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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Unleash Austin
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“The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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Zillethai
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Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 2627
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Threatt_Level wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
First of all my reaction was to the hyperbole of someone saying he's not close to a third option on a championship team
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If we had Peak LeBron and Peak Anthony Davis, this team could get away with Reaves as a 3rd option on a championship team. But we have old LeBron and old-ish AD, so Reaves doesn't cut it as a 3rd option, because he's not a 2-way player. On a championship team, Reaves is a 6th man. |
Thank you. I dont know why this is so difficult to grasp. |
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zambia
Star Player
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1510
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | Zillethai wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | Kyrie has the best handles in the league.
In 1068 minutes, he lost the ball 18 times this season
In 932 minutes, Austin lost the ball 20 times.
I'm not really impressed with Austin's handles but his numbers seem okay.
In 1015 minutes Bron lost the ball 24 times even with his superior strength and wingspan.
In 553 minutes Ja Morant lost the ball 15 times.
In 1009 minutes, Donovan Mitchell lost the ball 27 times.
Once again, you see the Fantastic Sam's haircut and bird like chest with the T-Rex arms and assume he's worse than he is.
ETA:
Just noticed in 1265 minutes De'Aaron Fox lost the ball 50 times.
Even if you upped Austin's usage it's hard to imagine his handles would be that loose. |
Another lazy analysis. There's more to being a point guard than turnovers. Its decision making... making the correct read, not panicking under stress,
having the necessary handle to get to your spots... to get to opportune spots for the team, being able to dribble out of doubleteams,& traps etc. AR is not good at any of this.
Further, of those players you listed...how many of those turnovers came from those players actually running point?
Again... its more than Austin's ridiculous hair-cut, his teenager physic, his concave chest, terrible posture...
Its about his ability to calmly direct traffic as a pg. |
Reaves had a bad game today. Avdija just destroyed him and he couldn't hit his threes.
Yet still in a bad game he had 15 points, 8 rebounds, 11 assists.
Steve Nash didn't have four consecutive double doubles with points and assists until he was almost 30. (Austin just had his fourth double double)
Austin had that ridiculous turnover where he was wrestling with the ball on the floor. But he only lost the ball one time.
When I said lost balls, I'm not talking about turnovers.
I'm talking about specifically getting stripped and losing possession as opposed to throwing the ball away.
Austin looks really bad sometimes when he's not paying attention.
He made a stupid pass behind his back towards the end of the game.
But you guys said his handles are loose so I looked it up and they are pretty normal, even though it's white knuckle time when he's doing behind the back crossovers.
He's a good ballhandler according to the stats and when given control of the offense without the second best player on the floor, he still got double digit assists.
He also should have had 13 or 14 assists because players missed two wide open threes and one bunny.
Again that was a bad game from Austin.
Avidja just bullied him all night and Camara did too (We should look into those players instead of Jerami Grant.)
But in spite of the bad game he had another near triple double.
You should focus on another player to hate because it looks like Austin and Max are going to be the core for our future. |
AR will be used in the future Fox trade. I would love to see a backcourt of Fox and Max.
AR is doing a great job of raising his trade value.
Last edited by zambia on Fri Jan 03, 2025 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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levon
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Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 14360
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 11:12 am Post subject: |
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If he ups his 3pt volume slightly and keeps up this overall level of usage, he's basically Trae Young with better defense, better efficiency, and a fourth of the contract. I've always thought Maxey could be another comp for a high volume Reaves.
This could all be a flash in the pan, but if Austin Reaves just becomes a walking points-assists double-double while inhaling like 7 rebounds a game, I'm going to lose even more respect for counting stats in the modern game. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 20414
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | If he ups his 3pt volume slightly and keeps up this overall level of usage, he's basically Trae Young with better defense, better efficiency, and a fourth of the contract. I've always thought Maxey could be another comp for a high volume Reaves.
This could all be a flash in the pan, but if Austin Reaves just becomes a walking points-assists double-double while inhaling like 7 rebounds a game, I'm going to lose even more respect for counting stats in the modern game. |
This is why I find the Steve Nash comps annoying. Nash existed in the context of another NBA with lower counting stats across the board. In any case, Nash was Jokic-esque in his way to be the engine of a league best offense, and comparing Reaves to Nash based on counting stats is disingenuous. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 11:51 am Post subject: |
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If Reaves keep playing the way he is playing, I don't know why you'd give up assets for Fox who would put up the same numbers in a 3rd option role but would be a worse shooter.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5864
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | levon wrote: | If he ups his 3pt volume slightly and keeps up this overall level of usage, he's basically Trae Young with better defense, better efficiency, and a fourth of the contract. I've always thought Maxey could be another comp for a high volume Reaves.
This could all be a flash in the pan, but if Austin Reaves just becomes a walking points-assists double-double while inhaling like 7 rebounds a game, I'm going to lose even more respect for counting stats in the modern game. |
This is why I find the Steve Nash comps annoying. Nash existed in the context of another NBA with lower counting stats across the board. In any case, Nash was Jokic-esque in his way to be the engine of a league best offense, and comparing Reaves to Nash based on counting stats is disingenuous. |
If you read my long winded posts, I didn't say Reaves was Nash.
I said he's on a trajectory where his counting numbers could exceed Nash while some of you are trying to give up the farm for Fox or Kessler.
I just made a long post that criticized his play last night in a win over a weak team.
I've said over and over that Reaves doesn't shoot as well as Nash.
I've also said that he hasn't shown the vision of Nash
I said that if DLo didn't f*ck around he was a better player than Reaves.
