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Halflife
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 2:09 pm    Post subject:

its nice to see the talking heads acknowledge that the first down was indeed a game changing call. doesn't matter- but at least the cheating is out in the open.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 2:35 pm    Post subject:

ksmgf wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ksmgf wrote:
Palin wrote:
Eagles will grind Chiefs with their running game but at worst it will be good to see Mahomes on pace to pass that cheater Brady


Mahomes is retiring with 8 plus SB rings. No team is stopping them in the next five years.


To pass Terrible Tom, Patrick may have to play at a high level well into his 40s. Some records are almost impossible to break. The Celtics 8 championship in a row, Joe DiMaggio — 56-game hitting streak, Floyd Mayweather — 50-0, Nolan Ryan — 7 no-hitters to mention a few. Key term almost. I don't think Mahomes will do it.


Hes got 3 so far and likely will get his fourth in two weeks. How many does Brady has? 7? I think is doable.


It seems in these parts it is only about counting: counting rings or championships. In football, the QB is of course the most important, but he is one of 11 on offense and 0 of 11 on defense and special teams.

Tom is great and deserves praise but his QB ratings regular/post season/SB are 97/90/97

Mahones is slightly better regular season (+5), quite a bit better post season (+16 ), but less during SB's (-12) (which, of course, is a small body of work), at 102/106/85

Then there is the infamous eye test that many claim is the ultimate answer, but is clearly subjective. I think here, based on our most recent memories, few could claim that Mahones does not pass this in flying colors.

Tom has an advantage due to his long career, but I don't think Mahones is that far behind.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 4:07 pm    Post subject:

^ Ring counting isn't something that is an LG exclusive. When ranking players, it's literally at the crux of every conversation be it former players, talking heads, pundits, fans. We can talk about how much weight a championship holds but to say it's something that is held in high esteem only around these parts isn't true at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:05 pm    Post subject:

The "catch" was worse than the tush push play.

But the refs were horrible on both.

NFL is like pro-wrestling.

I'll root for the Eagles. But I expect the refs will secure the 3-peat.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:07 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
^ Ring counting isn't something that is an LG exclusive. When ranking players, it's literally at the crux of every conversation be it former players, talking heads, pundits, fans. We can talk about how much weight a championship holds but to say it's something that is held in high esteem only around these parts isn't true at all.


They do tend to be held in high esteem, until that is, you bring up:

Sam Jones, Tommy Heinhohn, KC Jones, Satch Sanders, John Havlicek, Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey, Robert Horry, Jim Pollard, Slater Martin, Larry Siefried, Don Nelson, Michael Cooper, Derek Fisher

all among those with five or more, and you get, well, um, er, ah, um, they don't count, or something like that.

Sure, rings matter to individuals; achievement is part of life. They also matter to talk show hosts, to fill up a segment or two, to fans in forums, to have something to bicker about. But they are team achievements, that yes, certain players play a greater role in such achievement, but it is not golf or tennis or any individual sport. Michael, for me is the GOAT, not for his rings, though, yes they matter, but for everything he did in total, including his individual achievement post season, especially his six Bill Russell awards.
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Last edited by ribeye on Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wilt
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:10 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
ksmgf wrote:
jodeke wrote:
ksmgf wrote:
Palin wrote:
Eagles will grind Chiefs with their running game but at worst it will be good to see Mahomes on pace to pass that cheater Brady


Mahomes is retiring with 8 plus SB rings. No team is stopping them in the next five years.


To pass Terrible Tom, Patrick may have to play at a high level well into his 40s. Some records are almost impossible to break. The Celtics 8 championship in a row, Joe DiMaggio — 56-game hitting streak, Floyd Mayweather — 50-0, Nolan Ryan — 7 no-hitters to mention a few. Key term almost. I don't think Mahomes will do it.


Hes got 3 so far and likely will get his fourth in two weeks. How many does Brady has? 7? I think is doable.


It seems in these parts it is only about counting: counting rings or championships. In football, the QB is of course the most important, but he is one of 11 on offense and 0 of 11 on defense and special teams.

Tom is great and deserves praise but his QB ratings regular/post season/SB are 97/90/97

Mahones is slightly better regular season (+5), quite a bit better post season (+16 ), but less during SB's (-12) (which, of course, is a small body of work), at 102/106/85

Then there is the infamous eye test that many claim is the ultimate answer, but is clearly subjective. I think here, based on our most recent memories, few could claim that Mahones does not pass this in flying colors.

Tom has an advantage due to his long career, but I don't think Mahones is that far behind.


One of those Super Bowls was when Mahomes was running for his life the entire game because his offensive line was non-existent. Considering the circumstances, he did a good job.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 5:12 pm    Post subject:

Wilt wrote:


One of those Super Bowls was when Mahomes was running for his life the entire game because his offensive line was non-existent. Considering the circumstances, he did a good job.


