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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21750 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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I guess help defense is a thing of the past? Pull AD out, screen until you get a guard on an island in a mismatch, score as a couple other Lakers turn into spectators? Then giggle as the Lakers trade away any talent they have at guard to fix the problem?
It just seems a bit too easy for opponents to create mismatches then get no resistance from the backup defender if AD is taken out of the play. I'm sure I'm missing something here. |
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Kblo247! Star Player

Joined: 05 Oct 2015 Posts: 5392
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | People need to stop waiting on Vincent to replicate his 3 game run from 2 years ago and focus on the players that can actually play well on a consistent basis. There are players that have had multiple good SEASONS that don't get as much benefit of the doubt as Vincent has for 3-4 games. |
You can lie and say 3-4 games. But dude played 22 games, was the third leading scorer, third in minutes, second in assists, top 5 in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 1st in charges all while starting on a team that made the nba finals. He shot 41% from the field for the playoffs, and he hit 38% of his threes, even while playing most his run on an ankle he sprained bs the Knicks. He played more playoff games than your boy Dlo played in a a run, was a better shooter for the whole run, and he made an nba finals while starting and closing games.
Hell gabe just played in December and for the month averaged 43% from the field, 44% from theee, in 23 minutes per on 14 games :.. I mean you can say stop hoping for Gabe but Gabe for 22 games showed you at best he’s better than playoff Dlo for stretches as Dlo has never played a “3-4 games” which were really 6 like he played vs Boston where he shot 49/52/94 splits and averaged 16 versus the Celtics in the playoffs. And at worst he plays a stretch of games like his whole 22 game playoff run and he’s at his worst day Dlos equal or at best his better |
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hype Star Player


Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4510 Location: Lake Nacimiento
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Kblo247! wrote: | MJST wrote: | People need to stop waiting on Vincent to replicate his 3 game run from 2 years ago and focus on the players that can actually play well on a consistent basis. There are players that have had multiple good SEASONS that don't get as much benefit of the doubt as Vincent has for 3-4 games. |
You can lie and say 3-4 games. But dude played 22 games, was the third leading scorer, third in minutes, second in assists, top 5 in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 1st in charges all while starting on a team that made the nba finals. He shot 41% from the field for the playoffs, and he hit 38% of his threes, even while playing most his run on an ankle he sprained bs the Knicks. He played more playoff games than your boy Dlo played in a a run, was a better shooter for the whole run, and he made an nba finals while starting and closing games.
Hell gabe just played in December and for the month averaged 43% from the field, 44% from theee, in 23 minutes per on 14 games :.. I mean you can say stop hoping for Gabe but Gabe for 22 games showed you at best he’s better than playoff Dlo for stretches as Dlo has never played a “3-4 games” which were really 6 like he played vs Boston where he shot 49/52/94 splits and averaged 16 versus the Celtics in the playoffs. And at worst he plays a stretch of games like his whole 22 game playoff run and he’s at his worst day Dlos equal or at best his better |
Dlo couldn't even mentally handle Denver's defense and trash talking, he would have been eaten alive by Boston  |
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MJST Retired Number


Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 29108
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Kblo247! wrote: | MJST wrote: | People need to stop waiting on Vincent to replicate his 3 game run from 2 years ago and focus on the players that can actually play well on a consistent basis. There are players that have had multiple good SEASONS that don't get as much benefit of the doubt as Vincent has for 3-4 games. | You can lie and say 3-4 games. But dude played 22 games, was the third leading scorer, third in minutes, second in assists, top 5 in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 1st in charges all while starting on a team that made the nba finals. He shot 41% from the field for the playoffs, and he hit 38% of his t |
He averaged 13/4 in the Playoffs on that run, and then averaged 11 on 38% from the field against Denver and in the last 3 games of that series averaged 5 points on 20% from the field and .07% from three. But you could do nothing but criticize Dlo who averaged 14 on 38% from the field against Denver. But you think Gabe did "better". You're funny They both struggled against Denver, and Gabe struggled more so. But it's okay cause his name isn't D'Angelo Russell so you won't criticize that so harshly
Kblo247! wrote: |
Hell gabe just played in December and for the month averaged 43% from the field, 44% from theee, in 23 minutes per on 14 games :.. I mean you can say stop hoping for Gabe but Gabe f |
Yeah yeeah yeah and DLo was playing 25 minutes a game coming off the bench and averaged 14 on 47% from the field and 38% from three and that didn't mean diddly squat to you. And unlike Gabe Vincent DLo has had actual entire seasons that he played at a high level. Vincent's got a few Playoff games, but yet you'll try to give him the benefit of the doubt while ignoring the entire rest of his career.
