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giordan0
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow323 wrote: |
Say what you want about that douchebag Mintz, but Randle going to the Pelicans was the right more, financial/business wise. |
Not when the cripple Jabari Parker just scored a 2Y 40M from the Bulls.
Mintz has brainwashed his clients. |
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WindyCityLakerFan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Hydro21 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Happens more than you think .. |
So they're idiots?
I'm with buckets. The agents work to achieve the wishes of their clients, not the other way around. |
I can tell you from personal experience that it happens and it’s quite shocking.
Agents/money guys look out for themselves first and foremost. They steer their clients in ways that benefit the agent most. It should be the other way around but they have too much influence on these young guys. |
Yes, the guy who is supposed to be one of the two critical financial maneuvers needed to secure $70 million in cap space to lure James and George — along with stretching the remaining two years and $36.8 million on Luol Deng’s contract — wonders what it would be like to stay and play alongside a superstar like James.
“It would definitely be interesting because we are building something. We really see our young core developing, so it would definitely be something interesting,” Randle said recently of playing with James only after insisting he has his mind focused on finishing the season strong for his team. “I played with [Kobe Bryant]. … What you learn from Bean as far as mentality and just the little things, his work ethic, I would love to play with Bron and learn the same things.
“[Learning and soaking in] what makes him so great, what does he do that makes him so great and how does he make everybody else so great. He has made a living off of making teammates better. So you have a guy like that, it makes a lot of things easier, I would say.”
So he says this then it changes to he asked to have the qualifying offer removed because his role would be diminished. Seems like something his agent was pushing. |
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JohnDoe
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:57 am Post subject: |
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"The longer we keep looking back in the rearview mirror, it takes away from everything that's moving forward." -Dan Quinn
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| YSong wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Wrong. Agents have HUGE influence over their clients. It's not like Mintz actively told Randle that he hate Pelinka and the grudge is why he should go to New Orleans. He probably steered towards that direction and steered PG towards re-signing with the Thunder in a subtle but profound fashion.
Randle isn't here anymore because his ego and his agent got in the way. If he really wanted to be a Laker he would have realized what Maginka vision was and taken a 1 year deal. |
Yeah, in PG's ESPN special, he said that Mintz is like a brother to him. |
Hey PG can be influenced by whomever. Let’s see how he likes OKC the next 2-3 yrs |
I am sure he will like it
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | | Lakeshow323 wrote: |
Say what you want about that douchebag Mintz, but Randle going to the Pelicans was the right more, financial/business wise. |
Not when the cripple Jabari Parker just scored a 2Y 40M from the Bulls.
Mintz has brainwashed his clients. |
NO didn’t have $20 mil to spend. He could have went to a crappy organization like Chicago but wanted to join his fellow Wildcat and compete in the West.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Hydro21 wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Happens more than you think .. |
So they're idiots?
I'm with buckets. The agents work to achieve the wishes of their clients, not the other way around. |
I can tell you from personal experience that it happens and it’s quite shocking.
Agents/money guys look out for themselves first and foremost. They steer their clients in ways that benefit the agent most. It should be the other way around but they have too much influence on these young guys. |
Yes, the guy who is supposed to be one of the two critical financial maneuvers needed to secure $70 million in cap space to lure James and George — along with stretching the remaining two years and $36.8 million on Luol Deng’s contract — wonders what it would be like to stay and play alongside a superstar like James.
“It would definitely be interesting because we are building something. We really see our young core developing, so it would definitely be something interesting,” Randle said recently of playing with James only after insisting he has his mind focused on finishing the season strong for his team. “I played with [Kobe Bryant]. … What you learn from Bean as far as mentality and just the little things, his work ethic, I would love to play with Bron and learn the same things.
“[Learning and soaking in] what makes him so great, what does he do that makes him so great and how does he make everybody else so great. He has made a living off of making teammates better. So you have a guy like that, it makes a lot of things easier, I would say.”
