| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
32
Retired Number
Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 70605
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:10 am Post subject: Should the Lakers retire Lebron and AD's jersey? |
|
|
Last night was Pau's jersey ceremony and I noticed a small debate emerging in the game thread about Lebron and AD jerseys being retired by the Lakers. I personally believe they both have done enough right now to get their jerseys retired by the Lakers. I actually felt that way when they won the title and the subsequent down years have not changed my opinion. They have already met the Laker's strict criteria for jersey retirement.
1. Hall of fame players
2. Major contributors to a championship team
3. Win at least one championship
If you want a historical comparison you can reference the 1972 Lakers championship. Wilt and Goodrich had similar playing years with the Lakers and they won one championship. Their numbers are retired.
_________________
Nobody in the NBA can touch the Laker brand, which, like the uniform color, is pure gold. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
DD20045
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 1345
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
1 more championship.
_________________
Go Lakers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epic_
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020
Posts: 9788
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
I’m willing to wait till they finish their careers before answering
_________________
💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖
2 top 15 players + depth? Gimme that! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Eindhoven
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1880
Location: ZĂĽrich
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'd retire 23 for LeBron, here's a little of a Wilt thing: wasn't exactly on his peak when arrived in LA, but got one chip and played very well. Maybe that alone wouldn't vouch for a number retirement, but being an all-time great has some advantages.
AD wouldn't have that benefit. He may get there someday, one or two more rings would help, but as of today, #3 remains down.
ed: even if LeBron gets 2 more rings I would retire only one number for him (he can choose 6 or 23). I wasn't too much on favor of retiring 2 for Kobe, but it's OK because it was Kobe.
_________________
.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 22386
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lebron needs 1 more imo.
Davis needs 1 more and sustained success as the unquestioned best player on the team who is available way more than he has been.
_________________
2 star model (Lebron/AD) in 2023-24 = no playoffs, again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 19883
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
LeBron will end with at least 7 years as a Laker. More than he played in Miami, so probably. And AD will play at least 6 seasons here if he doesn’t opt out and extend with us after next summer, which he probably will, and could end up playing 8-10 years with the Lakers. Pau played 7, so I think they will be retired.
LeBron is also going to go down as the disputed GOAT, and loved by basketball fans for decades to come so I think there is value for the team in having his jersey on the wall. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GOODRICH25
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 2458
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
James should get 23, I disliked that he switched to 6, was actually thinking it's only for his stupid movie and that he will go back to 23 soon after, but he keeps going. Either way he did more with 23 and that one should go up as of now (unless he prefers 6). Never both, that's a Kobe only thing, and he actually had a career worth of resume with either number. James is not in that bracket
AD should also go up, I think he stays long enough on the Lakers to deserve it, he already has the ring as a 1B option, now he only needs a longer stay
Pollard and Mikkelsen should also be there btw, but that's another topic
_________________
48 49 50 52 53 54 72 80 82
85 87 88 00 01 02 09 10 20
17 99 19 22 44 13 25 Mic.
52 33 32 42 34 8 24 16 23 3 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 14082
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
no, certainly not as of now.
bron-
Lottery
Bubble ring (which is the same)
1st round bounce
Lottery
TBD (window year)
How many games has he played?
He probably gets it retired for the circus nature of it but it wont be for being a great laker like everyone else up there.
AD-
No.
IMHO
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
Last edited by Halflife on Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Go4thaGold
Star Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 1410
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Need at least 1 more Championship.
_________________
Go Lakers!
Go Trojans!
Go Dodgers!
Go Chargers! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 18177
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Lebron 100%,
AD-75%
If the bar was multiple championships, then do we take down wilt and Goodrich jerseys?
Wilt only played 5 seasons for the lakers
Last edited by mad55557777 on Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 14082
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 50955
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 22386
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Oh they will go up for sure. That doesn’t mean that fans can’t disagree with decisions.
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired.
Some are also hesitant on the bubble title. It was a level playing field, but still it wasn’t the rigor of an entire season + playoffs.
There isn’t a right or wrong tbh. That’s why HoF and retiring jerseys is not always agreed upon.
_________________
2 star model (Lebron/AD) in 2023-24 = no playoffs, again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 57689
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Yes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 50955
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Oh they will go up for sure. That doesn’t mean that fans can’t disagree with decisions.
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired.
Some are also hesitant on the bubble title. It was a level playing field, but still it wasn’t the rigor of an entire season + playoffs.
There isn’t a right or wrong tbh. That’s why HoF and retiring jerseys is not always agreed upon. |
You’re entitled to disagree that they deserve it (it’s a ludicrous opinion, but this is America). Believe it or not, we used to have these threads about Pau with the same type of guy arguing no way he deserves it. You know, the kind of guy who thinks the HoF should only be like 8 people.
Anyway years from now when the current emotions have cooled and it’s announced that their jerseys are being retired it will seem like such a no-brainer that nobody will bat an eye.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 36113
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
First, there is no criteria for retiring a number. There is only a tradition that the retiree be a Hall of Famer.
Some people are using Wilt as a criteria because he's a retiree who played the least number of games. But there's no reason a retiree can't have fewer games than Wilt played.
To me, Lebron is a no brainer. I think he's earned it. And there is no way the Lakers wouldn't retire him. Why wouldn't the Lakers want to honor a GOAT level player who led them to a ring?
