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LakerLanny
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 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Raiders waive Carr today after he wouldn't waive his no trade clause.
The "no trade clause" may have been a nice idea, but the fact is no one wants this guy at his contract number.
Good move by the Raiders in my opinion, I was never a fan even though he was saddled with some bad management and teams at times in his tenure, but overall not nearly good enough at his number.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | Raiders waive Carr today after he wouldn't waive his no trade clause.
The "no trade clause" may have been a nice idea, but the fact is no one wants this guy at his contract number.
Good move by the Raiders in my opinion, I was never a fan even though he was saddled with some bad management and teams at times in his tenure, but overall not nearly good enough at his number. |
I think the Raiders made the right decision because they eat very little dead cap, but he's going to have interested suitors. He may not get $40MM for 2023, but I am guessing that he can command at least $70MM in guaranteed money from someone, essentially 2 years of QB play. (They may announce it as a longer deal, but of course, by now, we all know that the contracts in the NFL are about the guaranteed money and then when the team has a possible out in getting away from the deal for a low or lower cap charge.)
It will be interesting to see if Carr wants to make a very quick decision, or if he's at least willing to wait on what Aaron Rodgers wants to do. If Rodgers wants to stay in Green Bay, I could see the Jets and Carr having mutual interest. Rumblings out of New York suggest that they have him #2 on their list, so presumably ahead of Jimmy G. Of course, if Rodgers wants to go to the Raiders, then perhaps the coast is clear for Carr to be a Jet. If Rodgers goes to the Jets, then one of the NFC South teams could make sense. We'll just have to see. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | Raiders waive Carr today after he wouldn't waive his no trade clause.
The "no trade clause" may have been a nice idea, but the fact is no one wants this guy at his contract number.
Good move by the Raiders in my opinion, I was never a fan even though he was saddled with some bad management and teams at times in his tenure, but overall not nearly good enough at his number. |
| ChickenStu wrote: | | I think the Raiders made the right decision because they eat very little dead cap, but he's going to have interested suitors. |
Yeah, calling this a "good move" or "good decision", you really have to go back to last year. If it was a good move, it was on top of a horrible extension.
| Quote: | His original contract had him making ~$19.5M for 2022 in the last yr of his deal. After the season, they would have had the ability to put a franchise tag on him. If not, they would have gotten a compensatory draft pick for him.
Instead, they gave him an extension. This is what they got for the extension:
- he gets an extra $5.5M added to his 2022 salary (in the form of a $7.5M signing bonus and his salary gets reduced to $17.5M). So instead of making $19.5M in 2022, he makes $25M.
- he gets a new 3 yr deal, with $0 guaranteed money ~ 3 yrs $116M.
- the $0 money guaranteed was deceiving because of the Feb. 14 deadline. They had to make their decision by Feb 14 or $41M in guarantees would kick in.
- he gets a no-trade clause
- if they release him, they don't get any draft pick compensation
- they also lose the ability to franchise tag him
- they now have a dead cap hit of $5.5M tacked onto their 2023 cap |
So was it a good move releasing him? Well, they had no options. But it was on top of a horrible extension.
That extension gave them nothing. They gave Carr alot, they gave up alot of rights in order to lock him into a 3 yr $116M extension with $0 guaranteed. And $41M guaranteed on Feb 14. Was that worth it?
Not to me. The franchise tag no. this yr is around $32M or so? They would have had an easier time trading him at this number than the $41M number. Plus, the fact that he wouldn't have a no-trade clause and no Feb. 14 deadline. Any team who wanted Carr would have had to go through the Raiders.
Or they could have kept the original contract as is, released him and probably get a 3rd rd draft pick for him. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2023 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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^Agreed LBP, I have no idea what the Raiders were thinking when they extended him. They didn't need to and it was a very bad decision.
That said, I think they are smart to walk away from him now. Stidham looked vastly better in his short stint and in my mind Carr has always been soft and overrated, Raiders were down on his record in cold weather and against good teams where he always seemed to fall short.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:21 am Post subject: |
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^
Perhaps some of it has to do with the fact that if he had played well, they'd still have him, and didn't want to go year to year with him, possibly like how the Ravens may be re-thinking going year to year with Lamar on franchise tags. Does the player really buy in as much as they otherwise would, in that situation? They are getting out of his deal with relatively little trouble, and I'm sure they thought he'd still be their QB in '23. At least they are not doubling down and are admitting the "mistake", if you will, and moving on. It's like how the Eagles drafted Jalen Reagor and quickly realized it was a mistake. So they took Devonta Smith and then traded for AJ Brown, moving pretty swiftly to correct an error. In any case, it's pretty hard for me to criticize the Raiders for thinking that they could win with Carr moving forward, as he had probably played like the 10th-best QB in the league over the past couple of seasons, somewhere in that range. He played really poorly in '22, and it will be interesting to see if he rebounds on another team, or if this is the start of a decline or even a rapid fall.
