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1995Lakers
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 Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | Theseus wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Theseus wrote: | | Easily the GOAT. This is the hill I will die on |
Whats your parameters? |
Consistent excellence. Success as a focal point of a team. Comparing teams played with versus teams played against (which of course includes coaching). Play on both sides of the court. Leadership, which is probably the most difficult to quantify but not too difficult to argue for Lebron's favor. We can talk about individual ability to play basketball but that gets into weird areas. |
A veil has been lifted as a ground breaking threshold has been breeched.
The current and consistent exceptional quality of play over the years now means…imo…that the longevity of Lebron’s career can no longer be used as a factor to argue against the GOAT status. In fact, not only has the length of time become an accolade for Lebron, the 2 year hiatus and much shorter length of his career now stands as a detriment against MJ’s status for GOAT comparatively since the time and continually just doesn’t measure up.
I still say MJ was the best for a period of time. But the acronym has an “A” in it that stand for “All”. That now…Greatest of ALL time…is Lebron James. That realization is likely gonna cause a bigger divide in the USA society than a certain upcoming political event lol! |
Had Mike stayed those two years, it would be very interesting to see how it would have played out. Lets not forget how dangerously close to Game 7 the Bulls were against Phoenix in 1993 and Game 7 would have been played in Phoenix - still would have given the advantage to the Bulls but still.
The 1994 and 1995 Rockets would have been their hardest test amongst any of the finals opponents they faced off. A veteran team who matched up well with them with just as much (and likely even more) clutch and mentally tough players than Chicago (Olajuwon, Thorpe, Horry, Elie, Maxwell and Cassell all big moments/clutch players) who would have absolutely owned the paint in a matchup with Chicago (the interior defense of Olajuwon, Thorpe and Horry) to essentially negate the inside presence of Horace Grant. Olajuwon is the only alpha player Jordan would have faced in the finals that was 1. not intimidated by him 2. would have matched his production and impact on the game. Had the Bulls lost in 1994, Horace Grant is leaving Chicago and the 1994/1995 season would have played out exactly as it did in real life with Jordan's "rust" replaced with his "tiredness" from playing in June for so long with the same issue of Chicago being bullied inside by the Magic and Horace Grant destroying Chicago with mid range jumpers when Phil Jackson left him open. Had Chicago won in 1994, then Chicago makes the finals in 1995 with Horace Grant staying and a rematch with Houston with Drexler instead of Thorpe and the Rockets playing at an even higher level than they did the year before with Olajuwon and Drexler supremely motivated. I think 1994 is a 60-40 situation for the Bulls but 1995 is 60-40 advantage for the Rockets had the Bulls faced them then. |
That’s “what if” thread material lol! Tho I agree with the assessment. It would have been interesting.
However, “What is” forms the focus of the GOAT debates and I’ve now switched parties. MJ was the greatest player for a time, that run of 6 titles in 8 years was phenomenal, but Lebron’s run over 20 years now eclipses anything else considering all time.
There could be a greatest for a minute, a quarter, a season, our very own Kobe (RIP Mamba, you are missed bro) probably has the greatest for a game. MJ has the status of greatest for a period of time. The Greatest of All Time title now tho…not what if…belongs to Lebron James imo. |
Cant disagree here. Nobody in NBA history could get hotter than Kobe while being a true triple threat - this excludes a guy like Klay Thompson from this picture who has no business being here. Definitely MJ had the status of greatest for a period of time and you could even make the same argument for Shaquille O'Neal in a hypothetical who would you choose first for your team assuming everyone is at their peak and hyper motivated. Have nothing against Lebron being crowned as the best either. As a player, in a matchup with the great Kobe Bryant, I thought Bron had begun to surpass Kobe as a player starting from the 2008/2009 season but thankfully Mamba was more mentally equipped/mature/motivated at the time to win the ring than Bron. At this point, it was right to still consider Kobe the best player on the planet for what he did in June and not just regular season. Where I thought Bron really surpassed Mamba was 2010/2011 where despite Bron's failure vs Dallas, Mamba no longer could claim to be a champion with the sweep by Dallas but there were still some lingering signs of Kobe's mental superiority over Bron like when Bron passed off to Deron Williams than challenge Kobe mano-e-mano at the final moments of the all star game. Where I knew for sure Bron surpassed Kobe was 2012 Olympics after Bron won his first title and he really claimed the Olympic team as HIS team and he no longer seemed to be plagued by doubts over whether he was or wasnt better than Kobe - I think by then he knew himself he was better. |
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Dominic1981
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Joined: 09 Feb 2022
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Im a Federer fan who always rooted for him against Nadal and Djokovic.....no way in hell was he better than Djokovic. Federer in 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon played at close to damn near his peak level with even more motivation/momentum to win than Djokovic both years. Federer was peaking at the right time both times he met Novak those years with his semifinals vs Murray arguably being his most complete match ever. Both matches vs Djokovic, he was the lesser player and especially in 2014, he threw everything and the kitchen sink at Djokovic. Djokovic throughout the course of that match, you could tell was slightly better. In fact, it was these two matches that told me in my gut who was better between Roger and Novak. Roger just didnt have the power to hit through and bully peak Novak to counter his own weakness in rallies with Novak with the backhand. |
Federer at his peak (04-07) was far better than Novak ever was. If Fed, Novak, and Nadal were all born in 1981, Novak would have won a max of 15 slams. Max. Probably less. He’s won 12 slams after 30 precisely bc Federer is almost 6 years older than him. Once Fed got too old, and Nadal got too old outside of Clay, Novak has ran up the slam count because nobody born in the 1990s ended up being an ATG of tennis.
