I reallly feel we don’t need another star, if you fill AD and LBJ with players like AR, Caruso, Hart, KCP and Vando, I won’t be disappointed with the result because I can see that they will put all they have each and every game.
you have listed elite-level role players outside of Vandy. bron and AD were perfectly healthy last year and got dumped in the first round. Does JJ change that/maybe, but he wasn't hired to change that. he was hired for player DEV and to lower expectations.
“We have to work hard to avoid the irrational takes issued emotionally without substance to dismiss them and if we fail to do that it’s our fault.” _________________ “When it looks as if it is a realistic possibility, I want to focus on winning a ship like it’s a goal that can’t be denied. I didn’t see that this off season.”
Joined: 07 May 2014 Posts: 14238 Location: Boulder ;)
Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
governator wrote:
AR, KCP, Josh Hart, DiVicenzo, Tim Hardaway Jr, Mann, Giddey, (TJ McConnell)… I think he’s right around here
Players who can do some things good but struggle at other things. Are any untradable? Not at all.
Is the Laker Tax a real thing? Other teams not willing to help us get any better by asking more from The Lakers than they do other teams to get a trade done?
Dude, are you able to read? Who the hell said any of those three is likely to happen? That's kind of the point, isn't it? Christie is a giant question mark and I think he'll be a solid role player starter at Age 25 but next season, who knows. Vanderbilt making 3s is a fantasy. But those are the kinds of things it'd take for this team to become a bona fide contender.
That said, I disagree about Reaves personally, I think he still has more primary ballhandling juice to be squeezed out. Like I said, he was actually an elite PnR ballhandler at the 90th percentile (1.05 ppp). I don't know if his 3 ball will ever get to the consistency of an elite shooter, but I can see Reaves being an elite 3rd option. I don't see why he can't get to prime Kyle Lowry level for example.
Lowry is a six time all star, NBA champion, Olympic gold medalist, and a borderline Hall of Famer.
That's my point, innit? Lowry in his best season put up 22/7/5 on 62% TS%. Reaves won't get that much volume as a Laker but what would Lowry do next to LeBron and AD? 18/7/5 on 65% TS%? There's nothing about Lowry's game that makes this kind of "leap" impossible for Reaves. I'm not saying Reaves is there yet but I'm a little puzzled why people think it's literally impossible, Lowry himself was 30 when he had his best season
Kyle Lowry's defense is comparable to Alex Caruso. Reaves? Not so much.
Lowry was not an All-NBA level defender, cmon now. I agree Lowry was a solid defender though, much tougher / more stout than Reaves.
Dude, are you able to read? Who the hell said any of those three is likely to happen? That's kind of the point, isn't it? Christie is a giant question mark and I think he'll be a solid role player starter at Age 25 but next season, who knows. Vanderbilt making 3s is a fantasy. But those are the kinds of things it'd take for this team to become a bona fide contender.
That said, I disagree about Reaves personally, I think he still has more primary ballhandling juice to be squeezed out. Like I said, he was actually an elite PnR ballhandler at the 90th percentile (1.05 ppp). I don't know if his 3 ball will ever get to the consistency of an elite shooter, but I can see Reaves being an elite 3rd option. I don't see why he can't get to prime Kyle Lowry level for example.
Lowry is a six time all star, NBA champion, Olympic gold medalist, and a borderline Hall of Famer.
That's my point, innit? Lowry in his best season put up 22/7/5 on 62% TS%. Reaves won't get that much volume as a Laker but what would Lowry do next to LeBron and AD? 18/7/5 on 65% TS%? There's nothing about Lowry's game that makes this kind of "leap" impossible for Reaves. I'm not saying Reaves is there yet but I'm a little puzzled why people think it's literally impossible, Lowry himself was 30 when he had his best season
Kyle Lowry's defense is comparable to Alex Caruso. Reaves? Not so much.
Lowry was not an All-NBA level defender, cmon now. I agree Lowry was a solid defender though, much tougher / more stout than Reaves.
Yea, I don't think Lowry was ever some lock down defender. He was pretty good in his prime though. Lowry also didn't play with Lebron and Davis, so his overall production is hard to compare to someone like Reaves.
Fun fact Lowry didn't really break out until his 8th season, where he averaged 18-5-7 at 42-38-81. Maybe Reaves will break out in his 8th season.
AR began his career at age 23 while Lowry began at age 20.
Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside. I hope you guys knew that. It's a whole thing now. It's why older players are rarely drafted high anymore.
Not to mention, LOL at AR ever being as good as Lowry was. He was a great all-around player, with no weaknesses.
