplay how much I appreciated Dennis at the same time. His availability is highly under-appreciated IMO. He had no business stepping back on the court after some of those ankle sprains which would have kept many out for weeks/months.
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LakersRGolden · Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:23 pm Post subject:

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

@wolf: Yeah, I thought we had bigger needs to address with the ntpMLE than with Gabe. Seems like Miami valued him at 8-9m per and since we offered more and Miami didn’t match, we got him. Gabe does make a lot more sense tho if we offload DLo, but as it stands, I think Gabe could take starter duties and assist Bron with playmaking while putting DLo more offball to play our starting SG. Gabe still provides better defense at the 1 and DLo hopefully utilized his length more at the 2.

I personally see Reaves as a super-sub in that case or even in the case of/when we offload DLo. He comes in and demonstrates why he is Him with everything running through his playmaking in leading that 2nd unit. Then dude is called upon to remain on the floor late in the 4th if the game is ever in doubt. I think dude is more than capable of heaving that type of role/responsibility. Gave could do it too, but I see Reaves more as that super-sub than anybody else on our roster.
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manlisten · Star Player Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 2853

^ What other players should the Lakers have signed with the MLE?
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dcarter4kobe · Franchise Player Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17458

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

^I’ve already addressed it when @ocho asked the same question a few pages back, so I hope you don’t mind if you go looking for it instead of me posting the same.

Also I placed a list of the avg starting annuals for dudes this year. You can also scrub through the prior years where as long as the contract is below 13m (which was the hypothetical PatBev 13m TPE we missed out on creating last trade deadline), that player who’s AAV is around & below 13m number could be traded into that TPE. Imho, we just chose not to take that route due to taxes (see not utilizing full ntpMLE w/Gabe’s deal here as well).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/sort-value/start-2023/limit-100/
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manlisten · Star Player Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 2853

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

^I mean if roster construction was to battle just Denver, you’d think we would need to do more than just Hayes & Wood on minimum deals to take on Joker, Gordon & Porter Jr. More than just Murray’s efficiency, that frontline was the primary problem in the WCF. Denver heavily invested in that frontline for a reason (ie they got Joker on a designated supermax, Porter Jr on a designated rookie max and Gordon on an annual on on little more than just half a max). AD can match Joker and do only so much in terms of covering team defense by himself. Bron provided 40 on loaded minutes in that decisive game 4 and still couldn’t get a shot up over Gordon on the final play. He’s gonna be a year older heading into the next postseason. What more can a 39y/o Bron & a couple extra inches from Vando do if all you added to date was Hayes?

And if Woods is the only addition, then subtract him from possible contributors in the postseason this year, since Ham clearly ain’t gonna play dudes that can’t provide a bit of 2way in their play, especially if they can’t provide next to nothing on D.

Schro got more total minutes than DLo did in the WCF and according to his postseason draptor rating, he was similar to Gabe in that regard (+1.2 vs +1.5), albeit a 5 game smaller sample than Gabe who made it to the NBA Finals.
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manlisten · Star Player Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 2853

Laker fans are insatiable for the most part. There would be grievances no matter what they did this offseason. Most people didn't like the offseason moves that resulted in a championship a few years ago and now they don't like that they haven't replicated those moves. There was all kind of complaining throughout all 6 of the last championship runs. They've had some decisions that were unequivocally bad in the past but i can't say that was the case this year. I think they did fine based on what was realistic and practical. It is what it is.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."

governator · Franchise Player Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 23766

3-5

MPJ-Gordon-KCP (man that’s elite, all lottery picks level)

V

DLo-Reaves-Rui (with a training camp)
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vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

manlisten · Star Player Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 2853

Championship
Potentially deep run cut short by injury
Westbrook and $45M tax
WCF
Brought back the same WCF core

It is what it is.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points."

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

Brought back the same WCF core that got swept…the same playoff core that went .500 in their 16 playoff games…. against a Memphis team that wasnt fully loaded and even a Dubs team that had Wiggins return just in time, but possibly not in game shape. We were one 15 point comeback vs the Wolves in the play-in away from facing Denver in the 1st round as the 8th seed.

Meanwhile the title contending teams (regardless of market) will remain spending (dubs, Suns, Bucks, cbags, 6ers, Heat, Nugs), while we remain huddled up with noncontenders and/or small market teams (ie variance of 5m in active cap in comparison with other franchises = Pels, Bulls, Raps, Wolves, Cavs, Mavs, Knicks).

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/

Yep, it is what it is…
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manlisten · Star Player Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 2853

You got it man.
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vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

^Well all that matters is what Rob got…an extension and imho, that right there is bad business!
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ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 52443

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

^Imagine getting off your lawn, or is it my lawn…anyways change up your outlook & get off Lan’s Jock, uh Rob’s jock haha

You’ll even admit you ain’t his biggest fan, yet you coming in & defending his roster construct. Maybe Skywalker & his game 4 heroics made a believer out of you.

Anyways…my Turn. Imagine had we done the trade deadline the right way…check that, we do the 2022 offseason the right way…then maybe that scheduled presser doesn’t get canceled, the trade goes thru and we get a whole year of AD stretching his postseason myles by not stress’n about playing the 5 all that much during the regular season. We probably earn a better seed and duck Denver for the most part…but if it’s meant to be that we meet in the WCF again, our investment in “that” frontline probably leads to a better return vs theirs. Also in this scenario, DLo, Beas & Vando ain’t played off the damn floor.

