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22
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17119
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 Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dominator wrote: | | He's ducking Knecht |
THIS. |
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KingKobe20
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 19530
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I’m glad Bron sat out.
Been saying for months I hope LeBron and AD sit out ASW
Anyways New game tourney format trash asf |
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TMG
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 10513
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| 10/10 move from Lebron to (bleep) out this joke of an event. |
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TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9447
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| To put in perspective how long LeBron has been a Laker, he joined in the same year Luka was drafted to the Mavs. Wild. |
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TMG
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 10513
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| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2025 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers#1Team wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Lebron now a 7 time Laker all-star
To put that in perspective:
Shaq was an all star Laker 7 times.
He's been with the Lakers now almost 7 full seasons.
Shaq was a Laker for 8 seasons.
Pau was with us 2008-2014, for less than 6 full seasons.
Crazy how long Lebron has lasted a Laker, and at a higher level than anyone not named Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Kareem.
When he signed in 2018, I thought it was a good short term move for 4 years. No way I thought he would play at this level for us for so long. Crazy as it sounds it's ended up being a longterm move signing LBJ in 2018. He may end up being an all star 2 more full seasons. |
Using PER (recognizing it is not perfect, and it that rewards bigs, but that I'm a fan of efficiency), comparing these players as Lakers (also recognizing that when they played as a Laker is relevant), first, regular season, then, post season:
Magic: 24.1/23.0
Kareem: 23.4/22.0
West: 22.9/23.1
Shaq: 28.9/28.7
Kobe: 22.9/22.4
Gasol: 21.4/20.5
LeBron: 24.6/25.9
Davis: 27.4/26.6 (which certainly weakens the use of PER)
One could argue that only Shaq and Davis (???) exceeds LeBron as a Laker. Oh, I know this will rile some, and we know who they are, but here, I'm just reporting. And yes, there is a reason for showing them in this order. |
He hasn't been a better Laker than Kobe, Magic, Kareem or West. But I guess that's the response you were fishing for when you threw the bait out. By your criteria then AD has been a better Laker than LeBron, right...? Keep counting box-scores, chico. While the rest of us count rings. But hey, I'm just reporting here...  |
The rest of you can then, by your own definition, rank Bill Russell number one and followed by Sam Jones, Tommy Heihsohn, KC Jones, Satch Sanders, John Havlicek, Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey, Robert Horry and a bunch tied for 10th. (And every one of these players are better than Karl Malone or Charles.) If you are a Celtics fan, then I guess I can understand this way of thinking. |
lets compare fishers career as a laker to brons- Who had bigger moments? More clutch moments? More rings? A big chunk of brons numbers came when he was given the keys early, then when he jumped to another mans team with 2 top 5 picks from his same draft ( still choked and cramped out of a game in the finals),jumped back to the team that drafted him (his best ring).
as 99.999% of the people say the game is different - comparing eras on stats is impossible- can only compare rings if eras are the baseline for comparison. but facts are Fishers/worthy/pau all were better lakers than bron- but as a journeyman- bouncing around to 4 stops accumulating stats not specific to the lakers then bron has them beat.
