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tox
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 Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | tox wrote: | | jb2 wrote: |
In an ideal world, it looks something like that. Options to acquire those two other starters will be FA and trade. Trade wise, Claxton seems to be a good option (Rui, Kleber, 1st?) and maybe a guy like NAW with MLE?
Wonder what Hayes/LeBron/Rui/DFS/Luka looks like this season |
Also I think you nailed it. I had LeVert as my MLE target but I think I like NAW better. I want a guy who will be "carried" on offense a little bit because IMO with dudes like Luka you're best off letting Luka make marginal offensive players better.
Claxton for Rui/Kleber/Milton/1st would round out a really strong roster.
Luka/ NAW/ DFS/ LeBron/ Claxton
Vincent/ Reaves/ Knecht/ Vando/ Hayes
That's a very good 10-man rotationn. |
I can dig it. The only thing is, is Claxton still good? I feel like the last time he was good, Harden was on the Nets. |
I have no idea. The Lakers have Luka and LeBron and AR so I'm not worried about Claxton on offense. Defense, I don't see why he'd have fallen off at his age and I thought he looked good against the Lakers when we played the Nets but I can't really speak to anything beyond that |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Man. Max is gonna be extension eligible and extended by Dallas, isn't he?  there go my '27 dreams |
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zambia
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | tox wrote: | | jb2 wrote: |
In an ideal world, it looks something like that. Options to acquire those two other starters will be FA and trade. Trade wise, Claxton seems to be a good option (Rui, Kleber, 1st?) and maybe a guy like NAW with MLE?
Wonder what Hayes/LeBron/Rui/DFS/Luka looks like this season |
Also I think you nailed it. I had LeVert as my MLE target but I think I like NAW better. I want a guy who will be "carried" on offense a little bit because IMO with dudes like Luka you're best off letting Luka make marginal offensive players better.
Claxton for Rui/Kleber/Milton/1st would round out a really strong roster.
Luka/ NAW/ DFS/ LeBron/ Claxton
Vincent/ Reaves/ Knecht/ Vando/ Hayes
That's a very good 10-man rotationn. |
I can dig it. The only thing is, is Claxton still good? I feel like the last time he was good, Harden was on the Nets. |
Claxton weighs 215lbs, he’s too light. |
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King Randle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Got to report the good and the bad. Len was atrocious! I didn't say is because it was his first run but geez was he pathetic. No way in hell Bamba is worse than that. And BTW Koloko wasn't much better. Another experiment not worth investing in. My God Hayes is a damn all star compared to these two clowns. |
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LukaDoncic
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| zambia wrote: | | levon wrote: | | tox wrote: | | jb2 wrote: |
In an ideal world, it looks something like that. Options to acquire those two other starters will be FA and trade. Trade wise, Claxton seems to be a good option (Rui, Kleber, 1st?) and maybe a guy like NAW with MLE?
Wonder what Hayes/LeBron/Rui/DFS/Luka looks like this season |
Also I think you nailed it. I had LeVert as my MLE target but I think I like NAW better. I want a guy who will be "carried" on offense a little bit because IMO with dudes like Luka you're best off letting Luka make marginal offensive players better.
Claxton for Rui/Kleber/Milton/1st would round out a really strong roster.
Luka/ NAW/ DFS/ LeBron/ Claxton
Vincent/ Reaves/ Knecht/ Vando/ Hayes
That's a very good 10-man rotationn. |
I can dig it. The only thing is, is Claxton still good? I feel like the last time he was good, Harden was on the Nets. |
Claxton weighs 215lbs, he’s too light. |
As of late he has been great. 22 blocks in his last 7 games. He can also switch and guard the perimeter.
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textbook
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
The most information I could find was from this SI article:
| Quote: | | L.A. saw signs of long-term damage to his body. |
SI |
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JustaObserver
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
A center who has played 30 games over 3 years..lol. Give up literally 3 1st rounders one being the last real scoreing threat from the bench? Ohh wait we gotz bronnnny...smh.... |
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Outspoken
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
I'm good with Knecht, and Hayes. Maybe sign Trey Jemison, but i'm good with the team.
