Haywood was kicked off of the 79-80 team before the playoffs because of his cocaine habit (he wasn't the only one, but he was the fall guy). IIRC, he also plotted to have Lakers coach Paul Westhead killed, so his omission is understandable!
McAdoo, however, was a great contributor and I don't think we win in '82 without him. Our big FA signing (Mitch Kupchak) tore up his knee and there was nothing behind KAJ at C. We traded for McAdoo and the Laker bench instantly became (in the words of noted hater Brent Musberger) "better than any starting 5 in the league except Boston's.." We'd have won in 83 except McAdoo & Worthy got hurt in the playoffs.
Richmond was done when we got him.
Of course, the question that always draws debate is Michael Cooper . . .
1. Michael Cooper is left off because the Lakers have a tradition of only retiring Hall of Famers. If not for that tradition, a bunch of players could see their jersey retired -- Cooper, Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, and AC Greene for starters. If Cooper ever gets in the Hall, he'll be retired instantly.
2. I wouldn't retire McAdoo's number myself. He was an important sub for us, but he is a Hall of Famer based on his performance before he joined the Lakers, primarily his MVP season with Buffalo. His biggest individual accomplishment as a Laker was coming in 6th in the voting for 6th man of the year in 1985. I think the Hall of Fame tradition requires that the player be a Hall of Fame quality player as a Laker, and McAdoo wasn't that, though he was certainly good.
3. Hayward wasn't kicked off the team before the 79-80 playoffs. He played in 11 playoff games, including 2 finals games. He was dismissed by coach Paul Westhead during the finals because his cocaine addiction caused him to fall asleep during practice. Even if that hadn't happened, there really isn't a case for retiring Hayward's number. He was solid but nothing special as a Laker.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36545 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:01 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
Haywood was kicked off of the 79-80 team before the playoffs because of his cocaine habit (he wasn't the only one, but he was the fall guy). IIRC, he also plotted to have Lakers coach Paul Westhead killed, so his omission is understandable!
McAdoo, however, was a great contributor and I don't think we win in '82 without him. Our big FA signing (Mitch Kupchak) tore up his knee and there was nothing behind KAJ at C. We traded for McAdoo and the Laker bench instantly became (in the words of noted hater Brent Musberger) "better than any starting 5 in the league except Boston's.." We'd have won in 83 except McAdoo & Worthy got hurt in the playoffs.
Richmond was done when we got him.
Of course, the question that always draws debate is Michael Cooper . . .
1. Michael Cooper is left off because the Lakers have a tradition of only retiring Hall of Famers. If not for that tradition, a bunch of players could see their jersey retired -- Cooper, Byron Scott, Derek Fisher, and AC Greene for starters. If Cooper ever gets in the Hall, he'll be retired instantly.
2. I wouldn't retire McAdoo's number myself. He was an important sub for us, but he is a Hall of Famer based on his performance before he joined the Lakers, primarily his MVP season with Buffalo. His biggest individual accomplishment as a Laker was coming in 6th in the voting for 6th man of the year in 1985. I think the Hall of Fame tradition requires that the player be a Hall of Fame quality player as a Laker, and McAdoo wasn't that, though he was certainly good.
3. Hayward wasn't kicked off the team before the 79-80 playoffs. He played in 11 playoff games, including 2 finals games. He was dismissed by coach Paul Westhead during the finals because his cocaine addiction caused him to fall asleep during practice. Even if that hadn't happened, there really isn't a case for retiring Hayward's number. He was solid but nothing special as a Laker.
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
If I recall correctly (and it was long ago), he had a lot of health issues in the years immediately before he came to the Lakers. I think he was with the Pistons and Nets. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
So did LeBron get that foot surgery or did he not need it?
Reports always been that he may need surgery depending on the MRI and how the foot is healing. He never said that it was 100% certain he needed one like what a lot of twitter warriors are saying.
I assume his foot was healing fine and we seen multiple videos of him already working out. But he also said that no one would know if he did get it.
I didn't know even Giannis had a clean up procedure done weeks ago.
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
After his MVP period, McAdoo was reappraised, and people came to see him as a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. He was traded over and over, always ending up as a good scorer on dreadful teams.
He made five straight all-star teams up to age 26, and never made one again after that. Between ages 27 and 29, he was on four teams. He then had contract problems and a foot injury. By the time we traded for him, his rep was in the doghouse. He reinvented himself with us a good bench player.