Take away everyone's non-lakers years and just compare their lakers years- who's are you taking. |
This is some terrible hating BS. I really hate how fans sugar coat players when strolling down memory lane. I hated Derek Fisher, and many here did too. My memory of Fisher is so good, I even remember Chick Hearn calling him Dexter Fisher. Remember "Shaq/Kobe and the Merry Men of minimum? That was dubbed by Cuban, but it was pretty accurate to what many, even around LG, felt. But they hit some "clutch" shots and now these crappy role players are better Lakers than Lebron. LOL! That is absurdly comical. I explained and reasoned back then that Horry, Shaw, Fish, Fox got to be clutch because they were the same crappy players for the first 42 minutes. With better role players, we wouldn't have so many nail biting games. Their terrible play partly was why they had opportunities to hit "clutch" shots. You are nothing but a hater if you rank any of our role players as greater Lakers than Lebron. |
Agreed. Halflife is consistently the ultimate Lebron hater. He grabs for arguments that are way out of reach. Lol. I didn't like Lebron early in his career but he has aged like fine wine and I love all players who put on the purple and gold. I loved AD on the Lakers but don't care for him much now. But some posters have their own personal agendas to protect. |
This is the same guy who wanted lebron gone 5 minutes after the luka game. |
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governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 27422
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | To put in perspective how long LeBron has been a Laker, he joined in the same year Luka was drafted to the Mavs. Wild. |
His draft class is going into HOF this year lol
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22943
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | To put in perspective how long LeBron has been a Laker, he joined in the same year Luka was drafted to the Mavs. Wild. |
Absolutely crazy. |
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Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 20231
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| TMG wrote: | | 10/10 move from Lebron to (bleep) out this joke of an event. |
He has been the architect of this league since 2016. - there are clips of players begging/yelling at him to shoot at the ASG - He was frightened of the slam dunk contest and like some have said before- him being scared of entering made it ok for others.
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ribeye
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 13966
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | ribeye wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Lebron now a 7 time Laker all-star
To put that in perspective:
Shaq was an all star Laker 7 times.
He's been with the Lakers now almost 7 full seasons.
Shaq was a Laker for 8 seasons.
Pau was with us 2008-2014, for less than 6 full seasons.
Crazy how long Lebron has lasted a Laker, and at a higher level than anyone not named Kobe, Magic, Shaq, Kareem.
When he signed in 2018, I thought it was a good short term move for 4 years. No way I thought he would play at this level for us for so long. Crazy as it sounds it's ended up being a longterm move signing LBJ in 2018. He may end up being an all star 2 more full seasons. |
Using PER (recognizing it is not perfect, and it that rewards bigs, but that I'm a fan of efficiency), comparing these players as Lakers (also recognizing that when they played as a Laker is relevant), first, regular season, then, post season:
Magic: 24.1/23.0
Kareem: 23.4/22.0
West: 22.9/23.1
Shaq: 28.9/28.7
Kobe: 22.9/22.4
Gasol: 21.4/20.5
LeBron: 24.6/25.9
Davis: 27.4/26.6 (which certainly weakens the use of PER)
One could argue that only Shaq and Davis (???) exceeds LeBron as a Laker. Oh, I know this will rile some, and we know who they are, but here, I'm just reporting. And yes, there is a reason for showing them in this order. |
He hasn't been a better Laker than Kobe, Magic, Kareem or West. But I guess that's the response you were fishing for when you threw the bait out. By your criteria then AD has been a better Laker than LeBron, right...? Keep counting box-scores, chico. While the rest of us count rings. But hey, I'm just reporting here... |
The rest of you can then, by your own definition, rank Bill Russell number one and followed by Sam Jones, Tommy Heihsohn, KC Jones, Satch Sanders, John Havlicek, Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey, Robert Horry and a bunch tied for 10th. (And every one of these players are better than Karl Malone or Charles.) If you are a Celtics fan, then I guess I can understand this way of thinking. |
Using the cliche/tired Horry argument should count as an automatic L in the argument. |
I guess you didn't really mean it when you said,
| Quote: | | While the rest of us count rings. |
But I see now that we must agree about using rings (solely), that includes Horry among the many, is just silly for individual achievement. (Whew! I thought for a moment you were going to argue for that the, generally, mediocre Eli for HOF entry because his team of 40 some players, including defensive and special teams players, won two championships.)
Now I wonder if we agree that using championships for team achievement is an even better argument. |
Stop being obtuse. Nobody said that rings was the ONLY criteria. That's just how you deliberately misinterpreted my words so that you can feel superior and "win" the argument.
