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defense
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 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | PAT BEV TOLD JARED NOT TO SIGN EXTENSION
| Quote: | | I text Vando… Thursday at 8:18 am I told him ‘don’t sign an extension, trust me. Hoop, stay in shape, have fun, and I repeat, do not sign an extension. Morning, gang. I thought of you. Love, gang.’ He replied to me ‘appreciate it, gang, Why do you think it’s better to wait?’ I told him why, obviously when you sign an extension you get your worth, but when you’re signing as a free agent, you get overpaid. That’s where the overpaid title comes from, when you’re a free agent. If a lot of you young guys don’t know, overpaid is a free agent, you getting your worth is an extension. He got his worth, but for what he does, he should be overpaid. If he would’ve waited, he might’ve gotten four years, $60 million or four years, $65 million, you know what I’m saying? So he left a ton of money on the table, but it’s also hard to turn down $48 million too. |
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Schroder probably took Beverly's advice |
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Ksig
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | PAT BEV TOLD JARED NOT TO SIGN EXTENSION
| Quote: | | I text Vando… Thursday at 8:18 am I told him ‘don’t sign an extension, trust me. Hoop, stay in shape, have fun, and I repeat, do not sign an extension. Morning, gang. I thought of you. Love, gang.’ He replied to me ‘appreciate it, gang, Why do you think it’s better to wait?’ I told him why, obviously when you sign an extension you get your worth, but when you’re signing as a free agent, you get overpaid. That’s where the overpaid title comes from, when you’re a free agent. If a lot of you young guys don’t know, overpaid is a free agent, you getting your worth is an extension. He got his worth, but for what he does, he should be overpaid. If he would’ve waited, he might’ve gotten four years, $60 million or four years, $65 million, you know what I’m saying? So he left a ton of money on the table, but it’s also hard to turn down $48 million too. |
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Schroder probably took Beverly's advice |
Like sure you can get paid more, but you're risking injury or a down year where you're getting paid the minimum also. If I was someone who hasnt gotten a bag yet and has already been traded once, I would think the extension is a no brainer. |
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PICKnPOP
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Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:32 am Post subject: |
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I know it’s highly unlikely that a player in his 20’s would grow, but vando looks taller than rui. He looks on par with Christian wood. Maybe the photo I saw from media say was fake, but it had AD, Christian, rui, and vando all in one pic. Anyone else see this pic floating around?
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waterman40
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:01 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if Vandy spent time fixing his jumper. If he can shoot corner 3's at 35-40%, that would be a huge upgrade.
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | I wonder if Vandy spent time fixing his jumper. If he can shoot corner 3's at 35-40%, that would be a huge upgrade. |
If he can shoot the 3 at 40% he should play 30 minutes a game lol |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:22 am Post subject: |
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He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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JJin77
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left. |
but at how many attempts? Shooting gravity is generated more by higher volume than % alone. If he makes less than 1 three per game from one side of the corner, teams will still leave him wide open to sag the paint regardless of his 3pt %. Thats why teams leave Dennis Shroeder left open and not Gabe, despite the fact DS shot better % from distance last season. |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JJin77 wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left. |
but at how many attempts? Shooting gravity is generated more by higher volume than % alone. If he makes less than 1 three per game from one side of the corner, teams will still leave him wide open to sag the paint regardless of his 3pt %. Thats why teams leave Dennis Shroeder left open and not Gabe, despite the fact DS shot better % from distance last season. |
Correct. |
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lakerican
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | JJin77 wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left. |
but at how many attempts? Shooting gravity is generated more by higher volume than % alone. If he makes less than 1 three per game from one side of the corner, teams will still leave him wide open to sag the paint regardless of his 3pt %. Thats why teams leave Dennis Shroeder left open and not Gabe, despite the fact DS shot better % from distance last season. |
Correct. |
If Vando is starting he is the 5th option, that's why he is usually left open. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| JJin77 wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left. |
but at how many attempts? Shooting gravity is generated more by higher volume than % alone. If he makes less than 1 three per game from one side of the corner, teams will still leave him wide open to sag the paint regardless of his 3pt %. Thats why teams leave Dennis Shroeder left open and not Gabe, despite the fact DS shot better % from distance last season. |
People focus too much on percentage. The read >35% and think “okay that’s reliable,” but as you point out, it’s not a net positive if it comes off of 1 attempt per game and every other time they touched it in the corner, the defense was taking away everything else. That means more wasted possessions. How many times did you see Vando swing the ball off a wide open look that became a bad, contested shot for someone else?
NBA offense isn’t just the shots becoming makes, it’s possession becoming points. |
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SGSD32
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 8:57 am Post subject: |
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I don't have much in the way of expectations of Vando finally being able to shoot consistently.
But.. I love the idea of sending him out to beat the (bleep) out of elite wings for a while... and crashing the boards.
He's a very useful player. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:33 am Post subject: |
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You don't really want someone like Vando taking 5+ threes a game. You want him to pick his spots and be capable of making defenses pay when they leave him open. He's never going to have that type of gravity. That's not his game so you work around it and put him in spots to succeed.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I just want to see him develop his ability to catch a pass cleanly and finish against light contests in the paint. That’s more realistic than expecting him to suddenly be a high volume competent shooter from range. What made him unplayable wasn’t teams sagging off of him on the perimeter, it was even when he cut and got a pass he would fumble the ball or be unable to generate a shot against a defender trying to get back to him and end up pitching the ball back out, completely ruining the possession while clogging up the paint even worse. |
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TDRock
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JJin77
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | I just want to see him develop his ability to catch a pass cleanly and finish against light contests in the paint. That’s more realistic than expecting him to suddenly be a high volume competent shooter from range. What made him unplayable wasn’t teams sagging off of him on the perimeter, it was even when he cut and got a pass he would fumble the ball or be unable to generate a shot against a defender trying to get back to him and end up pitching the ball back out, completely ruining the possession while clogging up the paint even worse. |
Amen. 99% agreed with everything you said there, except improving on his catching might not be more realistic. Sadly, I personally never ever heard a player with bad hand fix his problem in my sports fandom career.
