I have a feeling month of July is going to be a long and miserable month. I hope I'm wrong but the way they are playing right now (pitching and offense) we are in for some losing streaks.
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 17197 Location: In a no-ship
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:49 pm Post subject:
It's Coors, this happens sometimes. Not going to stress it. Besides his fastball velocity, every single one of Kershaw's statcast peripherals look fantastic.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:32 pm Post subject:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
It's Coors, this happens sometimes. Not going to stress it. Besides his fastball velocity, every single one of Kershaw's statcast peripherals look fantastic.
Correct. I also agree with earlier posts that this was probably a letdown series for us, and that's what happened after we came home to play the Pirates, I think.
Jon Heyman floated yesterday that the Phillies could be a fit for Trea Turner in free agency and that he could reunite with his old Nationals teammate, Bryce Harper. It's already been out there that Turner may prefer to return to the East Coast. I think the chances of us keeping him are slim, both because he may not want the West Coast and also because I simply don't think we want to give him $300MM or something. Once that truly elite speed goes, it takes away a lot of what he does well. He's a hit machine, but when he turns from the fastest runner in baseball to just above-average, think of all those infield hits that will just go away. Could turn him from a .310 hitter to a .285-.290 hitter, and his power is just OK, not great. And then his value as a baserunner obviously decreases, too. Look at what happened to Mookie, and he's not even 30 yet. I just don't think that the Dodgers view Turner as a truly elite hitter, or that he won't be one as soon as the speed dissipates.
And I know we've talked about Ohtani here recently, but I actually wonder if Trout could become available. Of course, with a no-trade, he could pick his next team. But the Angels really do feel like they are at a serious crossroads. We know the Anaheim stadium and land deal fell apart. The team, after a good start, is now reeling like crazy, and it's going to almost certainly be yet another year of missed postseason ball for Trout. He was actually annoyed in the outfield tonight because it appeared that the pitcher on the mound was tipping his pitches, and Trout was mimicking what he thought the pitcher was doing out of frustration. Fan apathy may also be setting in, as the Angels drew 23,000 last night for a Tuesday night game. They have two of the signature stars of the sport, Ohtani and Trout, and they can only get 23K fans to show up to a game? The Dodgers draw double that in their sleep. I think they may have to strongly consider doing something drastic, and I wouldn't even be surprised if Trout approaches them and asks out. It actually feels like all the losing is frustrating him now. He's signed through 2030. The Angels could get a freaking boatload for him. If I'm them, I'm getting out of this rut -- they haven't been able to field a winner with him -- and I'm moving him for a ton of pieces, and I'm giving Ohtani whatever he wants so that they still have a franchise star, and I move forward with that. But I'd want to get Ohtani to agree to the massive extension first. I'm not sure I'd want to lose both guys after next season, when Ohtani is scheduled to become a free agent. I actually think the Dodgers could be on Trout's short list of teams he'd go to if he wanted out, because if Trout's asking out of Anaheim, you'd have to think that by far the most important criteria would be that he wants to play for a winner and to play postseason ball. The Dodgers are a virtual shoo-in for that every year. The Yankees are close to that, too, and they are close to his childhood home in New Jersey, but they already have a ton of long-term deals on the books, they actually do have a budget in recent years, and Judge's free agency looms and I'd imagine they really want to keep him. If they traded for Trout, that probably closes the door on that. We can offer postseason play, not really upset the life he's living now in terms of location (he spends half the year in SoCal and the other half in New Jersey), and a possible match in terms of being able to offer the type of prospects that the Angels would want in a deal.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:48 am Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
It's Coors, this happens sometimes. Not going to stress it. Besides his fastball velocity, every single one of Kershaw's statcast peripherals look fantastic.
Correct. I also agree with earlier posts that this was probably a letdown series for us, and that's what happened after we came home to play the Pirates, I think.