Robert Horry is a roleplayer and his rings should be given the proper weight based on his contribution. We were talking about all-time Laker greats/HOFs in your silly comparison. Also, it's extremely disingenuous on your part to use LeBron's PER from 7 seasons and compare it to Kobe's 20 seasons. |
With your first post, after reading your exact words, I didn't realize I needed to be a mind reader to know what you really meant. So I acknowledged you didn't really mean what you said. From that, you said I'm being obtuse, which seems like you don't know what the word means. You felt a need to counter my statement, especially when I used several qualifiers, that was not meant to be some ultimate statement, that was clearly not meant to be an argument that I had to win, and maybe if you were more clear and used a qualifier yourself, that would be that. But, instead, you had to to be blunt and careless, as though, since you feel you you have the better argument, that was all that was needed, and then with the lame ass criticism.
You then go on to say I'm being disingenuous when comparing Kobe to LeBron. Please learn to read and comprehend . As one of my qualifiers, I said "also recognizing that when they played as a Laker is relevant." Also, note that I did not single Horry out; he was one of many with many rings, and you singled him out.
So, after all this, perhaps you can explain exactly what you meant. Since YOU brought it up, what is your definition of greatness and how do rings specifically relate? Since we now know it is not rings alone, is it HOF'ers and rings, is it some arbitrary selection and rings, or what? By just about any definition that has "and rings" will have to put Bill Russell as the greatest ever. I do think this is an argument, but I don't thing this is the best argument.
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Hey Doge, ever hear of “measure twice, cut once?” It is not cut first and measure later. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8784
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Brawn13 wrote: | | PenG_ wrote: | | Looks pretty lame to do that right before the game |
He said woke up and still didn’t feel right even though he was hoping he would be. Kinda worried a little, this isn’t a game he’d miss unless he absolutely had to. Hes played the past few all star games a bit gimpy but still suited up. |
By not playing, he didn't get blamed for being the face of a garbage product where nobody gives sincere effort.
I'm told repeatedly that Lebron plays chess, (thinking ahead?) while everyone else plays checkers. Is there any reason to believe he didn't know players wouldn’t give their best efforts, like we've seen in the recent past? Would he want his name associated with the garbage the NBA presented yesterday? |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8784
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | This is the same injury from when Solomon Hill decided to dive into his ankle a few years ago right? Seems like a constant thing he has to manage ever since then. |
Well, he's 40, so.....yeah |
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jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 71768
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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The knock on Bron not playing in the All Star Game is not that he didn't play but the way he went about it. He waited until the 11th hour and there was no time for a replacement. He deprived a player like Norman Powell who's playing great ball the chance to compete. He showed up in street clothes for a photo-op.
Fans react to how LeBron handled not playing in the All Star Game
LINK
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be
because we destroyed ourselves. |
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TheBlackMamba
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9447
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't really get the fake outrage over not allowing an injury replacement to compete in a game that people are complaining about anyway as being the most noncompetitive event in pro sports. The idea of injury replacements is stupid anyway, and dilutes the honor/importance of being named an All-Star to begin with. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 145601
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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LeBron is getting shredded on social media, apparently some people do care about the all star game.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 18169
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LeBron is getting shredded on social media, apparently some people do care about the all star game. |
Lebron always gets shredded on SM.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 14805
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LeBron is getting shredded on social media, apparently some people do care about the all star game. |
People care about shredding LeBron on social media. Very few of those people actually watched the game(s), or watch any games for that matter. |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 29930
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LeBron is getting shredded on social media, apparently some people do care about the all star game. |
Good. The way he did it as well at the very last moment which means they had no time to replace him with someone whom was there and could have gotten an opportunity in his spot. He should be. he instigated the idea of not competing in the all-star game, as well as not doing the dunk contest.
When Dr. J and other legends come talk to you before the game about competing, and then when they leave you side eye them all and disrespect all they say to get everyone else to follow you in not competing in the all-star game, you set a precedent. And the precedent he sets is not competing. Last time he "competed" in an all-star game, Kobe blocked his stuff and he was about to start ranting after the game during the interview before catching himself. That's his mentality.