Novak is the greatest physical fitness guru at his age. I really doubt anyone ever wins 12 slams again over 30. It’s incredible he’s still competitive at this age but he’s getting to that age now that Fed was at the end where he can be competitive (W 2019) but isn’t what he once was and there’s younger guys better (in Fed’s case it was Novak/Rafa) and now in Djokovic case it’s Alcaraz.
I think Novak and Lebron are very similar in racking up achievements at very old ages. But for me, it doesn’t change my opinions of them at their peaks. I will always see Fed as the greatest on grass, and Rafa obviously the greatest on Clay, Novak was just sort of there. All around good player but his style of tennis wasn’t for me (he’s the king of pushing and waiting for errors, relies on superior physical fitness). Lebron is built like a tank and relies on physicality. For me MJ and Fed were far more artistic athlete. More dynamic skill levels than just brute force |
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Dominic1981
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Why is his run with the Lakers underwhelming? He won the championship for the Lakers team that had a 20.7% winrate (17-65) 4 years earlier at the old age of 35!!! Then Pelinka tore up the championship team the very next season and so the Lakers couldn't repeat. Lebron also got "hill'd" the following season.
If Lebron and AD was healthy in 2021, then we could have repeated.
In 2023 and 2024, we had Bron and AD healthy so if DLo didn't choke in the playoffs, then we could have won more championships.
Bottom line is there's so many things going into winning a championship such as health and luck. MJ and Pippen were very healthy for most of their championship runs and they also have a competent supporting cast and a legendary headcoach.
If you're going to measure greatness with championships won then Bill Russell, who had won 11 championships, would be the GOAT then. |
Yeah, context matters. LeBron didn't get to enjoy the great front offices and rosters some other stars have.
He had to leave CLE just to get a better co-star than Mo Williams.
The Heat were dealing with a clearly declining Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh before he left.
Kyrie forced his way out and K-Love was declining before he left CLE the 2nd time. The next 2 biggest stars of his generation teamed up alongside 2 high-level all-stars.
LeBron has had to deal with a lot of mess since coming to LA, as he's starting to decline.
I don't think any other star could've done better than him under those circumstances. |
Seriously? He was at the forefront of Klutch running things in Cleveland and here in LA. That’s his own call. He’s had every front office bow down to him except Miami where ironically he has his most success.
Lebron has had really easiest career of anyone. Hardly any injuries as well even at 40 and playing in the league for 20 years |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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^^^ Easiest career because of hardly any injuries? 21 years of consistent play… Training, mindset, focus, discipline, determination and mental preparation. Those alone, Nothing about them are easy.
Never heard that before… |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | ^^^ Easiest career because of hardly any injuries? 21 years of consistent play… Training, mindset, focus, discipline, determination and mental preparation. Those alone, Nothing about them are easy.
