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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | | Maybe there won’t be a blockbuster trade, but I have to think some of these guys have to go. Once reeves and Walker come back I’m not even sure who would get minutes. |
Yup. It's still a huge log jam. Max will 100% likely go back to bench. Dennis has shown to be starter material. Russ has not but has 6th man role locked up. Austin and Lonnie we're key contributors. Beverly is a small point guard trying to guard 1-4. I haven't hated Troy Brown as backup 3 and Lonnie/Austin/Bev are all out of position there.
AD, Rui, LeBron, Austin, Dennisto me is the best starting 5 we can make. Add in other guys:
AD, Bryant, Gabriel
Rui,_____
LeBron, Brown Jr
Austin, Lonnie**, Max
Dennis, _____
Russ, Beverly, Jones, JTA are the 4 guys I'd like to see moved. Lonnie can be in this category too as he has some value although I like him, TB, Troy, and Wenyan off the bench. So I guess Rob's decision is who can fetch what because IMO we have options. Ideally you get something for Russ but he's the hardest to move. Lonnie is likely gone this summer so he makes sense but again, I like him off the bench. I think Russ pushing a 2nd unit or Russ/Lonnie/Brown/Bryant + Gabriel is nice although Russ will always be Russ.
In sum, it's quite the situation Rob has created. Ideally you can turn those guys into another big wing and keep the other(s) for guard spots. |
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miggz23
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Joined: 29 Nov 2018
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there.
Last edited by miggz23 on Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2019
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Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10812
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | well what trade could possibly make us "instant" contenders that the other team would "give up' for 2 FRPS??
has to be all-star level 1, 2, 3 or 5. who is even remotely "out there"? |
See this Rob and Jeanie's biggest issue and he's simply telling it the world.. they are living in a star chasing paradigm. They're simply going to wait it out til a star pops up on the market (Dame, Beal, KD, Jimmy, etc). While I can't fault them for aiming high, they are missing the key element to building from where we are.. the need to create assets while also building a competent deep roster - and then, if a star comes up, have pieces to move.
I'd much rather Rob be creative and find a way to split those picks up, add some protections and get deals done that benefit us long term. Rui was a good move. We resign him to a fair deal and he's something traceable or maybe a key contributor. |
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ChickenStu
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| There are people here who think Westbrook is more important/valuable than Beverley? Really? Westbrook has been even worse this year than he was last year. He's one of the most maddening players I've ever watched, one of the lowest-IQ players I think I've ever seen. His offensive inefficiency is gross, and whatever playmaking he provides is more than offset by his ridiculous turnovers, which often lead directly to points by the other team. He's an empty calorie guy who hunts for numbers, and has for a very long time now. |
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aiel
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Joined: 16 May 2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Agree, it's crazy to me that people keep wanting more offense while completely ignoring why we lose games. Again, we were destroyed on the boards. The player available is Poetl, who pairs with Davis and Bryant better than Turner. |
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| aiel wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Agree, it's crazy to me that people keep wanting more offense while completely ignoring why we lose games. Again, we were destroyed on the boards. The player available is Poetl, who pairs with Davis and Bryant better than Turner. |
I’d honestly just look at Plumlee for cheap rather than paying big time for Poeltl, if we look to go that way
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st |
You don't need Lonnie. You can do Bev + Damian Jones (now you can avoid his opt-in in the summer) for GTJ, but I think you'd have to unprotect that first or very lightly protect it and add seconds. |
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aiel
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | aiel wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Agree, it's crazy to me that people keep wanting more offense while completely ignoring why we lose games. Again, we were destroyed on the boards. The player available is Poetl, who pairs with Davis and Bryant better than Turner. |
I’d honestly just look at Plumlee for cheap rather than paying big time for Poeltl, if we look to go that way |
Plumlee doesn't solve our defensive and rebounding issues.
This is what a spurs fan wrote about Poeltl
"He's a premier rim protector. Like extremely good. Not just at blocking shots but just positioning himself to deter drives in the first place. He's big and bulky enough, with good enough footwork to be a very good defender in the post, but is extremely underrated when it comes to his perimeter defense. He's no Evan mobley, but he moves his feet much better than you would ever expect at his size and heft. Plenty of point guards have licked their chops. When pulling him out to the perimeter in the past only to be surprised when he is been able to recover for a great contest or a shot block on the drive.