Anyway, now we'll see what they end up with, whether that's Rodgers, a different vet, or if they draft a young QB at #7 (or in another spot if they move up or down the board). I remain skeptical that they will commit to starting a draft pick because I question if Ziegler and McDaniels have enough job security to be able to withstand, say, a year or two of growing pains with a young signal-caller who gets thrown into the fire. |
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j-dawg
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:56 am Post subject: |
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There are probably about 5-7 QBâs in this league that are true actual franchise QBâs.
The next 7-20 range is much closer than what people think. Some of better fantasy stats and yardage, but in terms of impact on the game? Probably (for the most part) negligible in the grand scheme of things. Carr is sandwiched right in the latter, not the former. But this is a QB driven league, where QBâs in this range get paid big $$$.
The 20-32 range is where you donât want to be in. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | ^
Perhaps some of it has to do with the fact that if he had played well, they'd still have him, and didn't want to go year to year with him, possibly like how the Ravens may be re-thinking going year to year with Lamar on franchise tags. Does the player really buy in as much as they otherwise would, in that situation? They are getting out of his deal with relatively little trouble, and I'm sure they thought he'd still be their QB in '23. At least they are not doubling down and are admitting the "mistake", if you will, and moving on. It's like how the Eagles drafted Jalen Reagor and quickly realized it was a mistake. So they took Devonta Smith and then traded for AJ Brown, moving pretty swiftly to correct an error. In any case, it's pretty hard for me to criticize the Raiders for thinking that they could win with Carr moving forward, as he had probably played like the 10th-best QB in the league over the past couple of seasons, somewhere in that range. He played really poorly in '22, and it will be interesting to see if he rebounds on another team, or if this is the start of a decline or even a rapid fall. |
For sure, there was a reason why the Raiders did it. And there's also a reason why Carr took it too.
And the way it played out, was exactly why Carr structured the extension the way he did.
- The Raiders ended up asking/begging Carr to extend that Feb 14 deadline. He was like, ummm, no?
- The Raiders ended up agreeing to a deal with NO, but Carr used his no-trade clause to block the trade. He also got permission to talk to NO first.
- The Raiders ended up getting zero compensation for him, when they would have been entitled to a compensatory pick for him.
- So everything that they put into that extension actually came back to bite them. It just seemed like an extremely and poorly negotiated extension.
- I think Carr's side won on this extension.
- And we haven't even mentioned them (reportedly) refusing to trade him to the Colts for 2 firsts.
| Quote: | Raiders Beat
@RaidersBeat
Colts reportedly offered 2 first-round picks for Derek Carr (prior to trading for Matt Ryan).
Will they come knocking again?
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- So around Mar 2022, the Colts traded for Matt Ryan. Sometime before this, they reportedly offered 2 firsts for Carr.
- Around April 2022, the Raiders gave Carr that new extension.
- By Feb 14, 2023, they released Carr for zero compensation.... |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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^
Yep, looking back, obviously the Raiders wish they had taken the Colts' offer. However, they don't get Davante without Carr, and I think that's pretty clear. They were trying to win last season and believed that they had a playoff roster, despite some holes. And to be honest, I don't think they were wrong in their assessment. The Raiders blew numerous games and Carr played well below his normal levels. If they had gotten an average Carr season, they make the playoffs easy. If they had gotten an above-average Carr season combined with some better luck (not blowing so many games late), they at least finish ahead of the Chargers in the standings, meaning they would have at least been the #6 seed.
They could have tried to run it back, hoping for a Carr rebound and better luck with close games (like they had in 2021). They are cutting the cord now and hoping to import an even better QB. We'll see if they can pull it off. I have some concerns on Rodgers but he offers so much more upside that I think it would be worth it for the Raiders to get him. Then again, I said the same thing about the Broncos getting Wilson, but this time I don't think the Raiders would have to commit $200+MM to get Rodgers. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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^
Yeah, a couple of things:
1) The excuse for Carr has always been that he doesn't do well in a brand new system.
His best season was under Musgrove in 2015 and 2016. They changed to Todd Downing in 2017. He immediately struggled that year. They fired Downing. In 2018, they brought in Gruden, and Carr struggled his first year. He improved the next 2 seasons under Gruden, then struggled in 2021 when Gruden was fired. 2022 was going to be a brand new system, so banking on Carr to have a good season was ignoring history. Carr doesn't really pick up new systems fast. I wouldn't be surprised if Carr struggled next year under another brand new system.
2) They still had him under contract for 2022. So, there wasn't a decision that needed to be made for 2022. There wasn't even a decision to be made for 2023 either since they had the franchise tag. The decision was made for 2024 and 2025.
3) You don't turn down 2 firsts for a player you're unwilling to commit to. It just makes no sense. The Raiders treated Carr like the Colts treated Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers. They gave up 3rd rd picks to get them on 1 yr deals. If the Colts would have acquired Carr, they would have given him a proper extension. Either you believe in the player or you don't. The extension they gave him indicated that they really didn't believe in him. If they didn't believe in him, there's no need to worry about seasons 2024 and 2025. They had him under control for 2022 and 2023 already and that should be plenty for a player you don't really believe in.
