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Nonamehero
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Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 806
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 Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:29 pm Post subject: Lets start a Petition to get Ham Fired this Offseason |
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I stopped watching most of the games after we traded for Westbrick.
I don't want to rage every game and destroy my health.
Mostly I been following highlights.
After the trade this year, got super excited, started watching again.
And after 3 games, I realized Ham is just as big of a problem as Westbrick.
The dude is completely clueless.
if any of you still holding out hope for this idiots, please don't hold your breath.
It aint happening, I wish he could turn into a decent coach, but that is the same as wishing Westbrick can shoot, not turn the ball over, play team defense, it is wishful thinking.
It is simply asking too much out of our idiot coach who is only good as a motivator and an assistant coach.
and you might hope oh he can be a dumb brick, just hire some good assistant coach for him, and we are golden.
NO, that's not how it works.
When the leader is a dumb brick, you will check out mentally as part of his staff.
Look at the Nets when Steve Nash is coaching, it was just a (bleep) show, and now that he left, Jacque Vaughn is doing heck of a job.
Imagine you in the coaching staff telling Ham oh I dont think we should play the 3 guard lineup with Brick, Beverly and Schroder, as none of them can shoot, Ham then tells you NAWWW the analytic checks out, we are golden.... like would you even care at that point.
I see the camera turn to our timeouts, I can even see the whole coaching staff just adapting Ham coaching stye, pumping up our guys, and yell YAHHH lets go, no one is drawing up plays or have a ounce of strategy discussion. When Lebron is not injured, this is not as bad, as Lebron is a floor general himself.
Anyways to be honest, no one wants to hear it, and will call me a fake fan, but we have to honest with ourselves, this season is over with this idiot coach.
but we still have hope for next season, maybe if we put all of our voice together and just start a petition to fire Ham, we will have a chance to compete. |
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Polarbear
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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And the carousel continues
I mean that works out so well, right? |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I think Ham's problem is he really prioritizes guy's feelings and having players like him. I can't explain why he'll play some guys a certain way and not others otherwise. His other problem is he's just not a good Xs and Os coach regardless.
He's also missing his two true PGs in DLO and LeBron, meaning the team is basically brainless out there in terms of having NBA level schemes to guide them.
He really would have benefitted from the Vogel treatment IMO, that is, having his assistants hand selected. He could then focus on managing player emotions and then the more senior assistant could lay down the law in terms of plays and rotations |
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Nonamehero
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Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | And the carousel continues
I mean that works out so well, right? |
We should have never fired Vogel.
But the Westbrick debacle forced it.
And then we had to get someone who can manage Brick.
I guess we are still being haunted by the Brick.
But doesn’t mean we made a mistake before, we should just roll with our current mistake. |
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Nonamehero
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Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Draper wrote: | I think Ham's problem is he really prioritizes guy's feelings and having players like him. I can't explain why he'll play some guys a certain way and not others otherwise. His other problem is he's just not a good Xs and Os coach regardless.
He's also missing his two true PGs in DLO and LeBron, meaning the team is basically brainless out there in terms of having NBA level schemes to guide them.
He really would have benefitted from the Vogel treatment IMO, that is, having his assistants hand selected. He could then focus on managing player emotions and then the more senior assistant could lay down the law in terms of plays and rotations |
If you are a smart assistant coach, would you want to work under an idiot of a head coach.
Would he even listen, would you even be able to speak the same language that he can understand?
Ham is like Westbrick.
He doesn’t know what he is doing, but he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.
So inside his brain, his self encouragement is constantly working to tell himself that he is actually a genius and he is on path to greatness, and he needs to try out 1 billion different lineups as he sees fits.
At head coach level, you have so many smart people working under you.
You really don’t have to know everything. But you need to be able to know who is actually smart and what you need help on.
Unfortunately Ham lack that self awareness just like Westbrick. |
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Polarbear
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 6129
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nonamehero wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | I think Ham's problem is he really prioritizes guy's feelings and having players like him. I can't explain why he'll play some guys a certain way and not others otherwise. His other problem is he's just not a good Xs and Os coach regardless.
He's also missing his two true PGs in DLO and LeBron, meaning the team is basically brainless out there in terms of having NBA level schemes to guide them.
He really would have benefitted from the Vogel treatment IMO, that is, having his assistants hand selected. He could then focus on managing player emotions and then the more senior assistant could lay down the law in terms of plays and rotations |
If you are a smart assistant coach, would you want to work under an idiot of a head coach.
Would he even listen, would you even be able to speak the same language that he can understand?
Ham is like Westbrick.
He doesn’t know what he is doing, but he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.