Again, Gabe Vincent gets more benefit of the doubt for that small stretch of the Playoffs while the rest of his career gets ignored, over players that actually play at high levels for entire seasons.
Gabe Vincent is what he is. Your reality is hoping for him to somehow recapture what he did for a few games in the Playoffs years ago and trying to turn blind eyes to his 0 point performances and consistent falling in defensive percentiles. Having faith in Gabe at this point to be more than what he is, is essentially gaslighting yourself.
Gabe is gonna be a 5-7 ppg guy that shoots 34% from three 9 times out of 10 and you'll be hoping that multiple 1 out of 10 times happens in the Playoffs. And he won't.
Gabe had a nice 11 game stretch this season so far, but it was one of the many brief hot streaks he's had in his career where he'll flash potential and then go back to doing what he did prior.
Gabe is what he is at this point, expecting more will just lead to disappointment. Accepting that he's a 5-7 ppg guy at best that is a mid at best three point shooter that will occasionally have a hot streak is the best and all to expect from him. hype wrote: |
Dlo couldn't even mentally handle Denver's defense and trash talking, he would have been eaten alive by Boston  |
Dlo outperformed Vincent vs Denver actually. And he also lead the Lakers to beating Boston without LeBron or AD playing. But that's neither here nor there anymore. Vincent's all we've got as a backup to Reaves in that regard until we replace him. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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TMG Star Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 9527
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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I like how we say DLO lead the team to the win and just pushing AR into the background as if didn't have 32 pts that game
We're just conveniently leaving that stuff off
The DLO love from some is bizzare at this point. You'd think he was a laker legend being disrespected.
DLO has done (bleep) all for this franchise aside from one decent season last year and 2 rounds of playoff where he looked decent.
Edit: I forgot to say a decent regular season! We all know what happened in the post season!
Last edited by TMG on Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21750 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Rumor has it someone started an Austin Reaves thread.
Sorry to interrupt. |
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MJST Retired Number


Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 29108
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:20 am Post subject: |
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TMG wrote: | I like how we say DLO lead the team to the win and just pushing AR into the background as if didn't have 32 pts that game
We're just conveniently leaving that stuff off |
Yes, when you have 14 assists generally you're the orchestrator of the offense. Of course Reaves had a great game. But the subject was about DLo being unable to somehow step up against the Celtics. He already showed he could. And not being able to handle the pressure of the Celtics has consistently been Kyrie's problem, but nobody was worried about that when they wanted him. And if the Lakers had a chance at him now, the same fans likely wouldn't factor that into whether they wanted him or not either.
TMG wrote: |
DLO has done (bleep) all for this franchise aside from one decent season last year and 2 rounds of playoff where he looked decent.
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He helped take us from being a lottery team that we were with Westbrook into a Western conference finals team. Don't hate on Reaves not getting mentioned, and then try to diminish the WCF run. Can't have it both ways.
Anyway this is an Austin Reaves thread, so let's get back to that. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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mhan00 Retired Number


Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 33692
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 2:52 am Post subject: |
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ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | governator wrote: | AR is not our problem |
Fans can't seem to grasp the main problem is that we have a 40 yr old Batman. Charles Barkley eluded to this, but he stopped short of pointing his finger at our Batman and Robin. He says we keep blaming everyone else, fingers always pointed elsewhere. |
Bron still doing amazing things but I noticed the ball stop too many times and he dribbles around too long like he was going to take a shot while 4 guys stand around not knowing what to expect... |
The big issue is probably on defense. In the Mavs game, Bron basically didn’t move on D for the last quarter and a half of the game. A lot of the open looks the <avs got were because one of our guys wasn’t rotating, and other guys were trying to make up for it, which isn’t a good recipe for success when they’re already pretty slow on the perimeter. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:02 am Post subject: |
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mhan00 wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | governator wrote: | AR is not our problem |
Fans can't seem to grasp the main problem is that we have a 40 yr old Batman. Charles Barkley eluded to this, but he stopped short of pointing his finger at our Batman and Robin. He says we keep blaming everyone else, fingers always pointed elsewhere. |
Bron still doing amazing things but I noticed the ball stop too many times and he dribbles around too long like he was going to take a shot while 4 guys stand around not knowing what to expect... |
The big issue is probably on defense. In the Mavs game, Bron basically didn’t move on D for the last quarter and a half of the game. A lot of the open looks the <avs got were because one of our guys wasn’t rotating, and other guys were trying to make up for it, which isn’t a good recipe for success when they’re already pretty slow on the perimeter. |
AR isn’t THE problem but he certainly is one of them. It’s denial imo to not acknowledge that. His defensive liability against the opposing starters has to be overcome with his scoring…sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t…but it is a major deficiency with the current roster. Ideally, AR could thrive as the 1st guard off the bench, backing up both back court positions but a better starting PG is needed for that to work.
