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King Randle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 8031
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 Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Koloko 5 blocks yesterday is more than anything Len has shown since we picked him up.
I don’t know one good reason why Len wasn’t waived. Jj clearly prefers Koloko/Jemison over him. |
Totally agree. It's like a poster mentioned. The guaranteed money Len has coming. The FO prefers to save that $ and not offer a contract to Koloko. Theyll go Hayes, DFS, Rui, Vando and Bron as their bigs. |
Bad take. Had the Lakers waived Len on Saturday and signed Koloko, it would've cost them the princely sum of fifteen thousand dollars. |
$15,000 isn't much you're right but also the fact that Len was on the way to Indiana and when the Williams deal was rescinded Rob ran to Len and begged him to sign here. Rob wasn't going to waive Len after that. And truth be told the Lakers don't believe Koloko or Jemison would be used in the playoffs. They both have been less than impressive. That's just a fact. |
Sign Morris as a consultant or assistant coach to keep him around if necessary, but waive him, or Len, or maybe even Shake…one of them….but don’t go to the playoffs with just Hayes as the only playable C listed on the roster. Just don’t do it…not just relying on Len, nor on the hope of Kleber or the possibility of Kief…sign Koloko or Jemison or Moses or anybody just in case for the price. That is if committed competently to a ship. If not…well…just roll the dice with just Hayes being always available and/or small ball, it may work and if it doesn’t then well so what huh?!?!
I am concerned we’ll see the same type of lack of commitment/competence by the FO going forward with Luka on the roster since it seems to be a theme with Rob. I just have to hope the players/coaches over come the apparent lack of commitment/competency or that it changes. |
Agree with a lot of your takes. I do think Rob will get the necessary pieces to make Luka's time here successful. He did try with Williams although that's not the guy I would've targeted. And he placed a call regarding Duren. Duren I like. But for certain Rob screwed up by not taking a shot with Moses Brown, Kai Jones or Bamba after the Williams debacle. |
Bamba sucks. He didn’t take being here serious and didn’t produce. He signed with the Sixers who have an often injured center and didn’t play well or take it serious. He went to the clippers who didn’t want him. He’s bounced around. He’s not productive. Hell he produced 2.5 points for the Pelicans and wasn’t productive there either
Nothing or no one you’re naming is more productive than Hayes, Bron, Rui, DFS, and Vando at center
In fact them at center has worked over Sengun, Towns, AD, Joker, and others |
We'll agree to disagree. A lot of people here thought Hayes was worthless. Put him with Luka and you have our version of Lively and now the same people are saying Hayes should get $5-8 million a year. I think Bamba would've been productive with Luka as would have Kai Jones. Probably not as productive as Hayes but better than Koloko or Jemison. But none of this happened and we're stuck with sorry azz Len....and small ball. I'm hoping this all works out and this doesn't come back and bite us. |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 18344
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mo Bamba is literally unplayable. He barely plays as is, Has a -75 for the season playing for mostly a pretty decent Clipper squad, compared with +80 for Hayes, and he has chronic knee issues at 26. IIRC he has problems with unexplained fluid build up in his knees. |
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 8031
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | Mo Bamba is literally unplayable. He barely plays as is, Has a -75 for the season playing for mostly a pretty decent Clipper squad, compared with +80 for Hayes, and he has chronic knee issues at 26. IIRC he has problems with unexplained fluid build up in his knees. |
I didn't know about his knees. Kai Jones or Moses Brown then. Similar players. |
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 6011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Koloko 5 blocks yesterday is more than anything Len has shown since we picked him up.
I don’t know one good reason why Len wasn’t waived. Jj clearly prefers Koloko/Jemison over him. |
Totally agree. It's like a poster mentioned. The guaranteed money Len has coming. The FO prefers to save that $ and not offer a contract to Koloko. Theyll go Hayes, DFS, Rui, Vando and Bron as their bigs. |
Bad take. Had the Lakers waived Len on Saturday and signed Koloko, it would've cost them the princely sum of fifteen thousand dollars. |
$15,000 isn't much you're right but also the fact that Len was on the way to Indiana and when the Williams deal was rescinded Rob ran to Len and begged him to sign here. Rob wasn't going to waive Len after that. And truth be told the Lakers don't believe Koloko or Jemison would be used in the playoffs. They both have been less than impressive. That's just a fact. |
Sign Morris as a consultant or assistant coach to keep him around if necessary, but waive him, or Len, or maybe even Shake…one of them….but don’t go to the playoffs with just Hayes as the only playable C listed on the roster. Just don’t do it…not just relying on Len, nor on the hope of Kleber or the possibility of Kief…sign Koloko or Jemison or Moses or anybody just in case for the price. That is if committed competently to a ship. If not…well…just roll the dice with just Hayes being always available and/or small ball, it may work and if it doesn’t then well so what huh?!?!
