View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
|
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ocho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | Any drawbacks on a used Tesla? |
Ive noticed very little price difference in used Teslas. |
I see 2016's with 30-50K mile priced around $45-50K on the Tesla site. Really doesn't feel like that's enough deprecation. I wonder if they even sell at those prices. _________________ KOBE |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Surfitall Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
|
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
jonnybravo wrote: | ocho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | Any drawbacks on a used Tesla? |
Ive noticed very little price difference in used Teslas. |
I see 2016's with 30-50K mile priced around $45-50K on the Tesla site. Really doesn't feel like that's enough deprecation. I wonder if they even sell at those prices. |
I considered getting a used Model S or X instead of a new Model 3. Lots of things to consider there. What generation of Autopilot do you want, does it even matter? What generation of interior seats? Do you want the better sound system? Glass roof or solid roof, pre face lift or post face lift? Etc. There is a site called EV-cpo.com that lets you search every used Tesla that has been turned in to a Tesla dealer across the country. For me, the car I wanted would have been the 2016 with the facelift, premium sound, glass roof, free charging, and most recent seats, but if just couldn’t pull the trigger on that, went with a new 3 instead and couldn’t be happier.
There is a little degradation in the batteries to think about or used, but in my opinion that’s not a big deal. The 2016 model year and some if not all previous years get free supercharging for life. The minimalist and futuristic interior is what sold me on the new 3. It just makes everything else look antiquated.
A refreshed version of the S is rumored to be here soon...then you’ll be driving a car that is noticeably different from the brand new ones. Supposedly it’s interior will take a cue from the model 3. The X is not the most attractive car on the outside IMO, but is an incredible car if you are sitting in the back seats thanks to the gullwing doors, especially with the captains seat option. It’s very pricey though. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DeeAgeaux Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 1652
|
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28992689/manufacturers-are-emphasizing-efficiency-more-than-ever/
IN THE INFANCY of the battery-powered electric vehicle, such as we are, there’s only one metric that counts: how far an EV will go on a single charge. Tesla just shattered its own world record, bumping the range of the Model S to a bladder-busting 370 miles. Surprisingly, the 35-mile increase came about without a single physical change to the battery.
It may seem as if the easiest way to go farther is to install a bigger battery, but adding more cells increases vehicle weight, which then requires even more cells to compensate, which then requires a beefier car, which then requires even more battery cells. Allowed to proceed unchecked, this cascading effect could result in a car so heavy, it would collapse into its own gravitational field. Welcome to Black Hole Motors, how can I direct your call?
No thanks. The only reasonable way to maximize range is to concentrate on efficiency. And nobody does efficiency like Tesla. To wit, the Model S Performance (formerly the P100D), the full-size luxury-sport sedan that happens to be the quickest-accelerating production car in history, is 2 MPGe more efficient than the smallest car sold in America, the just-as-electric-but-not-nearly-as-clever Smart EQ Fortwo.
MPGe is the EPA’s measure of EV efficiency, converted into an energy-equivalent (the e) of gasoline miles per gallon. Six of the 10 highest-MPGe vehicles sold in the United States are Tesla Model 3 variants, and the remaining four are limited-availability efficiency-minded hatchbacks on skinny, low-rolling-resistance tires. That’s especially important when you consider that the Model 3 is a mid-size luxury sedan with acceleration and handling on par with a BMW M3.
The last two positions on the list are occupied by the Audi e-Tron and Jaguar I-Pace, two relatively new, purpose-built electric SUVs that spend electrons at a comparatively obscene rate. The much larger Tesla Model X uses nearly a third less energy than either, resulting in an additional 91 miles of range relative to the Audi and 121 more than the Jaguar—using a battery that’s only marginally larger.
So why is it that the latest cars from established manufacturers can’t come close to the efficiency of the Silicon Valley start-up’s aging models? It comes down to inefficiency, both in the cars and in the corporate culture. I should point out that the Model S has become better than 25 percent more efficient over its eight model years, climbing from 89 MPGe to 111. The latest upgrades include revisions to tires and air suspension, changing from an induction-type front motor to a more efficient permanent-magnet design, and revised wheel bearings.
Yes, even wheel bearings count. These have slightly less drag than the car’s already-efficient bearings. The new part is more expensive to manufacture, but Tesla’s engineering teams don’t speak just in terms of dollars, they talk of Battery Bucks—a measure of how much cost can be saved on batteries for every efficiency gain made.
The exchange rate between Battery Bucks and Bearing Dollars must be favorable, because the new bearings made it into production. Rather than shrink the battery, though, Tesla took advantage of the increased range: the new parts are responsible for up to an additional 15 miles compared with traditional bearings. Fifteen miles is more than a quarter of the range of that microscopic Smart Fortwo, and I bet those bearings cost much less than a fourth of the Fortwo’s battery.
