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cthroatgtr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:50 am    Post subject:

Game was mostly ugly then they rallied just to tease us. Same issues game after game. I will add you cannot blame injuries when your entire team is old and prone to injuries.

No chance this team wins a chip this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:52 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Another excellent write up.

I had many thoughts on this game, but reading the replies on this thread, my thoughts have already been stated very well above.

This roster construction is still flawed, we lack solid 2 way support players, and we can't put WB in the starting unit without sacrificing having athletic defenders on the floor considering who we have on this roster. Particularly considering who's still healthy enough to play. Therefore, no lead is safe, and games title contending teams win ugly are games we lose ugly.

Last time I saw switching this bad was before Vogel, when we had no clue what we are doing on defense. Vogel is still a solid defensive minded coach, it was classy of Lue to throw him some support postgame, but it looks like several players on this year's roster just won't commit to learning team defense no matter who is coach.

Yes, it will take some juevos to move WB to the second unit, but that would be a start.
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deal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:27 am    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Reggie Jackson made Reaves his b#tch tonight in the 4th.



Reggie es a solid Vet & Reaves is still a very good asset, he just has a
way to go.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:28 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB.


Lakers want to play hero ball in the 4th, that's just ridiculous....
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:57 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
markjay wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Ibaka with all those easy baskets against our guards was so frustrating to watch


Yep. I kept remembering when we had larger lineups that could rotate, with guys like Kuzma, KCP, Trez. We gave up a heck of a lot of size and depth for one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

When I watch the Dodgers, win or lose, I feel like most of the team's decisions have been made on the basis of sound analytics and the front office is thus putting out the best team they can for the dollars. With the Lakers? Not so much. It makes it frustrating to watch.

Normally when they do this switch last year, some one from the weak side (lebron/Kuz/Kieff) would come over and take the center /PF and let AD stay out there, and we just don’t have the size anymore. Stanley makes some rotational mistakes, and we can’t blame him because he barely played long enough. Vogel need to ask the smalls to fight over the screen or trap from now on, those lazy switches are the reason we suck so much. How many random big guys had career numbers against us?


One of the first things I knew I would miss is how well AC would make guys have to rescreen or would bust sequences because he'd get over the top of those screens and kept guys going east/west. He did it over and over and over. It's not something that's exciting but it adds up over the course of a game. When that wasn't there, he'd chase and pressure from the backside and often recover. Front office clearly didn't value that.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:03 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
Reggie Jackson made Reaves his b#tch tonight in the 4th.



Reggie es a solid Vet & Reaves is still a very good asset, he just has a
way to go.


It wasn't Reaves best game, but he had some moments. He's earned his way into being in those situations, which is great for a rookie...amazing for an undrafted one. But ultimately, he's still a rookie and still seeing guys for the first or second times in his career.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:10 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
danzag wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Clippers are so well constructed. Length and/or athleticism at every position. Morris can put up numbers if needed, and this game he dropped 29 on 11-16 FG. Doesn’t get much better than that.


Remember when we had length and athleticism? Like... a year ago?

We still have length and athleticism. The issue is is that we can't play them together with WB. Our team was built around a big 3 concept, and it's been mainly a big 2. And the role guys have to fit in around WB not the other way around.

So for example, if we ran a backcourt of Reaves and Monk, with Bron running the point. Of course we could get away with having Dwight/AD at the 5/4. We could start those two and use our size inside and length and all that. We could be physical. There's things we could do if we went away from a big 3/WB is a star concept, that we are operating under.

Sure the guys that defend, bring length and some athleticism to the team are not good players on offense. They are limited. I totally see the flaws in the supporting cast. It isn't a group of KCPs, Caruso, Danny Green types that win you rings. That's one issue. But we have decent support guys that have shown they will defend, bring length and size. Stanley, Reaves, Bradley. You could start Bradley at the 1, Reaves at 2, Stanley at 3. AD/Bron inside. Teams will help off Bradley/Reaves/Stanley, but AD/Bron are good passers (Bron elite) and those 3 role guys CUT. They also don't mope around when their offense is not there. AD and Bron would have to revert to AD/Bron of 19-20, which I see no reason they can't. With AD's jumper normal again now, he's gonna be fine. Teams always ask for help on him anyway and he's rarely played 1 on 1.

However with WB, the spacing is all off. Since the entire team's concept is built around WB being the 3rd star, the spacing just doesn't make sense if you play your better defensive players with length. The worst thing is even though we're trying to give WB all this floor spacing and play a ton of 5 out offense and players that keep the paint open, WB's shooting and attacking spots are inconsistent. He will go 5-6 for one stretch and finish plays. Then he'll go 2-10. When he goes cold like that, our entire flow sucks.

The only way to save this season is for Frank to be given the green light to bring WB off the bench. Let Lebron be point guard to start the games, bring WB off the bench to play the Rondo role. Let WB be WB with a smaller ball 2nd unit and Bron comes back in as a small ball 5 with WB at point. Then if WB is shooting well, you close with him. If he's not, you play the starting core with Bron running point. Not only does this allow you to start AD at the 4 when the physical Centers are on the other team, it makes Dwight much more useful.