LBJ is producing good enough to compete for a ship with a properly constructed roster. The appropriate compliment of teammates is more necessary now than before however since he unable to make up for a poorly constructed roster as he did in the 2020 for the ship.
The problem is the same as it’s been for a long time, the lack of the sense of urgency for getting a big body rebounding defensive back up C. Dwight was acquired from the scrap heap, out of the league when acquired mid season then dumped after the ship. Trezs/Gasol failed and Drummond was added from the buyout but was passed on at vet min after the season as well. Deandre didn’t work so TBryant was tried and dumped I suppose as a result of his ego. The right back up C and starting PG would be the best plan to put this team on a ship trajectory.
AR could be a valuable contributor used appropriately but starting PG ain’t that. _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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Japago Star Player

Joined: 21 Jun 2018 Posts: 2372
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:04 am Post subject: |
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AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I wish we could just let go emotionally of the other guy that’s now gone. Last year’s numbers justified retention, this year’s didn’t. Either way, the Lakers need a starting PG that plays defense, shoots (and makes lol!) 3s, makes plays, and takes care of the ball. Get that with a big body defender at back up C and the Lakers are in business. Vincent/Vando/JHS/Wood have been missing or not contributing, that’s $28.6m, plus 2FRPs, to fix the holes. I’ve lost faith that it will be done. _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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TMG Star Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 9527
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:18 am Post subject: |
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TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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TMG Star Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 9527
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. |
Yeah sure he's not the best defender but comparing both of them it's not even close as to who i'd want. If both of those guys have bad defense i'll go with the guy who has more to his game on offense. Reaves shouldn't be starting games. He's put in a bad position having to be the starting PG. But from the looks of it nobody is coming in so this is what we have. Im all for Rob retaining the picks and just going with what we have.
Will be fun seeing Reaves-Christie-Dalton development.
Season is a wash regardless imo. Team isn't competing for a title. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:30 am Post subject: |
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TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. |
Yeah sure he's not the best defender but comparing both of them it's not even close as to who i'd want. If both of those guys have bad defense i'll go with the guy who has more to his game on offense. Reaves shouldn't be starting games. He's put in a bad position having to be the starting PG. But from the looks of it nobody is coming in so this is what we have. Im all for Rob retaining the picks and just going with what we have.
Will be fun seeing Reaves-Christie-Dalton development.
Season is a wash regardless imo. Team isn't competing for a title. |
Rob probably agrees with you the way he has moved, I hate that! 😤
It actually looks like an UPGRADED Lakers…currently flirting with 4th in a stacked West as is…could compete for a title with a back up C and a better starting PG and have the assets to pursue it. I don’t know why some fans and Rob don’t see that. It’s ok to disagree, we just see things differently, and that’s cool too. We’re likely headed for a long disappointing era. Rebuilding doesn’t usually work but anything could happen I guess.
Still…I just don’t get it…if the team shows the possibility to compete how could it not be pursued? It’s not like the the Lakers are in the position of the Pelicans/Kings/Suns. How could a fan…I get the FO and that could be to save/make money…prefer to not try based on the circumstances?
I want to see Reeves/Max/Knecht develop too, along with…not instead of…going for a title. The Lakers, currently in playoff standings, clearly imo show that potential. The “we’re gonna lose anyway so let’s not try” belief doesn’t seem reasonable because it doesn’t look like “we’re gonna lose anyway” is true based on the standings. It actually does seem like the team could win if they tried with upgrades. _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on?
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21750 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | mhan00 wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | governator wrote: | AR is not our problem |
Fans can't seem to grasp the main problem is that we have a 40 yr old Batman. Charles Barkley eluded to this, but he stopped short of pointing his finger at our Batman and Robin. He says we keep blaming everyone else, fingers always pointed elsewhere. |
Bron still doing amazing things but I noticed the ball stop too many times and he dribbles around too long like he was going to take a shot while 4 guys stand around not knowing what to expect... |
The big issue is probably on defense. In the Mavs game, Bron basically didn’t move on D for the last quarter and a half of the game. A lot of the open looks the <avs got were because one of our guys wasn’t rotating, and other guys were trying to make up for it, which isn’t a good recipe for success when they’re already pretty slow on the perimeter. |
AR isn’t THE problem but he certainly is one of them. It’s denial imo to not acknowledge that. His defensive liability against the opposing starters has to be overcome with his scoring…sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t…but it is a major deficiency with the current roster. Ideally, AR could thrive as the 1st guard off the bench, backing up both back court positions but a better starting PG is needed for that to work.