But it took a long time for his rep to recover. He retired from the NBA in 1986 but was only inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2000. For a long time it looked like he'd be the first MVP left out of the Hall; that honor may now fall to Derek Rose. McAdoo was left off the 50th anniversary team.
He was supposedly a super competitive guy and continually complained to Kareem that one of the MVP awards Kareem won should have been his (McAdoo came in second in MVP voting). He'd always tell Kareem, "You taking good care of trophy."
Last edited by activeverb on Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36545 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:20 am Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
After his MVP period, McAdoo was reappraised, and people came to see him as a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. He was traded over and over, always ending up as a good scorer on dreadful teams.
He made five straight all-star teams up to age 26, and never made one again after that. Between ages 27 and 29, he was on four teams. He then had contract problems and a foot injury. By the time we traded for him, his rep was in the doghouse. He reinvented himself with us a good bench player.
But it took a long time for his rep to recover. He retired in 96 but was only inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2000. For a long time it looked like he'd be the first MVP left out of the Hall; that honor may now fall to Derek Rose. McAdoo was left off the 50th anniversary team.
He was supposedly a super competitive guy and continually complained to Kareem that one of the MVP awards Kareem won should have been his (McAdoo came in second in MVP voting). He'd always tell Kareem, "You taking good care of trophy."
Oh, so he was sort of a low efficiency empty stats guy who was never actually that good even when he was MVP, and people just didn’t figure it out until later? Sort of like a rich man’s Montrezl Harrell or Al Jefferson or Jahlil Okafor? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Carmelo Anthony or Allen Iverson are better analogies. McAdoo was really good, and he wasn't low efficiency by the standards of his time. AV put it well when he said that McAdoo was a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
After his MVP period, McAdoo was reappraised, and people came to see him as a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. He was traded over and over, always ending up as a good scorer on dreadful teams.
He made five straight all-star teams up to age 26, and never made one again after that. Between ages 27 and 29, he was on four teams. He then had contract problems and a foot injury. By the time we traded for him, his rep was in the doghouse. He reinvented himself with us a good bench player.
But it took a long time for his rep to recover. He retired in 96 but was only inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2000. For a long time it looked like he'd be the first MVP left out of the Hall; that honor may now fall to Derek Rose. McAdoo was left off the 50th anniversary team.
He was supposedly a super competitive guy and continually complained to Kareem that one of the MVP awards Kareem won should have been his (McAdoo came in second in MVP voting). He'd always tell Kareem, "You taking good care of trophy."
Oh, so he was sort of a low efficiency empty stats guy who was never actually that good even when he was MVP, and people just didn’t figure it out until later? Sort of like a rich man’s Montrezl Harrell or Al Jefferson or Jahlil Okafor?
Not at all. McAdoo was legit.
The NBA was a different animal in the 1970s. "Much Ado" McAdoo was something the NBA hadn't seen - a legit big man with a devastating perimeter game. He did it all - scored inside, scored outside, defended the rim, made the right passes, etc. His modern day equivalent would be Joel Embiid.
He played for some horrible franchises and injuries slowed him, so the Lakers got him for a song. He was perfect for the Lakers - particularly on the secondary fast break where he'd trail, come down and hit wide open 18-20 ft. jumpers. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36545 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:34 am Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
After his MVP period, McAdoo was reappraised, and people came to see him as a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. He was traded over and over, always ending up as a good scorer on dreadful teams.
He made five straight all-star teams up to age 26, and never made one again after that. Between ages 27 and 29, he was on four teams. He then had contract problems and a foot injury. By the time we traded for him, his rep was in the doghouse. He reinvented himself with us a good bench player.
But it took a long time for his rep to recover. He retired in 96 but was only inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2000. For a long time it looked like he'd be the first MVP left out of the Hall; that honor may now fall to Derek Rose. McAdoo was left off the 50th anniversary team.
He was supposedly a super competitive guy and continually complained to Kareem that one of the MVP awards Kareem won should have been his (McAdoo came in second in MVP voting). He'd always tell Kareem, "You taking good care of trophy."
Oh, so he was sort of a low efficiency empty stats guy who was never actually that good even when he was MVP, and people just didn’t figure it out until later? Sort of like a rich man’s Montrezl Harrell or Al Jefferson or Jahlil Okafor?
Not at all. McAdoo was legit.
The NBA was a different animal in the 1970s. "Much Ado" McAdoo was something the NBA hadn't seen - a legit big man with a devastating perimeter game. He did it all - scored inside, scored outside, defended the rim, made the right passes, etc. His modern day equivalent would be Joel Embiid.