It also doesn't help that right after you don't play cause 'ankle discomfort' you post a video of you working out no less than 24 hours later with your ankle looking just fine.
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strong9
Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 3937
Location: so many places
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Meh, Lebron doesn't really care so shred away. His sitting out help the Lakers so I am happy. Could he have handled it better, though? Sure. |
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 4342
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
When Dr. J and other legends come talk to you before the game about competing, and then when they leave you side eye them all and disrespect all they say to get everyone else to follow you in not competing in the all-star game, you set a precedent.
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Riveting fan fiction.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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miggz23
Star Player
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9207
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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There was an Allstar game this past weekend… I dont think anyone gave 2 crap about it.
Me and my co-worker hate the new format anyways.
Lebron was selected fairly. How the hell is he robbing someone’s spot? |
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 4342
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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LeBron could fart on a plane and some people would claim it as a terrorist threat. Anthony Edwards sat out this weekend while being 20 years younger. You wouldn't even know. Nobody really gives a damn other than fake outrage and righteousness.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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TMG
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 10513
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | TMG wrote: | | 10/10 move from Lebron to (bleep) out this joke of an event. |
He has been the architect of this league since 2016. - there are clips of players begging/yelling at him to shoot at the ASG - He was frightened of the slam dunk contest and like some have said before- him being scared of entering made it ok for others. |
We get it Lebron is basketball hitler. Everything bad thats happened in the NBA is the result of Lebron James at the helm. Nevermind these people are grown ass men capable of making their own choices.
Looking forward to the trial in Haag. |
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TMG
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 10513
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | The knock on Bron not playing in the All Star Game is not that he didn't play but the way he went about it. He waited until the 11th hour and there was no time for a replacement. He deprived a player like Norman Powell who's playing great ball the chance to compete. He showed up in street clothes for a photo-op.
Fans react to how LeBron handled not playing in the All Star Game
LINK |
Thats funny. So why weren't there any criticism towards Antman? He was worse. Peple didn't even know he was out until they played and he wasn't out there. |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4096
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| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2025 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| typical Lebron tactics. Nothing new. |
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Batguano
Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2422
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| Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2025 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | With your first post, after reading your exact words, I didn't realize I needed to be a mind reader to know what you really meant. So I acknowledged you didn't really mean what you said. From that, you said I'm being obtuse, which seems like you don't know what the word means. You felt a need to counter my statement, especially when I used several qualifiers, that was not meant to be some ultimate statement, that was clearly not meant to be an argument that I had to win, and maybe if you were more clear and used a qualifier yourself, that would be that. But, instead, you had to to be blunt and careless, as though, since you feel you you have the better argument, that was all that was needed, and then with the lame ass criticism.
You then go on to say I'm being disingenuous when comparing Kobe to LeBron. Please learn to read and comprehend . As one of my qualifiers, I said "also recognizing that when they played as a Laker is relevant." Also, note that I did not single Horry out; he was one of many with many rings, and you singled him out.
So, after all this, perhaps you can explain exactly what you meant. Since YOU brought it up, what is your definition of greatness and how do rings specifically relate? Since we now know it is not rings alone, is it HOF'ers and rings, is it some arbitrary selection and rings, or what? By just about any definition that has "and rings" will have to put Bill Russell as the greatest ever. I do think this is an argument, but I don't thing this is the best argument. |
Jesus you're so incredibly condescending and insufferable. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you since it's clear you were craving attention from your initial post and I was silly enough to give you exactly what you wanted. Grown man policing other grown men's personal ranking of entertainment sports.
But to answer your question my criteria for greatness takes EVERYTHING into consideration: stats, skills, championships, accolades, intangibles, longevity, eras, defensive rules, memorable moments/performances, cultural relevance/impact, the opinion of other players and coaches, degree of difficulty but MOST IMPORTANTLY...CONTEXT. Which is what your original post (and most of your arguments) are severely lacking. |
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