Never heard that before… |
Imagine being top of your craft for over two decades and an internet poster saying you've had the easiest career. It wouldn't even be worth dignifying with a response. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2024 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Dominic1981 wrote: | | 1995Lakers wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Im a Federer fan who always rooted for him against Nadal and Djokovic.....no way in hell was he better than Djokovic. Federer in 2014 and 2015 Wimbledon played at close to damn near his peak level with even more motivation/momentum to win than Djokovic both years. Federer was peaking at the right time both times he met Novak those years with his semifinals vs Murray arguably being his most complete match ever. Both matches vs Djokovic, he was the lesser player and especially in 2014, he threw everything and the kitchen sink at Djokovic. Djokovic throughout the course of that match, you could tell was slightly better. In fact, it was these two matches that told me in my gut who was better between Roger and Novak. Roger just didnt have the power to hit through and bully peak Novak to counter his own weakness in rallies with Novak with the backhand. |
Federer at his peak (04-07) was far better than Novak ever was. If Fed, Novak, and Nadal were all born in 1981, Novak would have won a max of 15 slams. Max. Probably less. He’s won 12 slams after 30 precisely bc Federer is almost 6 years older than him. Once Fed got too old, and Nadal got too old outside of Clay, Novak has ran up the slam count because nobody born in the 1990s ended up being an ATG of tennis.
Novak is the greatest physical fitness guru at his age. I really doubt anyone ever wins 12 slams again over 30. It’s incredible he’s still competitive at this age but he’s getting to that age now that Fed was at the end where he can be competitive (W 2019) but isn’t what he once was and there’s younger guys better (in Fed’s case it was Novak/Rafa) and now in Djokovic case it’s Alcaraz.
I think Novak and Lebron are very similar in racking up achievements at very old ages. But for me, it doesn’t change my opinions of them at their peaks. I will always see Fed as the greatest on grass, and Rafa obviously the greatest on Clay, Novak was just sort of there. All around good player but his style of tennis wasn’t for me (he’s the king of pushing and waiting for errors, relies on superior physical fitness). Lebron is built like a tank and relies on physicality. For me MJ and Fed were far more artistic athlete. More dynamic skill levels than just brute force |
Counter point would be Roger didn’t face a prime Djokovic and Nadal on 04-07, this is the issue, if MJ and lebron are in the same era, then it is easy to make a comparison (like Mj and Dexter), but since they are not, it is basically all objective. |
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Dominic1981
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | ^^^ Easiest career because of hardly any injuries? 21 years of consistent play… Training, mindset, focus, discipline, determination and mental preparation. Those alone, Nothing about them are easy.
Never heard that before… |
Yeah. Most athletes retire bc of injuries. Only the luckiest escape the injury bug. Look at Kobe. Even Tom Brady missed a season with an ACL. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Dominic1981 wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | ^^^ Easiest career because of hardly any injuries? 21 years of consistent play… Training, mindset, focus, discipline, determination and mental preparation. Those alone, Nothing about them are easy.
Never heard that before… |
Yeah. Most athletes retire bc of injuries. Only the luckiest escape the injury bug. Look at Kobe. Even Tom Brady missed a season with an ACL. |
He might be lucky, but nothing about playing that long consistently is easy. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:46 am Post subject: |
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I heard on a Lakersnation video that there was some controversy with LeBron getting the MVP over Steph. The accumulative stats are here:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/usa-basketball-cumulative-box-score-stats-olympics/43c40517a8b36f7309322255
Not even that close by my logic.
LeBron was second in scoring with 14.2 PPG (Steph 14.8) while having the best shooting percentage (66%--which is pretty good I'd say) on the team. He led the team in rebounds and assists, and was tied for second in steals.
This is at 40 and among the best in the world, including two others that are at or near the top 10 all time.
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levon
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | I heard on a Lakersnation video that there was some controversy with LeBron getting the MVP over Steph. The accumulative stats are here:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/usa-basketball-cumulative-box-score-stats-olympics/43c40517a8b36f7309322255
Not even that close by my logic.
LeBron was second in scoring with 14.2 PPG (Steph 14.8) while having the best shooting percentage (66%--which is pretty good I'd say) on the team. He led the team in rebounds and assists, and was tied for second in steals.
This is at 40 and among the best in the world, including two others that are at or near the top 10 all time. |
At the very worst he was the second best player in the Olympics behind Jokic. Which is about what I'd expect from him for short spans of competitive basketball (remember when he put up a completely unforeseen statline against New Orleans in the in-season tournament?)
The 22 10 8 version of LeBron with neutral-to-good defense isn't enough to win a titke unless you have that consistent third scorer who can get his own, though. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | I heard on a Lakersnation video that there was some controversy with LeBron getting the MVP over Steph. The accumulative stats are here:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/usa-basketball-cumulative-box-score-stats-olympics/43c40517a8b36f7309322255
Not even that close by my logic.
