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1995Lakers
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Joined: 26 Aug 2020
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 Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | It’s unlikely the Lakers win with Ham and Pelinka. Kudos to Rob for the trade deadline trades but giving away the Houston game and waiting until the trade deadline to actually make the trades is an indication that he likely doesn’t have the understanding of the effort needed to win a title. LBJ moving to PG and leading the league in assists, in a bubble, with several months off, gave him the aberrant title but it’s unlikely that he or Ham are capable of winning a conventional championship. |
I still think the Lakers are winning it all if Lebron comes back and the rest of the guys are healthy.
DLO . Dennis
Beas . AR
Lebron . Troy
Vando . Rui
AD . Gabriel/Mo
That's a squad man. |
It is but D'Lo and Beas need to prove they can hit shots when they matter. If they can, we can go all the way. I almost feel like those two need to feel a painful playoff loss though to really mature and be able to perform under the brightest lights. Kinda like the 2008 Lakers. |
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Ksig
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Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 2093
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | Ksig wrote: | | I still cant believe we didnt draw up any plays for Austin down the stretch. Or Austin + AD pick and roll. |
No worries, ham is slow on adjustments, but he does make them. Since it took 66 games or so for him to realize AD and Wenyen can play together(would really helped for the Knicks game), I am sure he would realize this by all star break next season. |
Its just crazy to see. You had the Mavs who were force feeding Kyrie on every single play or at least trying to.
Then you had us who seemed allergic to even attempt to run a play for our best players. |
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MJST
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blackmamba08
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| His time as Lakers head coach is running down fast. The fans, media and Laker nation will not support him for long. I am just waiting the moment everyone will start to be against him and he is gone in a second. Just unfortunately for all of us saying that for long time that moment didn't come yet. It will soon. |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7148
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| Don't hold your breath. Jeannie is a tight azzz and will not want to pay him while taking on another coaches contract. |
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ThePageDude
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
Posts: 2573
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | His time as Lakers head coach is running down fast. The fans, media and Laker nation will not support him for long. I am just waiting the moment everyone will start to be against him and he is gone in a second. Just unfortunately for all of us saying that for long time that moment didn't come yet. It will soon. |
First year of a FOUR year contract when they're still paying out Vogel's contract this year? Now way no how lol |
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TMG
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Joined: 02 Jan 2019
Posts: 6945
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:00 am Post subject: |
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We've got this bum for 3 more years  |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | His time as Lakers head coach is running down fast. The fans, media and Laker nation will not support him for long. I am just waiting the moment everyone will start to be against him and he is gone in a second. Just unfortunately for all of us saying that for long time that moment didn't come yet. It will soon. |
The internet creates a bubble that skews perception of everything outside of it. On the internet, Ham is worthless and on the brink of termination. I would suspect outside the internet bubble the perception is quite different. Every team’s fans think their coach sucks and wants them fired after every loss. In the real world, I would put Ham’s odds of being fired this season at close to 0.
If he were to get fired buckle up for the Terry Stotts or Mark Jackson eras. Caveat emptor.
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blackmamba08
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | His time as Lakers head coach is running down fast. The fans, media and Laker nation will not support him for long. I am just waiting the moment everyone will start to be against him and he is gone in a second. Just unfortunately for all of us saying that for long time that moment didn't come yet. It will soon. |
The internet creates a bubble that skews perception of everything outside of it. On the internet, Ham is worthless and on the brink of termination. I would suspect outside the internet bubble the perception is quite different. Every team’s fans think their coach sucks and wants them fired after every loss. In the real world, I would put Ham’s odds of being fired this season at close to 0.
If he were to get fired buckle up for the Terry Stotts or Mark Jackson eras. Caveat emptor. |
I wonder what perception will be after starting next season 3-7. And it is quite probable knowing how bad he is as a coach. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I think I just view this stuff differently than alot of Lakers fans.
I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another.
To a large degree, I don't care how well Ham coaches a team without our big 2 in the season.
I care about how well Ham coaches our team with our big 2. Especially in the late season and playoffs.