You would be hard pressed to find too many players who screen better than Jacob. Screen assists are a very underrated part of a center's job and he does it immaculately.
He's a true elite offensive rebounder
He's turned into a great passer. Particularly from the high post. He's extremely good at picking out cutters and guys coming off screens in particular. San Antonio often runs their offense through him. They will get him the ball early and allow him to hold towards the top while players start dashing around screens and cutting. Trusting him to essentially decide where he wants the ball to go next and how the offense should develop."
He'll also help extend Davis' career by handling more of the physical pounding.
Last edited by aiel on Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st |
You don't need Lonnie. You can do Bev + Damian Jones (now you can avoid his opt-in in the summer) for GTJ, but I think you'd have to unprotect that first or very lightly protect it and add seconds. |
How do you then fit all of RWB/Schroder/Lonnie/Reaves/GTJ in the rotation whilst not being too small?
Think Lonnie as a bargaining chip instead of Jones to get such a deal over the line is fine. Besides, we likely won’t be able to re-sign him this summer anyway, and Klutch probably likes that Lonnie gets to showcase himself as a likely starter in Canada rather than have to fight for minutes
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levon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | levon wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st |
You don't need Lonnie. You can do Bev + Damian Jones (now you can avoid his opt-in in the summer) for GTJ, but I think you'd have to unprotect that first or very lightly protect it and add seconds. |
How do you then fit all of RWB/Schroder/Lonnie/Reaves/GTJ in the rotation whilst not being too small?
Think Lonnie as a bargaining chip instead of Jones to get such a deal over the line is fine. Besides, we likely won’t be able to re-sign him this summer anyway, and Klutch probably likes that Lonnie gets to showcase himself as a likely starter in Canada rather than have to fight for minutes |
You can trade Lonnie for another roundout piece if you so wish. He's sort of useless as a bargaining chip because nobody has any rights over him. And I don't know that he'd start on the Raptors. Though he does fit their wingspan fetish. I'm simply saying he's not required to make the deal work, and we likely have to find a way to move D Jones either now or in the summer. |
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | levon wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st |
You don't need Lonnie. You can do Bev + Damian Jones (now you can avoid his opt-in in the summer) for GTJ, but I think you'd have to unprotect that first or very lightly protect it and add seconds. |
How do you then fit all of RWB/Schroder/Lonnie/Reaves/GTJ in the rotation whilst not being too small?
Think Lonnie as a bargaining chip instead of Jones to get such a deal over the line is fine. Besides, we likely won’t be able to re-sign him this summer anyway, and Klutch probably likes that Lonnie gets to showcase himself as a likely starter in Canada rather than have to fight for minutes |
You can trade Lonnie for another roundout piece if you so wish. He's sort of useless as a bargaining chip because nobody has any rights over him. And I don't know that he'd start on the Raptors. Though he does fit their wingspan fetish. I'm simply saying he's not required to make the deal work, and we likely have to find a way to move D Jones either now or in the summer. |
I might be blanking on who’d start over him, but he seems like he fits the bill the best for them at the 2
If they take Bev/Jones/1st though, you take that and run. I’d probably then look to move Lonnie nonetheless, though - maybe him and a 2nd for some more wing/big depth?
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epic_
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Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 11310
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:10 am Post subject: |
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An earthquake of a trade will happen!
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:20 am Post subject: |
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For you Reddish fanatics:
| Quote: | Both Hachimura and Reddish are in the final years of their rookie contracts. Both were top-10 draft picks in 2019. Only a year ago, the Washington Wizards were still lauding Hachimura as a significant part of their core. Yet on Monday, they sent him away for three second-rounders and Kendrick Nunn, a formerly fiery scorer who acted mostly as salary filler. That can’t help the market for a player like Reddish, who is at a similar career point but also is as far out of his coach’s rotation as a player can reach.
The Knicks have expressed to certain teams they want two second-round picks in exchange for Reddish, league front-office sources told The Athletic. Sources from other organizations have said they believe New York is more amenable to taking back only one second-rounder for the 23-year-old. If Hachimura, a regular contributor in Washington, commands three second-round picks (with two of them far into the future and one of them bound for the 50s), then a couple of seconds for Reddish becomes even more ambitious. |
| Quote: | Because Reddish was a high draft pick, his qualifying offer is pricey: approximately $7 million. But considering he’s not playing at all right now, it’s likely his market value would be less than that, which means teams may not want to extend him the qualifying offer at all. And that’s the predicament. Whichever team he’s on come the end of the season could be staring at one of two things: a team-unfriendly, one-year salary or his unrestricted free agency when he could bolt elsewhere.