So he says this then it changes to he asked to have the qualifying offer removed because his role would be diminished. Seems like something his agent was pushing. |
Or the agent reminded him he would be coming off the bench, and likely 4th in the forward pecking order. It's very hard to make the case he was coerced into something against his self-interest. The same goes for George who would be staring down the barrel of being the next Chris Bosh after Leonard was on-boarded.
Last edited by greenfrog on Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| UKUGA wrote: | This has been discussed for a year now.
It came up big when the tampering stuff started.
Surprised it doesn't have it's own (very stale) thread already. |
Yes, Pelinka made the mistake of tampering with someone with ethics.
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Staccatos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
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When the league fined the Lakers $500K for tampering with Paul George, the investigation was instigated by the Indiana Pacers.
How would the Indiana Pacers know that Rob Pelinka had conversations with Aaron Mintz about Paul George and to request phone and email records? It had to have come from Aaron Mintz. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | When the league fined the Lakers $500K for tampering with Paul George, the investigation was instigated by the Indiana Pacers.
How would the Indiana Pacers know that Rob Pelinka had conversations with Aaron Mintz about Paul George and to request phone and email records? It had to have come from Aaron Mintz. |
It likely did
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Judah
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | UKUGA wrote: | This has been discussed for a year now.
It came up big when the tampering stuff started.
Surprised it doesn't have it's own (very stale) thread already. |
Yes, Pelinka made the mistake of tampering with someone with ethics. |
Ethics? He had to be involved in the power play last year to force Indiana to trade George to the Lakers. Nothing ethical about that.
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:29 am Post subject: |
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I would be extremely suprised if the average nba career greatly exceeds 10 years.
Further out of these 10 years, 4 are on a bargain basement rookie contract.
With this in mind, I personally do not doubt that Randle got a terrible deal and Mintz is probably to blame for it.
Randle's caphold is 12 mil. Before free agency some on LG were speculating he could get close to 18 and he eventually settled for a 2 year contract at 9 mil per year.
As agent, Mintz job is to look after Randle's financial interests. Stuff about pecking order/championship contention should really be secondary since basketball is a job. A job with a very limited shelf life.
If Mintz was really working for Randle's best interest and the lakers weren't interested in giving Randle a multiyear contract, Mintz should have tried to get some team to sign Randle to an offer sheet and force the lakers to match or decline.
Randle now is in a terrible position where he has to play his heart out next year and hope he doesn't get a major injury and end up like demarcus cousins. Further next off-season, there are quite a number of max free agents available. No matter how well Randle plays, he probably would have to wait and hope most of these free agents re-sign with their own teams, so there's cap room left over for him to sign a big contract. If both these points are not evidence that he has a terrible agent, I don't know what is.
Last edited by Vanquish on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gatekeeper
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | UKUGA wrote: | This has been discussed for a year now.
It came up big when the tampering stuff started.
Surprised it doesn't have it's own (very stale) thread already. |
Yes, Pelinka made the mistake of tampering with someone with ethics. |
Ethics? He had to be involved in the power play last year to force Indiana to trade George to the Lakers. Nothing ethical about that. |
Actually it was, no one was accused of breaking the rules. There have been many cases of players/agents pushing for a move but many less of executives breaking the rules. Two of those incidents happened in the last year by the Laker FO.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Can it be Mintz vs Klutch? |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | I would be extremely suprised if the average nba career greatly exceeds 10 years.
Further out of these 10 years, 4 are on a bargain basement rookie contract.
With this in mind, I personally do not doubt that Randle got a terrible deal and Mintz is probably to blame for it.
Randle's caphold is 12 mil. Before free agency some on LG were speculating he could get close to 18 and he eventually settled for a 2 year contract at 9 mil per year.
As agent, Mintz job is to look after Randle's financial interests. Stuff about pecking order/championship contention should really be secondary since basketball is a job. A job with a very limited shelf life.