So inside his brain, his self encouragement is constantly working to tell himself that he is actually a genius and he is on path to greatness, and he needs to try out 1 billion different lineups as he sees fits.
At head coach level, you have so many smart people working under you.
You really don’t have to know everything. But you need to be able to know who is actually smart and what you need help on.
Unfortunately Ham lack that self awareness just like Westbrick. |
I have to rain in my emotions after losses to, but I just want to understand what you’re saying you’re now saying that Darvin ham is not respected around the leak is that what you’re trying to insinuate? |
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Nonamehero
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Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | Nonamehero wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | I think Ham's problem is he really prioritizes guy's feelings and having players like him. I can't explain why he'll play some guys a certain way and not others otherwise. His other problem is he's just not a good Xs and Os coach regardless.
He's also missing his two true PGs in DLO and LeBron, meaning the team is basically brainless out there in terms of having NBA level schemes to guide them.
He really would have benefitted from the Vogel treatment IMO, that is, having his assistants hand selected. He could then focus on managing player emotions and then the more senior assistant could lay down the law in terms of plays and rotations |
If you are a smart assistant coach, would you want to work under an idiot of a head coach.
Would he even listen, would you even be able to speak the same language that he can understand?
Ham is like Westbrick.
He doesn’t know what he is doing, but he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know.
So inside his brain, his self encouragement is constantly working to tell himself that he is actually a genius and he is on path to greatness, and he needs to try out 1 billion different lineups as he sees fits.
At head coach level, you have so many smart people working under you.
You really don’t have to know everything. But you need to be able to know who is actually smart and what you need help on.
Unfortunately Ham lack that self awareness just like Westbrick. |
I have to rain in my emotions after losses to, but I just want to understand what you’re saying you’re now saying that Darvin ham is not respected around the leak is that what you’re trying to insinuate? |
I am not emotional after the loss.
I been calling for Ham to get fired for a week now.
The dude is just as bad as Luke Walton, if not worst.
Not sure if the his staff respect him or not.
But the end result is the no good consistent rotation or strategy being implemented.
So either his staff are idiots too, or he doesn’t listen to them, or both.
Either way I am trying to say this is beyond fixable.
Vogel had flaws too, but Vogel made adjustment and is a good coach overall.
I seen enough of Ham interviews to spot a complete clueless head coach. |
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Worst coach the Lakers have ever hard. No question about that. Even Luke seems level above this dumbass. |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Rookie head coach, rookie head coach mistakes. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Rookie head coach, rookie head coach mistakes. |
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1995Lakers
Star Player
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 4179
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Worst coach the Lakers have ever hard. No question about that. Even Luke seems level above this dumbass. |
He is a real meathead. I still remember this dude as more for being the no skilled dunker for the Nuggets. But at least the meathead can get these dudes to play hard which is really more than half the battle in the regular season. But is this dude going to win us playoff games with his coaching acumen??? It would be a miracle if he isnt a liability in the playoffs.
As for worst coach???? I would actually rate Magic and Randy Pfund worse than this meathead.....for now |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| blackmamba08 wrote: | | Worst coach the Lakers have ever hard. No question about that. Even Luke seems level above this dumbass. |
Careful. Luke was epically terrible.
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“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58334
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:22 am Post subject: |
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The coach inherited a situation where there was Westbrook and an injury prone AD/Lebron combo without any chemistry. The team was 11th in the West.
Right now, a year later, they're in the same boat. Only, they've gotten out of the Westbrook situation by paying up a possible lottery pick. So the team has much better chemistry and floor balance now.
Guess what hasn't changed? AD/Bron injury proneness. And they didn't exactly trade for a warrior in DLO. Talented dude, great all around skill for a 3rd option, but known not to be a big time leader. It would have helped if some of our players got a little Kobe in them right now instead of sitting out as much as they have.
Honestly, I never got blaming last year on the coach, and this year while I am unimpressed by Ham's work, I don't blame him either. As I said a year ago, for those who wanted the coach gone, are we really sure we will upgrade? Will we upgrade and magically everything will turn around with WB? Because the coach had a proven resume and won you a ring. He didn't get along/mesh with WB, but aside from that, he was probably in the top 10 of the head coaches rankings at the time. He had given 2 teams elite results when you provided him with defensive talent (which we didn't last year). So would we really go out and get someone truly elite, and pay up for one? (We didn't).
I wouldn't fire Ham, as I think he deserves a full season free of WB, and the injuries to AD/Bron have really hurt us this year (again). I only blame Pelinka (and Jeanie). Ham has his strengths and weaknesses, but overall, he's probably going to end up being a solid respected coach. The team was playing solid when Bron/AD were in with DLO. We need to see a full season of that, before we blame it all on Ham. |
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | The coach inherited a situation where there was Westbrook and an injury prone AD/Lebron combo without any chemistry. The team was 11th in the West.