Does anyone have the balls to let WB know this? I don't think so. It would need to be a group effort of AD/Bron/Vogel all talking to WB. And WB understanding he can get 24-30 minutes off the bench and be a much bigger difference maker. But with the injuries, they'll likely just say they need to play together more as a big 3 and then when the season ends a failure, they'll just blame it all on Frank.

Lue BTW gave Frank a lot of compliments after the game. Frank's a respected coach. This was a (bleep) show he was given.


There's no way he comes off the bench. But you could give him the ball in his first shift, run some sequences just for him to get downhill. Then, he becomes the first sub out and we let LBJ go to work. Bring him back with a lineup that works for him to be aggressive. You decide whether to close with him or not, like Vogel finally got the green light on.

There's stuff we just can't run with him on the floor. When the ball is stuck in one area in AD/LBJ's hands and teams can just leave Westbrook to load up on the other threats...it's just bad to awful at times.

They were making progress but the offensive play calling has really regressed lately. Which is strange to see in a season. But I guess the turnover is causing problems in that regard.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:11 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
danzag wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Clippers are so well constructed. Length and/or athleticism at every position. Morris can put up numbers if needed, and this game he dropped 29 on 11-16 FG. Doesn’t get much better than that.
Remember when we had length and athleticism? Like... a year ago?
We still have length and athleticism. The issue is is that we can't play them together with WB. Our team was built around a big 3 concept, and it's been mainly a big 2. And the role guys have to fit in around WB not the other way around.

So for example, if we ran a backcourt of Reaves and Monk, with Bron running the point. Of course we could get away with having Dwight/AD at the 5/4. We could start those two and use our size inside and length and all that. We could be physical. There's things we could do if we went away from a big 3/WB is a star concept, that we are operating under.

Sure the guys that defend, bring length and some athleticism to the team are not good players on offense. They are limited. I totally see the flaws in the supporting cast. It isn't a group of KCPs, Caruso, Danny Green types that win you rings. That's one issue. But we have decent support guys that have shown they will defend, bring length and size. Stanley, Reaves, Bradley. You could start Bradley at the 1, Reaves at 2, Stanley at 3. AD/Bron inside. Teams will help off Bradley/Reaves/Stanley, but AD/Bron are good passers (Bron elite) and those 3 role guys CUT. They also don't mope around when their offense is not there. AD and Bron would have to revert to AD/Bron of 19-20, which I see no reason they can't. With AD's jumper normal again now, he's gonna be fine. Teams always ask for help on him anyway and he's rarely played 1 on 1.

However with WB, the spacing is all off. Since the entire team's concept is built around WB being the 3rd star, the spacing just doesn't make sense if you play your better defensive players with length. The worst thing is even though we're trying to give WB all this floor spacing and play a ton of 5 out offense and players that keep the paint open, WB's shooting and attacking spots are inconsistent. He will go 5-6 for one stretch and finish plays. Then he'll go 2-10. When he goes cold like that, our entire flow sucks.

The only way to save this season is for Frank to be given the green light to bring WB off the bench. Let Lebron be point guard to start the games, bring WB off the bench to play the Rondo role. Let WB be WB with a smaller ball 2nd unit and Bron comes back in as a small ball 5 with WB at point. Then if WB is shooting well, you close with him. If he's not, you play the starting core with Bron running point. Not only does this allow you to start AD at the 4 when the physical Centers are on the other team, it makes Dwight much more useful.

Does anyone have the balls to let WB know this? I don't think so. It would need to be a group effort of AD/Bron/Vogel all talking to WB. And WB understanding he can get 24-30 minutes off the bench and be a much bigger difference maker. But with the injuries, they'll likely just say they need to play together more as a big 3 and then when the season ends a failure, they'll just blame it all on Frank.

Lue BTW gave Frank a lot of compliments after the game. Frank's a respected coach. This was a (bleep) show he was given.
There's no way he comes off the bench. But you could give him the ball in his first shift, run some sequences just for him to get downhill. Then, he becomes the first sub out and we let LBJ go to work. Bring him back with a lineup that works for him to be aggressive. You decide whether to close with him or not, like Vogel finally got the green light on.

There's stuff we just can't run with him on the floor. When the ball is stuck in one area in AD/LBJ's hands and teams can just leave Westbrook to load up on the other threats...it's just bad to awful at times.

They were making progress but the offensive play calling has really regressed lately. Which is strange to see in a season. But I guess the turnover is causing problems in that regard.
Agree with the assessments

Remembering that LBJ/AD were strategic and very pursuasive to Rob about bringing Russ to the Lakers, identifying what works and jettison things that are not working needs to be done - especially between WB, AD, LBJ and the coaching staff needs to be done.

Repeating the same mistakes and not giving the effort are issues of accountability. Vogel can scream and shout, but it comes down to the leaders of this team to make sure that things actually get done with those that cannot - they will be setting next to Vogel on the bench

Love that Kuz (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html), Schoeder, KCP and others are doing. Hope that Caruso will heal quickly and that plays, like the one that injured him, are properly penalized. Not sure how they would thrive because they weren't given the opportunities they are receiving now with LBJ/AD.