If Mintz was really working for Randle's best interest and the lakers weren't interested in giving Randle a multiyear contract, Mintz should have tried to get some team to sign Randle to an offer sheet and force the lakers to match or decline.
Randle now is in a terrible position where he has to play his heart out next year and hope he doesn't get a major injury and end up like demarcus cousins. Further next off-season, there are quite a number of max free agents available. No matter how well Randle plays, he probably would have to wait and hope most of these free agents re-sign with their own teams, so there's cap room left over for him to sign a big contract. If both these points are not evidence that he has a terrible agent, I don't know what is. |
I'm not sure what rumored deal Randle left on the table to play in NO, but I highly doubt it was in the range of $18m. |
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Barry Seal
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | YSong wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Wrong. Agents have HUGE influence over their clients. It's not like Mintz actively told Randle that he hate Pelinka and the grudge is why he should go to New Orleans. He probably steered towards that direction and steered PG towards re-signing with the Thunder in a subtle but profound fashion.
Randle isn't here anymore because his ego and his agent got in the way. If he really wanted to be a Laker he would have realized what Maginka vision was and taken a 1 year deal. |
Yeah, in PG's ESPN special, he said that Mintz is like a brother to him. |
Hey PG can be influenced by whomever. Let’s see how he likes OKC the next 2-3 yrs |
I am sure he will like it |
Not when he plays against his father Joe Ingles |
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az82187
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Joined: 06 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: |
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I get the sense that Mintz was way in over his head and got outwitted by OKC.
To not even take a single meeting with any other team is not only dumb but also disrespectful and borderline inexcusable.
That's at least how I view the situation and if others in a position of power (e.g. GMs, player agents) feel the same way then that's not a good look for PG13 moving forward. |
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Beir32
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Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | UKUGA wrote: | This has been discussed for a year now.
It came up big when the tampering stuff started.
Surprised it doesn't have it's own (very stale) thread already. |
Yes, Pelinka made the mistake of tampering with someone with ethics. |
Ethics? He had to be involved in the power play last year to force Indiana to trade George to the Lakers. Nothing ethical about that. |
Actually it was, no one was accused of breaking the rules. There have been many cases of players/agents pushing for a move but many less of executives breaking the rules. Two of those incidents happened in the last year by the Laker FO. |
Ethical is not the same as legal. |
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OCWA
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Wrong. Agents have HUGE influence over their clients. It's not like Mintz actively told Randle that he hate Pelinka and the grudge is why he should go to New Orleans. He probably steered towards that direction and steered PG towards re-signing with the Thunder in a subtle but profound fashion.
Randle isn't here anymore because his ego and his agent got in the way. If he really wanted to be a Laker he would have realized what Maginka vision was and taken a 1 year deal. |
Yeah, in PG's ESPN special, he said that Mintz is like a brother to him. |
That is what agents (good ones) do. Create a bond, whether real or fake, that makes it appear that they are family, thus creating a loyalty. In reality, if PG was a guy working at Costco, Mintz wouldn't give him the time of day. So, in reality, Mintz/all agents are like the brother that is loyal to you because you are rich and supporting him. |
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az82187
Sixth Man
Joined: 06 Jul 2018
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | bucketsandbags wrote: | | No player is going to allow their agent to dictate where they go over some personal grudge. George is happy in OKC and Randle would never have the role he wants with LeBron on the team. It's a much better fit for him with Davis and Mirotić than LeBron and Ingram/Kuzma. |
Wrong. Agents have HUGE influence over their clients. It's not like Mintz actively told Randle that he hate Pelinka and the grudge is why he should go to New Orleans. He probably steered towards that direction and steered PG towards re-signing with the Thunder in a subtle but profound fashion.