There are coaches who are good at coaching lottery bound teams into the playoffs, but aren't championship coaches. There are coaches who are good at coaching teams late into the playoffs that should've lost in the 1st round, but aren't championship coaches. And then there are championship coaches.
It's pretty much the difference between MDA, Mike Brown, Thibs, Pop, and Phil. I mean look at Kerr. That guy ate alot of regular season crap from Warriors fans (2021 and 2022 seasons) on his way to a 2022 chip.
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Bron2AD
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Joined: 01 Jun 2021
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| I hope they force him to hire some head coaches on his staff. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another |
He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Sure he had Westbrook and had no idea how to deal with him. Maybe because he was a first time head coach but it took Ty Lue a few games to figure it out and make Westbrook a positive. Not a knock on Ham but a big f you to Rob and Jeanie for their crappy decision making. It’s hard to compete with Nordstroms when your management is KMart.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Lakeshow23_
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Joined: 02 May 2021
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sure he had Westbrook and had no idea how to deal with him. Maybe because he was a first time head coach but it took Ty Lue a few games to figure it out and make Westbrook a positive. Not a knock on Ham but a big f you to Rob and Jeanie for their crappy decision making. It’s hard to compete with Nordstroms when your management is KMart. |
They have a roster full of NBA level players and acquired Westbrook at zero cost. We traded away all of our NBA level players for Westbrook and had to dig in the scrap heap to fill out our roster. It's easier to integrate him when he's surrounded by talent and you can afford to only play him 20-25 minutes when he gets out of hand. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sure he had Westbrook and had no idea how to deal with him. Maybe because he was a first time head coach but it took Ty Lue a few games to figure it out and make Westbrook a positive. Not a knock on Ham but a big f you to Rob and Jeanie for their crappy decision making. It’s hard to compete with Nordstroms when your management is KMart. |
They have a roster full of NBA level players and acquired Westbrook at zero cost. We traded away all of our NBA level players for Westbrook and had to dig in the scrap heap to fill out our roster. It's easier to integrate him when he's surrounded by talent and you can afford to only play him 20-25 minutes when he gets out of hand. |
read my post again, the point isn’t Westbrook, it is the FO being cheap and passing on the better head coach. Blame Rob and Jeanie.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Lakeshow23_
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Lakeshow23_ wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sure he had Westbrook and had no idea how to deal with him. Maybe because he was a first time head coach but it took Ty Lue a few games to figure it out and make Westbrook a positive. Not a knock on Ham but a big f you to Rob and Jeanie for their crappy decision making. It’s hard to compete with Nordstroms when your management is KMart. |
They have a roster full of NBA level players and acquired Westbrook at zero cost. We traded away all of our NBA level players for Westbrook and had to dig in the scrap heap to fill out our roster. It's easier to integrate him when he's surrounded by talent and you can afford to only play him 20-25 minutes when he gets out of hand. |
read my post again, the point isn’t Westbrook, it is the FO being cheap and passing on the better head coach. Blame Rob and Jeanie. |
I know but Lue wouldn't have been able to make Westbrook work with this roster either. Too much of a talent deficiency. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I think that Lue very well could have made Westbrook work here. The holes on the perimeter and defensively would still exist but again, that is on the FO.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3786
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| Ventura, this Clippers success is direct proportional to a rested superstar with another star and a loaded roster with 2 7 footer included. all this dispite of Russ. |
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LakersRGolden
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Dallas went 16-34 from 3. Drop coverage is criminal against teams with shooters.
Outscoring teams is not a reliable perimeter defense. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another |
He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are. |
A lot of fair points here. But there’s still the matter of his making a good number of tactical mistakes that have cost the team games. Some of that could be his lack of experience and we just need to let him learn on the job while banking on the other areas where he is stronger. That’s not typically the profile you want in a coach when you have a short window.
Part of that is why I think the team has shifted to post LeBron planning. They’ll happily keep him around for the next couple years, but they’ve already started seeding the transition.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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ksmgf
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5057
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| TMG wrote: | | We've got this bum for 3 more years |
We move on from Vogel for this loser |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another |
He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are. |
A lot of fair points here. But there’s still the matter of his making a good number of tactical mistakes that have cost the team games. Some of that could be his lack of experience and we just need to let him learn on the job while banking on the other areas where he is stronger. That’s not typically the profile you want in a coach when you have a short window.