AR is a mediocre shooter and a bad defender. Lowry may not have been an elite defender, but good is still WAY better than what AR is.
Lowry was never targeted in his prime like AR has been this past season and in the FIBA games.
No comparison whatsoever. Just another "naturally-grown" player that you guys like to prop up like crazy.
It gets exhausting, TBH. Laker fans ALWAYS overrate players who developed within the Lakers like the former young core.
AR began his career at age 23 while Lowry began at age 20.
Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside. I hope you guys knew that. It's a whole thing now. It's why older players are rarely drafted high anymore.
Not to mention, LOL at AR ever being as good as Lowry was. He was a great all-around player, with no weaknesses.
AR is a mediocre shooter and a bad defender. Lowry may not have been an elite defender, but good is still WAY better than what AR is.
Lowry was never targeted in his prime like AR has been this past season and in the FIBA games.
No comparison whatsoever. Just another "naturally-grown" player that you guys like to prop up like crazy.
It gets exhausting, TBH. Laker fans ALWAYS overrate players who developed within the Lakers like the former young core.
Older players rarely get drafted because everything is about upside/potential. GMs would rather sell combine numbers and say think about what we can turn this guy into, rather than draft a 22 year old who is a solid C+ Now Reaves is a legit NBA playoff spark plug off the bench, 6th man type player, and that is when he plays his best.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 36530 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:58 pm Post subject:
Remember that in the vetoed Chris Paul trade, the Rockets were willing to send Scola, Dragic, Kevin Martin, and a first round pick to the Hornets in exchange for Pau Gasol, all so that they could pair Gasol with Lowry. That’s how good Lowry was considered— they thought a Lowry/Gasol duo could contend. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
AR began his career at age 23 while Lowry began at age 20.
Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside. I hope you guys knew that. It's a whole thing now. It's why older players are rarely drafted high anymore.
Not to mention, LOL at AR ever being as good as Lowry was. He was a great all-around player, with no weaknesses.
AR is a mediocre shooter and a bad defender. Lowry may not have been an elite defender, but good is still WAY better than what AR is.
Lowry was never targeted in his prime like AR has been this past season and in the FIBA games.
No comparison whatsoever. Just another "naturally-grown" player that you guys like to prop up like crazy.
It gets exhausting, TBH. Laker fans ALWAYS overrate players who developed within the Lakers like the former young core.
Just out of curiosity are you a Laker fan? If you are, you sure love negativity. Reminds me of VLF (sorry lol). Is there anything about the Lakers you actually like if you are indeed a fan?
By the way the Reaves being really good in his eight year was a joke. I guess your hatred for Reaves and his supporters wouldn't allow you to see it.
You know what else is exhausting? Your negativity.
AR began his career at age 23 while Lowry began at age 20.
Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside. I hope you guys knew that. It's a whole thing now. It's why older players are rarely drafted high anymore.
Not to mention, LOL at AR ever being as good as Lowry was. He was a great all-around player, with no weaknesses.
AR is a mediocre shooter and a bad defender. Lowry may not have been an elite defender, but good is still WAY better than what AR is.
Lowry was never targeted in his prime like AR has been this past season and in the FIBA games.
No comparison whatsoever. Just another "naturally-grown" player that you guys like to prop up like crazy.
It gets exhausting, TBH. Laker fans ALWAYS overrate players who developed within the Lakers like the former young core.
You would LOL at Lowry turning into Lowry. Lowry at 25 put up 14/7/5, Reaves at 25 put up 16/5.5/4 and their adjusted TS+ were the same (106). This is with Lowry having more NBA experience, and also cherry picking his best season when he only played <50 games. He put up 11.6/6.4 on 102 TS+ as a 26 year old. Thinking Reaves can't grow into the offensive player Lowry was is delusional.
I don't disagree with Lowry being a better defender, but Lowry absolutely would be targeted if he played in Kerr's switch heavy scheme (Lowry is stout but he's also generously 6'). Reaves did play awful defense for most of the regular season but he was an adequate defender his first two years and he played good defense against Murray in the playoffs -- and yes Murray was awful against Minnesota and in the Olympics as well, but the fact remains that Reaves clearly wasn't such a sieve that Murray had a demonstrably better series or something. You are making exaggerations for reasons that are unclear to me though I agree Reaves will never be the defender Lowry was.
And honestly your schtick is (bleep) exhausting, you're acting like you're this great, insightful, impartial arbiter of skill and that everyone else is some delusional homer but you're literally more narrow-minded than almost everyone on this board who sees Reaves as having potential for growth. No one is claiming Reaves is the next Harden or a future superstar, or that he will grow into a Lowry-level player (on offense).