If that’s the case, other front offices may consider a trade for Reddish, despite his age, to be a rental and not a long-term play. And players acquired for a 30-game stretch and who have been out of their team’s rotations for two months don’t bring back close to the value Reddish once had.
The teams interested in him will not want to gamble with the difference between, say, a minimum salary and his qualifying offer, either. Look at the group that has reportedly contacted the Knicks about him. The Lakers have cap room next summer and won’t want to bite into it. The Milwaukee Bucks and Dallas Mavericks will have luxury tax concerns.
It’s why the Reddish market is more complex than just seeing potential in a young talent or a reaction to what the Lakers gave up for Hachimura. |
https://theathletic.com/4120377/2023/01/24/knicks-questions-trade-deadline/
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miggz23
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| alleyoop wrote: | | levon wrote: | | alleyoop wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | Barry Seal wrote: | | This team needs defense badly. Old Bojan doesn’t help that |
Another tall lengthy wing is nice, but I would prefer a SG who can consistently give us 17-22ppg. Lonnie is nice but not consistent enough.
I’m done with PatBev starting at SG. Huge handicap at that position. He is no longer the defensive player he was once who can make an impact the whole time he’s in there. |
Still think GTJ is that guy. Solid on defense, can put up 18 a game, can shoot, is a good SG size - what’s not to like
PatBev + Lonnie + protected 1st |
You don't need Lonnie. You can do Bev + Damian Jones (now you can avoid his opt-in in the summer) for GTJ, but I think you'd have to unprotect that first or very lightly protect it and add seconds. |
How do you then fit all of RWB/Schroder/Lonnie/Reaves/GTJ in the rotation whilst not being too small?
Think Lonnie as a bargaining chip instead of Jones to get such a deal over the line is fine. Besides, we likely won’t be able to re-sign him this summer anyway, and Klutch probably likes that Lonnie gets to showcase himself as a likely starter in Canada rather than have to fight for minutes |
Schro/Russ
GTJ/Walker/Christie
Lebron/Reaves/TBJ
Rui/Wenyen/JTA
AD/TB
I don’t mind keeping Walker as an instant scorer off the bench. Can easily pull him if he’s not having a good game. |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Like I've said, Pelinka hasn't done anything. He's just got Lebron at the right time at the moment when the Lakers also had so many assets after years of tanking. The 2020 championship was all Lebron and luck.
All he has to do is put a decent team around Lebron and he couldn't even do that. PatBev is pure trash btw. Thanks for nothing, Pelinka.
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rock0100
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:09 am Post subject: |
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We do need defense, but what happened against the Clippers yesterday should never happen.
It reminded me of NBA2k where you call for a pick and roll, get an open 3. Pass the ball around a few times, get an open 3.
If Ham can’t fix that issue of closings out and staying on a man, there is not a trade out there to save us. |
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lakerican
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| rock0100 wrote: | We do need defense, but what happened against the Clippers yesterday should never happen.
It reminded me of NBA2k where you call for a pick and roll, get an open 3. Pass the ball around a few times, get an open 3.
If Ham can’t fix that issue of closings out and staying on a man, there is not a trade out there to save us. |
Closing to whom? 7 players combined for 15 3's in the 1st half for > 65% |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | | rock0100 wrote: | We do need defense, but what happened against the Clippers yesterday should never happen.
It reminded me of NBA2k where you call for a pick and roll, get an open 3. Pass the ball around a few times, get an open 3.
If Ham can’t fix that issue of closings out and staying on a man, there is not a trade out there to save us. |
Closing to whom? 7 players combined for 15 3's in the 1st half for > 65% |
In their next game, the clippers will shoot 17% from 3 
I’m just waiting to see if Kawhi is going to be playing possum again or if he legitimately gets hurt again. April is around the corner. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | There are people here who think Westbrook is more important/valuable than Beverley? Really? Westbrook has been even worse this year than he was last year. He's one of the most maddening players I've ever watched, one of the lowest-IQ players I think I've ever seen. His offensive inefficiency is gross, and whatever playmaking he provides is more than offset by his ridiculous turnovers, which often lead directly to points by the other team. He's an empty calorie guy who hunts for numbers, and has for a very long time now. |
Without Westbrook, the season would already be over. I have never been a fan of Westbrook, but it's still true. Without Westbrook, we have no offensive punch off the bench. I credit Beverley for his defense. In fact, I have argued that the Beverley bashers are wrong. But he still hasn't been as valuable as Westbrook. This says more about the flaws in the roster than the quality of Westbrook's play, but it's still true.