LeBron was second in scoring with 14.2 PPG (Steph 14.8) while having the best shooting percentage (66%--which is pretty good I'd say) on the team. He led the team in rebounds and assists, and was tied for second in steals.
This is at 40 and among the best in the world, including two others that are at or near the top 10 all time. |
At the very worst he was the second best player in the Olympics behind Jokic. Which is about what I'd expect from him for short spans of competitive basketball (remember when he put up a completely unforeseen statline against New Orleans in the in-season tournament?)
The 22 10 8 version of LeBron with neutral-to-good defense isn't enough to win a titke unless you have that consistent third scorer who can get his own, though. |
It is hard to disagree with your first point, though I don't know Jokic's numbers. It is even harder to disagree with your second. LeBron's salary, relative to winning, is a bit much; relative to attendance, goodwill and whatnot, I guess only Jeanie can answer.
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"A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Brawn13
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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This Olympics has shown he’s still one of the best players. People whine about him on here but still, the only players u could replace Lebron with as the offensive engine of our team and we get BETTER, are Luka and Jokic. That’s it.
I’m praying that sum of our parts are better than we’ve shown under Ham. We’ll see… |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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There’s a big difference between playing 82 games and 6 games. The NBA season is where Lebron looks 40.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There’s a big difference between playing 82 games and 6 games. The NBA season is where Lebron looks 40. |
At 40 LBJ is still better than 90% of the players in the league. |
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MookieBetts50
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Joined: 22 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There’s a big difference between playing 82 games and 6 games. The NBA season is where Lebron looks 40. |
At 40 LBJ is still better than 90% of the players in the league. |
VCF just hating cos Da King give Kawhi the boot off Team USA and no medal.😭 😜 |
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Lakeshow23_
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Dominic1981 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Why is his run with the Lakers underwhelming? |
I don’t value the bubble title. Means nothing to me. I do value it as an elite season tho. So that’s 1 elite season out of 6. That ain’t good enough for me. I have much higher standards than that.
37-45
52-19
42-30
33-49
43-39
47-35
Thats a whole lot of meh. |
How many players had elite seasons after their 17th season?
Last edited by Lakeshow23_ on Mon Aug 12, 2024 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 12843
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Japago wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Why is his run with the Lakers underwhelming? He won the championship for the Lakers team that had a 20.7% winrate (17-65) 4 years earlier at the old age of 35!!! Then Pelinka tore up the championship team the very next season and so the Lakers couldn't repeat. Lebron also got "hill'd" the following season.
If Lebron and AD was healthy in 2021, then we could have repeated.
In 2023 and 2024, we had Bron and AD healthy so if DLo didn't choke in the playoffs, then we could have won more championships.
Bottom line is there's so many things going into winning a championship such as health and luck. MJ and Pippen were very healthy for most of their championship runs and they also have a competent supporting cast and a legendary headcoach.
If you're going to measure greatness with championships won then Bill Russell, who had won 11 championships, would be the GOAT then. |
Yeah, context matters. LeBron didn't get to enjoy the great front offices and rosters some other stars have.
He had to leave CLE just to get a better co-star than Mo Williams.
The Heat were dealing with a clearly declining Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh before he left.
Kyrie forced his way out and K-Love was declining before he left CLE the 2nd time. The next 2 biggest stars of his generation teamed up alongside 2 high-level all-stars.
LeBron has had to deal with a lot of mess since coming to LA, as he's starting to decline.
I don't think any other star could've done better than him under those circumstances. |
I thought he left Miami because of the backlash that he was receiving for forming a superteam, similar to why KD left the Warriors. If Lebron had stayed with DWade and Bosh in Miami, I think they would have won at least two more championships. But then people would just roll their eyes at him and say "whatever". So if Lebron was really after MJ's 6 championships, then he would have stayed in Miami for sure.
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mixtim
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Serial MVP Awards thief
Nothing new to see here |
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Dominic1981
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Joined: 09 Feb 2022
Posts: 1471
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | The Lebron Stans are always loudest in the off-season. His run with the Lakers has been underwhelming to say the least and only 1 title in all his years in Cleveland is also evidence he’s not the greatest.
Reminds me of Novak Djokovic fans claiming that because you stick around long enough, you are the greatest. Nah. At Novak’s peak, 2 other guys were clearly better. And at Lebron’s peak, there’s several others better.