What's funny is that if you search for his shooting splits his at the rim% score is actually very high. But he can't cleanly catch a pass on the move which severely limits his effectiveness as a cutter/dunker's spot player. therefore, upon receiving a pass, whatever window of opportunity he has often vanishes while he takes half a second to gather.
Then, since he is low key average leaper with small hand/thin frame, instead of finishing strong over bigs, he would choose to dribble it out or seek for a pass often with only few seconds left on a shot clock. This is a reason why people who just stat watch don't understand when fans who actually watch real games criticize Vando's poor finishing ability more than anything.
Hopefully, he can learn to be a better screen setter. There is a world where he can be a effective short roll big man, aka D Green role. down the line.
He is pretty good ball handler for his size and a nifty interior passer that there might be something to look into. |
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JJin77
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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....continue
Having said that, I still believe shooting is the most realistic/simple basketball skill Vando can learn. All I'm saying is that his shooting won't help the spacing and our overall offense in grand scheme of things until he can prove at a higher volume. There is a reason Vogel and lakers(including Lebron) wanted AD to shoot 5 3s a game back in 2020, and now we are hearing Ham wants AD to shoot 6 3s a game.
If Vando is playing 24~26 min., he needs to shoot 5 3s and make around 2(slight less) a night to generate a gravity. Not happening this yr, but it still is a simplest way for him to add value to our offense. Or he can improve slightly less than that but enough to justify a hard close out for a chance to attack the paint. That would be a not insignificant improvement. I don't know if I trust his decision making once he attack the close out or not. but that would be the next chapter for his development as a player, I guess. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:54 am Post subject: |
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And that's why he was right in signing the extension. I know it's a minor injury, but if he loses his starting spot, and then is fighting for minutes as a backup between Wood/Rui etc. He may end up not having a season where a team wants to give him 60-70M. He may have not even gotten the 48M the Lakers gave him. There's no guarantee teams will view him as an integral part of a team's defense a year from now.
Basically when you're a fringe starter, and a role player, someone gives you all that cash, you take it. Immediately, Pat Bev is way off. It's the same thing for Austin. Although Austin has a higher ceiling and standing than Vandy, the moment he could get all that cash, he took it. When you're not a star, you take that money ASAP. It's not guaranteed to be there in case you have a down injury plagued season. |
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JJin77
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JJin77 wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | He's already at 37% from the right corner. Really just needs to get more accurate from the left. |
but at how many attempts? Shooting gravity is generated more by higher volume than % alone. If he makes less than 1 three per game from one side of the corner, teams will still leave him wide open to sag the paint regardless of his 3pt %. Thats why teams leave Dennis Shroeder left open and not Gabe, despite the fact DS shot better % from distance last season. |
Correct. |
If Vando is starting he is the 5th option, that's why he is usually left open. |
Sure that's a part of the reason too. But, either way, my point is that his 3% won't matter how teams scheme against us when he is on the floor until he can consistently knock it down on much higher volume. |
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JJin77
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: |
And that's why he was right in signing the extension. I know it's a minor injury, but if he loses his starting spot, and then is fighting for minutes as a backup between Wood/Rui etc. He may end up not having a season where a team wants to give him 60-70M. He may have not even gotten the 48M the Lakers gave him. There's no guarantee teams will view him as an integral part of a team's defense a year from now.
Basically when you're a fringe starter, and a role player, someone gives you all that cash, you take it. Immediately, Pat Bev is way off. It's the same thing for Austin. Although Austin has a higher ceiling and standing than Vandy, the moment he could get all that cash, he took it. When you're not a star, you take that money ASAP. It's not guaranteed to be there in case you have a down injury plagued season. |
You are right. We as fans treat this business aspect of nba like 2k, but in reality, not many individuals would nor should gamble on that kind of money.
Having said that, I would loved Dlo/AR's contract to be without PO.
A big part of praise Pelinka received during past summer is due to bringing guys back to team friendly contracts. But with PO, those contract loses its merit to certain degree. Just being greedy. |
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TDRock
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defense
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Nothing more annoying than when guys get a good payday and proceed to be hurt from the start of the season. Gimmi my money back bro!
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Hold him out until he is healthy, it's not worth it - we have bad luck with these foot and toe injuries and he is a guy who needs his quickness to be effective |
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eureca
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Is bursitis something we should be worried about long term? |
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TDRock
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| eureca wrote: | | Is bursitis something we should be worried about long term? |
It's certainly concerning because it's the kind of thing that only goes away with rest but then it can flare up again at any moment. Heel bursitis on a basketball player is tricky zicky sounding.
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miggz23
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | Nothing more annoying than when guys get a good payday and proceed to be hurt from the start of the season. Gimmi my money back bro!
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I know its frustrating... But no one plans to get hurt. Just an unfortunate thing that happens.
Unlike players who stopped producing after they get paid. |
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