LBJ is producing good enough to compete for a ship with a properly constructed roster. The appropriate compliment of teammates is more necessary now than before however since he unable to make up for a poorly constructed roster as he did in the 2020 for the ship.
The problem is the same as it’s been for a long time, the lack of the sense of urgency for getting a big body rebounding defensive back up C. Dwight was acquired from the scrap heap, out of the league when acquired mid season then dumped after the ship. Trezs/Gasol failed and Drummond was added from the buyout but was passed on at vet min after the season as well. Deandre didn’t work so TBryant was tried and dumped I suppose as a result of his ego. The right back up C and starting PG would be the best plan to put this team on a ship trajectory.
AR could be a valuable contributor used appropriately but starting PG ain’t that. |
This relates to the question I had at the top of the page, and I agree with what you're saying here, for the most part. Just a couple more thoughts/questions on whether this is on AR or on the team as a whole.
In 2020 we had at least 4 players on the floor willing to play help defense, and by seasons end we had very solid team defense, communication, rotation and help from all 5 in Q4 with the game on the line, even LeBron.
I get all the anger towards AR and before him DLO about not being very good 1:1 defenders, but from what I see they're getting no help from LeBron or Rui when they're left on an island, so the formula teams are following is to pull AD away from the basket, obtain guard mismatches with a few screens, then score at will after getting past the guard who's being targeted. And just repeat this pattern all game, the Lakers don't adjust. Here we expect a guard to shut down 3's and 4's rather than funnel them to solid rim protection, because when AD is pulled out of the paint it's an easy bucket. And then we blame the guard because the help wasn't there.
Am I discounting how much blame AR should be taking here? |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:05 am Post subject: |
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TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | mhan00 wrote: | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | Runway8 wrote: | governator wrote: | AR is not our problem |
Fans can't seem to grasp the main problem is that we have a 40 yr old Batman. Charles Barkley eluded to this, but he stopped short of pointing his finger at our Batman and Robin. He says we keep blaming everyone else, fingers always pointed elsewhere. |
Bron still doing amazing things but I noticed the ball stop too many times and he dribbles around too long like he was going to take a shot while 4 guys stand around not knowing what to expect... |
The big issue is probably on defense. In the Mavs game, Bron basically didn’t move on D for the last quarter and a half of the game. A lot of the open looks the <avs got were because one of our guys wasn’t rotating, and other guys were trying to make up for it, which isn’t a good recipe for success when they’re already pretty slow on the perimeter. |
AR isn’t THE problem but he certainly is one of them. It’s denial imo to not acknowledge that. His defensive liability against the opposing starters has to be overcome with his scoring…sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t…but it is a major deficiency with the current roster. Ideally, AR could thrive as the 1st guard off the bench, backing up both back court positions but a better starting PG is needed for that to work.
LBJ is producing good enough to compete for a ship with a properly constructed roster. The appropriate compliment of teammates is more necessary now than before however since he unable to make up for a poorly constructed roster as he did in the 2020 for the ship.
The problem is the same as it’s been for a long time, the lack of the sense of urgency for getting a big body rebounding defensive back up C. Dwight was acquired from the scrap heap, out of the league when acquired mid season then dumped after the ship. Trezs/Gasol failed and Drummond was added from the buyout but was passed on at vet min after the season as well. Deandre didn’t work so TBryant was tried and dumped I suppose as a result of his ego. The right back up C and starting PG would be the best plan to put this team on a ship trajectory.
AR could be a valuable contributor used appropriately but starting PG ain’t that. |
This relates to the question I had at the top of the page, and I agree with what you're saying here, for the most part. Just a couple more thoughts/questions on whether this is on AR or on the team as a whole.
In 2020 we had at least 4 players on the floor willing to play help defense, and by seasons end we had very solid team defense, communication, rotation and help from all 5 in Q4 with the game on the line, even LeBron.
I get all the anger towards AR and before him DLO about not being very good 1:1 defenders, but from what I see they're getting no help from LeBron or Rui when they're left on an island, so the formula teams are following is to pull AD away from the basket, obtain guard mismatches with a few screens, then score at will after getting past the guard who's being targeted. And just repeat this pattern all game, the Lakers don't adjust. Here we expect a guard to shut down 3's and 4's rather than funnel them to solid rim protection, because when AD is pulled out of the paint it's an easy bucket. And then we blame the guard because the help wasn't there.
Am I discounting how much blame AR should be taking here? |
You’re spot on and nope, you’re not discounting how much the guard is to blame. Much of the blame is the scheme. We agree! Saying AR is A problem by me was to communicate how he’s being used, not necessarily on Him. AR would be great as the 1st guard off the bench at both PG/SG. He could actually work in the starting line up too if the scheme appropriately covered for his deficiency. _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on?
