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LakerSD
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 Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:45 am Post subject: |
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They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis.
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kfkilla
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | They haven’t even offered an extension to Dangelo Russell — they probably wont, because of repeater tax — and you guys are adding Buddy’s $20 million salary on our books, while throwing away our lottery pick. I just don’t know what to say. Most of the guys on the roster will be gone. Last year it was Malik Monk. This year it is Malik Beasley. Next year it could be Terrance Ross. (free agent list).
I thought Malik Monk was better than Buddy Hield last year, and they let him walk. |
So they burned a 2027 FRP to not offer an extension for both DLO/Beas? They just did that to help out Ainge?  |
Reminder that they burned a FRP to get DS the first time around. The FRP that turned into Desmond Bane I believe. They let Dennis walk away the first time around without extending him. Say what you want about DS not signing the 80m contract in February of that year but in July he left for 5m and the Lakers let him. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| kfkilla wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | They haven’t even offered an extension to Dangelo Russell — they probably wont, because of repeater tax — and you guys are adding Buddy’s $20 million salary on our books, while throwing away our lottery pick. I just don’t know what to say. Most of the guys on the roster will be gone. Last year it was Malik Monk. This year it is Malik Beasley. Next year it could be Terrance Ross. (free agent list).
I thought Malik Monk was better than Buddy Hield last year, and they let him walk. |
So they burned a 2027 FRP to not offer an extension for both DLO/Beas? They just did that to help out Ainge? |
Reminder that they burned a FRP to get DS the first time around. The FRP that turned into Desmond Bane I believe. They let Dennis walk away the first time around without extending him. Say what you want about DS not signing the 80m contract in February of that year but in July he left for 5m and the Lakers let him. |
But that was a good team, and the lakers knew it would be a pretty low pick (the pick was actually Jaden McDaniels IIRC).
This was a 2027 FRP, which could be a lottery one b/c that will likely be post LBJ/AD.
And the hope is they learned their lesson. If you can't get DLO to even cooperate in a S&T or the other team doesn't want him, this team is royally screwed in terms of asset management. Cannot even get close to getting that same level of production for min deals/TPMLE.
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| Sadly, we as fans are more invested in this team winning than the administration. Its not worth getting angry about the inadequacies of the team because nothing will change. Asset management has been horrendous. Coach selection (and lack of wanting to pay for a QUALIFIED coach) has been horrible. Having a stud who is made of glass telling you for a couple of years that he does not want to play the 5 and and doing nothing about it is insane. Having a very small team and not grabbing a big on the cheap for the playoff push is MORONIC. Despite his bonehead moves, Rob did make some nice moves at the deadline. Unfortunately, he failed to finish the race. Meat head is sealing the deal with his rotations and choosing not to play a valued player. Sorry about the rant. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | petergr wrote: | Is Buddy H that much of an upgrade over Beasley? So many players will look better playing for Rick Carlisle compared to Ham.
It takes a couple of late firsts to move up from late 20s into 15/16 range. Lakers should stop making win now trades and stick somewhat younger players |
Hield is a significant upgrade over Beasley. He is a much better shooter and has more aspects to his game. In a vacuum, Hield over Beasley is a no-brainer.
That said, I wouldn't trade significant assets to get Hield at this point. I am not sure the Lakers would be willing to pay his $19 million salary with our other obligations. |
Hield in a vacuum has never helped a team win games before. Hield has no playoff experience. Hield as a rotation player has never made a team even good enough to play as a play in team.
Beasley has been in playoff rotations. Beasley has averaged 20 in the league. Beasley simply has him beat in results in this league.
Right now Hield is Shareef Abdur Rahim, a loser that gets numbers but always loses when he touches anything |
There's no reason to puff up Beasley's accomplishments beyond what they actually are. Let reality speak for itself
In his 7 year NBA career, Beasley has been with two teams that made the playoffs. He has played in 20 playoff games as a bench player where he averaged 8 ppg. The two teams went 9-11.
He has never averaged 20 ppg over a full season. I think he had one season where he played 37 games an averaged 20 ppg if you round up. For his career, he has averaged 10.8 ppg.
In his 7-year career, Hield has never been on a team that made the playoffs. His career scoring average is 16 ppg. He had one 82 game season where he averaged 20.7 ppg
If you think Beasley has a more successful career based on the specifics and the realities of what each of them did, fair enough. But when you resort to puffery, it suggest that you aren't really that impressed with Beasley yourself. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Yes Buddy Hield is better than Malik Beasley.