Jon Heyman floated yesterday that the Phillies could be a fit for Trea Turner in free agency and that he could reunite with his old Nationals teammate, Bryce Harper. It's already been out there that Turner may prefer to return to the East Coast. I think the chances of us keeping him are slim, both because he may not want the West Coast and also because I simply don't think we want to give him $300MM or something. Once that truly elite speed goes, it takes away a lot of what he does well. He's a hit machine, but when he turns from the fastest runner in baseball to just above-average, think of all those infield hits that will just go away. Could turn him from a .310 hitter to a .285-.290 hitter, and his power is just OK, not great. And then his value as a baserunner obviously decreases, too. Look at what happened to Mookie, and he's not even 30 yet. I just don't think that the Dodgers view Turner as a truly elite hitter, or that he won't be one as soon as the speed dissipates.
And I know we've talked about Ohtani here recently, but I actually wonder if Trout could become available. Of course, with a no-trade, he could pick his next team. But the Angels really do feel like they are at a serious crossroads. We know the Anaheim stadium and land deal fell apart. The team, after a good start, is now reeling like crazy, and it's going to almost certainly be yet another year of missed postseason ball for Trout. He was actually annoyed in the outfield tonight because it appeared that the pitcher on the mound was tipping his pitches, and Trout was mimicking what he thought the pitcher was doing out of frustration. Fan apathy may also be setting in, as the Angels drew 23,000 last night for a Tuesday night game. They have two of the signature stars of the sport, Ohtani and Trout, and they can only get 23K fans to show up to a game? The Dodgers draw double that in their sleep. I think they may have to strongly consider doing something drastic, and I wouldn't even be surprised if Trout approaches them and asks out. It actually feels like all the losing is frustrating him now. He's signed through 2030. The Angels could get a freaking boatload for him. If I'm them, I'm getting out of this rut -- they haven't been able to field a winner with him -- and I'm moving him for a ton of pieces, and I'm giving Ohtani whatever he wants so that they still have a franchise star, and I move forward with that. But I'd want to get Ohtani to agree to the massive extension first. I'm not sure I'd want to lose both guys after next season, when Ohtani is scheduled to become a free agent. I actually think the Dodgers could be on Trout's short list of teams he'd go to if he wanted out, because if Trout's asking out of Anaheim, you'd have to think that by far the most important criteria would be that he wants to play for a winner and to play postseason ball. The Dodgers are a virtual shoo-in for that every year. The Yankees are close to that, too, and they are close to his childhood home in New Jersey, but they already have a ton of long-term deals on the books, they actually do have a budget in recent years, and Judge's free agency looms and I'd imagine they really want to keep him. If they traded for Trout, that probably closes the door on that. We can offer postseason play, not really upset the life he's living now in terms of location (he spends half the year in SoCal and the other half in New Jersey), and a possible match in terms of being able to offer the type of prospects that the Angels would want in a deal.
So what's our offer for Trout...
Paragraphs, dear friend, please - it will aid us in reading your (as always) excellent post.
As to your final sentence . . . I'd take Trout and Ohtani for Busch, Pepiot, Pages, and May. Basically whomever they want that isn't Cartaya, Miller, and Vargas.
It's Coors, this happens sometimes. Not going to stress it. Besides his fastball velocity, every single one of Kershaw's statcast peripherals look fantastic.
Correct. I also agree with earlier posts that this was probably a letdown series for us, and that's what happened after we came home to play the Pirates, I think.
Jon Heyman floated yesterday that the Phillies could be a fit for Trea Turner in free agency and that he could reunite with his old Nationals teammate, Bryce Harper. It's already been out there that Turner may prefer to return to the East Coast. I think the chances of us keeping him are slim, both because he may not want the West Coast and also because I simply don't think we want to give him $300MM or something. Once that truly elite speed goes, it takes away a lot of what he does well. He's a hit machine, but when he turns from the fastest runner in baseball to just above-average, think of all those infield hits that will just go away. Could turn him from a .310 hitter to a .285-.290 hitter, and his power is just OK, not great. And then his value as a baserunner obviously decreases, too. Look at what happened to Mookie, and he's not even 30 yet. I just don't think that the Dodgers view Turner as a truly elite hitter, or that he won't be one as soon as the speed dissipates.