I am concerned we’ll see the same type of lack of commitment/competence by the FO going forward with Luka on the roster since it seems to be a theme with Rob. I just have to hope the players/coaches over come the apparent lack of commitment/competency or that it changes. |
Agree with a lot of your takes. I do think Rob will get the necessary pieces to make Luka's time here successful. He did try with Williams although that's not the guy I would've targeted. And he placed a call regarding Duren. Duren I like. But for certain Rob screwed up by not taking a shot with Moses Brown, Kai Jones or Bamba after the Williams debacle. |
Bamba sucks. He didn’t take being here serious and didn’t produce. He signed with the Sixers who have an often injured center and didn’t play well or take it serious. He went to the clippers who didn’t want him. He’s bounced around. He’s not productive. Hell he produced 2.5 points for the Pelicans and wasn’t productive there either
Nothing or no one you’re naming is more productive than Hayes, Bron, Rui, DFS, and Vando at center
In fact them at center has worked over Sengun, Towns, AD, Joker, and others |
We'll agree to disagree. A lot of people here thought Hayes was worthless. Put him with Luka and you have our version of Lively and now the same people are saying Hayes should get $5-8 million a year. I think Bamba would've been productive with Luka as would have Kai Jones. Probably not as productive as Hayes but better than Koloko or Jemison. But none of this happened and we're stuck with sorry azz Len....and small ball. I'm hoping this all works out and this doesn't come back and bite us. |
Hayes was never useless. Last year without Luka
Feb - 15 Mpg, 6 ppg, 4rpg, 1 stl, on 71/67 splits for 12 games
Mar - 15mpg, 6ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk, on 75/68 splits for 13 games
Apr - 16mpg, 7ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk and 1 stl on 80/60 splits for 7 games
That’s 32 games where he was in the regular rotation for pockets playing behind AD last year after the nba cup. He produced then and got benched and not played in the playoffs. But the guy produced and the numbers were consistent. JJ is just giving him the same minutes and starting him like Javale to do it but Hayes produced always when given 15 mins
Also JJ hasn’t been beat by a big team. Small yes, but not close by a big one. |
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King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 8031
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Koloko 5 blocks yesterday is more than anything Len has shown since we picked him up.
I don’t know one good reason why Len wasn’t waived. Jj clearly prefers Koloko/Jemison over him. |
Totally agree. It's like a poster mentioned. The guaranteed money Len has coming. The FO prefers to save that $ and not offer a contract to Koloko. Theyll go Hayes, DFS, Rui, Vando and Bron as their bigs. |
Bad take. Had the Lakers waived Len on Saturday and signed Koloko, it would've cost them the princely sum of fifteen thousand dollars. |
$15,000 isn't much you're right but also the fact that Len was on the way to Indiana and when the Williams deal was rescinded Rob ran to Len and begged him to sign here. Rob wasn't going to waive Len after that. And truth be told the Lakers don't believe Koloko or Jemison would be used in the playoffs. They both have been less than impressive. That's just a fact. |
Sign Morris as a consultant or assistant coach to keep him around if necessary, but waive him, or Len, or maybe even Shake…one of them….but don’t go to the playoffs with just Hayes as the only playable C listed on the roster. Just don’t do it…not just relying on Len, nor on the hope of Kleber or the possibility of Kief…sign Koloko or Jemison or Moses or anybody just in case for the price. That is if committed competently to a ship. If not…well…just roll the dice with just Hayes being always available and/or small ball, it may work and if it doesn’t then well so what huh?!?!