Caruso was a puzzling head-turner but between Reeves to Johnson, they have a younger version of Caruso since they are doing all the dirty work that he was doing. However, they are rookies and inexperienced but they have the chance to grow into the "Caruso Roles."
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Are we using +/- for effectiveness or not this game?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:40 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
markjay wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Ibaka with all those easy baskets against our guards was so frustrating to watch


Yep. I kept remembering when we had larger lineups that could rotate, with guys like Kuzma, KCP, Trez. We gave up a heck of a lot of size and depth for one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

When I watch the Dodgers, win or lose, I feel like most of the team's decisions have been made on the basis of sound analytics and the front office is thus putting out the best team they can for the dollars. With the Lakers? Not so much. It makes it frustrating to watch.

Normally when they do this switch last year, some one from the weak side (lebron/Kuz/Kieff) would come over and take the center /PF and let AD stay out there, and we just don’t have the size anymore. Stanley makes some rotational mistakes, and we can’t blame him because he barely played long enough. Vogel need to ask the smalls to fight over the screen or trap from now on, those lazy switches are the reason we suck so much. How many random big guys had career numbers against us?


One of the first things I knew I would miss is how well AC would make guys have to rescreen or would bust sequences because he'd get over the top of those screens and kept guys going east/west. He did it over and over and over. It's not something that's exciting but it adds up over the course of a game. When that wasn't there, he'd chase and pressure from the backside and often recover. Front office clearly didn't value that.

Yeah, Reaves is the only one fighting over screens now, AC/KCP were both excellent at that, but not sure they would kept reaves if they resigned AC
Kieff was also very good at weak side help, and he was valuable in our small ball lineups due to his size. The “small ball” we ran in the bubble was Ad/Kieff/lebron front line which were pretty huge.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:01 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
markjay wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Ibaka with all those easy baskets against our guards was so frustrating to watch
Yep. I kept remembering when we had larger lineups that could rotate, with guys like Kuzma, KCP, Trez. We gave up a heck of a lot of size and depth for one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

When I watch the Dodgers, win or lose, I feel like most of the team's decisions have been made on the basis of sound analytics and the front office is thus putting out the best team they can for the dollars. With the Lakers? Not so much. It makes it frustrating to watch.
Normally when they do this switch last year, some one from the weak side (lebron/Kuz/Kieff) would come over and take the center /PF and let AD stay out there, and we just don’t have the size anymore. Stanley makes some rotational mistakes, and we can’t blame him because he barely played long enough. Vogel need to ask the smalls to fight over the screen or trap from now on, those lazy switches are the reason we suck so much. How many random big guys had career numbers against us?
One of the first things I knew I would miss is how well AC would make guys have to rescreen or would bust sequences because he'd get over the top of those screens and kept guys going east/west. He did it over and over and over. It's not something that's exciting but it adds up over the course of a game. When that wasn't there, he'd chase and pressure from the backside and often recover. Front office clearly didn't value that.
Yeah, Reaves is the only one fighting over screens now, AC/KCP were both excellent at that, but not sure they would kept reaves if they resigned AC
Kieff was also very good at weak side help, and he was valuable in our small ball lineups due to his size. The “small ball” we ran in the bubble was Ad/Kieff/lebron front line which were pretty huge.
Kief wanted out for numerous reasons and one might wonder how he would fit in this roster

Anthony Davis stated the following:

"“Me, him, and Bron can always have a bad night, and the other two can pick the third person up. When he’s playing the way he played in Charlotte, shooting the ball, getting downhill, making the right reads, passing, making his free throws, he adds more pressure on the defense and creates more opportunities for everyone else.

“Just trying to get him to play out of the slot more, that’s where we was effective in Charlotte, he stayed in the slot and was able to attack and make the right reads. When he’s in the middle of the floor, you usually have two guys sitting right there on both of the elbows and now it’s tough for him to navigate, but when he’s in the slot, he’s able to just have one guy and then another guy on the shooter in the corner and it was effective in Charlotte.

“So we tried to do some of that tonight and like I said, he’s just got to stay in attack mode. If he’s attacking, we’re a different team.”"
~ Is Anthony Davis right?

Would KCP be crucified because he isn't consistently providing offense, especially in the second half of the season?

Who will take up the offense slack with Melo not playing
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Been a while since I logged in much less posted. Haven't cared to post about this horse (bleep) show. Still lurk, still watch most of the games. But man, what you all are posting I agree with. It's so obvious that it must be politics and saving face that prevents the correct changes from happening. RW just doesn't work in the starting lineup. Yet, he evidently will not accept coming off the bench. Are LBJ and AD still under the illusion that the "big" 3 can work on the court together? It's on them to make it work. So far, they are sucking all the joy out of the season. And, yes, injuries are a side point. But the main point is that RW has to make accommodations for this to work. Not seeing it yet.
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