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kblo247! Star Player

Joined: 05 Oct 2015 Posts: 5392
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:05 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Kblo247! wrote: | MJST wrote: | People need to stop waiting on Vincent to replicate his 3 game run from 2 years ago and focus on the players that can actually play well on a consistent basis. There are players that have had multiple good SEASONS that don't get as much benefit of the doubt as Vincent has for 3-4 games. | You can lie and say 3-4 games. But dude played 22 games, was the third leading scorer, third in minutes, second in assists, top 5 in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 1st in charges all while starting on a team that made the nba finals. He shot 41% from the field for the playoffs, and he hit 38% of his t |
He averaged 13/4 in the Playoffs on that run, and then averaged 11 on 38% from the field against Denver and in the last 3 games of that series averaged 5 points on 20% from the field and .07% from three. But you could do nothing but criticize Dlo who averaged 14 on 38% from the field against Denver. But you think Gabe did "better". You're funny They both struggled against Denver, and Gabe struggled more so. But it's okay cause his name isn't D'Angelo Russell so you won't criticize that so harshly
Kblo247! wrote: |
Hell gabe just played in December and for the month averaged 43% from the field, 44% from theee, in 23 minutes per on 14 games :.. I mean you can say stop hoping for Gabe but Gabe f |
Yeah yeeah yeah and DLo was playing 25 minutes a game coming off the bench and averaged 14 on 47% from the field and 38% from three and that didn't mean diddly squat to you. And unlike Gabe Vincent DLo has had actual entire seasons that he played at a high level. Vincent's got a few Playoff games, but yet you'll try to give him the benefit of the doubt while ignoring the entire rest of his career.
Again, Gabe Vincent gets more benefit of the doubt for that small stretch of the Playoffs while the rest of his career gets ignored, over players that actually play at high levels for entire seasons.
Gabe Vincent is what he is. Your reality is hoping for him to somehow recapture what he did for a few games in the Playoffs years ago and trying to turn blind eyes to his 0 point performances and consistent falling in defensive percentiles. Having faith in Gabe at this point to be more than what he is, is essentially gaslighting yourself.
Gabe is gonna be a 5-7 ppg guy that shoots 34% from three 9 times out of 10 and you'll be hoping that multiple 1 out of 10 times happens in the Playoffs. And he won't.
Gabe had a nice 11 game stretch this season so far, but it was one of the many brief hot streaks he's had in his career where he'll flash potential and then go back to doing what he did prior.
Gabe is what he is at this point, expecting more will just lead to disappointment. Accepting that he's a 5-7 ppg guy at best that is a mid at best three point shooter that will occasionally have a hot streak is the best and all to expect from him. hype wrote: |
Dlo couldn't even mentally handle Denver's defense and trash talking, he would have been eaten alive by Boston  |
Dlo outperformed Vincent vs Denver actually. And he also lead the Lakers to beating Boston without LeBron or AD playing. But that's neither here nor there anymore. Vincent's all we've got as a backup to Reaves in that regard until we replace him. |
Dlo outperformed Gabe vs Denver.. Gabe outperformed Him with Bruce Brown there … don’t spin the logic of their damn playoff runs. Gabe averaged 13. Dlo averaged 6 vs the nuggets team that won with KCP and Brown. He averaged 6 on 32% from the field and 13% from three while Bruce Brown called him a (bleep) 😂 which is why he yapped so much about the ist. Don’t sell that bs about Dlo did better than Gabe vs Denver. When they played the same nuggets back to back rounds and Gabe doubled his point total while Dlo went from 17 in the season to 6 points per game for the series and the lakers lost the series by an average of 4 points … I got some math for you, Bruce and KcP dropped his averages by 11 points in a series that the games were decided by 4.