Thinking in terms of Battery Bucks allows the company’s departments to work together, rather than in isolated silos as at traditional automakers. There, one imagines braking guys might fantasize about four-piston, monobloc calipers, but their budget would never allow that luxury. At Tesla, the brake guys looked at their Battery Bucks and realized that it cost less overall to use expensive Brembos. Because they can be made to retract the pads from the spinning rotors faster and more reliably than sliding calipers, monoblocs reduce friction—enough to provide up to 20 miles of increased range. The Brembos were easily paid for using Battery Bucks. The additional stopping power, credibility, and better pedal feel are just added bonuses.
Even though Tesla’s 100-kWh battery pack is the biggest in the industry, it contains only as much energy as three gallons of gasoline. When you’re trying to maximize the range of a 5000-pound luxury sedan, every drop counts. Whether it’s the result of that seemingly insoluble efficiency challenge or just the product of an agile corporate culture created by Elon Musk, it’s the open communication between departments and the focus on Battery Bucks that is helping Tesla change the automotive world. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jonnybravo wrote: | ocho wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | Any drawbacks on a used Tesla? |
Ive noticed very little price difference in used Teslas. |
I see 2016's with 30-50K mile priced around $45-50K on the Tesla site. Really doesn't feel like that's enough deprecation. I wonder if they even sell at those prices. |
https://www.vroom.com/catalog/all-years/tesla
https://www.carvana.com/cars/tesla _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Surfitall Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
|
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
|
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Surfitall wrote: |
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
What’s VWs offerings? e-Tron and Taycan? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I just ordered my model 3.
AWD, black/white interior.
I'm still skeptical about FSD so I'm going to talk to a few friends first to see if its worth it then i'll edit my order. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
1. car drove nicely in a test drive 3 weeks ago
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
3. every 'difficult' question i asked, i later discovered that the dealer lied to me after some googling |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
1. car drove nicely in a test drive 3 weeks ago
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
3. every 'difficult' question i asked, i later discovered that the dealer lied to me after some googling |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
22 wrote: | Surfitall wrote: |
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
What’s VWs offerings? e-Tron and Taycan? |
And Golf E, which, if it wasn't for the range, kind of awesome. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
22 wrote: | Surfitall wrote: |
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
What’s VWs offerings? e-Tron and Taycan? |
And Golf E, which, if it wasn't for the range, kind of awesome. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DeeAgeaux Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 1652
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cal1piggy wrote: |
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
|
SF-LA trip is ~380 miles.
The only electric car that can do this without stopping is Tesla Model S long range and only if you are light on the throttle and AC/Heat.
Very few cars can do this trip without refueling.
Some are the Prius or Diesels.
A Model 3 long range would require a 10 minute stop at one of 8 Supercharger Stations along the I-5.
And a Tesla has a lower TCO and is much more fun to drive than hybrids or diesels. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Surfitall Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nickuku wrote: | I just ordered my model 3.
AWD, black/white interior.
I'm still skeptical about FSD so I'm going to talk to a few friends first to see if its worth it then i'll edit my order. |
Congratulations! I have the white interior, it’s great. When you get sick of the fingerprints and the scratches on the center console, check out the white vinyl wrap from Kenriko. It matches the rest of the white perfectly, doesn’t scratch, no fingerprints, and is surprisingly easy to apply and looks awesome.
I decided it wasn’t worth FSD at this time. Eventually it will totally be worth it, but how long that will be is anyone’s guess. I don’t need summon, or automatic lane changes on the highway. Auto pilot works fantastic on freeways and it’s great but not perfect on city streets even without FSD. When it can start recognizing stop signs and stop lights, when it can turn corners effortlessly on its own, when you can go door to door with FSD autopilot...then it will be very worth it. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Surfitall Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2002 Posts: 3829 Location: South Orange County
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | 22 wrote: | Surfitall wrote: |
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
What’s VWs offerings? e-Tron and Taycan? |
And Golf E, which, if it wasn't for the range, kind of awesome. |
VW wants to make pretty much their entire lineup electric. If they do that, it will be a big deal. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
After the diesel fiasco, and given their very mediocre reliability, that would be a really good reboot. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Surfitall wrote: | nickuku wrote: | I just ordered my model 3.
AWD, black/white interior.
I'm still skeptical about FSD so I'm going to talk to a few friends first to see if its worth it then i'll edit my order. |
Congratulations! I have the white interior, it’s great. When you get sick of the fingerprints and the scratches on the center console, check out the white vinyl wrap from Kenriko. It matches the rest of the white perfectly, doesn’t scratch, no fingerprints, and is surprisingly easy to apply and looks awesome.
I decided it wasn’t worth FSD at this time. Eventually it will totally be worth it, but how long that will be is anyone’s guess. I don’t need summon, or automatic lane changes on the highway. Auto pilot works fantastic on freeways and it’s great but not perfect on city streets even without FSD. When it can start recognizing stop signs and stop lights, when it can turn corners effortlessly on its own, when you can go door to door with FSD autopilot...then it will be very worth it. |
Thanks!
I'm doing the loan process now. Tesla pulled from Chase and US bank but my credit union still offered a better APR so I'm going with them. I guess the next step is just to wait for the VIN number. My estimate says 5-8 weeks but I've read that some people have gotten their cars in a week.