He played for some horrible franchises and injuries slowed him, so the Lakers got him for a song. He was perfect for the Lakers - particularly on the secondary fast break where he'd trail, come down and hit wide open 18-20 ft. jumpers.
So was he still an all star level player for the Lakers, or did injuries dramatically reduce him to a role player? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6320 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 9:17 am Post subject:
We had a horrible time with big-men during the Kareem era, most were essentially big forwards, who were mostly screen centers, and lunchpail types, defend, rebound, try to be tough. The version in that day of Maurice Lucas, the legendary Trailblazer PF, skilled but also a tough enforcer guy.
Enter Mark Landsberger, Jim Chones, Disco Don Ford, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak who was injured very early in his career. The crowning achievement was Mychal Thompson.
The Lakers have often had a great center, but lacked a second good center or solid PF. Probably our best package was the Bynum/Gasol/Odom ensemble; its easily the best combo I can remember since i started following the Lakers in 1975. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Why did McAdoo decline so much once he got to the Lakers when he was only 30? He had averaged 34.5 points and 14.1 rebounds in Buffalo and been league MVP. So how could he become simply a bench guy?
After his MVP period, McAdoo was reappraised, and people came to see him as a no-conscience scorer who cared more about points than winning. He was traded over and over, always ending up as a good scorer on dreadful teams.
He made five straight all-star teams up to age 26, and never made one again after that. Between ages 27 and 29, he was on four teams. He then had contract problems and a foot injury. By the time we traded for him, his rep was in the doghouse. He reinvented himself with us a good bench player.
But it took a long time for his rep to recover. He retired in 96 but was only inducted in the Hall of Fame in 2000. For a long time it looked like he'd be the first MVP left out of the Hall; that honor may now fall to Derek Rose. McAdoo was left off the 50th anniversary team.
He was supposedly a super competitive guy and continually complained to Kareem that one of the MVP awards Kareem won should have been his (McAdoo came in second in MVP voting). He'd always tell Kareem, "You taking good care of trophy."
Oh, so he was sort of a low efficiency empty stats guy who was never actually that good even when he was MVP, and people just didn’t figure it out until later? Sort of like a rich man’s Montrezl Harrell or Al Jefferson or Jahlil Okafor?
Not at all. McAdoo was legit.
The NBA was a different animal in the 1970s. "Much Ado" McAdoo was something the NBA hadn't seen - a legit big man with a devastating perimeter game. He did it all - scored inside, scored outside, defended the rim, made the right passes, etc. His modern day equivalent would be Joel Embiid.
He played for some horrible franchises and injuries slowed him, so the Lakers got him for a song. He was perfect for the Lakers - particularly on the secondary fast break where he'd trail, come down and hit wide open 18-20 ft. jumpers.
So was he still an all star level player for the Lakers, or did injuries dramatically reduce him to a role player?
McAdoo (as a Laker) is one of the reasons the NBA implemented the salary cap. During early Showtime, the Lakers outspent everyone by 25%-30%! One of the complaints by owners was that Dr. Buss was buying rings - the only team that had a player comparable to McAdoo off the bench was Boston (McHale, on a rookie deal).
McAdoo was making almost a million a year with the Lakers - top 15 (maybe top 10) in the league in 84-85. The first salary cap was like $3.3 million! He probably was All Star caliber in 82-83 & 83-84. In 81-82 he was playing himself back in shape, and in 84-85 he was 33 with a lot of miles. He still went on to play 7 years in Italy! _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
So was he still an all star level player for the Lakers, or did injuries dramatically reduce him to a role player?
I am not sure what the term "all star level player" means. (I'm not sure what the term "role player" means either). I can't imagine many people would seriously contend he deserved to be an all-star (as I noted, his highest individual honor as a Laker was coming in 6th in 6th man of the year voting).
He was an important rotation player, who provided a lot of scoring off the bench.
McAdoo was probably our 6th or 7th best player. But this was an era of superteams, so being the 6th or 7th best player on a superteam was different than being the 6th or 7th best player on a team now.
Did Bron attend Wade’s HOF induction ceremony? Didn’t see him in any of the videos. Seem like a big thing to miss.
I am pretty sure he didn't since people were making a big deal about it on Twitter(x). He was at Bosh's HOF induction. So I assume he had a reason for not being at Wade's. His family did have a medical family emergency recently, but who knows if that had something to do with it.