Dlo also has never played a playoff series in his life as well as Gabe played vs Boston. Hell dlo has never played a series let alone a playoff run in his life as well as Austin Reaves has played in his career in the playoffs 🤣. You go sit here and lie and use the next year stats when they met a different Denver team that didn’t have Bruce Brown or Jeff Green, didn’t win the title, and act like these two in Gabe and Dlo didn’t play the champion nuggets back to back rounds. And that Gabe on a sprained still didn’t double the mfs production. Put the damn keyboard down because the lie detector determined your takes are a lie |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Kblo247! wrote: | MJST wrote: | Kblo247! wrote: | MJST wrote: | People need to stop waiting on Vincent to replicate his 3 game run from 2 years ago and focus on the players that can actually play well on a consistent basis. There are players that have had multiple good SEASONS that don't get as much benefit of the doubt as Vincent has for 3-4 games. | You can lie and say 3-4 games. But dude played 22 games, was the third leading scorer, third in minutes, second in assists, top 5 in rebounds, 2nd in steals, and 1st in charges all while starting on a team that made the nba finals. He shot 41% from the field for the playoffs, and he hit 38% of his t |
He averaged 13/4 in the Playoffs on that run, and then averaged 11 on 38% from the field against Denver and in the last 3 games of that series averaged 5 points on 20% from the field and .07% from three. But you could do nothing but criticize Dlo who averaged 14 on 38% from the field against Denver. But you think Gabe did "better". You're funny They both struggled against Denver, and Gabe struggled more so. But it's okay cause his name isn't D'Angelo Russell so you won't criticize that so harshly
Kblo247! wrote: |
Hell gabe just played in December and for the month averaged 43% from the field, 44% from theee, in 23 minutes per on 14 games :.. I mean you can say stop hoping for Gabe but Gabe f |
Yeah yeeah yeah and DLo was playing 25 minutes a game coming off the bench and averaged 14 on 47% from the field and 38% from three and that didn't mean diddly squat to you. And unlike Gabe Vincent DLo has had actual entire seasons that he played at a high level. Vincent's got a few Playoff games, but yet you'll try to give him the benefit of the doubt while ignoring the entire rest of his career.
Again, Gabe Vincent gets more benefit of the doubt for that small stretch of the Playoffs while the rest of his career gets ignored, over players that actually play at high levels for entire seasons.
Gabe Vincent is what he is. Your reality is hoping for him to somehow recapture what he did for a few games in the Playoffs years ago and trying to turn blind eyes to his 0 point performances and consistent falling in defensive percentiles. Having faith in Gabe at this point to be more than what he is, is essentially gaslighting yourself.
Gabe is gonna be a 5-7 ppg guy that shoots 34% from three 9 times out of 10 and you'll be hoping that multiple 1 out of 10 times happens in the Playoffs. And he won't.
Gabe had a nice 11 game stretch this season so far, but it was one of the many brief hot streaks he's had in his career where he'll flash potential and then go back to doing what he did prior.
Gabe is what he is at this point, expecting more will just lead to disappointment. Accepting that he's a 5-7 ppg guy at best that is a mid at best three point shooter that will occasionally have a hot streak is the best and all to expect from him. hype wrote: |
Dlo couldn't even mentally handle Denver's defense and trash talking, he would have been eaten alive by Boston  |
Dlo outperformed Vincent vs Denver actually. And he also lead the Lakers to beating Boston without LeBron or AD playing. But that's neither here nor there anymore. Vincent's all we've got as a backup to Reaves in that regard until we replace him. |
Dlo outperformed Gabe vs Denver.. Gabe outperformed Him with Bruce Brown there … don’t spin the logic of their damn playoff runs. Gabe averaged 13. Dlo averaged 6 vs the nuggets team that won with KCP and Brown. He averaged 6 on 32% from the field and 13% from three while Bruce Brown called him a (bleep) 😂 which is why he yapped so much about the ist. Don’t sell that bs about Dlo did better than Gabe vs Denver. When they played the same nuggets back to back rounds and Gabe doubled his point total while Dlo went from 17 in the season to 6 points per game for the series and the lakers lost the series by an average of 4 points … I got some math for you, Bruce and KcP dropped his averages by 11 points in a series that the games were decided by 4.
Dlo also has never played a playoff series in his life as well as Gabe played vs Boston. Hell dlo has never played a series let alone a playoff run in his life as well as Austin Reaves has played in his career in the playoffs 🤣. You go sit here and lie and use the next year stats when they met a different Denver team that didn’t have Bruce Brown or Jeff Green, didn’t win the title, and act like these two in Gabe and Dlo didn’t play the champion nuggets back to back rounds. And that Gabe on a sprained still didn’t double the mfs production. Put the damn keyboard down because the lie detector determined your takes are a lie |
How? He’s gone and still…unrealistic hate…the Mem/GSW playoff series and regular season imagined out of existence, to insinuate the consistent 0/0/0 Vincent is comparable. Can we just let it go? Move on? Is that possible? I know it may not be, I’ve not moved on from Lopez/Randle/Drummond/Schro so I know how difficult it can be for others to move on too! Let’s all try together 🤣 _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player


Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21750 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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^Absolutely - let's move on to who's on the team now |
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TMG Star Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 9527
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. |
Yeah sure he's not the best defender but comparing both of them it's not even close as to who i'd want. If both of those guys have bad defense i'll go with the guy who has more to his game on offense. Reaves shouldn't be starting games. He's put in a bad position having to be the starting PG. But from the looks of it nobody is coming in so this is what we have. Im all for Rob retaining the picks and just going with what we have.