And I know we've talked about Ohtani here recently, but I actually wonder if Trout could become available. Of course, with a no-trade, he could pick his next team. But the Angels really do feel like they are at a serious crossroads. We know the Anaheim stadium and land deal fell apart. The team, after a good start, is now reeling like crazy, and it's going to almost certainly be yet another year of missed postseason ball for Trout. He was actually annoyed in the outfield tonight because it appeared that the pitcher on the mound was tipping his pitches, and Trout was mimicking what he thought the pitcher was doing out of frustration. Fan apathy may also be setting in, as the Angels drew 23,000 last night for a Tuesday night game. They have two of the signature stars of the sport, Ohtani and Trout, and they can only get 23K fans to show up to a game? The Dodgers draw double that in their sleep. I think they may have to strongly consider doing something drastic, and I wouldn't even be surprised if Trout approaches them and asks out. It actually feels like all the losing is frustrating him now. He's signed through 2030. The Angels could get a freaking boatload for him. If I'm them, I'm getting out of this rut -- they haven't been able to field a winner with him -- and I'm moving him for a ton of pieces, and I'm giving Ohtani whatever he wants so that they still have a franchise star, and I move forward with that. But I'd want to get Ohtani to agree to the massive extension first. I'm not sure I'd want to lose both guys after next season, when Ohtani is scheduled to become a free agent. I actually think the Dodgers could be on Trout's short list of teams he'd go to if he wanted out, because if Trout's asking out of Anaheim, you'd have to think that by far the most important criteria would be that he wants to play for a winner and to play postseason ball. The Dodgers are a virtual shoo-in for that every year. The Yankees are close to that, too, and they are close to his childhood home in New Jersey, but they already have a ton of long-term deals on the books, they actually do have a budget in recent years, and Judge's free agency looms and I'd imagine they really want to keep him. If they traded for Trout, that probably closes the door on that. We can offer postseason play, not really upset the life he's living now in terms of location (he spends half the year in SoCal and the other half in New Jersey), and a possible match in terms of being able to offer the type of prospects that the Angels would want in a deal.
So what's our offer for Trout...
Paragraphs, dear friend, please - it will aid us in reading your (as always) excellent post.
As to your final sentence . . . I'd take Trout and Ohtani for Busch, Pepiot, Pages, and May. Basically whomever they want that isn't Cartaya, Miller, and Vargas.
Imagine having Betts, Freeman, Ohtani, and Trout on one team. Man what a game it would be every night,.
Ha, let's try to keep it semi-realistic and maybe we can get one of them. Both? Now y'all are just greedy!
Never!
If that happened, I'd move back to LA and get season tickets. Jeez, it'd be a party every night. The electricity would be bat-(bleep) crazy. _________________ KOBE
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 1:46 pm Post subject:
This is actually really wild. No wonder Freddie was so emotional over the weekend.
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
Casey Close never told Freddie Freeman about the Braves final offer, that is why Freeman fired him. He found out in Atlanta this weekend. It isn’t that rare to have happen in MLB, but it happened - Close knew Freddie would have taken the ATL deal
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 2:27 pm Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
This is actually really wild. No wonder Freddie was so emotional over the weekend.
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
Casey Close never told Freddie Freeman about the Braves final offer, that is why Freeman fired him. He found out in Atlanta this weekend. It isn’t that rare to have happen in MLB, but it happened - Close knew Freddie would have taken the ATL deal
I'm pretty skeptical of the final sentence. Close is no first time agent unsure what's going on. He's also not itching for a larger fee - guy represents people like Kershaw, Jeter, Greinke . . . his wife is (bleep) Gretchen Carlson, he's not desperate for a larger fee.