So maybe stop centering your full attention on your lawn with all this backwards thought…think fourward and maybe that ADds to your perception some. But seeing who you are, maybe you’re too focused to that side of the ball wanting #3 to get buckets like a shooting guard playing at the 5 to fulfill his inner Mamba…but that’s just half of it dude Ɛ3 24 😜
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ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 52443

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

^Didnt get the fourward reference…

Btw Landale didn’t get the full MLE…he got 8m per and other than this year, his 3 years remaining are fully nonguaranteed.

Coulda gave Prince his deal for longer than a year with the remaining and saved the BAE for next summer when you can actually use it as a functional TPE as part of the new trade rules in the CBA. Now we just don’t have that resource outright next summer.

Also Mo would be their 3rd stringer and possibly their 2nd stringer if Reed is used as a trade chip later in the year paired with the Trez injury I’m sure you know about after posting it.

But you right…let’s look forward….what’s relevant in terms of AD is his health. We just locked him up for 5 years and dude just turned 30. And since this is Rob’s thread, it’s relevant that he says something and does quite the other. Don’t act like you haven’t seen the quotes already…but I can bring them all back to the fourfront if need be.
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ocho · Retired Number Joined: 24 May 2005 Posts: 52443

vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

Rob traded for Mo right...knowing that he could cost them 10.3m the following year if retained.

Anyways, I wanted to retain Mo to see mo run with AD...you know, at least have a look at it, before pulling the plug. If he didn't work out, we cut him and his proration would have paid him about 5m. Again, these taxes added to his salary, isn't based entirely on his salary alone, no matter how much you want to inflate their cost.

My point remains that all we have is Hayes on the vet min to help shoulder the load for AD at the C for the remainder of the season.

If that was the plan set forth by our GM..it wasn't a very good one imho.
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gng930 · Franchise Player Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11355

No doubt it's a glaring need. Let me ask though:

1) In a vacuum, how would your rank these contracts/players in terms of value: Gabe @ 10.5, Mo @ 10.3, Jock @ 8.

2) Do you acknowledge we needed another 2-way closer at guard?
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vasashi17+ · Star Player Joined: 13 Dec 2019 Posts: 5420

I value AD’s health/durability. If he is to remain a center bring him some Jrue, CamJs & OG types on the perimeter. If you can’t, bring him a capable starting center or a platoon of high burst low minute centers that could cover the spot by committee.

I would swap out Mo’s 10.3m with Prince’s 4.5m deal and retain that BAE to use next summer as a potential TPE. Imho using it on a 1yr stopgap deal is a waste cause now you don’t have it as a resource next year in case Prince is a flight risk and can’t be retain on a 120% nonbird deal.

So without Prince, I feel Vando & Cam found still hold the wing depth down and help matchup still against smaller faster wings, leaving the bulkier, lengthy ones for Bron & Rui. Also if no Prince at BAE, then possibly Derrick Jones Jr on the vet min instead???

As for the money, Spotrac has us at a team salary of 164.7m in terms of hardcap math at the 1st apron (w/ 845k unlikely incentives towards DLo/Vando accounted for. So if we swap out Mo’s deal for Prince’s deal we looking at a team salary of 170.5m on a 172.35m hardcap apron.

But that 14th roster add at 2m puts us over by about 150k. Had we negotiated the player option out of either Cam or Hayes vet min deal, we could gain enough wiggle to still remain under the apron, but as it stands in this scenario with our current predicament in ducking the tax, we would need to offload some form salary still this season.

However, dumping salary in the name of taxes is something I can’t stomach. If however we were dumping salary to remain under the apron, that’s something that’s far more palatable for me.

Anyways there was a path way in retaining Mo and getting a guard with 2way potential like Gabe. But as you know, we just didn’t want to pay the tax.

Now with all due respect, I don’t know how many more other ways you want me to break down my stance on this very simple matter. Helping dude stay on the court during the most important times of the calendar and file sling a roster that helps exploit his true super power on defense is what I’m most interested in having the FO do. Imho, they haven’t come close to do that with this unit.
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LakerDYnasty72 · Star Player Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Posts: 4483

gng930 · Franchise Player Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11355

C'mon V, we go back and forth but it's never my intent to beef with you. If you're going to reiterate your anti-Rob stance in multiple threads you should be prepared to defend yourself and yes, sometimes deal with redundancy.

I think most reasonable GMs would take Prince at 4.5m over Mo at 10+m. And I know you think it's not fair to pin it all him but in your scenario, the luxury tax would absolutely be a direct effect of retaining Mo. And there's a lot to be said about maximizing value, maintaining flexibility under the apron, while also addressing a need (even if it's not the most crucial one in your eyes) that is a 2-way wing. I know you presented some alternatives but a knock against Rob that has been presented here is the need to rely on players to do what they historically haven't. Meanwhile, Vando has never demonstrated a reliable jump-shot, Cam hasn't been in a regular rotation for two years, and Mo was 4th string center on a lottery team. You want to trust these guys to protect your investment?

Also, let's say a team wants to unload salary later and/or engage with us on a deal. Wouldn't Prince + hard-cap space + 200% matching ability serve us better than Mo with virtually zero hard-cap flexibility? Or what if we want to sign a player later on the buyout market? Or god forbid replace someone with a season-ending injury? Can we even do that in your scenario without some panic cap maneuvering? Otherwise, I'm all about squeezing everything under that hard cap with the right player(s). Mo hasn't shown he's that guy but I think we're set up better to get that guy if the opportunity presents itself.
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