I am concerned we’ll see the same type of lack of commitment/competence by the FO going forward with Luka on the roster since it seems to be a theme with Rob. I just have to hope the players/coaches over come the apparent lack of commitment/competency or that it changes. |
Agree with a lot of your takes. I do think Rob will get the necessary pieces to make Luka's time here successful. He did try with Williams although that's not the guy I would've targeted. And he placed a call regarding Duren. Duren I like. But for certain Rob screwed up by not taking a shot with Moses Brown, Kai Jones or Bamba after the Williams debacle. |
Bamba sucks. He didn’t take being here serious and didn’t produce. He signed with the Sixers who have an often injured center and didn’t play well or take it serious. He went to the clippers who didn’t want him. He’s bounced around. He’s not productive. Hell he produced 2.5 points for the Pelicans and wasn’t productive there either
Nothing or no one you’re naming is more productive than Hayes, Bron, Rui, DFS, and Vando at center
In fact them at center has worked over Sengun, Towns, AD, Joker, and others |
We'll agree to disagree. A lot of people here thought Hayes was worthless. Put him with Luka and you have our version of Lively and now the same people are saying Hayes should get $5-8 million a year. I think Bamba would've been productive with Luka as would have Kai Jones. Probably not as productive as Hayes but better than Koloko or Jemison. But none of this happened and we're stuck with sorry azz Len....and small ball. I'm hoping this all works out and this doesn't come back and bite us. |
Hayes was never useless. Last year without Luka
Feb - 15 Mpg, 6 ppg, 4rpg, 1 stl, on 71/67 splits for 12 games
Mar - 15mpg, 6ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk, on 75/68 splits for 13 games
Apr - 16mpg, 7ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk and 1 stl on 80/60 splits for 7 games
That’s 32 games where he was in the regular rotation for pockets playing behind AD last year after the nba cup. He produced then and got benched and not played in the playoffs. But the guy produced and the numbers were consistent. JJ is just giving him the same minutes and starting him like Javale to do it but Hayes produced always when given 15 mins |
I never thought he was worthless. A lot of people here did...in fact some suggested Koloko was better. LMAO! My point is it's all about fit. IMO Jones or Brown would've fit with Luka. That's it. I'm not going back and forth. If you or anyone have a different opinion great. Move on. Nothing happened anyways and we're stuck with Len and nothing else as far as bigs go in the playoffs. |
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 6011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| King Randle wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Kblo247! wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Koloko 5 blocks yesterday is more than anything Len has shown since we picked him up.
I don’t know one good reason why Len wasn’t waived. Jj clearly prefers Koloko/Jemison over him. |
Totally agree. It's like a poster mentioned. The guaranteed money Len has coming. The FO prefers to save that $ and not offer a contract to Koloko. Theyll go Hayes, DFS, Rui, Vando and Bron as their bigs. |
Bad take. Had the Lakers waived Len on Saturday and signed Koloko, it would've cost them the princely sum of fifteen thousand dollars. |
$15,000 isn't much you're right but also the fact that Len was on the way to Indiana and when the Williams deal was rescinded Rob ran to Len and begged him to sign here. Rob wasn't going to waive Len after that. And truth be told the Lakers don't believe Koloko or Jemison would be used in the playoffs. They both have been less than impressive. That's just a fact. |
Sign Morris as a consultant or assistant coach to keep him around if necessary, but waive him, or Len, or maybe even Shake…one of them….but don’t go to the playoffs with just Hayes as the only playable C listed on the roster. Just don’t do it…not just relying on Len, nor on the hope of Kleber or the possibility of Kief…sign Koloko or Jemison or Moses or anybody just in case for the price. That is if committed competently to a ship. If not…well…just roll the dice with just Hayes being always available and/or small ball, it may work and if it doesn’t then well so what huh?!?!