Next season Malik Beasley will get 16.5 Million if the Lakers pick up that option.
Next season Buddy Hield will get 18.5 Million right before he hits Unrestricted Free Agency.
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. If successful(along with re-signing D'Angelo) you'd walk into next season with a starting lineup looking like this
D'Angelo Russell
Buddy Hield
LeBron James
Jarred Vanderbilt
Anthony Davis
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Megaton
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Yes Buddy Hield is better than Malik Beasley.
Next season Malik Beasley will get 16.5 Million if the Lakers pick up that option.
Next season Buddy Hield will get 18.5 Million right before he hits Unrestricted Free Agency.
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. |
Lol at trading a lottery pick for a slightly more consistent version of Beasley while we already have Reaves, Christie and DLO.
That would be pure incompetence. There is much bigger holes to fill than a chucking, small and no defending guard.
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Palin
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| I would trade Beasley for a big. Both AD and Bamba are injury prone, we need a big guy. Hope DS would be ok with tax payer mle and i don't think teams will will offer him more than that. With Reaves getting paid and Max improving we just dont have room for Beas. We can repalce him with a shooter with vet min deal. Wonder what to do Rui tho. I mean only get 50 games from Lbj/Ad sadly so we need every kind of depth at forward positions. |
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nomoreshaq
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Yes Buddy Hield is better than Malik Beasley.
Next season Malik Beasley will get 16.5 Million if the Lakers pick up that option.
Next season Buddy Hield will get 18.5 Million right before he hits Unrestricted Free Agency.
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. |
Lol at trading a lottery pick for a slightly more consistent version of Beasley while we already have Reaves, Christie and DLO.
That would be pure incompetence. There is much bigger holes to fill than a chucking, small and no defending guard. |
I actually see this happening TBH.
First, ain't no way we are using that pick for our team.
Second, our roster (i think) will likely be something like this:
Davis / Bamba
LBJ / Rui
Vandy / Christie
Reaves / [Hield]
D'lo / Schroder
Rest of the roster might be Gabriel, another veteran C, a veteran 2/3 wing and a 2nd rounder.
TBJ will likely be paid too much and should take it, he's young. Walker likely same path as TBJ as well. I think we really think Christie takes that leap.
Beasley? I wouldn't mind keeping him but he's still a worthwhile salary slot. I also think we do this and then maybe swap Hield later on. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:47 am Post subject: |
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Also, Pacers may have anywhere from 25-38m in cap space next summer. They're not exactly a bastion for top free agents. They may take deals from the Lakers that could be absorbed into that cap space.
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Yes Buddy Hield is better than Malik Beasley.
Next season Malik Beasley will get 16.5 Million if the Lakers pick up that option.
Next season Buddy Hield will get 18.5 Million right before he hits Unrestricted Free Agency.
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. |
Lol at trading a lottery pick for a slightly more consistent version of Beasley while we already have Reaves, Christie and DLO.
That would be pure incompetence. There is much bigger holes to fill than a chucking, small and no defending guard. |
Agree with Tron. I think the Lakers keep the pick and draft a poss replacement for Rui, if he wants more than $8 million a year. Beaz they can pick up his option and use him for a trade of some sort….but not package him with the pick. Beaz hasn’t impressed me at all and is certainly not worth $16 million a year. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| nomoreshaq wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Yes Buddy Hield is better than Malik Beasley.
Next season Malik Beasley will get 16.5 Million if the Lakers pick up that option.
Next season Buddy Hield will get 18.5 Million right before he hits Unrestricted Free Agency.
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. |
Lol at trading a lottery pick for a slightly more consistent version of Beasley while we already have Reaves, Christie and DLO.
That would be pure incompetence. There is much bigger holes to fill than a chucking, small and no defending guard. |
I actually see this happening TBH.
First, ain't no way we are using that pick for our team.
Second, our roster (i think) will likely be something like this:
Davis / Bamba
LBJ / Rui
Vandy / Christie
Reaves / [Hield]
D'lo / Schroder
Rest of the roster might be Gabriel, another veteran C, a veteran 2/3 wing and a 2nd rounder.
TBJ will likely be paid too much and should take it, he's young. Walker likely same path as TBJ as well. I think we really think Christie takes that leap.