4) After they turned down the 2 firsts, they should have tried to preserve his trade value in case things don't work out. If they franchised tagged him this year, they then could have traded him. At the very least, they would have gotten a compensatory pick for him. But, giving him that extension pretty much reduced his trade value down to zero (if things didn't work out), and that's how it actually played out. They got zero for him. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Josh Gordon is playing for the Seattle Sea Dragons in the XFL.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Massive trade up by the Panthers to get the #1 pick in the draft. I think you'd have to say that the Bears did really well here, getting #9 overall, a 2nd rounder this year via SF, a 1st rounder next year, a 2nd rounder in '25, and, oh by the way, DJ Moore. Moore happens to be signed for reasonable prices through 2025, also. Big haul for Ryan Poles and the Bears.
Early indications are that the Panthers prefer CJ Stroud to Young, so Stroud will probably be the guy at #1 overall. It's a lot to give up for Stroud, and there's no obvious #1 WR on the roster now, but the Panthers did manage to keep the #39 overall pick in the draft (their own 2nd rounder). |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Jimmy G is a Raider, and Sam Darnold is a 49er. Darnold isn't signing there to be a #3 QB, so that tells you that Purdy is probably not an option for them in '23, despite anything they are saying publicly. That, or Lance is on the move. There's no way Darnold would sign there with the potential to be an inactive QB on gameday, not with his market.
Oh, and Rodgers to the Jets is very likely done, despite no official announcement. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Jimmy G is a Raider, and Sam Darnold is a 49er. Darnold isn't signing there to be a #3 QB, so that tells you that Purdy is probably not an option for them in '23, despite anything they are saying publicly. That, or Lance is on the move. There's no way Darnold would sign there with the potential to be an inactive QB on gameday, not with his market.
Oh, and Rodgers to the Jets is very likely done, despite no official announcement. |
@12 is one of if not the best QB in the game. He's a disappointment to me. His leaving teams in the dark about where or if he'll sign is primadonna like. In some ways, he reminds me of Farve. If he goes to the Jets making it to the big dance is his only option. If fact IMO he has to win it.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Jimmy G is a Raider, and Sam Darnold is a 49er. Darnold isn't signing there to be a #3 QB, so that tells you that Purdy is probably not an option for them in '23, despite anything they are saying publicly. That, or Lance is on the move. There's no way Darnold would sign there with the potential to be an inactive QB on gameday, not with his market.
Oh, and Rodgers to the Jets is very likely done, despite no official announcement. |
@12 is one of if not the best QB in the game. He's a disappointment to me. His leaving teams in the dark about where or if he'll sign is primadonna like. In some ways, he reminds me of Farve. If he goes to the Jets making it to the big dance is his only option. If fact IMO he has to win it. |
Trey Wingo tweeted that he heard it's done, and 3 Jets players (Garrett Wilson, Sauce Gardner, and Breece Hall) not-so-cryptically alluded to it being done as well. There's been no official announcement, as Rodgers probably wants to announce it himself or have it announced at a certain time, but it feels like it's happening. How much does he have left? Will he feel rejuvenated? Does he try to bring some players like Allen Lazard, Randall Cobb, or Jamaal Williams with him? |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Funny for a QB that wanted to get out of Brett Favre's shadow he's mimicking the same exact moves.... |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Why doesnât Kansas City want Orlando Brown Jr? |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Funny for a QB that wanted to get out of Brett Favre's shadow he's mimicking the same exact moves.... |
So when Aaron Rodgers goes to Minnesota to pair up with Justin Jefferson  . |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Funny for a QB that wanted to get out of Brett Favre's shadow he's mimicking the same exact moves.... |
I love how Rodgers is drawing it out, typical.
Just make the announcement already Ponytail....
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Why doesnât Kansas City want Orlando Brown Jr? |
They think he's going to be too pricey and that Taylor will be a cheaper replacement, and I think he's younger, too. |
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LongBeachPoly
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32
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:34 am Post subject: |
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One of the best running backs in the league.
| Quote: | | Chargers granted permission to RB Austin Ekeler today to seek a trade after the two sides failed to make progress for a new contract, per his agent Cameron Weiss. |
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1635691729423675412?t=srxKepjTY1DEvKCr4D4AuA&s=19
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32
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Aaron Rodgers has provided the NY Jets with a wish-list of free agents he would like them to target and acquire, per sources.
It includes Randall Cobb, Allen Lazard, Marcedes Lewis andâŚ.Odell Beckham Jr. |
https://twitter.com/diannaESPN/status/1635696092791681052?t=Ze1jU8n4NEW0iwLAsnIkdQ&s=19
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:44 am Post subject: |
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More on the link above. If what Michael says is true it's puzzling why the video is being withheld from his lawyer. If the video has been doctored a forensic expert will uncover it. LINK
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Gonna hurt the Chargers offense if he leaves but I can see why they are moving that money towards paying their QB. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: |
Gonna hurt the Chargers offense if he leaves but I can see why they are moving that money towards paying their QB. |
RBs are more and more becoming secondary. You'll have a better passing game if you have a running game, but teams rely more on passing. | Quote: | | So in summation, the highest paid wide receiver will make $2.5 million more than the highest paid running back this year. Mike Evans will be making $27.7 million more than the highest paid running back over the next 3 years. It is clear that NFL teams value wide receivers more. |
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