We could do some minor moves, but nothing major. |
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32
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | | Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
Rob made this move to appease Luka. It's not buyers remorse. There is no evidence or proof of this. This is the last thing the Lakers wanted.
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:26 am Post subject: |
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It’s kinda wild that everytime dude tries to go “all-in”, it doesn’t end well and then it’s not really his fault cause he was trying to appease his stars (Klutch with Westbrook trade & Luka with this trade).
Plus there are many types of players that could work with Luka’s playmaking….i still believe you focus on flanking legitimate defenders next to him (MarkWill wasn’t imho)…thats what it’s gonna take to have a Luka led team reach the promise land (ie Dallas had a 5th ranked Drtg in the postseason last year; Boston had the 3rd best Drtg)
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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joeblow
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | joeblow wrote: | | tox wrote: | | So people (bleep) talking Kessler, wya now? The Lakers are treating him lurking in the paint like he's prime AD |
I never said anything negative about Kessler, but the main question still remains... how much for him was too much?
If Ainge wanted some combination of both first rounders (obviously before getting Luka), AR15, Christie, Rui and Kinecht, were Kessler supporters on board with that? If the reason we said no was because Pelinka wanted to keep enough to get Luka (one FRP and Christie), is that acceptable over getting Kessler? |
I wasn't talking about you joeblow, I was talking about the fools who kept going "HAYES WENT 6-6 AGAINST KESSLER!!!!1 I'D GIVE ONE SRP FOR HIM" |
Oh, I know you weren't calling me out. I mentioned that I never said much about Kessler one way or the other so show my next few points were neutral questions.
To answer my questions though, yes, to me it would've been worth it to trade pretty much both picks and AR15, Dalton, etc., to get him from Ainge because I maintain that our Lakers' best chance for a ring this season was with AD as our front court defensive anchor with another skilled big alongside him to go against the larger opponents (like Jokic).
I'd hope we wouldn't have lost Christie's perimeter defense to Utah if they demanded him, so if not, this is a stellar starting lineup for the playoffs this season vs. Denver:
Kessler (Hayes, Koloko, Jemison)
AD (Dorian, Markieff)
Lebron (Rui)
Christie (Vandy)
Gabe (Goodwin, Shake)
It's not that I don't want Luka on the team, but for this season it would've been great to try one last time to replicate the 2020 defensive monster sized unit we had with Lebron and AD, and if it didn't work, then get Luka this summer for the future if that was possible.
As it stands, my faith in what we can defensively accomplish in the playoffs is not overly optimistic to win it all this season. Still, the future with Luka to build around going forward is bright. |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | It’s kinda wild that everytime dude tries to go “all-in”, it doesn’t end well and then it’s not really his fault cause he was trying to appease his stars (Klutch with Westbrook trade & Luka with this trade).
Plus there are many types of players that could work with Luka’s playmaking….i still believe you focus on flanking legitimate defenders next to him (MarkWill wasn’t imho)…thats what it’s gonna take to have a Luka led team reach the promise land (ie Dallas had a 5th ranked Drtg in the postseason last year; Boston had the 3rd best Drtg) |
Man, forget Rob. Which center should be targeted this summer? Def Adams but… would Turner fit under Bron’s discount?
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:51 am Post subject: |
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^Gov, Turner ain’t going for the 14mish MLE. I highly doubt that happens, but we can use a favorable trade multiplier and get hardcapped at the 1st Apron. I’m thinking Rui/Knecht/draft incentive (break that ‘31 or ‘32 pick to multiple lesser picks) is a good place to start. I’ve always wanted Myles next to AD. I still think dude would flourish with Luka, but more importantly, he’s a much better rim protector than MarkWill potentially could have been.
Btw, just like Luka, Rui is a ln international draw to the brand….so if/when we give him up, it’s gonna be for a homerun type deal. Centers are gonna be a premium now with the way Jokers been playing & now Dallas with AD/Live, OKC with Hart/Chet, Griz with Edey and SA with Wemby. I don’t think Hayes can really hang with that group, so this summer has to have us being in a longterm big cause that’s kinda what we’ve been known for (West/Wilt, Erv/Kap, Kob/Shaq). Go get Luka his, but he’s gotta be a legit 2way C (imho MarkWill wasn’t).
