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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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When you look at scouting reports of Bamba from college, he's been trending towards the downside of his potential from the beginning. In addition to him not showing much during his career he apparently has a solid relationship with Embiid and calls him a mentor. He's probably more comfortable in that situation if he's not guaranteed a significant role either way.
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11355
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:06 am Post subject: |
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AH also pointed out that he went to high school in Pennsylvania.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | AH also pointed out that he went to high school in Pennsylvania. |
Bamba has been on the basketball circuit his whole life. He was raised in New York. He spent his first two HS years in New Hampshire. His second two HS years in Pennsylvania. His college years in Texas. As a pro, he's been in Orlando and Los Angeles. Anyone's guess whether he has any geographical allegiances that matter to him. |
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5420
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Non-scientific take: but, but, whatever repetitive motions he was going through over the last couple years is what precipitated the injury, right? And what position did he repeatedly over these last couple years? 
It’s repetitive, high impact biodynamics that lead to a an impingement if the navicular bone leading to a stress fracture. He had a bone spur that fractured off in that region as well, so it was definitely some elements of improper bone resorption due to repeated stress in that area of his foot.
Overpronation comes to mind and that’s where the foot at the ankle bends outward laterally while excessive weight bearing forces are applied medially. The biodynamics involved in that type of motion are sudden cuts made in change of direction motions (see cutting suddenly off a screen toward a rim run looking for the lob on a pick-n-roll on offense or playing weakside & falling asleep ball watching, but then making a sudden cut to find your man who slipped to the cup on defense), as well as planting one’s foot and standing flat footed bearing the weight of an external force (see bodying a post presence in the paint), as well as jumping and more importantly, landing in order to not roll your ankle (aka oversupination).
When it comes to AD’s running gait, here are the stats from last season for the distance he travels per game and at the velocity he travels at…needless to say, nothing really stands out.
Interestingly enough, for the 2021/22 season, he did travel the 2nd most distance per on defense in comparison to his other center cohorts.
But still, I believe the high incidence in navicular fractures that comes from sprinting, distance running & hurdling is due to the repetitive high impact motion that those type of athletes demonstrate. Sprinters run at high impact velocity during those races, which isn’t really comparable to what ball players really do on a nightly basis and in-season training. Long distance running, is much lower impact, but that repetitive nature is obviously for a much longer distance/duration. As for hurdlers, obviously they are the most synonymous with basketball players, but again I believe it’s the repetitive high impact landings (and not the manner in which they jump) that are most likely precipitates a stress injury. That’s where I’m looking at rim protection and feet entanglements upon landing as the main culprit. Then he likely goes right back up immediately after the attempted block shot, to then secure the defensive board.
And here are the stats to his drebs where he led the league in contested drebs (ie fighting other bigs for the board) and was second only to the Joker in the number of drebs he avg per.
Anyways all that is my roundabout way of saying, whatever the F he was doing these past couple years is what precipitated the injury. So he should probably position himself to limit those type of movements if possible. 😬 |
I think it's also possible that you are seeing it from him lately because he's getting older and accumulating mileage. Rest helps but it's not like the off-season resets that stress counter. In addition, there was some speculation from the doctors that the bone spur has been present since college based on some of its characteristics. If he really does have a predisposition for some reason, it's less important how many miles he travels relative to his peers and more so how many he travels moving forward. Although it is notable that he didn't seem to travel significantly more miles in the championship year he wasn't consistently tasked to defend wings.
I would imagine that jumping in traffic and avoiding awkward landings lends itself more to ankle/knee injuries than foot (specifically navicular) stress reactions. The key to stress injuries is not just repetitive but location-specific trauma. The variability by which you can jump and land is much more than by which you run forward.
Ultimately without having a formal degree in bio-mechanics or being a orthopedist/podiatrist, I won't claim to be an expert that can make a fully accurate assessment of your proposed bio-mechanism. Instead, I tend to be evidence-based.
Volleyball players, for instance, may have a tendency to develop stress fractures but they are not specific to the navicular bone as much as it is for runners. Same with dancers who develop stress fractures of any of the bones of the feet but again, not specific to the navicular bone.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8673581/
In terms of pushing off against big men, you might also consider wrestling and rugby (due to scrumming). From what I gather wrestlers are not at notably increased risk for navicular stress injuries. And as you noted, it's the landing impact and not the propelling motion that contributes to these injuries. The incidence in rugby players is not insignificant but that's largely confounding by the high amount of running/sprinting they also do. It should be noted that it is emerging in soccer players although the evidence remains inconsistent. |
Damn, you coming for me off the top rope now?
Some types of WWrEstling involve some high impact landings, but unlike high flying NBA players, they mostly just ground and pound. Same with rugby players I imagine, although I don’t follow the sport like that.
Volleyball has many different pro leagues that involve different semi-malleable surfaces unlike the hardtop in pro bball.