I am concerned we’ll see the same type of lack of commitment/competence by the FO going forward with Luka on the roster since it seems to be a theme with Rob. I just have to hope the players/coaches over come the apparent lack of commitment/competency or that it changes. |
Agree with a lot of your takes. I do think Rob will get the necessary pieces to make Luka's time here successful. He did try with Williams although that's not the guy I would've targeted. And he placed a call regarding Duren. Duren I like. But for certain Rob screwed up by not taking a shot with Moses Brown, Kai Jones or Bamba after the Williams debacle. |
Bamba sucks. He didn’t take being here serious and didn’t produce. He signed with the Sixers who have an often injured center and didn’t play well or take it serious. He went to the clippers who didn’t want him. He’s bounced around. He’s not productive. Hell he produced 2.5 points for the Pelicans and wasn’t productive there either
Nothing or no one you’re naming is more productive than Hayes, Bron, Rui, DFS, and Vando at center
In fact them at center has worked over Sengun, Towns, AD, Joker, and others |
We'll agree to disagree. A lot of people here thought Hayes was worthless. Put him with Luka and you have our version of Lively and now the same people are saying Hayes should get $5-8 million a year. I think Bamba would've been productive with Luka as would have Kai Jones. Probably not as productive as Hayes but better than Koloko or Jemison. But none of this happened and we're stuck with sorry azz Len....and small ball. I'm hoping this all works out and this doesn't come back and bite us. |
Hayes was never useless. Last year without Luka
Feb - 15 Mpg, 6 ppg, 4rpg, 1 stl, on 71/67 splits for 12 games
Mar - 15mpg, 6ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk, on 75/68 splits for 13 games
Apr - 16mpg, 7ppg, 5rpg, 1 blk and 1 stl on 80/60 splits for 7 games
That’s 32 games where he was in the regular rotation for pockets playing behind AD last year after the nba cup. He produced then and got benched and not played in the playoffs. But the guy produced and the numbers were consistent. JJ is just giving him the same minutes and starting him like Javale to do it but Hayes produced always when given 15 mins |
I never thought he was worthless. A lot of people here did...in fact some suggested Koloko was better. LMAO! My point is it's all about fit. IMO Jones or Brown would've fit with Luka. That's it. I'm not going back and forth. If you or anyone have a different opinion great. Move on. Nothing happened anyways and we're stuck with Len and nothing else as far as bigs go in the playoffs. |
I wish we never signed Len either but since we did it, I just think it’s horrible business to cut him when he can’t be playoff eligible |
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gng930
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 12267
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | King Randle wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Koloko 5 blocks yesterday is more than anything Len has shown since we picked him up.
I don’t know one good reason why Len wasn’t waived. Jj clearly prefers Koloko/Jemison over him. |
Totally agree. It's like a poster mentioned. The guaranteed money Len has coming. The FO prefers to save that $ and not offer a contract to Koloko. Theyll go Hayes, DFS, Rui, Vando and Bron as their bigs. |
I doubt the extra money to convert Koloko would have been a factor, it wasn't even 6 figures. JJ gave Koloko and Jemison more minutes but he had to give them to someone and you might as well give it to the guys who haven't gotten their big bag yet. Prefers might be a strong word. That's like asking me how I'd prefer to be executed. I'd rather just maintain the status quo.
Otherwise, in terms of the archetypes:
Rim-runner: Hayes
Versatile spacer: Kleber
Stout and physical: Kief
Taller bulk: ???
They almost literally just needed a stiff and Len was the closest thing. |
I think it’s realistically simple explanation wise
Koloko and Jemison are on two ways and will be on the team next season as two ways entering free agency. The lakers can covert them in the offseason or during the regular season.
Len is a vet and a placeholder. In the playoffs he’s 6 fouls and he’s 6 fouls that the refs will allow to give 6 fouls compared to two way guys. But realistically, Markieff will be used before him. JJ has dusted Markieff off in the pacers, nuggets, and blazer game for that reason. He will be used if a spot is needed. Kleiber will also be used if they get to a third round for if a spot is needed. So essentially the Lakers were choosing to rely on Markieff and Kleiber in a spot over Jemison and Koloko knowing they can retain those two this summer around the margins cap wise
The lakers haven’t given out their third two way either, they waited to the end to convert Goodwin. |
Nice to hear some fresh takes. A lot of rehashing here which I'm as guilty of as much as anyone.
If you subscribe to the idea that ultimately they thought none of these guys would be playable then this makes sense as much as anything else. I also agree 6 fouls from a vet will go a longer way.
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 12267
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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I also will say I'll just agree to disagree regarding the politics factor. They didn't care about waiving Cam until well after the playoff eligibility deadline even though it was becoming obvious that Goodwin was going to take his spot. If they felt Koloko/Jemison would have given us more than Len then IMO they would have made the cut. JJ gave both guys a fair shot but obviously came away unimpressed. If coach feels that way then why would FO deal with the politics? Juice just was not worth that squeeze IMO.