The metrics confirm this. RAPTOR has Westbrook at -1.5 and Beverley at -3.7. DARKO has Westbrook at +0.1 and Beverley at -0.8. EPM has Westbrook at +0.4 and Beverley at -2.5. RAPM has Westbrook at -0.45 and Beverley at -1.09. Metrics are never definitive, but when they all say the same thing, it's significant.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| aiel wrote: | | This is what a spurs fan wrote about Poeltl |
Poeltl? We don't have enough money to shop at that store.
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought - should we look at a different Bogdanovic? Would Bogdan cost less in regards to pick value than Bojan? Would still help our shooting woes
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alleyoop
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | There are people here who think Westbrook is more important/valuable than Beverley? Really? Westbrook has been even worse this year than he was last year. He's one of the most maddening players I've ever watched, one of the lowest-IQ players I think I've ever seen. His offensive inefficiency is gross, and whatever playmaking he provides is more than offset by his ridiculous turnovers, which often lead directly to points by the other team. He's an empty calorie guy who hunts for numbers, and has for a very long time now. |
Without Westbrook, the season would already be over. I have never been a fan of Westbrook, but it's still true. Without Westbrook, we have no offensive punch off the bench. I credit Beverley for his defense. In fact, I have argued that the Beverley bashers are wrong. But he still hasn't been as valuable as Westbrook. This says more about the flaws in the roster than the quality of Westbrook's play, but it's still true.
The metrics confirm this. RAPTOR has Westbrook at -1.5 and Beverley at -3.7. DARKO has Westbrook at +0.1 and Beverley at -0.8. EPM has Westbrook at +0.4 and Beverley at -2.5. RAPM has Westbrook at -0.45 and Beverley at -1.09. Metrics are never definitive, but when they all say the same thing, it's significant. |
PatBev's LEBRON is 1.74, Russ' LEBRON is -1
FWIW I've never understood the differences between each of the metrics, so for me, it's hard to percieve the value of each of them haha
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | There are people here who think Westbrook is more important/valuable than Beverley? Really? Westbrook has been even worse this year than he was last year. He's one of the most maddening players I've ever watched, one of the lowest-IQ players I think I've ever seen. His offensive inefficiency is gross, and whatever playmaking he provides is more than offset by his ridiculous turnovers, which often lead directly to points by the other team. He's an empty calorie guy who hunts for numbers, and has for a very long time now. |
Without Westbrook, the season would already be over. I have never been a fan of Westbrook, but it's still true. Without Westbrook, we have no offensive punch off the bench. I credit Beverley for his defense. In fact, I have argued that the Beverley bashers are wrong. But he still hasn't been as valuable as Westbrook. This says more about the flaws in the roster than the quality of Westbrook's play, but it's still true.
The metrics confirm this. RAPTOR has Westbrook at -1.5 and Beverley at -3.7. DARKO has Westbrook at +0.1 and Beverley at -0.8. EPM has Westbrook at +0.4 and Beverley at -2.5. RAPM has Westbrook at -0.45 and Beverley at -1.09. Metrics are never definitive, but when they all say the same thing, it's significant. |
This is true, but at 47m, just really hinders our ability to add depth to the team. I would say he's probably a 15m level player right now. That 30m delta is killing us in terms of the quality of depth we have. Obviously we have Lonnie/Reaves/AD/Rui all out against the Clips, but we just have a surplus of guards as they are usually easier to obtain than 3/D wings.
I would be amenable to deals that included Russ/1st/2nds for deals such as:
1. Bojan/Burks/Noel: Last two players are on team options, so gives the Lakers flexibility. Doubt we can get them for just 1st though.
2. Charlotte: I would actually take on Hayward (when healthy, almost an ideal fit next to LBJ as a scorer/secondary playmaker), PJ, Plumlee or some other variation. Would allow us to be a bigger team.
His playmaking would be missed, but I don't think that should be a reason not to stock up on wings if we can get them.
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defense
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Anyone like this potential line up?
Reaves
Rui
Lebron
Davis
Turner |
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