Greatness is subjective obviously. But I look at it like a beauty pageant. There’s a reason 18-25 year old women are winning them, and no one over 30 is even considered. It’s how great you were, at your greatest. That’s MJ followed by Wilt. All others are a level below |
Why is his run with the Lakers underwhelming? |
I don’t value the bubble title. Means nothing to me. I do value it as an elite season tho. So that’s 1 elite season out of 6. That ain’t good enough for me. I have much higher standards than that.
37-45
52-19
42-30
33-49
43-39
47-35
Thats a whole lot of meh. |
How many players had elite seasons after their 17th seasons? |
Very few. Lebron is great “for his age”. No doubt. But I’m saying the Lakers franchise success has been underwhelming while he’s been part of the organization. For the precise reason you listed. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23981
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | There’s a big difference between playing 82 games and 6 games. The NBA season is where Lebron looks 40. |
At 40 LBJ is still better than 90% of the players in the league. |
VCF just hating cos Da King give Kawhi the boot off Team USA and no medal.😭 😜 |
Kawhi looked at Tatum and probably said “damn, I could do that and get a medal?” |
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Batguano
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Posts: 2363
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | I thought he left Miami because of the backlash that he was receiving for forming a superteam, similar to why KD left the Warriors. If Lebron had stayed with DWade and Bosh in Miami, I think they would have won at least two more championships. But then people would just roll their eyes at him and say "whatever". So if Lebron was really after MJ's 6 championships, then he would have stayed in Miami for sure. |
Don’t kid yourself. LeBron left Miami because he saw the writing on the wall with Wade struggling with age and injuries the last season he was there. In Cleveland he saw the opportunity to build another potential “Superteam” with Kyrie already in place and the #1 pick in a hyped Wiggins that they could flip for Kevin Love. He essentially traded Wade/Bosh for a younger version which would give him a bigger championship window. Most people glossed over that because they focused on the hype of his “fairytale” homecoming.
Remember those Heatles got destroyed by record margins by the Spurs in the 2014 Finals with Wade looking rather old and worn down. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18995
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| for once I entirely agree with Batguano |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 11679
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Wade was straight-up bad those last two years. In hindsight, Bron winning in 2013 was an impressive accomplishment. Ginobili and Kawhi definitely choked in that Game 6 though.
Bron did jump ship to Cleveland to form another superteam, and the narrative didn't reflect that enough. That's why I was rooting for the upstart Warriors to beat him every year. But 2016 happened and all of that went out the window. That one is, at worst, a top 5 title of all time IMO. It was so seismic that the Warriors had to recruit the second/third best player in the league to beat LeBron. |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 7792
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| Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2024 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | Wade was straight-up bad those last two years. In hindsight, Bron winning in 2013 was an impressive accomplishment. Ginobili and Kawhi definitely choked in that Game 6 though.
Bron did jump ship to Cleveland to form another superteam, and the narrative didn't reflect that enough. That's why I was rooting for the upstart Warriors to beat him every year. But 2016 happened and all of that went out the window. That one is, at worst, a top 5 title of all time IMO. It was so seismic that the Warriors had to recruit the second/third best player in the league to beat LeBron. |
I really don’t blame him for living Cleveland, I think not many people would have cared if he just joined Wade or Bosh. I think he tried to get them to join him, but neither of those guys want to move to Cleveland. Even after he left Miami, I thought I felt like they should have kept Wiggins instead of trading for Love. But Cavs could have really built a dynasty if they drafted better. But despite having 4-5 top 4 picks they still effed it up and missed. Thats all before Lebron went back.
2011 -Kyrie #1 / Tristan #4
Missed - Jonas #5/Klay #11  /Morris Twins/Kawhi #15 /Vucevic #16
2012 - Waiters #4 WTH 
Missed - Lillard #6 /Barnes #7/Drummond #9
2013 - Anthony Bennett Holy Crap!
Missed - Oladipo #2/OPJ #2/Pope #8/McCollum #10/Adams #12/Giannis #15 - Actually a deep draft if revisited.
2014 - Wiggins #1 traded for Love
Picks After - Embiid #3 /Gordon #4/Smart #16/Lavine #13
Imagine if Cavs hit on 3-4 of those picks.
If it wasn’t for KD, and Kyrie/Love both hurt in 2015. Lebron probably sitting at 6-7 titles by now. |
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