Right now, a year later, they're in the same boat. Only, they've gotten out of the Westbrook situation by paying up a possible lottery pick. So the team has much better chemistry and floor balance now.
Guess what hasn't changed? AD/Bron injury proneness. And they didn't exactly trade for a warrior in DLO. Talented dude, great all around skill for a 3rd option, but known not to be a big time leader. It would have helped if some of our players got a little Kobe in them right now instead of sitting out as much as they have.
Honestly, I never got blaming last year on the coach, and this year while I am unimpressed by Ham's work, I don't blame him either. As I said a year ago, for those who wanted the coach gone, are we really sure we will upgrade? Will we upgrade and magically everything will turn around with WB? Because the coach had a proven resume and won you a ring. He didn't get along/mesh with WB, but aside from that, he was probably in the top 10 of the head coaches rankings at the time. He had given 2 teams elite results when you provided him with defensive talent (which we didn't last year). So would we really go out and get someone truly elite, and pay up for one? (We didn't).
I wouldn't fire Ham, as I think he deserves a full season free of WB, and the injuries to AD/Bron have really hurt us this year (again). I only blame Pelinka (and Jeanie). Ham has his strengths and weaknesses, but overall, he's probably going to end up being a solid respected coach. The team was playing solid when Bron/AD were in with DLO. We need to see a full season of that, before we blame it all on Ham. |
I can agree or disagree with some things you wrote. Some are quite good.
But this last thing we are never going to see this. Never. LBJ will be what 39 next year at this time, AD is injury prone player made of glass for years and DLO is also injured quite a lot. So if we can have for example 40 games next season with all three in the squad at same time I would be estatic. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58334
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I meant we need to see a season where he has a real team like he has now. Of course I expect LBJ to continue to do what he has been, and AD is AD with injuries. I also know DLO's career arc. Difference is now we have depth. We've seen it. We beat the Warriors, we beat the Thunder on the road, without our stars. That's what we need and will have next season. If Ham had that all season, we'd not be sitting 11th.
I'm just saying, what we have to work with now and at the season's start is night and day. Had we had this team from the start of the season, there's no way we're sitting at 11th in the West right now. We're probably even with the injuries somewhere in that 6-7 range in the West. So each game is not as must win, and each injury is not as devastating as currently.
Look, I'm not his biggest supporter nor do I think he's a better coach than Vogel. I thought Vogel was the best coach we had since Phil. But as Vogel said to some writer last year, when you have a team basically that has no depth and then there's injuries galore on top of that, it's virtually impossible for a coach to get his system/flow going. There's just no continuity.
I don't believe Ham has had any more continuity than Vogel had and until the WB trade he had the same roster limitations (only now those limitations are lifted).
So sure if you want to be fair, and hold the two to the same "win now" standard that they used to BS and fire Vogel. Yeah. But neither deserves to be fired. AD and Lebron barely play 30 games together a season, and then there's the WB situation we just got out of. Very hard for me to blame it on the coach. Is Ty Lue gonna get fired now the Clips are 0-4 with WB? |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58334
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Let me add, the Clips are 0-5 with Westbrook. And they didn't give up a single thing for him. We gave up key championship pieces/role players that made the system work (Kuz, KCP, Caruso etc).
Now we've finally gotten out of that mess, and I've seen some positives with Vandy, Beasley, DLO. Guess how many games that trio have played with AD/Bron? A big fat 2 out of 8.
Our record since the new group came to LA is 5-3. That's not bad. If you prorate that to a season. It's like a 48 win team. Which is what we have the talent for, now, assuming AD/Bron continue to be as injury prone as they have been.
I want Ham to get some time with DLO, Beasley, Vandy. They look good in his system. I know Ham has a lot of small ball/3 or 4 guard stuff that people don't like (I don't either). But the team looked damn good when the pieces were there. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21446
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| The reality is, not every new head coach in the NBA is going to be a winner. Some will be great head coaches and some won’t. We tried to find a first time head coach who would be great, it wasn’t a 100% sure thing. No reason to call Ham an idiot or blame the front office. We rolled the dice and our numbers didn’t come up. It happens all the time in this league. Let’s see if we can find somebody better in the off-season. LeBron doesn’t have much time left, we can’t waste it. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Look, I'm not his biggest supporter nor do I think he's a better coach than Vogel. I thought Vogel was the best coach we had since Phil. But as Vogel said to some writer last year, when you have a team basically that has no depth and then there's injuries galore on top of that, it's virtually impossible for a coach to get his system/flow going. There's just no continuity. |
I'm not going to dive into the Ham debate. The ultimate standard for an NBA head coach is winning. Even if Ham did everything perfectly, he would be subject to criticism for losing. Conversely, if we were winning, the complaints about Ham would have no traction. Just win, baby.