Beasley? I wouldn't mind keeping him but he's still a worthwhile salary slot. I also think we do this and then maybe swap Hield later on. |
Exactly. Our pick is going to be either where we wind up or where the Pelicans wind up. It's not going to be a pick that we're intending on making a star in our first season. That + LeBron's timeline. They'd trade Malik + that 17-30 pick to Indiana for Hield (whom shoots 8 threes a game at 40% from the field) as quick as you could imagine.
| King Randle wrote: |
Agree with Tron. I think the Lakers keep the pick and draft a poss replacement for Rui, if he wants more than $8 million a year. Beaz they can pick up his option and use him for a trade of some sort….but not package him with the pick. Beaz hasn’t impressed me at all and is certainly not worth $16 million a year. |
Rui is an RFA.
They don't need to worry about replacing Rui as they have a qualifying offer for him as well as the right to match any offer made to him and I don't know whose paying more than 8-10M a year for Rui at this point in his career.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. If successful(along with re-signing D'Angelo) you'd walk into next season with a starting lineup looking like this
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There are so many moving parts regarding next season, that I wouldn't even guess what the Lakers will do.
The first big thing (which none of us know) is how much tax the Lakers will be willing to pay. That will shape everything else.
Then it will be matter of what all the free agents ask for or are able to get from other teams.
And the way players and the team do the rest of the season and in the playoffs (assuming we make it) may affect plans.
As far as Beasley, I can imagine any scenario: letting him walk; resigning him long term for a smaller amount; exercising his option and keeping him; exercising his option and then trading him. My guess is the Lakers haven't even decided what they are going to do yet.
Last edited by activeverb on Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis. |
The centerpiece of that deal was Vando. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
My guess is it won't be a black and white situation.
They will pay some tax, but they will set a limit on how much.
They will retain some guys, and let some walk.
I could be 100% wrong on any of this, of course. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | MJST wrote: |
Don't be surprised if the Lakers pick up Beasley's option and then try to immediately try to trade him + their pick to Indiana for Buddy Hield. If successful(along with re-signing D'Angelo) you'd walk into next season with a starting lineup looking like this
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There are so many moving parts regarding next season, that I wouldn't even guess what the Lakers will do.
The first big thing (which none of us know) is how much tax the Lakers will be willing to pay. That will shape everything else.
Then it will be matter of what all the free agents ask for or are able to get from other teams.
And the way players and the team do the rest of the season and in the playoffs (assuming we make it) may affect plans.
As far as Beasley, I can imagine any scenario: letting him walk; resigning him long term for a smaller amount; exercising his option and keeping him; exercising his option and then trading him. My guess is the Lakers haven't even decided what they are going to do yet. |
Players who finish the season strong will come to that negotiation table in a position of strength.
But Beasley is expendable because I’m pretty sure the Lakers are looking forward to play Reaves over 30 minutes. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis. |
The centerpiece of that deal was Vando. |
And it still remains a question if he is worth a future first round pick
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis. |
The centerpiece of that deal was Vando. |
That was a complex, three-team deal that netted us DLo, Beasley, and Vandy. I don't assume the Lakers made this deal with the notion that all three would be part of the future.
I imagine Vandy will stick around because of his low salary. But I wouldn't call him the "centerpiece" of the deal. DLo was the most important part of the trade for us.(Getting rid of Westbrook may have been the second most important part.)
I could easily see the Lakers letting Beasley walk. He hasn't played that well for us.
I suspect DLo will resign with us, but it wouldn't shock me to see him leave. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Here's the thing.
Talent wise Vando and Rui are basically mid 1st round picks that we are developing.
Rui was the 9th pick in 2019
Vando is a late 1st round steal
Malik is a top 20 pick
Rui and Vando are the "young draft picks" that the Lakers have which they are developing. Which is what makes the 1st expendle if it was to move Beasley for a player like Hield. Because Rui is basically the 'mid 1st round' talent, but was drafted top 10 that the Lakers have and is an RFA for us.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis. |
The centerpiece of that deal was Vando. |
And it still remains a question if he is worth a future first round pick |
Well at least for me , I say getting rid of Westbrook was worth it. Vando is 23 and we still have one year of him on a cheap . If this his floor, I’ll take that and rewind it back. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | CRoost wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | They at a minimum better retain the salaries for asset management.