The market did just see us give up our 2024 17th overall pick & our ‘31 unprotected along with a FRP swap, so we’re gonna be expected to start with a premium again in hunting down a deal this summer. I do think Bron will give up 10-14m in a haircut to help bring in talent while we navigate the apron hardcaps.
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textbook
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | textbook wrote: | | Starting to think…if it was just buyers remorse and meds not as bad as we think, would not be the worst idea to let this trade go through? Need a center badly. |
I'm good with Knecht, and Hayes. Maybe sign Trey Jemison, but i'm good with the team.
We could do some minor moves, but nothing major. |
Yeah, just hoping utah did not expose our obvious weakness and now every team will kill us in the paint. If we are not swarming on defense, we will get abused. Bron and Luka are going to kill us in transition. We need to switch up starters, at least DFS for Rui. |
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Halflife
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Gov, Turner ain’t going for the 14mish MLE. I highly doubt that happens, but we can use a favorable trade multiplier and get hardcapped at the 1st Apron. I’m thinking Rui/Knecht/draft incentive (break that ‘31 or ‘32 pick to multiple lesser picks) is a good place to start. I’ve always wanted Myles next to AD. I still think dude would flourish with Luka, but more importantly, he’s a much better rim protector than MarkWill potentially could have been.
Btw, just like Luka, Rui is a ln international draw to the brand….so if/when we give him up, it’s gonna be for a homerun type deal. Centers are gonna be a premium now with the way Jokers been playing & now Dallas with AD/Live, OKC with Hart/Chet, Griz with Edey and SA with Wemby. I don’t think Hayes can really hang with that group, so this summer has to have us being in a longterm big cause that’s kinda what we’ve been known for (West/Wilt, Erv/Kap, Kob/Shaq). Go get Luka his, but he’s gotta be a legit 2way C (imho MarkWill wasn’t).
The market did just see us give up our 2024 17th overall pick & our ‘31 unprotected along with a FRP swap, so we’re gonna be expected to start with a premium again in hunting down a deal this summer. I do think Bron will give up 10-14m in a haircut to help bring in talent while we navigate the apron hardcaps. |
Myles be perfect with this team and he can cover Rui role (stretch big) too. U talking sign and trade him? Hardcappwd at 1st apron? Cause we still gotta pay Hayes and DFS
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | ^Gov, Turner ain’t going for the 14mish MLE. I highly doubt that happens, but we can use a favorable trade multiplier and get hardcapped at the 1st Apron. I’m thinking Rui/Knecht/draft incentive (break that ‘31 or ‘32 pick to multiple lesser picks) is a good place to start. I’ve always wanted Myles next to AD. I still think dude would flourish with Luka, but more importantly, he’s a much better rim protector than MarkWill potentially could have been.
Btw, just like Luka, Rui is a ln international draw to the brand….so if/when we give him up, it’s gonna be for a homerun type deal. Centers are gonna be a premium now with the way Jokers been playing & now Dallas with AD/Live, OKC with Hart/Chet, Griz with Edey and SA with Wemby. I don’t think Hayes can really hang with that group, so this summer has to have us being in a longterm big cause that’s kinda what we’ve been known for (West/Wilt, Erv/Kap, Kob/Shaq). Go get Luka his, but he’s gotta be a legit 2way C (imho MarkWill wasn’t).
The market did just see us give up our 2024 17th overall pick & our ‘31 unprotected along with a FRP swap, so we’re gonna be expected to start with a premium again in hunting down a deal this summer. I do think Bron will give up 10-14m in a haircut to help bring in talent while we navigate the apron hardcaps. |
Myles be perfect with this team and he can cover Rui role (stretch big) too. U talking sign and trade him? Hardcappwd at 1st apron? Cause we still gotta pay Hayes and DFS |
Yeah I just don't see us only carrying the salary that caps you at the 1st apron. For that reason, I don't see Turner as a realistic option, whether that's in a sign-and-trade or for the MLE. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I posted this in the cap Q&A thread, so think of it as Myles 25m+ salary (which is my guess at what his ask would be) replacing Rui and Knecht’s contracts. We then adjust Bron & DFS’s new deals accordingly to fit under the hardcap with any additional vet min signings and a can tweak accordingly using Shake’s nonguaranteed deal along with stretching Maxi’s contract in a worst case scenario if we can’t get off his deal in a trade to gain more wiggle/cap from the 1st Apron.