I will comment about Vogel, though. He was an okay coach, but do not underestimate the importance of the coaching triumvirate we had during the title season: Vogel, Kidd, and Hollins. That trio was excellent. After Kidd and Hollins were gone, Vogel was not as effective. By the end of last season, he looked broken after two years of injuries and roster changes, plus one year of Westbrook. He needed to go, as much for his own good as for the good of the team.
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TDRock
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Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49020
Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
I will comment about Vogel, though. He was an okay coach, but do not underestimate the importance of the coaching triumvirate we had during the title season: Vogel, Kidd, and Hollins. That trio was excellent. After Kidd and Hollins were gone, Vogel was not as effective. By the end of last season, he looked broken after two years of injuries and roster changes, plus one year of Westbrook. He needed to go, as much for his own good as for the good of the team. |
Does not get stated often enough. |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Some coaches are just better off as assistants. I'm not sure Ham is that guy, but he's only in year 1, so one must assume that management will be patient with him. Plus the injuries make it a hard sell to let him go so early. That and the Lakers rep is pretty bad right now. Quin Snyder blackballed them because of the way the Vogel firing was handled. |
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anth2000
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 12160
Location: Pasadena, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Since Phil Jackson left, and perhaps only the Vogel hire, the Lakers put little thought and effort into acquiring a big name proven head coach.
They should gone stronger for Lue and Monty when they were available.
Maybe they should consider firing Ham or moving him to assistant and hiring Ime Udoka?
And why do we have 10 assistant coaches who all don’t appear to do anything?? |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43976
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| No. |
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Laker4lifer4real
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Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 3483
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Reaves had a bad start, but what about talking him up and putting him back in to get another chance? Mo Bamba needs more run too… |
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Hanging from Rafters
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Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 4385
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| 1995Lakers wrote: | | blackmamba08 wrote: | | Worst coach the Lakers have ever hard. No question about that. Even Luke seems level above this dumbass. |
He is a real meathead. I still remember this dude as more for being the no skilled dunker for the Nuggets. But at least the meathead can get these dudes to play hard which is really more than half the battle in the regular season. But is this dude going to win us playoff games with his coaching acumen??? It would be a miracle if he isnt a liability in the playoffs.
As for worst coach???? I would actually rate Magic and Randy Pfund worse than this meathead.....for now |
Rudy T comes to mind a coaching bungles. But yea…I don’t feel confident that the Lakers will win with the current configuration. When a team consistently falls behind early, gets out played after halftime to start the 3rd quarter, and almost always struggles to close games…even in wins…the coach is most likely not competent. Unfortunately, it seems that’s where the Lakers are right now. Those rookie coachers in green, Lue when he was a rookie coach, others…makes the rookie coach excuse not valid for the things I’ve witnessed.
The thing is, Rob looked just as bad as a GM, and then seemingly out of nowhere bam!!!…not only traded WB but built a competitive roster, for relatively low cost. Sometimes sticking with what is messed up is better than constant change because the new thing may be just as bad as the old. We saw that with Vogel being switched out for Ham. So…unless an obvious up-grade as coach becomes available we’d be better off just sticking with Ham. He might surprise us like Pelinka did if we give him time to grow into his role and learn what to do.
Before petitioning to fire let’s petition to limit those 3 guard line ups(some experimentation ok), more time for centers…TBryant and MoBamba both under used…Vanderbilt mostly at SF for perimeter D where he is a game changer vs just decent as a post defender. Petition for plays to be ran for Rui at PF for mid-range shots and plays for Beasley on double screens for open 3pt looks. Unless we’re running plays for those guys they are almost useless as they really don’t bring a lot else so sub them out if not running plays for them. Gabriel and Reaves are not as good as those guys but are still useful when plays aren’t ran for them so give them minutes when not focusing on Beasley/Rui.
Petition for Mo/AD/Vande/TBjr/Schro defensive intensity line up for at least a short period to test lock down effectiveness.
Petition for Mo/AD/Hachi/Beas/LWIV offensive line up for a short time to see how good offensively the line up could be.
Firing Ham at this point could be as bad a keeping him….just made the mistake with the previous coach…let’s not make the same mistake right after we just made it with Vogel.
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43976
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Rudy 3 wasn’t a bad coach. He had an unbalanced team of almost all small forwards playing .500 basketball. |
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