Excellent point that I forgot about. And to that, most great QB's have good to great offensive lines. Early in the season, when the Rams o line was injured, Stafford did not fare well. Later, in a game Havenstein missed, Stafford was sub par.

To which, shows why I believe you first get your QB, then you get an O line, then you go from there.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:39 pm    Post subject:

I don’t know where I saw this written, but it’s basically how I feel:
ever since the Chiefs drafted Taylor Swift…They are undefeated and the NFL is clearly happy with that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 6:44 pm    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
I don’t know where I saw this written, but it’s basically how I feel:
ever since the Chiefs drafted Taylor Swift…They are undefeated and the NFL is clearly happy with that.


Here's something I just saw, and I think I mentioned the first one already:

--The Chiefs have now been called for fewer penalties than their opponent for 11 consecutive playoff games.

--In the divisional round victory over the Texans, the Texans lost the game despite outgaining the Chiefs in yardage and not committing a single turnover; that hadn't happened in the previous 49 such playoff games.

--The Bills became the first team in the 2025 NFL playoffs to lose a game even though it won the turnover margin.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:15 pm    Post subject:

I told Jodeke the same thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:45 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Refs are human and make mistakes,


Sure. But one has to put that in the context of what has been occurring with the Chiefs.

Take jodeke's mindset for example: There are good refs and bad refs.

So, how is it that the "bad" refs always end up working the Chiefs games? More questionably, why do those bad refs make all their bad calls in a way that consistently helps the Chiefs, but doesn't make those bad calls for their opponents?

That's just statistically improbable over the time period of years that we are talking about.

Quote:
replay helps but the league has made more and more rules because of fan outrage, to the point that it is almost impossible to call the game.


Replay hasn't made it any harder to call the game properly. The rules haven't changed. Even if one says that the replay has made refs self-conscious about making certain calls, replay provides the perfect backup. So no, it hasn't made it "impossible" to call the games.

Quote:
But saying that the league purposely calls games to benefit one team is to admit that you have no idea how to run a billion dollar corporation. Because being proven to fix games would be destroying the money making machine. The NFL can’t allow that.


You're assuming that influencing outcomes has to involve a full blown conspiracy that can be proven and brought down by a giant smoking gun.

It is entirely possible to give unofficial, off the record directives to employees regarding how to ref certain games in order to increase the odds of a win for a specific team; and to do so in a way with very little risk to exposure, or consequences if there is.

From my background working first in the advertising world, and then in the entertainment business, I know plenty about how billion dollar corporations based in entertainment and advertising driven revenue think and do business; if they can find a way to maximize their profits derived from increased popularity (which leads to increased advertising revenue), then they are going to seize that opportunity as best they can, even if degree of risk is involved.

The huge increase in the popularity of the NFL involving an increase in the demographic of young women due to Taylor Swift becoming a diehard Chiefs fan has been well documented. Of course they NFL is going to try and maximize their profits based on that phenomenon. They'd be foolish not to.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 7:49 pm    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
I don’t know where I saw this written, but it’s basically how I feel:
ever since the Chiefs drafted Taylor Swift…They are undefeated and the NFL is clearly happy with that.


You just summed up in a single sentence what I tried to express in an entire paragraph (might even have been 2 paragraphs).
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 8:50 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I told Jodeke the same thing.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think fixing would involve too many factions. From the top down.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:09 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I told Jodeke the same thing.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think fixing would involve too many factions. From the top down.


It doesn't. It just takes a wink and a nod understanding that a few "questionable" calls at the right time can change the outcome a game. It's not complicated at all. And if you are doing it right, it can be very profitable.

I'm not sure if you know this, but the NFL is in business to make money above all else. They were against embracing social advancement and inclusion and until they realized they could profit off it.

If you think they wouldn't exploit officiating to make more money, you haven't been paying attention.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:23 pm    Post subject:

That line judge on the far sideline had a view of the ball and ran out to where he saw the ball had reached. And he was clearly past the first down marker. The official on the near side had NO view of the ball and ran out behind the line to gain. As the 2 refs got closer, the far side ref took a step to his left and they marked the Bills short. It was blatant.

I can't stand either team and will be watching the SB for the commercials this year with ZERO rooting interest. I hear we should be getting some pretty cool movie trailers though, so thats something to look forward too I guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 9:24 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
jodeke wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I told Jodeke the same thing.



I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think fixing would involve too many factions. From the top down.


It doesn't. It just takes a wink and a nod understanding that a few "questionable" calls at the right time can change the outcome a game. It's not complicated at all. And if you are doing it right, it can be very profitable.

I'm not sure if you know this, but the NFL is in business to make money above all else
. They were against embracing social advancement and inclusion and until they realized they could profit off it.

If you think they wouldn't exploit officiating to make more money, you haven't been paying attention.


Of course, I know that.

I understand the possibilities of what you're saying. I just don't believe it's happening. IMO there's too much at stake to risk winking and nodding. A slip of the lip could be disastrous.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:21 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I told Jodeke the same thing.


