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leking006
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Joined: 12 Oct 2018
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 Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | I wanted the Lakers to extend him. I was hoping for a team friendly deal. I was thinking team friendly would be around 9M to 10M a year. He got 12M a year.
He is probably an MLE level player. Next year the MLE will start at around 13M and be around 4 years 56M for the full 4 years. So I think this deal is fine or decent.
He is 24 years old. So he still has room for some improvement. If he can hit the 3 at a better percentage then he becomes more valuable. He never really shot any 3's in games before this past season. He shot 0.1 threes a game before last season. He shot 1.2 threes a game on 32% shooting last season. So who knows how much he can improve there. He said his main goal this offseason was to become a better shooter.
I think he was a big reason for our defensive jump last season which got us into the playoffs. We had nobody to guard wings. He is very needed on our team. |
He shown glimpse that he can hit 3, just need more confidence hitting it, just like PJ Tucker. |
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computernerd
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Joined: 01 Sep 2018
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Whether Vando is worth $48 million for 4 years depends on whether you buy into the idea that he can become at least a league average 3 point shooter in the front half of this deal. With his defensive ability and versatility he’s a fabulous role player. Luka Doncic used to torch us whenever we played the Mavs, but the last time we played them we won because Vando held him in check. Having someone who can do this is just a tremendous luxury. Remember, we became the best defensive team in the league after the deadline and Vando was a big part of that. But if opposing defenses can just leave him alone and play 5 on 4, then it negates a lot of his value and he’s not worth that much. FWIW I believe he can do it. I’m looking for him to shoot at least 34% next season. If he can get to something like 38% in the following season, this deal could look like a bargain. That’s well within his reach. |
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computernerd
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Joined: 01 Sep 2018
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Regarding Max Christie, as someone already pointed out, he is not extension eligible, so he will be a free agent next summer. He is going to be hard to value because while I think he will make the regular rotation, he doesn’t figure to get a lot of minutes or shots. So his deal is going to come down to what the Lakers believe he will become and how the rest of the league values him. I could see a lottery team offering him a ntpMLE deal like what Reaves got. That’s the high end for him. I think the low end is about 3 years/$30 million with a player option in the final year, about what THT got. I hope he plays well enough that he gets something on the high end. |
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
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Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Congrats Vando! |
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Hector the Pup
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Joined: 25 Jul 2002
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Location: L.A.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | I wanted the Lakers to extend him. I was hoping for a team friendly deal. I was thinking team friendly would be around 9M to 10M a year. He got 12M a year.
He is probably an MLE level player. Next year the MLE will start at around 13M and be around 4 years 56M for the full 4 years. So I think this deal is fine or decent.
He is 24 years old. So he still has room for some improvement. If he can hit the 3 at a better percentage then he becomes more valuable. He never really shot any 3's in games before this past season. He shot 0.1 threes a game before last season. He shot 1.2 threes a game on 32% shooting last season. So who knows how much he can improve there. He said his main goal this offseason was to become a better shooter.
I think he was a big reason for our defensive jump last season which got us into the playoffs. We had nobody to guard wings. He is very needed on our team. |
If it helps, year one of the deal pays under 11. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6399
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | I love that they're signing guys long term and to great contracts. No more 12 guys on 1 year deals that show out and can leave in the off-season. |
I'm interested to see if the Lakers will move on to signing Max Christie to an extension NOW or wait to prove himself in the NBA with rotation minutes, but at the risk of paying him more if he completely balls out? |
Uh, it might have slipped your megamind, but MaxC is on a 2yr deal and as such ain’t extension eligible. Only the 3+ year contracts are.
https://gifdb.com/images/high/megamind-oops-reaction-1ij8hiu9isfpo57m.gif
As for why you gotta refer to fellow members here that don’t share your opinion as idiots is wild. It’s not like pjiddy stated anything that was remotely antisemitic 😜
Speaking of which, DLo & Rui aggregated make 33m. A certain “antisemitic” uncle makes 37m. Currently we about 5m away from the 1st Apron hardcap. Those 2 packaged up for unc post Jan 15th would work trade wise. And it leaves us roughly 1m from the hardcap. Sign a prorated vet min guy to the 14th spot at that time.
Our FO ain’t wanna pay a tax, but will when a “namer” is involved. Vando as a salary dump is out now, so maybe a salary bump is on the menu again.
Juss sayin…😬 |
As always, good point were stated
DLo (by himself) is also a trade chip
With many teams in a turmoil during the off-season, with the final drama being Harden and Dame, Rob has had an trouble-free off-season with no upheaval or tensions that have allowed our players to focus on what they should be doing - improving their game |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| computernerd wrote: | | Whether Vando is worth $48 million for 4 years depends on whether you buy into the idea that he can become at least a league average 3 point shooter in the front half of this deal. With his defensive ability and versatility he’s a fabulous role player. Luka Doncic used to torch us whenever we played the Mavs, but the last time we played them we won because Vando held him in check. Having someone who can do this is just a tremendous luxury. Remember, we became the best defensive team in the league after the deadline and Vando was a big part of that. But if opposing defenses can just leave him alone and play 5 on 4, then it negates a lot of his value and he’s not worth that much. FWIW I believe he can do it. I’m looking for him to shoot at least 34% next season. If he can get to something like 38% in the following season, this deal could look like a bargain. That’s well within his reach. |
I think that's fair. I would have preferred to wait and see whether Vanderbilt has actually upgraded his shooting before giving him an extension. If he can get to 34%, he would be a lot more playable. I'm pulling for him to do it, but I'll be skeptical until he shows progress in real games.