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Kblo247!
Star Player
Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 6011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2025 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | I also will say I'll just agree to disagree regarding the politics factor. They didn't care about waiving Cam until well after the playoff eligibility deadline even though it was becoming obvious that Goodwin was going to take his spot. If they felt Koloko/Jemison would have given us more than Len then IMO they would have made the cut. JJ gave both guys a fair shot but obviously came away unimpressed. If coach feels that way then why would FO deal with the politics? Juice just was not worth that squeeze IMO. |
Can wasn’t even set to play. The Laker gave Cam personal time before the trade. And it was arranged that Cam didn’t even have to travel to Charlotte when traded or report. He was always just sitting out. He was completely disengaged |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 3:21 am Post subject: |
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I think the issue is Rob didn't really get active in looking for a big UNTIL he traded AD. Once he knew for sure AD was out, and he had Luka, only then did he start to really get active.
Then the only really solid deal he seemed to like was for an oft injured big.
I'm sure if he could he would at least add a Lively/Gafford level big for Luka/Lebron. I just don't think they realised Mark Williams was a bad investment until it was too late to make another deal.
Hopefully it won't bite us in the butt. The team is real close to a title team. West is wide open. |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7934
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Did anyone notice how tight Steven Adams seems to be with many of the Lakers (especially Luka). I have a feeling he will be a Laker next season. The guy is still a decent rebounder (5.6 in 13.7 minutes) and has a little nasty in him. |
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roger_federer
Star Player
Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 3214
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| I am super confident Ron the genius will find a big in next decade. |
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markjay
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3980
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | Did anyone notice how tight Steven Adams seems to be with many of the Lakers (especially Luka). I have a feeling he will be a Laker next season. The guy is still a decent rebounder (5.6 in 13.7 minutes) and has a little nasty in him. |
Yeah I would much prefer bringing in Adams or Capela to trading away key pieces for a small Center upgrade. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 12267
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Kblo247! wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | I also will say I'll just agree to disagree regarding the politics factor. They didn't care about waiving Cam until well after the playoff eligibility deadline even though it was becoming obvious that Goodwin was going to take his spot. If they felt Koloko/Jemison would have given us more than Len then IMO they would have made the cut. JJ gave both guys a fair shot but obviously came away unimpressed. If coach feels that way then why would FO deal with the politics? Juice just was not worth that squeeze IMO. |
Can wasn’t even set to play. The Laker gave Cam personal time before the trade. And it was arranged that Cam didn’t even have to travel to Charlotte when traded or report. He was always just sitting out. He was completely disengaged |
Why not waive him sooner then?
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kikanga
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Posts: 31122
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
If Zion ever figures out how to stay healthy. I'd put him on the list.
Dyson Daniels is intriguing as well. If he ever gets his 3PT % up to high 30%s.
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Aphex Twin
Starting Rotation
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Posts: 932
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
Might consider Holmgren or Sengun. OKC and Houston have a lot of other assets they could include in a possible trade. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
Might be in the minority but not sure I'd do it for JJJ. He's a great defensive anchor and solid option on offense but not a #2 on a championship squad IMO. That's where you'd need AR to fill in the gap.
Oddly enough, my first thought was Mobley or Chet only to realize they currently average less PPG than JJJ. At the same time, I think JJJ is closer to offense ceiling than the other two. And tbh, I also never imagined Austin becoming the player that he is. So maybe ask me again a few months into the next season.
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 10398
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
If Zion ever figures out how to stay healthy. I'd put him on the list.
Dyson Daniels is intriguing as well. If he ever gets his 3PT % up to high 30%s. |
No to Zion. He’s not a winning player. He’s successful solely relying on his physical dominance. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 31122
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
If Zion ever figures out how to stay healthy. I'd put him on the list.
Dyson Daniels is intriguing as well. If he ever gets his 3PT % up to high 30%s. |
No to Zion. He’s not a winning player. He’s successful solely relying on his physical dominance. |
If he's healthy. He'll be starting for Team USA in 2028. Reaves might make the team as well. Off the bench.
You're turning up your nose at Zion. His health is the only reason it is even worth mentioning him in the same sentence as Reaves. If he was healthy he'd be comparable to Giannis moreso than Reaves.