Will be fun seeing Reaves-Christie-Dalton development.
Season is a wash regardless imo. Team isn't competing for a title. |
Rob probably agrees with you the way he has moved, I hate that! 😤
It actually looks like an UPGRADED Lakers…currently flirting with 4th in a stacked West as is…could compete for a title with a back up C and a better starting PG and have the assets to pursue it. I don’t know why some fans and Rob don’t see that. It’s ok to disagree, we just see things differently, and that’s cool too. We’re likely headed for a long disappointing era. Rebuilding doesn’t usually work but anything could happen I guess.
Still…I just don’t get it…if the team shows the possibility to compete how could it not be pursued? It’s not like the the Lakers are in the position of the Pelicans/Kings/Suns. How could a fan…I get the FO and that could be to save/make money…prefer to not try based on the circumstances?
I want to see Reeves/Max/Knecht develop too, along with…not instead of…going for a title. The Lakers, currently in playoff standings, clearly imo show that potential. The “we’re gonna lose anyway so let’s not try” belief doesn’t seem reasonable because it doesn’t look like “we’re gonna lose anyway” is true based on the standings. It actually does seem like the team could win if they tried with upgrades. |
Im sorry dude but this team has shown zero evidence absolutely ZERO evidence that they could compete for a title. Our record against teams over .500 is like 8-12. Most of our wins come against bad teams. Lucky for us the west is shaky so it doesn't look as bad on the surface.
Our duo isn't good enough period. If Lebron was 36-37 fine he could still take over games but a 40 year old Lebrn and an inconsistent 1st option in AD does not fill me with confidence.
This team isn't competing for squat. It's 2nd round exit at best. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player

Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 5689
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. |
Yeah sure he's not the best defender but comparing both of them it's not even close as to who i'd want. If both of those guys have bad defense i'll go with the guy who has more to his game on offense. Reaves shouldn't be starting games. He's put in a bad position having to be the starting PG. But from the looks of it nobody is coming in so this is what we have. Im all for Rob retaining the picks and just going with what we have.
Will be fun seeing Reaves-Christie-Dalton development.
Season is a wash regardless imo. Team isn't competing for a title. |
Rob probably agrees with you the way he has moved, I hate that! 😤
It actually looks like an UPGRADED Lakers…currently flirting with 4th in a stacked West as is…could compete for a title with a back up C and a better starting PG and have the assets to pursue it. I don’t know why some fans and Rob don’t see that. It’s ok to disagree, we just see things differently, and that’s cool too. We’re likely headed for a long disappointing era. Rebuilding doesn’t usually work but anything could happen I guess.
Still…I just don’t get it…if the team shows the possibility to compete how could it not be pursued? It’s not like the the Lakers are in the position of the Pelicans/Kings/Suns. How could a fan…I get the FO and that could be to save/make money…prefer to not try based on the circumstances?
I want to see Reeves/Max/Knecht develop too, along with…not instead of…going for a title. The Lakers, currently in playoff standings, clearly imo show that potential. The “we’re gonna lose anyway so let’s not try” belief doesn’t seem reasonable because it doesn’t look like “we’re gonna lose anyway” is true based on the standings. It actually does seem like the team could win if they tried with upgrades. |
Im sorry dude but this team has shown zero evidence absolutely ZERO evidence that they could compete for a title. Our record against teams over .500 is like 8-12. Most of our wins come against bad teams. Lucky for us the west is shaky so it doesn't look as bad on the surface.
Our duo isn't good enough period. If Lebron was 36-37 fine he could still take over games but a 40 year old Lebrn and an inconsistent 1st option in AD does not fill me with confidence.
This team isn't competing for squat. It's 2nd round exit at best. |
As bad as you describe this team, they’re fighting for 4th in the West. I don’t think anyone thinks this team as is competes for a title. But if they are this bad…as bad as you say…and are where they are, it’s not hard to imagine that they could be better if holes are fixed. Fixing those hole and trying to win a title seems more appropriate than quitting because you don’t think they have a chance.
Whether you are right or wrong…we’re all speculating and none of us know for sure…it does look like you are wrong when you say a 6th seed has no chance to compete if they upgrade. I believe this makes sense, and believe you know it, the conundrum is why say otherwise? _________________ When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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TMG Star Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 9527
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | TMG wrote: | Japago wrote: | AR and DLo are both upper tier supporting offensive players who are garbage-tier defenders. AR is more consistent while DLo has higher peaks.
There's not that big of a difference between them in terms of overall skill-level, IMO.
Neither are good enough to be the 3rd best players on a title contender.