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | computernerd wrote: | | Whether Vando is worth $48 million for 4 years depends on whether you buy into the idea that he can become at least a league average 3 point shooter in the front half of this deal. With his defensive ability and versatility he’s a fabulous role player. Luka Doncic used to torch us whenever we played the Mavs, but the last time we played them we won because Vando held him in check. Having someone who can do this is just a tremendous luxury. Remember, we became the best defensive team in the league after the deadline and Vando was a big part of that. But if opposing defenses can just leave him alone and play 5 on 4, then it negates a lot of his value and he’s not worth that much. FWIW I believe he can do it. I’m looking for him to shoot at least 34% next season. If he can get to something like 38% in the following season, this deal could look like a bargain. That’s well within his reach. |
I think that's fair. I would have preferred to wait and see whether Vanderbilt has actually upgraded his shooting before giving him an extension. If he can get to 34%, he would be a lot more playable. I'm pulling for him to do it, but I'll be skeptical until he shows progress in real games. |
If you wait on his shot to improve then he's getting a contract closer to someone like Jerami Grant. In this case the risk of being conservative outweighs the risk of being aggressive as this is a fair contract based on his floor with room to improve.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I am not as concerned with his 3pt % as some seem to be. Simple solution. Don’t shoot them.
Vanderbilt is only taking 1.5 per game. No reason he should be taking more. It is not his strength in a game. Lakers have other concerns with the 3pt shooters attempting 6-10 a game with a similar average.
The young man provides too many other positives on the court. Lakers need the energy on defense. They need his activity rebounding. His contract is the new average for a solid role player. I think some of you are so used to only seeing vet min contracts filling out the roster it shocks you to see a young player getting a solid contract.
Hope he keeps working hard and grows as a player. Most importantly he remains a Laker role player instead of getting included into the next trade.
Value what he provides. Try not to focus on just one dimension of his game. |
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hydrohead
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Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 4207
Location: Space City
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Love this kid. Glad he'll be back. 12 mil? banking on a bit of growth, but he has shown signs. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 55988
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | I am not as concerned with his 3pt % as some seem to be. Simple solution. Don’t shoot them.
Vanderbilt is only taking 1.5 per game. No reason he should be taking more. It is not his strength in a game. Lakers have other concerns with the 3pt shooters attempting 6-10 a game with a similar average.
The young man provides too many other positives on the court. Lakers need the energy on defense. They need his activity rebounding. His contract is the new average for a solid role player. I think some of you are so used to only seeing vet min contracts filling out the roster it shocks you to see a young player getting a solid contract.
Hope he keeps working hard and grows as a player. Most importantly he remains a Laker role player instead of getting included into the next trade.
Value what he provides. Try not to focus on just one dimension of his game. |
Not shooting altogether is unwise and unnecessary. He shot 32% last year which isn’t good but isn’t so bad that he’s hopeless. That’s the same percentage Ariza shot in his first year with us. The seasons prior he shot worse and basically just didn’t take them. Ariza didn’t rise above the 35% mark until his 9th season. Vando doesn’t have to be a sniper he just has to be respectable.
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3386
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:51 am Post subject: |
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It's great that we extended him, obviously everyone would prefer less money but I think it's a fair deal. I think eventually, he'll be one of the pieces moved for our next superstar in a few years
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 5550
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:00 am Post subject: |
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With Dlo/Vin/ARe + TaP/Rui/Woo and maybe even MaC, the Lakers’ 3pt shooting may be such that Van can set a high screen to give those 6 (maybe 7 not counting Cam/Hayes) an open 3 to increase his value even if his (Van) shooting doesn’t improve. Hopefully we can get consistent player versions with better 3pt shooting somewhat like (too good to expect matching) the playoff production for Vin/ARe/Rui to see a real upgrade at 3pt shooting from last year.
The gamble of Van is a slight overpay in both $ (12 vs 9?) and yrs (4 vs 3?) but I like the risk based on the prospect of his ^3pt%, the team’s possible ^3pt% with his relative youth.
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When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on?
Last edited by Hanging from Rafters on Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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A Mad Chinaman
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 6399
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Question could be in what lineups that he would be the most helpful
Can’t play with Hayes - clog the paint
Can play with Wood, Rui or AD because of their offensive abilities
With LBJ at the 5
If Ham uses a full court press with a small ball lineuo |
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:00 am Post subject: |
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i love me some "Baby Worm"! would someone please measure this kid's height to end all the speculation? LOL!
i simply can not believe danny did us such a solid with that jazz trade! we got DLo, Vando and... malik all for old Brodie and a top 4 protected pick which hopefully will be in the mid-late 20s. |
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:08 am Post subject: |
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He will continue to start...