BTW. I love Reaves. Him and Rui are probably my favorite players on the team.
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vasashi17+
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Posts: 6250
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:14 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | V, where are you? I know you have gone over this a million times and I apologize in advance. Can you run some scenarios to include a LeGramps pay cut, what we can possible give Jaxson, and the impact of both in signing a MLE (taxpayer vs non taxpayer). I would assume we are a taxpayer no matter what. Thanks bro!!!! |
I apologize bro for not answering this sooner. Been tied up of late, but planned to make myself available for the postseason so in playing catch-up, hopefully I can try to answer this for you now, my guy! Projected cap sheets for both the 1st & 2nd Apron hardcaps are below, fam
| Quote: | Projected ‘25 Offseason Roster using 1st Apron hardcap (ie using both the 1st Apron hardcap triggering ntpMLE & BAE)
1. Bron 28.83m (via player opt out of 52.63m, taking a 23.8m exfoliation, taking all his hair still draped up top + his trademarked old man beard + the carpet down low 😬)
2. Luka 46m
3. Rui 18.26m
4. DFS 15m (via player opt out of 15.38m, taking a 380k haircut, but making it back & then some on a longterm deal)
5. ntpMLE player 14.1m
6. Reavus 13.94m
7. Vando 11.57m
8. Gabe 11.5m
9. Maxi 11m
10. Hayes 8m (fyi as our early bird player, he can max out @ ~14.5m, meaning he took a ~6m haircut from his potential Luka lotto card)
11. BAE 5.12m
12. Knecht 4.01m
13. Shake 3m (nonguaranteed; fully guaranteed July 20th)
14. Goodwin 2.35m (via team option)
15. Bronny 1.96m
2-ways: #55 overall pick, Jemison & ???
= 194.64m in team salary with no wiggle under the 1st Apron hardcap; if we want to minimize Bron’s alopecia, we can elect to use just part of the ntpMLE & BAE or not use the BAE at all & replace it with a vet min cap hit of 2.3m to roster at least 14; another thing we can do is give less to DFS in his 1st year on a new deal knowing he can make it back on the back end if a lengthy new deal, cut the annual even more from Hayes potential early bird max, meaning his Doncic/Duff card wasn’t played up to the fullest and/or replace Shake’s nonguaranteed deal and/or Goodwin’s team option with a vet min exception player or the SRE used on our 2nd rounder and/or not rostering a full 15 by waiving Shake and/or Goodwin |
| Quote: | Projected ‘25 Offseason Roster using 2nd Apron hardcap (ie using 2nd Apron hardcap triggering tpMLE)
1. Bron 45.06m (reflective of a player opt out & a 7.57m haircut)
2. Luka 46m
3. Rui 18.26m
4. DFS 15.38m (opt in or starting annual on new deal reflective of no haircut)
5. Hayes 14.5m (via early bird max playing his Luka lotto card)
6. Reavus 13.94m
7. Vando 11.57m
8. Gabe 11.5m
9. Maxi 11m
10. tpMLE 5.69m
11. Knecht 4.01m
12. Shake 3m (nonguaranteed; fully guaranteed July 20th)
13. Bronny 1.96m
14. Goodwin 2.35m (via team option)
15. Vet min 2.3m
2-ways: #55 overall pick, Jemison & ???