If he *knew* Freddie would take a deal, he'd offer it to him. More likely, Freddie gave him authority to disregard any offer below a certain amount/value, and this likely fell into it, so he rejected it.
This is actually really wild. No wonder Freddie was so emotional over the weekend.
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
Casey Close never told Freddie Freeman about the Braves final offer, that is why Freeman fired him. He found out in Atlanta this weekend. It isn’t that rare to have happen in MLB, but it happened - Close knew Freddie would have taken the ATL deal
I'm pretty skeptical of the final sentence. Close is no first time agent unsure what's going on. He's also not itching for a larger fee - guy represents people like Kershaw, Jeter, Greinke . . . his wife is (bleep) Gretchen Carlson, he's not desperate for a larger fee.
If he *knew* Freddie would take a deal, he'd offer it to him. More likely, Freddie gave him authority to disregard any offer below a certain amount/value, and this likely fell into it, so he rejected it.
Regardless, take this with a giant grain of salt
I heard/read differently. When the lockout ended, Close played hardball w/the Braves to get a new deal within 24 hrs, I think Close gave them a few counters and the Braves never got back to him.
Supposedly Freddie didn't want Close to give the Braves an ultimatum. Well it sounded like Close did and so Atlanta acted in their best interest.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:54 pm Post subject:
AD23 wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
This is actually really wild. No wonder Freddie was so emotional over the weekend.
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
Casey Close never told Freddie Freeman about the Braves final offer, that is why Freeman fired him. He found out in Atlanta this weekend. It isn’t that rare to have happen in MLB, but it happened - Close knew Freddie would have taken the ATL deal
I'm pretty skeptical of the final sentence. Close is no first time agent unsure what's going on. He's also not itching for a larger fee - guy represents people like Kershaw, Jeter, Greinke . . . his wife is (bleep) Gretchen Carlson, he's not desperate for a larger fee.
If he *knew* Freddie would take a deal, he'd offer it to him. More likely, Freddie gave him authority to disregard any offer below a certain amount/value, and this likely fell into it, so he rejected it.
Regardless, take this with a giant grain of salt
I heard/read differently. When the lockout ended, Close played hardball w/the Braves to get a new deal within 24 hrs, I think Close gave them a few counters and the Braves never got back to him.
Supposedly Freddie didn't want Close to give the Braves an ultimatum. Well it sounded like Close did and so Atlanta acted in their best interest.
Right, I knew that -- it's been reported extensively. In fact, Close gave them only an hour, not 24. But this Gottlieb guy -- and I don't know anything about whether he is credible -- is saying something new: he's saying Close never delivered to Freddie the 5/140 offer ATL made when baseball resumed in early March -- before the ultimatum was delivered on March 12 -- and that Freddie would have accepted that deal.
Which is pretty different from the current story that baseball began, ATL then went 5/140, Close responded with his ultimatum of 6/175 or 5/165 on March 12, and then ATL rejected and pivoted to Olson by the 13th.
Freddie Freeman botched his negotiations if he wanted to stay. Braves moved on like any other corporation, they found somebody else who could do the same job for the price being offered.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:33 pm Post subject:
lakersken80 wrote:
Freddie Freeman botched his negotiations if he wanted to stay. Braves moved on like any other corporation, they found somebody else who could do the same job for the price being offered.
Dan Patrick discussed this on his show.
Right. Frankly, the whole Freddie finding out now about the offer thing doesn't add up.
It was widely reported in March that Atlanta offered 5/140 when baseball resumed, Close countered with his ultimatum on March 12, and Atlanta walked immediately. On March 13, Olson was signed. Did Freddie (or his circle) not read those articles? Why is he mad now?
If Close didn't take the deal to his client --- which is pretty standard in these types of negotiations, particularly when the offer is a piddling $5MM move --- Freddie learned about it alongside the public pretty quickly. Why the fit now - signer's remorse? Pretty lame move.