BTW, great signing. |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | i love me some "Baby Worm"! would someone please measure this kid's height to end all the speculation? LOL!
i simply can not believe danny did us such a solid with that jazz trade! we got DLo, Vando and... malik all for old Brodie and a top 4 protected pick which hopefully will be in the mid-late 20s. |
Danny tried to get us and thought he did…perhaps he saw Malik like I did, Van like I didn’t, and figured Dlo was inconsistent…all three he traded to us let us down when it counted most. 2 of 3 got DNPs and the other lost his starting job, in a win or go home playoff game. We are optimistic and certainly hopeful that we can win the trade but…make no mistake about it…things have to change for it to be as good as it looked initially. Dlo has to shed his post season woes rep and Van has to not be played off the court in the playoffs.
I see myself being pessimistic, I get it, but there has to be a balance to reflect reality. We already lost ground on the Beasley inclusion and need Van+Dlo to improve. It did help so far adding Rui to the group to get to the WCF so I’d consider us ahead vs Danny at this point. However, if Dlo/Van/Bea skill set was identified to give false hope due to reg season production yet failing to produce in the post season then it was sabatoge instead of a solid.
We still need to see how things play out to determine the value. Hopefully we can make fun of Danny after the season with #18!
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When it’s a reasonable possibility, I expect the Lakers to go after a ship like it can’t be denied. I haven’t seen a respectable effort by the Front Office for the last two off seasons nor the last trade deadline. What is going on? |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8647
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations to Vando!
Love the deal, love that he got extended and gonna remain here. |
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Denny_Russo
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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He's exactly what they need for the regular season. 50+ wins confirmed.
The playoffs will be about how well he can shoot the three ball and space the floor.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I've always liked Vando. Happy for him.
He brings energy and defense every night.
The 3pt shooting is what it is. At least he cuts and moves off ball well.
With what we're paying LBJ and AD, I kind of expect them to hold up their end of the bargain when it comes to 3pt shooting. Not asking for 40% just 35% will do alot.
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computernerd
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| Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | I am not as concerned with his 3pt % as some seem to be. Simple solution. Don’t shoot them.
Vanderbilt is only taking 1.5 per game. No reason he should be taking more. It is not his strength in a game. Lakers have other concerns with the 3pt shooters attempting 6-10 a game with a similar average.
The young man provides too many other positives on the court. Lakers need the energy on defense. They need his activity rebounding. His contract is the new average for a solid role player. I think some of you are so used to only seeing vet min contracts filling out the roster it shocks you to see a young player getting a solid contract.
Hope he keeps working hard and grows as a player. Most importantly he remains a Laker role player instead of getting included into the next trade.
Value what he provides. Try not to focus on just one dimension of his game. |
I think this sounds good in concept, but the problem is that he was getting “Westbrooked” in the playoffs. Teams were literally not guarding him and using his man to blow up pick and rolls and other action. In those situations he HAS to shoot and he has to make enough of them to make the opposition pay. He couldn’t do that in the playoffs and that’s why he had to take a seat next to coach. In those situations I could live with him taking a step in and shooting a 2 if he can make them. But he has to be able to make a shot in that situation. If he can’t it’s questionable whether he is worth that contract. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 4:37 am Post subject: |
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FWIW Vanderbilt was second to last in RAPTOR
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/
He may be a MLE level talent in upside due to age, but his actual impact is closer to 5M. This is definitely a klutch payment thing however it could also work out as Vandy is young enough where there could be improvement. I just find it weird we've been willing to give all this cash to these guys and let someone who was proven as a legit advanced stats impact guy, proven winner, and aslo elite defensively (Caruso) walk over money. Then, we also traded KCP, someone who was also one of the better 3&D guys. We've still yet to get the same level combo back. Imagine having Reaves, KCP, Caruso all on the same roster. Would have been fun to see defensively and on offense. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 5:39 am Post subject: |
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^^^^
Those RAPTOR numbers include his time with the Jazz. If you could split out his games with the Lakers, I think his RAPTOR would be a little better. His playoff numbers were better, though still a net negative.
I'm not thrilled with this contract, but I guess I'll give the front office the benefit of the doubt. The last time they gave out a contract based on upside potential was THT. Hopefully, this one works out better.
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tox
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:57 am Post subject: |
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This seems a little high for me given he got played off the floor in the playoffs. But having guys who are useful regular season players is good, and Vando is still young and might grow into the contract (especially 3 point shooting). And as noted the cap is going up so this will end up being more valuable.
This is also a tradeable contract to acquire a star as you aggregate salaries. |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| The closest comp this year is probably Herb Jones, who got 4-$54m as a rFA. He was in the same situation as Reaves in terms of contract limitations, so that was the max NO could pay him. His deal starts this year while Vando’s will start the following year under a higher cap. |
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