| Quote: | Projected ‘25 Offseason Roster
1. Bron 52.63m (could be up to 54.12m if player opt out & max re-up)
2. Luka 46m
3. Rui 18.26m
4. DFS 15.38m (player opt in)
5. ntpMLE 14.1m (placeholder)
6. Reaves 13.94m
7. Vando 11.57m
8. Gabe 11.5m
9. Maxi 11m
10. Knecht 4.01m
11. Shake 3m (nonguaranteed; fully guaranteed July 20th)
12. Bronny 1.96m
13. ‘25 2nd rounder 1.28m (via SRE)
14. Vet min 2.3m
= 195.13m in team salary if ntpMLE is replaced with another vet min exception; so we would have a projected 810k in wiggle from the 195.94m 1st Apron hardcap; that hardcap would be triggered with use of an incoming S&t’d player (ie Myles) and/or the use of the ntpMLE.
So if Shake is waived and either re-upped at the vet min or replaced by another vet min & DFS opts into his player option, then at the most Bron can opt out & re-up at 40.07m (which is about a 12m haircut) if we wanted to use the entire ntpMLE and literally lean on that 1st Apron hardcap, which would be triggered with its use.
Here’s a list of potential FAs for this summer via Spotrac
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025
Names that stand out as potential ntpMLE candidates
B.Simmons
BroLo
Capela
Brogdon
Bruce Brown Jr
Bojan
Schro
Adams
Portis
Bagley |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Vas, u gonna have to put Myles number in there, I don’t get it
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| By the time we get Myles Turner he will be Alex Len. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | I posted this in the cap Q&A thread, so think of it as Myles 25m+ salary (which is my guess at what his ask would be) replacing Rui and Knecht’s contracts. We then adjust Bron & DFS’s new deals accordingly to fit under the hardcap with any additional vet min signings and a can tweak accordingly using Shake’s nonguaranteed deal along with stretching Maxi’s contract in a worst case scenario if we can’t get off his deal in a trade to gain more wiggle/cap from the 1st Apron.
| Quote: | Projected ‘25 Offseason Roster
1. Bron 52.63m (could be up to 54.12m if player opt out & max re-up)
2. Luka 46m
3. Rui 18.26m
4. DFS 15.38m (player opt in)
5. ntpMLE 14.1m (placeholder)
6. Reaves 13.94m
7. Vando 11.57m
8. Gabe 11.5m
9. Maxi 11m
10. Knecht 4.01m
11. Shake 3m (nonguaranteed; fully guaranteed July 20th)
12. Bronny 1.96m
13. ‘25 2nd rounder 1.28m (via SRE)
14. Vet min 2.3m
= 195.13m in team salary if ntpMLE is replaced with another vet min exception; so we would have a projected 810k in wiggle from the 195.94m 1st Apron hardcap; that hardcap would be triggered with use of an incoming S&t’d player (ie Myles) and/or the use of the ntpMLE.
So if Shake is waived and either re-upped at the vet min or replaced by another vet min & DFS opts into his player option, then at the most Bron can opt out & re-up at 40.07m (which is about a 12m haircut) if we wanted to use the entire ntpMLE and literally lean on that 1st Apron hardcap, which would be triggered with its use.
Here’s a list of potential FAs for this summer via Spotrac
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/_/year/2025
Names that stand out as potential ntpMLE candidates
B.Simmons
BroLo
Capela
Brogdon
Bruce Brown Jr
Bojan
Schro
Adams
Portis
Bagley |
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We have enough playmakers and shotmakers so pass on Schro and Brogdon.
I’ll take Bruce Brown for that ntpMLE. We need a bigger POA Defender. Only 28 and a winning type of player.