At the end of the day, there's a lot of reasons for an agent to think he has authority to do whatever he wants. We don't know how much authority Freddie gave him, but if he had a practice of giving him wide latitude, it makes sense to me.
Braves prior offer was 5/135. When baseball resumed, they went 5/140. That's a piddling $5mm move. If you already spoke to Freddie about the 135, and he's telling you that's too low, get me more, get me another year, etc etc, as an agent you go - ok, 5/140 is obviously a no, let's instead do XX.
Consider further this is just weeks before the season starts. Close is probably feeling like he has leverage, so he rejects an offer his client has impliedly told him is garbage, and he sticks ATL with an ultimatum. He didn't anticipate ATL would probably just walk immediately and pivot to Olson. So he gets burned a bit. It is what it is.
As chipper told him - if you really want to be here, you have to make it happen. An agent is just going to do what they do - get you as much money as they can. Sometimes that means playing hardball. Chipper knew Braves GM is not a guy you do that with - apparently Close and Freddie didn't.
This is actually really wild. No wonder Freddie was so emotional over the weekend.
Doug Gottlieb
@GottliebShow
Casey Close never told Freddie Freeman about the Braves final offer, that is why Freeman fired him. He found out in Atlanta this weekend. It isn’t that rare to have happen in MLB, but it happened - Close knew Freddie would have taken the ATL deal
I'm pretty skeptical of the final sentence. Close is no first time agent unsure what's going on. He's also not itching for a larger fee - guy represents people like Kershaw, Jeter, Greinke . . . his wife is (bleep) Gretchen Carlson, he's not desperate for a larger fee.
If he *knew* Freddie would take a deal, he'd offer it to him. More likely, Freddie gave him authority to disregard any offer below a certain amount/value, and this likely fell into it, so he rejected it.
Regardless, take this with a giant grain of salt
I heard/read differently. When the lockout ended, Close played hardball w/the Braves to get a new deal within 24 hrs, I think Close gave them a few counters and the Braves never got back to him.
Supposedly Freddie didn't want Close to give the Braves an ultimatum. Well it sounded like Close did and so Atlanta acted in their best interest.
Right, I knew that -- it's been reported extensively. In fact, Close gave them only an hour, not 24. But this Gottlieb guy -- and I don't know anything about whether he is credible -- is saying something new: he's saying Close never delivered to Freddie the 5/140 offer ATL made when baseball resumed in early March -- before the ultimatum was delivered on March 12 -- and that Freddie would have accepted that deal.
Which is pretty different from the current story that baseball began, ATL then went 5/140, Close responded with his ultimatum of 6/175 or 5/165 on March 12, and then ATL rejected and pivoted to Olson by the 13th.
this is just the Braves saving face... after screwing the face of their franchise, after winning the WS...
then added a slap in the face by signing Olson, when Freeman has not even signed with any team yet,
their young guys proceeded to add insult to injury dissing Freddie, saying they never liked him anyways... _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it."
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:27 pm Post subject:
Did anyone mention that we called up Lamb, biting that $2.5MM bullet? His opt-out date was Friday, so I guess the Dodgers decided that he could legit help us. So far, so good.
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:50 pm Post subject:
Oh, and I also noticed in a tweet today from one of the reporters (may have been Passan or Rosenthal) that Manfred wants to implement electronic balls and strikes by 2024. To which, I say...
Oh, and I also noticed in a tweet today from one of the reporters (may have been Passan or Rosenthal) that Manfred wants to implement electronic balls and strikes by 2024. To which, I say...
Did anyone mention that we called up Lamb, biting that $2.5MM bullet? His opt-out date was Friday, so I guess the Dodgers decided that he could legit help us. So far, so good.
I thought it was $1.5M?
Quote:
Lamb’s contract calls for a reported $1.5 million seasonal salary while in the majors.
Also, it's prorated.
He got called up on our 64th game, which means he missed the first 63 and he can play a max of 99 games.
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