Beyond stupid to trade FRP for guys you don’t keep or at the very least use in trades. |
Right. Remember how reticent the Lakers were to trade any future FRPs? So the thought advanced by one poster that they would let the centerpiece of the trade (DLO) and an important piece (Beas) just expire, and that we traded a precious FRP for 2 month rental is just not rational at all. Maybe DLO is back and Beas at 16.5m isn't, but I think with the latter, they explore ways to either trade him or bring him back on a much lower per year basis. |
The centerpiece of that deal was Vando. |
And it still remains a question if he is worth a future first round pick |
To me, the only fair way to evaluate a trade is whether it made sense at the time based on the conditions that existed at the time. So whether it looks "worth it" in the future is less important than whether it looks "worth it" today. Everyone is a genius in hindsight. I have no problem with the deal. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Here's the thing.
Talent wise Vando and Rui are basically mid 1st round picks that we are developing.
Rui was the 9th pick in 2019
Vando is a late 1st round steal
Malik is a top 20 pick
Rui and Vando are the "young draft picks" that the Lakers have which they are developing. |
I wouldn't agree with the way you are depicting this.
One thing that makes first round picks valuable is their contracts are cheap, and you have time to watch how they develop before investing a lot in them.
The clock on Rui has run out. He's been in the league four years and the Lakers have to decide whether to make a gamble on him. The fact that he is "basically mid 1st round pick that is developing" in his fourth year is actually a negative. By their fourth year, you want to have a firm grasp of what a player is before you give him a lot of money, as Rui will no doubt be looking for.
Vando's clock has one more year to run. And he'll be looking for a big payday too. That is one reason Utah was willing to move him for so cheap. If he was actually a young draft pick they would have held onto him.
Mailk is in his 7th year making $16 million. Where he was drafted is irrelevant now. He is a veteran journeyman.
Once a player has been in the league a couple of years, his value can be significantly more or significantly less than the value of his draft pick. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Here's the thing.
Talent wise Vando and Rui are basically mid 1st round picks that we are developing.
Rui was the 9th pick in 2019
Vando is a late 1st round steal
Malik is a top 20 pick
Rui and Vando are the "young draft picks" that the Lakers have which they are developing. |
I wouldn't agree with the way you are depicting this.
One thing that makes first round picks valuable is their contracts are cheap, and you have time to watch how they develop before investing a lot in them.
The clock on Rui has run out. He's been in the league four years and the Lakers have to decide whether to make a gamble on him. The fact that he is "basically mid 1st round pick that is developing" in his fourth year is actually a negative. By their fourth year, you want to have a firm grasp of what a player is before you give him a lot of money, as Rui will no doubt be looking for.
Vando's clock has one more year to run. And he'll be looking for a big payday too. That is one reason Utah was willing to move him for so cheap. If he was actually a young draft pick they would have held onto him.
Mailk is in his 7th year making $16 million. Where he was drafted is irrelevant now. He is a veteran journeyman.
Once a player has been in the league a couple of years, his value can be significantly more or significantly less than the value of his draft pick. |
I think this applies most to Bamba. 6th player picked. 7’10 wingspan, can knock down a 3 and definitely can protect the rim. There’s no one like him in the draft compared to a ton of athletic 6’6 - 6’9 athletic wings. And again with AD more than likely having surgery in the off season…Bamba is more of a need and Pelinka finally got him after pursuing him for 2 years. |
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gng930
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| Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:05 am Post subject: |
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I think it's highly unlikely they opt in for Beas. And I don't think they'd do it for a marginal upgrade like Hield. Unless they stopped caring about money, Hield/Beasley's salaries represent significant opportunity cost in the form of players in whom have more stake. For some perspective, the team will be paying about $200 million this year after taxes. It was about the same last year. If they were again to draw that line in the sand, they can have a total payroll of about $175 million before taxes. Even a pinch above that starts putting them roughly in the ~4x tax range. So doing the math:
Players under contract: Bron + AD + Max = $90 mil
Players we are most likely to keep: Vando + DLO + AR = $40-45 mil
Players we are somewhat likely to keep: Rui = $10-15 mil
As crazy as it sounds, that leaves you with just $30 million to split between:
Draft picks
Mo
Beas
TBJ
Dennis
Wenyen
MLE
any additional vet mins/rookies to fill the roster
Beas opting in or trading for Hield will occupy more than half of that remaining allotment. Can you cannibalize that much of the remaining group for them?
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Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit) |
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