We can probably get an average center for vet minimum akin to Tyus Jones if we can give him that starting role . Capela, Adams Brolo etc. Simmons would be nice too. He can guard 1 to 5. But I would prefer sign and trade for Turner . We have enough contracts and fillers for matching and sweeteners (31 FRP that can be protected and Knecth) . |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Projected ‘25 Offseason Roster
1. Bron 52.63m (could be up to 54.12m if player opt out & max re-up)
2. Luka 46m
3. Myles 25m (via hypothetical Rui + Knecht + picks S&T)
4. DFS 15.38m (player opt in)
5. ntpMLE 14.1m (placeholder)
6. Reaves 13.94m
7. Vando 11.57m
8. Gabe 11.5m
9. Maxi 11m
10. Shake 3m (nonguaranteed; fully guaranteed July 20th)
11. Bronny 1.96m
12. ‘25 2nd rounder 1.28m (via SRE)
13. Vet min 2.3m
14. Vet min 2.3m
= 211.96m which is about 16m over the projected ~196m 1st Apron hardcap. That means between Bron & DFS, they would have to shed that amount of salary off their new deals after opting out their player options and re-upping. Another way is not using the ntpMLE at all and having Shake replaced by a vet min (saving 700k), while offloading Maxi, Gabe, or Vando for slightly cheaper annuals.
But I imagine the key lies with Bron/DFS signing for more longterm money but at a lesser annual. Also if Myles can trim from his annual, then that’s all the more better to salary match for in a trade and having enough wiggle once the 1st Apron hardcap triggers.
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | So people (bleep) talking Kessler, wya now? The Lakers are treating him lurking in the paint like he's prime AD |
Kessler was really good in the first half and then he kind of disappeared in the second.
The team was shooting 37%. Reaves was shooting 1 for 10 from three.
Hayes is injured. Len was complete and utter dogsh*t
Bron seemed tired. Luka is still out of shape. Vando had his second bad game in a row when Gabe and DFS are both out.
We shot 50% from free throw line.
And you want to attribute this to Kessler's dominance?
They have three usable centers and we had Len and Koloko.
Koloko is listed at 7 feet but he looks like the shortest 7 footer I've seen and he plays soft. He looks like he avoids contact. He shoots free throws well and that's about it.
So yes, Kessler was impressive for a half but all I said is I didn't want to give up Knecht and two picks for him or Reaves and one pick which was the price.
Knecht did hit some threes for a change. He did get hunted by Collier so that sucked but the kid is still a work in progress.
The problem was just a complete team collapse and even Kessler couldn't have saved us from ourselves last night.
I said Bamba or LNJ and someone somewhere in the organization thought Len was the best option. |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Posts: 6056
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| Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2025 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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I’m not surprised at the position the Lakers are in regarding the roster constructed without a legitimate starting center and no legitimate back up center to back up the center that isn’t really a starter either. What surprised me…actually shocked me…was the apparent ability of Rob to contruct a legitimate roster with the additions of Luka/DFS/Williams. The situation now actually looks more like what Rob is capable of than what it looked like before the trade was rescinded.
I know plenty of excuses can be made at this time but the job is to build a roster and Rob has consistently left major holes in the build, same as it is now. So any excuse…tho perhaps legitimate as a single isolated incident…is invalid since it’s how Rob has operated since day 1.
Kleber should have been flipped, perhaps with a 2ndRP for Valenciunas to be the back up C. Another C was an obvious need to avoid the seemingly inevitable situation that was a major contributor in the loss to Utah. Len should have been avoided with Jemison/Koloko on the GLeague roster signed to 2-way contracts since they could be evaluated until the end of the season then converted based on merit. Avoiding Len would have allowed that addition of one of Jemison/Koloko…who appear more qualified…and also allowed for the addition of Goodwin. Even if neither panned out it would have allowed a spot to be available for other buyout surprises. As it is now, the Lakers are stuck with Len and only able to add 1 more player instead of two. So the mistake means it Len and Goodwin, or another buyout C and no Goodwin.
Again, not surprised, more of what is expected. Like LBJ/AD/Luka, the good moves falls into Rob’s lap then he follows it up by continually showing ineptitude.
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When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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