But he has played 3 seasons and his points/ assists per 100 possessions went:
15/3.7
21.4/5.5
23.5/8.1
And yet, you're going to sit here pretending like you're some kind of genius with your lazy analysis that Reaves has no room for on ball growth? Meanwhile, you haven't provided literally a single bit of evidence beyond your own opinions. "Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside." Great analysis guy, I guess the Reaves who put up 15/3.7 per 100p as a 23 y/o rookie isn't going to be able to put up 23.5/8.1 per 100p within 2 years. After all "it's a whole thing now... players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside." Seriously, bravo, you really nailed it with that.
AR began his career at age 23 while Lowry began at age 20.
Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside. I hope you guys knew that. It's a whole thing now. It's why older players are rarely drafted high anymore.
Not to mention, LOL at AR ever being as good as Lowry was. He was a great all-around player, with no weaknesses.
AR is a mediocre shooter and a bad defender. Lowry may not have been an elite defender, but good is still WAY better than what AR is.
Lowry was never targeted in his prime like AR has been this past season and in the FIBA games.
No comparison whatsoever. Just another "naturally-grown" player that you guys like to prop up like crazy.
It gets exhausting, TBH. Laker fans ALWAYS overrate players who developed within the Lakers like the former young core.
You would LOL at Lowry turning into Lowry. Lowry at 25 put up 14/7/5, Reaves at 25 put up 16/5.5/4 and their adjusted TS+ were the same (106). This is with Lowry having more NBA experience, and also cherry picking his best season when he only played <50 games. He put up 11.6/6.4 on 102 TS+ as a 26 year old. Thinking Reaves can't grow into the offensive player Lowry was is delusional.
I don't disagree with Lowry being a better defender, but Lowry absolutely would be targeted if he played in Kerr's switch heavy scheme (Lowry is stout but he's also generously 6'). Reaves did play awful defense for most of the regular season but he was an adequate defender his first two years and he played good defense against Murray in the playoffs -- and yes Murray was awful against Minnesota and in the Olympics as well, but the fact remains that Reaves clearly wasn't such a sieve that Murray had a demonstrably better series or something. You are making exaggerations for reasons that are unclear to me though I agree Reaves will never be the defender Lowry was.
And honestly your schtick is (bleep) exhausting, you're acting like you're this great, insightful, impartial arbiter of skill and that everyone else is some delusional homer but you're literally more narrow-minded than almost everyone on this board who sees Reaves as having potential for growth. No one is claiming Reaves is the next Harden or a future superstar, or that he will grow into a Lowry-level player (on offense).
But he has played 3 seasons and his points/ assists per 100 possessions went:
15/3.7
21.4/5.5
23.5/8.1
And yet, you're going to sit here pretending like you're some kind of genius with your lazy analysis that Reaves has no room for on ball growth? Meanwhile, you haven't provided literally a single bit of evidence beyond your own opinions. "Players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside." Great analysis guy, I guess the Reaves who put up 15/3.7 per 100p as a 23 y/o rookie isn't going to be able to put up 23.5/8.1 per 100p within 2 years. After all "it's a whole thing now... players who enter the NBA older typically have lower upside." Seriously, bravo, you really nailed it with that.
It's very common knowledge among ALL NBA front offices that older players coming off 3-4 years of college are more or less finished products that don't make as big of leaps as guys coming off 1 year of college.
Ignoring that is very silly.
Comparing their situations is also very silly, as Kyle Lowry was a main player playing on teams with no stars while AR is playing behind LeBron and AD.
AR wouldn't look nearly as good if he had to generate all of his own offense. He looks good because he gets offense generated for him and has stars to attract defensive attention in the spots when he does create.
Also, this tactic of using ONE example of something happening to predict it happening again with of the young core isn't new.
I remember back in the day when someone hyping up one of the young core was using Steph Curry's late development to explain why DLo or BI(can't remember which) could still be a star even after mediocre starts to their careers.
It was as laughable then as it's laughable now.
Something happening a few times does not equal a strong likelihood of something happening.
Something happening a few times does not equal a strong likelihood of something happening.
Cool, now find me the post where people are saying Reaves is on an inevitable progression to superstardom. Meanwhile you ignore my actual evidence, which is that we are seeing Reaves put up more points and more assists per 100p every year, despite playing as a fourth option. At some point he will cap out, and it may have already happened, but neither you nor I know this has happened. But Kyle Lowry is not some laughable ceiling.
Quote:
It's very common knowledge among ALL NBA front offices that older players coming off 3-4 years of college are more or less finished products that don't make as big of leaps as guys coming off 1 year of college.