= 206.52m in team salary with no wiggle under the 2nd Apron hardcap; this cap sheet reflects only a modest haircut by Bron, where he keeps the beard and Savannah keeps the carpet 😜; Bron could also bypass the haircut completely if we bypass the use of the tpMLE, while rostering only 14 via a Shake/Goodwin waive or get DFS/Hayes on a lower annual and/or replace Shake/Goodwin with the SRE used on our 2nd rounder instead. |
You can tweak away on those potential cap sheets my friend, using the 1st/2nd Apron hardcap triggers accordingly…
| Quote: | 1st Apron Triggers:
•Acquiring a S&t’d player
•Using ntpMLE
•Using BAE
•Aggregation of player(s) in trade using any trade multiplier towards salary matching (200% + 250k, 100% + 7.5m, 125% + 250k) where incoming salary is greater than what that team sent out
•Signing “buyout” player during the season that had a previous contract salary greater than the given ntpMLE value for that season (ie any would be free agent that was bought out from a >12.9m cap hit for the 2024/25 season)
•Using an existing non-expired TPE to trade for player(s) in a non-simultaneous trade
2nd Apron Triggers:
•Using tpMLE
•Aggregation of players in trade even without the use of a trade multiplier (ie using 100% multiplier where equal or less incoming salary is received compared to what was sent out, but with >1 outbound player involved); if 2 or more players are traded together where their salaries are combined to salary match for another, then that team is now hardcapped at the 2nd Apron for the remainder of the season
•Sending out a S&t’d player and/or trading for a player that was previously used as an outgoing S&t’d player
•Use of cash in a trade
•Use of a FRP 7 years out in a trade
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Last edited by vasashi17+ on Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr. Laker
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I think the issue is Rob didn't really get active in looking for a big UNTIL he traded AD. Once he knew for sure AD was out, and he had Luka, only then did he start to really get active.
Then the only really solid deal he seemed to like was for an oft injured big.
I'm sure if he could he would at least add a Lively/Gafford level big for Luka/Lebron. I just don't think they realised Mark Williams was a bad investment until it was too late to make another deal.
Hopefully it won't bite us in the butt. The team is real close to a title team. West is wide open. |
You're ignoring some key factors. Getting a C has been top of mind for a while.
1) reportedly, we had a deal in place in summer of 21 to acquire Myles Turner & Buddy Hield before we (inexplicably) pivoted to WB;
2) Lakers have grabbed almost every big man experiment they could since 2020 (DH, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Jay Huff, Wenyen Gabriel, Thomas Bryant, Mo Bamba, Trezz, Andre Drummond, Tristan Thompson, Colin Castleton, Armel Traore, Christian Koloko, Moses Brown, Trey Jemison and 3-4 other guys I don't remember);
3) Lakers reportedly made offers to Detroit, Brooklyn and one other team for bigs before Charlotte said "yes" for Mark Williams.
The realities are:
A) the other team has to accept what you're offering;
B) rim protecting bigs who can stay on the court are a precious commodity;
C) you wait to finish stealing Luka before you start spending assets on a C. If the reports are correct, DK and the '31 #1 were in the original Luka deal until Rob pulled them back as the price for not being able to talk to Team Luka beforehand. Rob literally didn't know what he would be able to offer until the Luka trade closed.
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 18343
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
If Zion ever figures out how to stay healthy. I'd put him on the list.
Dyson Daniels is intriguing as well. If he ever gets his 3PT % up to high 30%s. |
No to Zion. He’s not a winning player. He’s successful solely relying on his physical dominance. |
If he's healthy. He'll be starting for Team USA in 2028. Reaves might make the team as well. Off the bench.
You're turning up your nose at Zion. His health is the only reason it is even worth mentioning him in the same sentence as Reaves. If he was healthy he'd be comparable to Giannis moreso than Reaves.
BTW. I love Reaves. Him and Rui are probably my favorite players on the team. |
All Zion arguments stop right there. You have to assume Zion is not going to be healthy if you acquire him. It's not like you can say that his health is trending up - Zion has missed 278 of 472 games in his career (59%), including 52/82 (63%) this year!
AND . . . he's making $40 mil+/season. What GM with any sense risks his assets (or his ass) on that???
Maybe sign him for the MLE, otherwise, just say no.
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Inverse
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2014
Posts: 2371
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | name the ONLY player you'd include AR in a trade. i can only think of one: Jaren Jackson Jr. who else do you got? |
If Zion ever figures out how to stay healthy. I'd put him on the list.
Dyson Daniels is intriguing as well. If he ever gets his 3PT % up to high 30%s. |
I've been saying it for a while...the one person I would trade AR for and not even think about it is Amen Thompson. But doubt he'd ever be available
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gng930
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2025 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: |
You have to assume Zion is not going to be healthy if you acquire him. It's not like you can say that his health is trending up - Zion has missed 278 of 472 games in his career (59%), including 52/82 (63%) this year!
AND . . . he's making $40 mil+/season. What GM with any sense risks his assets (or his ass) on that???
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Agree. The only thing I have to add though is that a lot of that money is not guaranteed to Zion and contingent on weight and availability.
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