And again, every athlete is built different. I’m assuming AD’s late growth spurt of over 8 inches factors into his bone turnover & adjoining musculature. His stress injury coukd be related to the natural added miles that come with age and wear&tear, but seeing how he is coming off that injury, you’d think taking off weight would help his rehab & prognosis. Instead from recent pictures and the way our roster has been constructed, it appears dude is putting on more weight to remain carrying the load at the C position.
I just don’t believe it’s the right approach as it pertains to his durability and our defensive potential.
Anyways, agree to disagree, but the repetitive biomechanics of planting your base in defending the opps, followed by high intensity jumps twice to attempt a blocked shot then a defensive rebound, which is then followed by going down court, planting your base again and maneuvering your way against the defender, this time on offense trying to explode up and over him for a shot attempt, followed by a possible offensive rebound attempt…all that on loop seems to have contributed some towards his recent stress injury. That’s the evidence I base my opinion on. But that’s just it…it’s my opinion and of course you got yours…and so far we’ve been successful at unsuccessfully convincing the other to see it the other way. Normally we tag team on topics/discussions, but fam, you backing me up against the edge giving me no choice but to turn heel and suplex yo ass 😜
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11355
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| Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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LOL I meant something like Olympic wrestling not WWE-style "pro" wrestling. But yeah all good for sure.
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vasashi17+
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Joined: 13 Dec 2019
Posts: 5420
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Ya, I was just josh’n with ya fam. Thanks for taking the time out to approach this discussion with a civilized evidence-based retort. Although I do love to have a good time messing & being messed with folks that I have a good rapport with, I appreciate when the underlying topic is approached with respect for each perspective no matter how much one would disagree with it.
I want Rob to do well here, but the evidence I always go back to is he brought in a generational talent that obviously had major influence on personnel at his previous destinations. He was successful in positioning his teams to be a title contender year after year, till he got here. Titles are hard & you definitely need some luck. But I rather be placed in position to keep knocking until we get in, instead of being won&done. I’m happy we got to the WCF last year and that it was mostly competitive, but ain’t satisfied. Had we just 1 more needle mover, among the 5 newbies we brought in midseason, that would have made the difference…and even if we didn’t chip up, you made it in and are in position to run it back till ya knock that MFer down. With Bron & AD, you can’t straddle that line….you either go all-in or you retreat, regroup & fight for another day. We keep worrying about a tax, but in the process we taxed out our key players during this win-dow and as a result, they gas out before we can get to the big show. As a result we haven’t capitalized on our competitive advantage while we had it…and now that win-dow is nearly shut.
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 3478
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Hayes instead of Weny + (not so much for individual productivity but because of a better fit since back up C needed more than back up PF, Hayes is 3inches taller and 15lbs heavier).
Prince instead of TBjr - (with the addition of Wood and loss of LWIV it would have been better to have a G/F like TBjr instead of a combo F like Prince with LBJ/Rui/Vando/AD/Wood/Hayes at PF and LBJ/Rui/Vando/Cam/(TBjrorPrince) at SF. We would then have more depth all around with AR/Dlo/Cam/MaxC/TBjr at SG. TBjr significantly better rebounder, higher defensive rating last year and shot 38% from 3pt with the Lakers which can be interpreted as better with less risk than Prince 38% 3pt with another team. Cost was half mil more and 6 years youth minus team continuity)
Cam instead of LWIV even (LWIV 3pt shooting, ability to fill in as starter, stay ready out of rotation, and step up his game for a win in 4th quarter of the post season may be a loss but Cam’s size and potential may turn out to be a worthwhile gamble with MaxC waiting in the wings for insurance if Cam fails to produce like LWIV).
Vinc instead of Shro + (Shro slightly better in reg season plus continuity, Vinc new so team chemistry has to be established but Vinc was significantly better in the post season, it might be close but I’d have to give the edge to a Vinc for youth and post season advantage).
Overall:
Hayes upgrade over Weny
Prince downgrade over TBjr
Cam TBD over LWIV
Vinc upgrade over Shro
Upgraded Roster.
Plus Wood!!! Not bad Rob. I would have preferred MoBa/TBjr/LWIV over Hayes/Princ/MaxL but Pelinka’s moves may turn out better.
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17078
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Great offseason. Very curious to see what happens in practice in the regular season, especially if Reddish or Hayes play up to their talent.
Need-wise, we could still use:
- An upgrade over DLO (namely, better defense without losing too much on offense)
- A 2-way center who can shoot and defend (Myles? lol)
- A wing stopper who can shoot
Vando could theoretically become the last one but it's unlikely.
The Lakers have a ton of depth, especially in the front court. I'm interested if Rob can consolidate that depth to improve one of the three bullet points listed above. Not really sure what players will end up on the trading block so I won't speculate o nit |
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