I was just going to post this, I was dying after Bill's line about Pilot's pants!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:24 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
I don’t know where I saw this written, but it’s basically how I feel:
ever since the Chiefs drafted Taylor Swift…They are undefeated and the NFL is clearly happy with that.


You just summed up in a single sentence what I tried to express in an entire paragraph (might even have been 2 paragraphs).

"Millions more eyeballs on our product? Yes, lets do whatever we can to make that happen."
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:35 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
I don’t know where I saw this written, but it’s basically how I feel:
ever since the Chiefs drafted Taylor Swift…They are undefeated and the NFL is clearly happy with that.


Here's something I just saw, and I think I mentioned the first one already:

--The Chiefs have now been called for fewer penalties than their opponent for 11 consecutive playoff games.

--In the divisional round victory over the Texans, the Texans lost the game despite outgaining the Chiefs in yardage and not committing a single turnover; that hadn't happened in the previous 49 such playoff games.

--The Bills became the first team in the 2025 NFL playoffs to lose a game even though it won the turnover margin.

I think the very simple staple of all Pro sports, the home court/home Field advantage is proof of rigging: games should be called the same no matter the venue yet somehow, all fans, and all media are aware that there is a slight advantage, a slight "rigging" for the hosts.
that is the bias that ref defenders refuse to acknowledge, yet it's right in front of them.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:07 pm    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
kikanga wrote:
I told Jodeke the same thing.


I was just going to post this, I was dying after Bill's line about Pilot's pants!


The part I loved given the context of this discussion:

Eisen: So you won’t watch the Super Bowl?

Burr: I think I’ll live. I’ve seen about 50 of ‘em.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:25 am    Post subject:

Additional thing to consider: Someone mentioned replay in tennis versus the NFL. Tennis has the ability to show where a tennis ball lands to within a fraction of an inch. So the NFL could easily take the guesswork out whether a football reached the line of gain or not. It stands to reason that there’s a reason they haven’t; like being able to control the outcome of that guesswork.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:30 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Additional thing to consider: Someone mentioned replay in tennis versus the NFL. Tennis has the ability to show where a tennis ball lands to within a fraction of an inch. So the NFL could easily take the guesswork out whether a football reached the line of gain or not. It stands to reason that there’s a reason they haven’t; like being able to control the outcome of that guesswork.

As the United Football League nears completion of its first season since the XFL-USFL merger, the NFL is studying its TrU Line ball-spotting technology with plans to continue testing this summer during its preseason games.

The technology has provided what UFL officials said has been reliable assessments of whether a ball has reached the line to gain. It does not replace the referee's responsibility to place the ball in the correct spot but eliminates the need for a traditional "chain gang" to determine first downs.
ESPN
Kevin Seifert
Jun 13, 2024, 06:30 AM ET
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:36 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Additional thing to consider: Someone mentioned replay in tennis versus the NFL. Tennis has the ability to show where a tennis ball lands to within a fraction of an inch. So the NFL could easily take the guesswork out whether a football reached the line of gain or not. It stands to reason that there’s a reason they haven’t; like being able to control the outcome of that guesswork.

As the United Football League nears completion of its first season since the XFL-USFL merger, the NFL is studying its TrU Line ball-spotting technology with plans to continue testing this summer during its preseason games.

The technology has provided what UFL officials said has been reliable assessments of whether a ball has reached the line to gain. It does not replace the referee's responsibility to place the ball in the correct spot but eliminates the need for a traditional "chain gang" to determine first downs.
ESPN
Kevin Seifert
Jun 13, 2024, 06:30 AM ET

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:22 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Additional thing to consider: Someone mentioned replay in tennis versus the NFL. Tennis has the ability to show where a tennis ball lands to within a fraction of an inch. So the NFL could easily take the guesswork out whether a football reached the line of gain or not. It stands to reason that there’s a reason they haven’t; like being able to control the outcome of that guesswork.


Unlike tennis there are a lot of big bodies between the camera and the ball, that would impact the value of using a similar system. A transmitter inside the ball? I’m not sure if technology is there, but that would open up the number of people who could hack the system. I don’t think that technology is the answer, fans will continue to see what they are looking for.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Additional thing to consider: Someone mentioned replay in tennis versus the NFL. Tennis has the ability to show where a tennis ball lands to within a fraction of an inch. So the NFL could easily take the guesswork out whether a football reached the line of gain or not. It stands to reason that there’s a reason they haven’t; like being able to control the outcome of that guesswork.


Unlike tennis there are a lot of big bodies between the camera and the ball, that would impact the value of using a similar system. A transmitter inside the ball? I’m not sure if technology is there, but that would open up the number of people who could hack the system. I don’t think that technology is the answer, fans will continue to see what they are looking for.


Or, conversely, ignore what they do see.

As for the technology, as was posted, it exists and the NFL is looking at it, but there are questions as to how to implement that makes one wonder.
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