That’s insane that he will be 7th all time in three pointers made. Early in his career, he was viewed as someone who couldn’t shoot. Even now, I don’t really think of him as an elite three point shooter. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
We had a horrible time with big-men during the Kareem era, most were essentially big forwards, who were mostly screen centers, and lunchpail types, defend, rebound, try to be tough. The version in that day of Maurice Lucas, the legendary Trailblazer PF, skilled but also a tough enforcer guy.
Enter Mark Landsberger, Jim Chones, Disco Don Ford, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak who was injured very early in his career. The crowning achievement was Mychal Thompson.
The Lakers have often had a great center, but lacked a second good center or solid PF. Probably our best package was the Bynum/Gasol/Odom ensemble; its easily the best combo I can remember since i started following the Lakers in 1975.
We did have AC Green who was objectively a top-10 starting caliber power forward starting from his second year and was arguably top 5 at his best in the late 80s and with Phoenix. We actually did have the ideal power forward next to Kareem in his prime but we ended up getting rid of him for scraps in Kermit Washington because of the Rudy T incident. Kermit was head and shoulders above Kurt Rambis as a player during the early 80s before knee injuries killed his career but the dude was a better Maurice Lucas who could do everything Lucas could do and run the floor. All star, All-Defensive Team - Kermit got them and he fit the Showtime Lakers by loving to run. A bigger, stronger AC Green with a passable but not as good as Green's mid range jumper.
We had a horrible time with big-men during the Kareem era, most were essentially big forwards, who were mostly screen centers, and lunchpail types, defend, rebound, try to be tough. The version in that day of Maurice Lucas, the legendary Trailblazer PF, skilled but also a tough enforcer guy.
Enter Mark Landsberger, Jim Chones, Disco Don Ford, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak who was injured very early in his career. The crowning achievement was Mychal Thompson.
The Lakers have often had a great center, but lacked a second good center or solid PF. Probably our best package was the Bynum/Gasol/Odom ensemble; its easily the best combo I can remember since i started following the Lakers in 1975.
We did have AC Green who was objectively a top-10 starting caliber power forward starting from his second year and was arguably top 5 at his best in the late 80s and with Phoenix. We actually did have the ideal power forward next to Kareem in his prime but we ended up getting rid of him for scraps in Kermit Washington because of the Rudy T incident. Kermit was head and shoulders above Kurt Rambis as a player during the early 80s before knee injuries killed his career but the dude was a better Maurice Lucas who could do everything Lucas could do and run the floor. All star, All-Defensive Team - Kermit got them and he fit the Showtime Lakers by loving to run. A bigger, stronger AC Green with a passable but not as good as Green's mid range jumper.
Yep. Kermit was a quality player and the Rudy T incident changed his career arc. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36545 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:17 pm Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
1995Lakers wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
We had a horrible time with big-men during the Kareem era, most were essentially big forwards, who were mostly screen centers, and lunchpail types, defend, rebound, try to be tough. The version in that day of Maurice Lucas, the legendary Trailblazer PF, skilled but also a tough enforcer guy.
Enter Mark Landsberger, Jim Chones, Disco Don Ford, Spencer Haywood, Bob McAdoo, Mitch Kupchak who was injured very early in his career. The crowning achievement was Mychal Thompson.
The Lakers have often had a great center, but lacked a second good center or solid PF. Probably our best package was the Bynum/Gasol/Odom ensemble; its easily the best combo I can remember since i started following the Lakers in 1975.
We did have AC Green who was objectively a top-10 starting caliber power forward starting from his second year and was arguably top 5 at his best in the late 80s and with Phoenix. We actually did have the ideal power forward next to Kareem in his prime but we ended up getting rid of him for scraps in Kermit Washington because of the Rudy T incident. Kermit was head and shoulders above Kurt Rambis as a player during the early 80s before knee injuries killed his career but the dude was a better Maurice Lucas who could do everything Lucas could do and run the floor. All star, All-Defensive Team - Kermit got them and he fit the Showtime Lakers by loving to run. A bigger, stronger AC Green with a passable but not as good as Green's mid range jumper.
Yep. Kermit was a quality player and the Rudy T incident changed his career arc.
It’s interesting to me that Tomjanovich is notable both for the Kermit Washington incident and being the coach of the back to back Houston championship teams. What a career. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
We don’t know what the “very near future” means, in terms of his return to the court, but this appears to be great news for Bronny and his basketball future.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