Randle isn't here anymore because his ego and his agent got in the way. If he really wanted to be a Laker he would have realized what Maginka vision was and taken a 1 year deal. |
Yeah, in PG's ESPN special, he said that Mintz is like a brother to him. |
That is what agents (good ones) do. Create a bond, whether real or fake, that makes it appear that they are family, thus creating a loyalty. In reality, if PG was a guy working at Costco, Mintz wouldn't give him the time of day. So, in reality, Mintz/all agents are like the brother that is loyal to you because you are rich and supporting him. |
So true! PG looked like a fool in that series. He's still a rich AF fool but a fool nonetheless. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jordan-esque wrote: | PG’s documentary, first thing he mentions is how vital Aaron Mintz is in his NBA career:
| Quote: | Paul George: “Aaron Mintz is my agent. He’s been in this journey with me since I was 20 years old. He’s played a very, very vital role in my career. We share more than an agent and player relationship. He’s more of my big brother.”
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Yall are naive if you don't think agents steer their clients towards certain teams. At that level of business the pettiness is at an all time high with these dudes. Egos are massive.
If Randle & PG had another agent Randle most likely still be a Laker and PG would have at least taken a meeting with Magic before making his decision. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Jordan-esque wrote: | PG’s documentary, first thing he mentions is how vital Aaron Mintz is in his NBA career:
| Quote: | Paul George: “Aaron Mintz is my agent. He’s been in this journey with me since I was 20 years old. He’s played a very, very vital role in my career. We share more than an agent and player relationship. He’s more of my big brother.”
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Yall are naive if you don't think agents steer their clients towards certain teams. At that level of business the pettiness is at an all time high with these dudes. Egos are massive.
If Randle & PG had another agent Randle most likely still be a Laker and PG would have at least taken a meeting with Magic before making his decision. |
I think you're searching for a villain where there is none. |
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Rubin
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | giordan0 wrote: | | Lakeshow323 wrote: |
Say what you want about that douchebag Mintz, but Randle going to the Pelicans was the right more, financial/business wise. |
Not when the cripple Jabari Parker just scored a 2Y 40M from the Bulls.
Mintz has brainwashed his clients. |
NO didn’t have $20 mil to spend. He could have went to a crappy organization like Chicago but wanted to join his fellow Wildcat and compete in the West. |
He could have? Really? I don’t remember hearing ANYTHING about any team, “crappy” or otherwise, being interested in signing him to anything close to the contract Jabari got.
I’d take it one step further: if the Hawks, Bulls, Kings or any other bad team had offered him that money, he would’ve taken it without thinking twice. Not sure how you can claim he could have gone to a crappy team but “wanted” to go to NO.
Lastly what’s your definition of “compete in the West”? I think they’re very clearly behind GSW, HOU, LAL, OKC, UTA, and SAS (of Kawhi is somehow back and healthy). I see them more in the POR, MIN, DEN group, competing for spots 5-9. |
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The Juggernaut
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Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Jordan-esque wrote: | PG’s documentary, first thing he mentions is how vital Aaron Mintz is in his NBA career:
| Quote: | Paul George: “Aaron Mintz is my agent. He’s been in this journey with me since I was 20 years old. He’s played a very, very vital role in my career. We share more than an agent and player relationship. He’s more of my big brother.”
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Yall are naive if you don't think agents steer their clients towards certain teams. At that level of business the pettiness is at an all time high with these dudes. Egos are massive.
If Randle & PG had another agent Randle most likely still be a Laker and PG would have at least taken a meeting with Magic before making his decision. |
I think you're searching for a villain where there is none. |
Eric Pincus confirmed it bro. You’re being naive or just trying to be a contrarian |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| az82187 wrote: | I get the sense that Mintz was way in over his head and got outwitted by OKC.
To not even take a single meeting with any other team is not only dumb but also disrespectful and borderline inexcusable.
That's at least how I view the situation and if others in a position of power (e.g. GMs, player agents) feel the same way then that's not a good look for PG13 moving forward. |
You should have gotten the sense that George wanted to stay in OKC and not look to go elsewhere. Because that is what happened.
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