Literally that same logic applies to every year Reaves has made a leap, which has been... every year. So when does a guy off of 3-4 years of college peter off? Why did Reaves improve from Year 2 to Year 3, if he was a finished product? If he wasn't a finished product after Year 2, who's to say he is a finished product after Year 3?
Like earlier I said one way the Lakers actually become contenders is if Vanderbilt becomes a respectable 3 point shooter. It's pretty reasonable to think that has a slim chance of happening given how awful he has been, which was my point. But Reaves developing more as an on ball player seems much more plausible (though not guaranteed) so I'm not sure what the fuss here is
Something happening a few times does not equal a strong likelihood of something happening.
Cool, now find me the post where people are saying Reaves is on an inevitable progression to superstardom. Meanwhile you ignore my actual evidence, which is that we are seeing Reaves put up more points and more assists per 100p every year, despite playing as a fourth option. At some point he will cap out, and it may have already happened, but neither you nor I know this has happened. But Kyle Lowry is not some laughable ceiling.
Quote:
It's very common knowledge among ALL NBA front offices that older players coming off 3-4 years of college are more or less finished products that don't make as big of leaps as guys coming off 1 year of college.
Literally that same logic applies to every year Reaves has made a leap, which has been... every year. So when does a guy off of 3-4 years of college peter off? Why did Reaves improve from Year 2 to Year 3, if he was a finished product? If he wasn't a finished product after Year 2, who's to say he is a finished product after Year 3?
Like earlier I said one way the Lakers actually become contenders is if Vanderbilt becomes a respectable 3 point shooter. It's pretty reasonable to think that has a slim chance of happening given how awful he has been, which was my point. But Reaves developing more as an on ball player seems much more plausible (though not guaranteed) so I'm not sure what the fuss here is
Kyle Lowry is a 6-time all-star, was the 1st or 2nd best player on a good Raptors team for many years, and was the 2nd or 3rd best player on a championship Raptors team, all things AR is not capable of. So yeah, it is a ridiculous claim. He'll never be the floor general or defender Lowry was. Being specifically good at P&R when he has one of the best roll men in the league doesn't mean he can be elite at all aspects of play-making.
Most Laker fans don't even trust him(and I agree) to take over the secondary play-making role from DLo.
Did AR make a leap last year? He seemed to be the same or even slightly worse than the guy from the 2nd half of the 2022-2023 season. I guess it's an improvement if you're counting all of that season when he didn't play much in the first half.
You're counting on him to make several kinds of leaps to get to Lowry's level. He's a 26 year old with no standout traits. Maybe Lowry drastically improved from that age, but it's not the norm.
By far, he's most likely an above average role player. He's not an all-star.
You can try to come up with rare examples and comparisons to say otherwise.
But most of the time, players at his age, draft stock coming out of college, and talent-level are who they are at this point.
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
Kinda stupid argument to think that a 26 year old has max his potential when you posted stat that shows he is still in the up trend. Wonder what Dame, Tim, CJ, J Butler, Draymond, Van Fleet, Brunson, Nash feels if they are told they have no more room to improve.
I guess when you get to AR’s age u can’t improve your handles, shooting, defense, smarts and playmaking anymore (You are old and u are in a decline. 🤔
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
I just don't see AR having this upside as a play-maker that you do. It's nice that AR was good operating in the PnR, but what about other plays? And was it elite skill/decision-making that got him the good marks in THAT one specific area and not having 1 of the best roll/pop men in the league in AD?
I guess it's at least good that he was better at it than others on the team.
From I've seen, DLo looks better when orchestrating the offense overall. I trust him more at the top of the key, finding players coming off off-ball screens or throwing it to someone who has a mismatch. And, I wouldn't say he's great by any stretch.
I mean, you can make the case that any player is going to be great when you assume they're going to make several leaps like you're assuming AR will.
I saw a guy who liked to force up a lot of bad shots at times. I saw a guy who declined as a defender.
Getting worse at stuff is also a possibility.
He's not "old old", but he's also past the age where players are fundamentally changing. 26 isn't young in the development stage in most cases in the NBA.
You're laying out a dream scenario for him, not a likelihood. You found someone broadly who had no stand-out elite traits and decided AR CAN be like him just because he also has no elite traits.
That's all they have in common. AR would have to significantly improve on several weaknesses to get to that level.
It's just not a strong likelihood. Good luck with waiting for AR to get to that level.
Relatively speaking, it's lot like the fans who were waiting for one of the Lakers' number 2 picks to break out as a superstar. People looked for examples of ANY superstar who developed later and wanted to give DLo and BI ALL the time in the world for it to happen just based on a few examples.