Part of that is why I think the team has shifted to post LeBron planning. They’ll happily keep him around for the next couple years, but they’ve already started seeding the transition. |
All coaches lose their team games with mistakes from time to time. For all the Ty Lue worship here (and I think he’s a great coach) you should have seen how Clipper boards felt about him this season. All the same stuff, all the same outrage that’s directed at Ham was directed at Lue. Internet fans are emotional and I think the vitriol for Ham has been more than a little bit overblown. He was dealt a horrible hand and has done a decent job keeping the ship afloat when it could have sunk. We will have a better idea of what he’s capable of next year with more stability to the roster and hopefully better health. No coach is going to come here and win a ton of games with the two best players always hurt and the roster in disarray.
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scout_0
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Dallas went 16-34 from 3. Drop coverage is criminal against teams with shooters.
Outscoring teams is not a reliable perimeter defense. |
It is a pattern recognition problem Ham has.
He has a good strategy, drop coverage but does not know when and when not to apply it. For example, as you said...if a team is a good 3pt shooting team why would you drop? the numbers are telling you not to. But whatever, I think when LeBron comes back he will coach us
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Polarbear
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | His time as Lakers head coach is running down fast. The fans, media and Laker nation will not support him for long. I am just waiting the moment everyone will start to be against him and he is gone in a second. Just unfortunately for all of us saying that for long time that moment didn't come yet. It will soon. |
Boy are you about to be disappointed |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I have an order of criticism. And with LBJ and AD missing so many games. Its tough for me to have any definitive view on Ham one way or another |
He’s had about the worst circumstances you can ask for, particularly for a first time HC. His stars are never there. He had Westbrook. The roster for 2/3 of the season was awful. Then they overhauled the whole thing with a few weeks to go where everything is suddenly a must win game but your best player is still out indefinitely and your other star comes and goes. And yet, he’s had them playing hard for most of the season and kept them afloat when they could have cratered. He’s made mistakes, for sure, as all coaches do. But unless anyone believes that just this season Steve Kerr went from elite coach to terrible and Mike Brown went from terrible to elite: it turns out a coach’s circumstances tend to dictate how successful they are. |
A lot of fair points here. But there’s still the matter of his making a good number of tactical mistakes that have cost the team games. Some of that could be his lack of experience and we just need to let him learn on the job while banking on the other areas where he is stronger. That’s not typically the profile you want in a coach when you have a short window.
Part of that is why I think the team has shifted to post LeBron planning. They’ll happily keep him around for the next couple years, but they’ve already started seeding the transition. |
All coaches lose their team games with mistakes from time to time. For all the Ty Lue worship here (and I think he’s a great coach) you should have seen how Clipper boards felt about him this season. All the same stuff, all the same outrage that’s directed at Ham was directed at Lue. Internet fans are emotional and I think the vitriol for Ham has been more than a little bit overblown. He was dealt a horrible hand and has done a decent job keeping the ship afloat when it could have sunk. We will have a better idea of what he’s capable of next year with more stability to the roster and hopefully better health. No coach is going to come here and win a ton of games with the two best players always hurt and the roster in disarray. |
Again solid points, especially (imo) the bolded. I just think there is a balance to acknowledging the circumstance and appreciating the positives with assessment of the mistakes he has made and how that bodes for his being part of a successful team.
Not letting things capsize is commendable and was important for this year's team. But that's a different skillset imo than being an asset to a contender. The areas that Ham has struggled tactically, developing strategies and making in-game adjustment, are precisely the type of things you need from a coach in the playoffs. If we make it to the playoffs, I won't be surprised to see Ham play our five best man defenders and put them in a zone, or overplay Beas even though the other team is targeting him and he's cold, or playing small even though we're getting torched on the boards.
It's not to write him off. Just need him to grow. It would be great for us to get into the playoffs and have him face a more experienced coach. Would also be spectacular for the team to hire an associate head coach that can be a different type of resource than what he has at the moment.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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