I've never been much of a car person but a Tesla is just like another electronic gadget that I have to get my hands on not to mention the overall positive impact on the environment. All in all I'm very excited. _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Surfitall wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | 22 wrote: | Surfitall wrote: |
It does look cool. My random guess is it will start at around $65,000. I still don’t believe the legacy manufacturers really want to sell mass market BEV’s. The low maintenance costs will cause problems for their dealer networks. If VW follows through it will be an interesting use case.
Tesla’s advantage isn’t styling. It’s technology. Battery technology and self driving technology seems so far ahead of everyone else right now. Driving a Tesla with autopilot is a game changing experience. Add in the supercharger network, and who can really compete with that right now? |
What’s VWs offerings? e-Tron and Taycan? |
And Golf E, which, if it wasn't for the range, kind of awesome. |
VW wants to make pretty much their entire lineup electric. If they do that, it will be a big deal. |
If the Audi/Porsche E-tech gets passed down, that would be a big deal. Unfortunately, for the Golf, the range is just too short.
But if they used a similar drivetrain in the Arteon or Passat, that would be a big deal for VW.
Too bad about the diesels though, because those cars are actually pretty awesome from a daily driving standpoint. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
nickuku wrote: | I just ordered my model 3.
AWD, black/white interior.
I'm still skeptical about FSD so I'm going to talk to a few friends first to see if its worth it then i'll edit my order. |
Woohoo. Swing by my place for lunch so I can gawk brotha! _________________ KOBE |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
jonnybravo wrote: | nickuku wrote: | I just ordered my model 3.
AWD, black/white interior.
I'm still skeptical about FSD so I'm going to talk to a few friends first to see if its worth it then i'll edit my order. |
Woohoo. Swing by my place for lunch so I can gawk brotha! |
Definitely! _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mhan00 Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 32025
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cal1piggy wrote: | 1. car drove nicely in a test drive 3 weeks ago
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
3. every 'difficult' question i asked, i later discovered that the dealer lied to me after some googling |
The recharge isn’t bad at all. I make the LA-SF trip (and back) once every month or so. I find the 20-30 minute stop at either Harris Ranch or Kettleman City relaxing and a good energy boost for me. I actually make two stops to charge for peace of mind, and because I found I really like taking a break every couple of hours from driving. The main issue, which I haven’t encountered yet but have heard of, is on peak travel days (Thanksgiving weekend, for example) the super chargers can build up lines since there are so many Tesla’s in CA now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
DeeAgeaux wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: |
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
|
SF-LA trip is ~380 miles.
The only electric car that can do this without stopping is Tesla Model S long range and only if you are light on the throttle and AC/Heat.
Very few cars can do this trip without refueling.
Some are the Prius or Diesels.
A Model 3 long range would require a 10 minute stop at one of 8 Supercharger Stations along the I-5.
And a Tesla has a lower TCO and is much more fun to drive than hybrids or diesels. |
yes, but can you count on having a station available at harris ranch?
i think a lot of new non-hybrid new cars can do that drive now with some to spare.
i tested drove the model s also, and it was very nice. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
|
Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
mhan00 wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | 1. car drove nicely in a test drive 3 weeks ago
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
3. every 'difficult' question i asked, i later discovered that the dealer lied to me after some googling |
The recharge isn’t bad at all. I make the LA-SF trip (and back) once every month or so. I find the 20-30 minute stop at either Harris Ranch or Kettleman City relaxing and a good energy boost for me. I actually make two stops to charge for peace of mind, and because I found I really like taking a break every couple of hours from driving. The main issue, which I haven’t encountered yet but have heard of, is on peak travel days (Thanksgiving weekend, for example) the super chargers can build up lines since there are so many Tesla’s in CA now. |
i also do that drive once per month.
i also stop at least twice on the way because i dont want to sit in the same position for more than 2 hours.
can i count on having a station always available at harris ranch? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DeeAgeaux Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Posts: 1652
|
Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cal1piggy wrote: | DeeAgeaux wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: |
2. battery is not good enough for a sf-la trip without mid-trip recharge - deal killer for me
|
SF-LA trip is ~380 miles.
The only electric car that can do this without stopping is Tesla Model S long range and only if you are light on the throttle and AC/Heat.
Very few cars can do this trip without refueling.
Some are the Prius or Diesels.
A Model 3 long range would require a 10 minute stop at one of 8 Supercharger Stations along the I-5.
And a Tesla has a lower TCO and is much more fun to drive than hybrids or diesels. |
yes, but can you count on having a station available at harris ranch?
i think a lot of new non-hybrid new cars can do that drive now with some to spare.
i tested drove the model s also, and it was very nice. |
There is more than Harris Ranch's 18 Superchargers.
If you check your infotainment screen and see they are all busy(extremely unlikely unless it is Thanksgiving) then skip to Kettleman City Station which has 40 Superchargers or Hollister(20 Superchargers)/Gustine(12 Superchargers) Stations.
A BMW M3 for example has a theoretical 395 miles of range. What idiot is going to drive on the highway with less than 1/8 tank on the freeway?
Tesla gives you an estimate of miles left to empty plus a small buffer after you reach 0 miles. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|