I've said I wanted to get Lonzo on a minimum or exception because of his potential to be that special playmaker and defender because he does what Reaves cannot.
But even if Reaves isn't Nash, he's still really good and I use whatever counting statistics we have because people will just declare with no proof that he has bad handles or he's not a true third option.
He is a good third option for a championship team, it's the one and two options who are no longer what they used to be that would stop us from succeeding.
Fox isn't a great idea because he's an expensive third option that might not be good enough to be a championship quality first or second option.
If you just signed Fox, he would be excellent but you don't trade half your team and picks for him when you have Reaves.
Even the emergence of Max makes me question whether we need to add another guard.
You have to take cost into account, especially if Jeanie refuses to move away from Bron.
Bron did great last night and is still amazing for his age, but if we keep him beyond one year, we will need these cheap assets and draft picks to fill in holes as he declines.
If you have a truly deteriorated Bron, AD, and Fox with two or three less rotation players and no draft picks, it will be an ugly sight.
If you have old Bron, AD and Kessler with two or three less rotaion players and no draft picks it will be even worse.
I support Reaves because he's extremely good value and still improving.
I can't help it that his counting numbers are still on pace to exceed Nash. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 20414
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't read all of that but you are bringing up his counting numbers being on pace to exceed Nash to imply something about his value, what I am saying is that (1) counting stats are easier to come by now and (2) Nash's value is not represented by his numbers. It's one thing to be like "neat his numbers look Nash-like" but another to make the implication ("he's Nash-like numbers, why would we trade him for X"). If you're doing the latter then it's only fair to contextualize.
My post is agnostic about trading Reaves btw. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| AR just need to hit the weight room and do some major core training... It will help his strength and balance so much... Also might improve his speed a bit. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2025 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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Daniels bothered him tonight, but I don’t think AR will ever be good against that type of long POA defender
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5864
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2025 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Daniels bothered him tonight, but I don’t think AR will ever be good against that type of long POA defender |
Yeah this is his Achilles heel.
Also he looked exhausted tonight. He and Max looked like the 40 year olds.
But it was nice to win even playing poorly (except Bron)
I think Austin tries to emulate Bron by taking the ball down slow and backing into his defenders but his arms aren't long enough and he's not strong enough to ward players like Dyson off.
He needs to develop his own style and not let the defense get set.
Austin's not going to win against long wings with a deliberate slow pace.
He needs to play hurry up offense like the NFL against teams like Detroit or Atlanta. |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7785
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2025 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| It is crazy. His bad games are now becoming pretty good. As Governator says, "UNLEASH THE BEAST." |
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Dr. Laker
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Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17939
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| Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2025 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | Daniels bothered him tonight, but I don’t think AR will ever be good against that type of long POA defender |
ALL PGs are bothered by long POA players, which is why they are such a sought after commodity. That's why good teams have multiple initiators.
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Lakersfan1211
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| His defense is really really bad. It feels like whenever anybody ISOs on him they score 90% of the time. |
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TMG
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Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 9631
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Rooting for you AR. You've been fantastic for most of the season.
Hoping he can develop his defense so teams cant just punish him. |
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Lakersfan1211
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021
Posts: 8218
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | His defense is really really bad. It feels like whenever anybody ISOs on him they score 90% of the time. |
This ^ pretty much. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Ksig wrote: | | His defense is really really bad. It feels like whenever anybody ISOs on him they score 90% of the time. |
His defense has fallen off even more more this year with more offensive responsibility.
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 9008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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With Max now starting. AR will be targeted even harder now on the defensive end.
Last 2 games are clear examples of that. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 14973
Location: Boulder ;)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Did PJ Washington intentionally elbow Resves in the chops?
Or did the elbow not connect and I was confused |
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 9:54 am Post subject: |
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That second quote is kind of a wanker quote. It just says they tried to cook Reaves. How successful were they? I vividly remember him trying to get that offensive foul on Washington and getting a 3 in his face, but then he also won a battle on the baseline against Hardy.
His defensive impact metrics so far are back at his 2022 days after falling off badly last season. His individual shotmaking has been bad, however. Can't get open shots to fall at all. Not sure if he's rushing them or what. |
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Brawn13
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Joined: 30 Jan 2019
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: |
That second quote is kind of a wanker quote. It just says they tried to cook Reaves. How successful were they? I vividly remember him trying to get that offensive foul on Washington and getting a 3 in his face, but then he also won a battle on the baseline against Hardy.
His defensive impact metrics so far are back at his 2022 days after falling off badly last season. His individual shotmaking has been bad, however. Can't get open shots to fall at all. Not sure if he's rushing them or what. |
He wasn’t a good shooter in college. 2023 was an aberration. He’s an ok shooter, nothing more |
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LakersRGolden
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 8215
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| That 1 assist in 32 minutes was a game changer. |
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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Brawn13 wrote: | | levon wrote: |
That second quote is kind of a wanker quote. It just says they tried to cook Reaves. How successful were they? I vividly remember him trying to get that offensive foul on Washington and getting a 3 in his face, but then he also won a battle on the baseline against Hardy.
His defensive impact metrics so far are back at his 2022 days after falling off badly last season. His individual shotmaking has been bad, however. Can't get open shots to fall at all. Not sure if he's rushing them or what. |
He wasn’t a good shooter in college. 2023 was an aberration. He’s an ok shooter, nothing more |
It's not black and white as that. You don't stick in the NBA as an undrafted player because you stayed at your same "undrafted college level" without improving.
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governator
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| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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AR is not our problem
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