This always happens when some fans latch onto Laker-developed players.
They latch onto them thinking of some absolute best scenario that happened a few times and put too much stake on something like that happening again.
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
Oh jesus. You seriously dont believe this do you?
Sure why not? I've seen pretty big strides since seeing him as a rookie. I see a guy who LeBron is comfortable giving the rock at the end of close games (playoff games at that).
@Japago, I've said my piece, I think you are projecting a lot of whatever frustrations about past conversations onto my post. I don't think I've said anything remotely unreasonable in terms of plausible upside for Reaves. That's not a guarantee anything happens since for most it doesn't, but I haven't seen any sort of analysis besides "26 old" (and "no elite attributes" but most of the guys I mentioned earlier aren't elite either) to suggest that a Kyle Lowry esque prime (at his peak) is some unattainable level. I'm not saying he's going to be James Harden.
Is the Laker Tax a real thing? Other teams not willing to help us get any better by asking more from The Lakers than they do other teams to get a trade done?
Back in the Showtime era, if it would help the Lakers, they could expect a scolding from Larry Bird.
Reaction to the Michael Thompson trade in '87:
"If San Antonio needed money, we would've sent them money," Larry Bird said. "But to go and help the Lakers like that is just terrible."
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12390 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2024 5:20 pm Post subject:
I'll be more interested in evaluating Reaves after he gets a real offseason. I for one am a huge believer in his talent and find it absolutely remarkable that people here act like Kyle (bleep) Lowry is some guard par excellence Reaves can't touch, let alone reach.
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
Oh jesus. You seriously dont believe this do you?
The homerism can be so bad it makes me want to leave sometimes. It's like that with Laker-developed players at all levels.
I think I remember you in the "Top players of the 21st century." They're doing it with Kobe as well.
Since it just happened, look at THT. We had fans hype him up, and now he's on a training camp deal just trying to stay in the league.
From all-time greats like Kobe to guys who looked good in a few games like THT, the opinions of them always go a few steps higher than they should be.
I think some people here should try to get out of the Laker-fan bubble sometimes and bring these opinions to general NBA fans.
It's bizarre you're putting up accomplishments to show Reaves will never get to that level, like Lowry was an all star one season where he put up 14/9/5, am I seriously supposed to really think that's unattainable for Reaves? That Raptors team was a pretender until they got Kawhi, they just were in a pathetic Eastern conference. And he was the 3rd best player on a Raptors that had the best player in the league (at least for that one year) + an insanely balanced roster (Siakam, Green, FVV, Ibaka, Gasol + baby OG).
For sure there's no reason to think Reaves is going to take an all-star leap, although I could list plenty of guys who were as old as Reaves is now before their first all-star season (Lowry, Dragic, Billups, Nash, Isaiah Thomas, Conley). The list of guys who didn't have star leaps is much larger obviously.
But I don't see any reason to think Reaves can't be the floor general Lowry was, Lowry himself wasn't the same floor general when he was 25 despite having more NBA experience. And Lowry was never going to be the lead ballhandler for a championship but he could be the main guard when you have a star forward (Kawhi). That's actually been my claim all along, Reaves can grow into more playmaking duties as he has more reps running an offense etc., we saw him figure out the Ham-style PnR heavy 5 out in real time last season.
The thing I find annoying is when you're saying "he's a finished product, he's old" when this is probably true in some regards and not in others. He's not gonna be a 30 ppg scorer, obviously. It's specifically in running an NBA offense that a lot of late bloomers come into their own, because that's pretty (bleep) hard. I don't think last year's Reaves could do this, but I think it's pretty plausible for Reaves to develop into a legit #2 ballhandler behind a superstar ballhandler.
Oh jesus. You seriously dont believe this do you?
The homerism can be so bad it makes me want to leave sometimes. It's like that with Laker-developed players at all levels.
I think I remember you in the "Top players of the 21st century." They're doing it with Kobe as well.
Since it just happened, look at THT. We had fans hype him up, and now he's on a training camp deal just trying to stay in the league.
From all-time greats like Kobe to guys who looked good in a few games like THT, the opinions of them always go a few steps higher than they should be.
I think some people here should try to get out of the Laker-fan bubble sometimes and bring these opinions to general NBA fans.
You'll get laughed into oblivion.
You are on a Laker forum. I think you are the one that is a bit delusional. If you want to take the negative approach, then go to non Laker forums and enjoy hating on the Lakers with your peers. Optimism and homerism on a Laker forum is normal. It is for any team with a forum.
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