No offense to their fans, but these arguments have always been funny to me considering how mid both of these guys are. |
I'll say that AR has shown a lot more than DLO in the post season. He elevates his game. He's not the third best player on the team but i trust him a hell of a lot more than DLO to produce. DLO if his three isn't falling his entire offensive game falls apart.
AR can hurt you in more ways than the longball. |
That “hurt” appears on both sidelines, for and against the Lakers. AR is valuable used appropriately, starting PG isn’t used appropriately imo. |
Yeah sure he's not the best defender but comparing both of them it's not even close as to who i'd want. If both of those guys have bad defense i'll go with the guy who has more to his game on offense. Reaves shouldn't be starting games. He's put in a bad position having to be the starting PG. But from the looks of it nobody is coming in so this is what we have. Im all for Rob retaining the picks and just going with what we have.
Will be fun seeing Reaves-Christie-Dalton development.
Season is a wash regardless imo. Team isn't competing for a title. |
Rob probably agrees with you the way he has moved, I hate that! 😤
It actually looks like an UPGRADED Lakers…currently flirting with 4th in a stacked West as is…could compete for a title with a back up C and a better starting PG and have the assets to pursue it. I don’t know why some fans and Rob don’t see that. It’s ok to disagree, we just see things differently, and that’s cool too. We’re likely headed for a long disappointing era. Rebuilding doesn’t usually work but anything could happen I guess.
Still…I just don’t get it…if the team shows the possibility to compete how could it not be pursued? It’s not like the the Lakers are in the position of the Pelicans/Kings/Suns. How could a fan…I get the FO and that could be to save/make money…prefer to not try based on the circumstances?
I want to see Reeves/Max/Knecht develop too, along with…not instead of…going for a title. The Lakers, currently in playoff standings, clearly imo show that potential. The “we’re gonna lose anyway so let’s not try” belief doesn’t seem reasonable because it doesn’t look like “we’re gonna lose anyway” is true based on the standings. It actually does seem like the team could win if they tried with upgrades. |
Im sorry dude but this team has shown zero evidence absolutely ZERO evidence that they could compete for a title. Our record against teams over .500 is like 8-12. Most of our wins come against bad teams. Lucky for us the west is shaky so it doesn't look as bad on the surface.
Our duo isn't good enough period. If Lebron was 36-37 fine he could still take over games but a 40 year old Lebrn and an inconsistent 1st option in AD does not fill me with confidence.
This team isn't competing for squat. It's 2nd round exit at best. |
As bad as you describe this team, they’re fighting for 4th in the West. I don’t think anyone thinks this team as is competes for a title. But if they are this bad…as bad as you say…and are where they are, it’s not hard to imagine that they could be better if holes are fixed. Fixing those hole and trying to win a title seems more appropriate than quitting because you don’t think they have a chance.
Whether you are right or wrong…we’re all speculating and none of us know for sure…it does look like you are wrong when you say a 6th seed has no chance to compete if they upgrade. I believe this makes sense, and believe you know it, the conundrum is why say otherwise? |
Im not saying quit and go for the tank. For one we cant do that since picks are owed.
Dont give up anymore assets. Play with what you have and live with it.
cant bank on a 40 year old and a 1st option in AD.
Sure all we need is a two way guard and rebounding big who plays really good defense.
Really easy stuff to fix right?
For once im with pelinka if he doesn't pull the trigger on any more trades.
You keep saying we're close to the 4th seed yet seemingely cant beat any good teams. Thats an indictment on the west if anything.
Houston
Dallas
OKC
Denver
Will all wax us in the playoffs.
There's no trade out there that fixes all these issues this season.
This team actually needs to prove something before people believe in them. I sure as hell ain't gonna be fooled by the seeding because we're playing more as a play in team than a legit team. Rinse and repeat of last season. |
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Ksig Star Player

Joined: 03 Dec 2016 Posts: 2300
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Needs to shoot better. His saving grace is his offense but if hes not shooting close to 50/40 then hes giving up a lot more than he puts up. |
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Japago Star Player

Joined: 21 Jun 2018 Posts: 2372
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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He was great when he was a "bonus" a few years ago. You weren't expecting much from him at all. And it was great when he put up solid production.
Ever since he's been relied upon to be 3A and now 3, the Lakers just haven't been a good team. It's been hidden behind DLo's lows, but it's true. The offense is ok, but his bad defense almost sinks the Lakers as much as his good offense does at this point.
He's not a bad player, but he neither an amazing offensive player that can carry at certain stretches, nor is he an elite 2 way player that can change a game even without scoring.
It would be nice if he were the Lakers' 5th or 6th best player, but I doubt the Lakers can make major changes to raise their ceiling without including him. |
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