I think there is a good chance that AD will be retired, but I hedge on that one because he's only played 170 games as a Laker so far, which is pretty slim. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 14082
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Oh they will go up for sure. That doesn’t mean that fans can’t disagree with decisions.
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired.
Some are also hesitant on the bubble title. It was a level playing field, but still it wasn’t the rigor of an entire season + playoffs.
There isn’t a right or wrong tbh. That’s why HoF and retiring jerseys is not always agreed upon. |
we don't know if they will go up. Bron probably, but not for being a great laker AD I don't think so. he barely plays. Now, if they pull a rabbit out of the arse this year then of course. it will show that the bubble wasn't a fluke.
The wilt comparison doesn't work. Wilt was an icon. bron is too as an individual but he hasn't had the impact on our team outside of the bubble. Facts show that.
_________________
Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dont_be_a_wuss
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 19883
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Well the thread does ask “should they” not do you think they will be.
There was a lot of debate about Fisher when he retired as to should the Lakers retire the jersey and we got the clear criteria that if you make the HOF you go on the wall. Presumably there is some minimum amount of years played as well. Who are the longest tenured Lakers who made the HOF not to go on the wall in the last 30 years? Mitch Richmond? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 22386
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Oh they will go up for sure. That doesn’t mean that fans can’t disagree with decisions.
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired.
Some are also hesitant on the bubble title. It was a level playing field, but still it wasn’t the rigor of an entire season + playoffs.
There isn’t a right or wrong tbh. That’s why HoF and retiring jerseys is not always agreed upon. |
You’re entitled to disagree that they deserve it (it’s a ludicrous opinion, but this is America). Believe it or not, we used to have these threads about Pau with the same type of guy arguing no way he deserves it. You know, the kind of guy who thinks the HoF should only be like 8 people.
Anyway years from now when the current emotions have cooled and it’s announced that their jerseys are being retired it will seem like such a no-brainer that nobody will bat an eye. |
I never understood the Pau arguments against personally, but everyone is entitled to think what they want.
Imo Gasol was the key in taking a team that was failing with 1 star and helping that star get over the hump with 3 finals appearances and 2 chips. If that isn’t jersey retirement worthy for a franchise, not sure what is.
_________________
2 star model (Lebron/AD) in 2023-24 = no playoffs, again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 50955
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Imo Gasol was the key in taking a team that was failing with 1 star and helping that star get over the hump |
You just described AD.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 22386
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Imo Gasol was the key in taking a team that was failing with 1 star and helping that star get over the hump |
You just described AD. |
I don’t see them as being equal yet tbh. I do think AD is the better player, but he isn’t nearly as available as Gasol and he has to do more to match what Gasol ended up doing.
Equating 1 bubble title to Pau’s accomplishments as a Laker is insulting to Pau.
AD can surpass Gasol, but in the current form he’s not there yet.
_________________
2 star model (Lebron/AD) in 2023-24 = no playoffs, again.
Last edited by LakerSD on Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 50955
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
Well the thread does ask “should they” not do you think they will be.
There was a lot of debate about Fisher when he retired as to should the Lakers retire the jersey and we got the clear criteria that if you make the HOF you go on the wall. Presumably there is some minimum amount of years played as well. Who are the longest tenured Lakers who made the HOF not to go on the wall in the last 30 years? Mitch Richmond? |
The Fisher talk is silly. Retired jerseys aren’t for players of his caliber. I mean, the Thunder retired Nick Collison, but it’s certainly not in the Laker tradition.
It would be interesting to compile a list of stars who were the clear first or second best player on a title team who didn’t get retired. The list may not exist.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Halflife
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 14082
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ocho
Retired Number
Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 50955
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | Imo Gasol was the key in taking a team that was failing with 1 star and helping that star get over the hump |
You just described AD. |
I don’t see them as being equal yet tbh. I do think AD is the better player, but he isn’t nearly as available as Gasol and he has to do more to match what Gasol ended up doing tbh.
Equating 1 bubble title to Pau’s accomplishments as a Laker is insulting to Pau.
AD can surpass Gasol, but in the current form he’s not there yet. |
Time tends to take care of these kinds of emotional concerns. If you’re a star that puts up a banner then probably nothing else even matters. When you factor in all the other accolades (he’s a Top 75 team selection for heavens sake) it’s an extremely silly argument to suggest he shouldn’t be recognized. On this very website people argued against Pau because he wouldn’t make the Hall of Fame (whoops) and they were mad because he pouted in his last years with the Lakers and eventually left them in FA. There used to be a lot of animosity towards Pau a few years ago. Time heals.
_________________
14-5-3-12 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 36113
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSD wrote: |
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired. |
I doubt it bothered many people at the time.
The Lakers began retiring numbers in November 1983. Wilt, Elgin, and West were the first three numbers retired at the same ceremony.
Given that these were the first three, and there was no criteria at all, I doubt people were quibbling about the choices.
Elgin was a Lakers great. West and Wilt led the Lakers to their first ring in LA. Why wouldn't you want to honor them?
And remember, these were the pre-Internet days. You couldn't immediately look up how many games Wilt played for the Lakers and compare that to West and Baylor, and argue with your friends his Lakers career wasn't long enough.
The "did Wilt play enough games to deserve having his number retired?" discussion didn't really begin until decades later. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
