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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: |
I’m sure a lot of old timers weren’t keen on Wilt getting his jersey retired. |
I doubt it bothered many people at the time.
The Lakers began retiring numbers in November 1983. Wilt, Elgin, and West were the first three numbers retired at the same ceremony.
Given that these were the first three, and there was no criteria at all, I doubt people were quibbling about the choices.
Elgin was a Lakers great. West and Wilt led the Lakers to their first ring in LA. Why wouldn't you want to honor them?
And remember, these were the pre-Internet days. You couldn't immediately look up how many games Wilt played for the Lakers and compare that to West and Baylor, and argue with your friends his Lakers career wasn't long enough.
The "did Wilt play enough games to deserve having his number retired?" discussion didn't really begin until decades later. |
This is what I mean by time healing. 15 years from now when Davis is getting his jersey retired people aren’t going to be actively mad about his availability. They’ll be happy he gave us a banner.
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GOODRICH25
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Joined: 17 Jun 2017
Posts: 3366
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | First, there is no criteria for retiring a number. There is only a tradition that the retiree be a Hall of Famer.
Some people are using Wilt as a criteria because he's a retiree who played the least number of games. But there's no reason a retiree can't have fewer games than Wilt played.
To me, Lebron is a no brainer. I think he's earned it. And there is no way the Lakers wouldn't retire him. Why wouldn't the Lakers want to honor a GOAT level player who led them to a ring?
I think there is a good chance that AD will be retired, but I hedge on that one because he's only played 170 games as a Laker so far, which is pretty slim. |
That's the only thing anyone can say about AD, he hasn't played enough. So far 4 seasons (least of any player up there) and even then he missed like half the games there. With more time that should be a no argument though
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | There was a lot of debate about Fisher when he retired as to should the Lakers retire the jersey and we got the clear criteria that if you make the HOF you go on the wall. Presumably there is some minimum amount of years played as well. Who are the longest tenured Lakers who made the HOF not to go on the wall in the last 30 years? Mitch Richmond? |
Here are the Hall of Famers who played at least 100 games for the Lakers without getting their numbers retired.
Vlade Divac. 535 games. His number was retired by the Kings.
Bob McAdoo. 224 games. Key bench player for two ring teams. His best years were for Buffalo, which became the Clippers, but the Clippers have never retired a number.
Adrien Dantley. 114 games. His number was retired by the Jazz.
Connie Hawkins. 114 games. His number was retired by the Sun.
Last edited by activeverb on Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21455
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | There was a lot of debate about Fisher when he retired as to should the Lakers retire the jersey and we got the clear criteria that if you make the HOF you go on the wall. Presumably there is some minimum amount of years played as well. Who are the longest tenured Lakers who made the HOF not to go on the wall in the last 30 years? Mitch Richmond? |
Here are the Hall of Famers who played at least 100 games for the Lakers without getting their numbers retired.
Vlade Divac. 535 games.
Bob McAdoo. 224 games. Key bench player for two ring teams.
Adrien Dantley. 114 games.
Connie Hawkins. 114 games. |
Wow, Vlade played a lot for us. That’s an interesting one. Maybe he was just too much of a rival during the three peat years. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | There was a lot of debate about Fisher when he retired as to should the Lakers retire the jersey and we got the clear criteria that if you make the HOF you go on the wall. Presumably there is some minimum amount of years played as well. Who are the longest tenured Lakers who made the HOF not to go on the wall in the last 30 years? Mitch Richmond? |
Here are the Hall of Famers who played at least 100 games for the Lakers without getting their numbers retired.
Vlade Divac. 535 games.
Bob McAdoo. 224 games. Key bench player for two ring teams.
Adrien Dantley. 114 games.
Connie Hawkins. 114 games. |
Wow, Vlade played a lot for us. That’s an interesting one. Maybe he was just too much of a rival during the three peat years. |
I think Vlade wasn't retired by the Lakers because his career here wasn't great. I don't think you can make a case for him deserving that honor.
He was really put in the Hall for international reasons, rather than for his NBA career.
The Kings retired him because he made an all-star team for them and he was a long-time GM for them. Pretty much the same reasons they retired Peja Stojakovic's number. |
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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Joined: 07 Feb 2020
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:30 am Post subject: |
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I would argue it's too early to judge the report card - who knows what happens this year for example, the team is on an upward trajectory and at the end of the day if both Lebron and AD are healthy when the playoffs start - anything could happen.
AD while injury prone is also only like 28 (?), he has potential for another 4-5+ productive seasons where he could win a title(s) or do great things, as he is proving right now he is literally MVP caliber when healthy. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | First, there is no criteria for retiring a number. There is only a tradition that the retiree be a Hall of Famer.
Some people are using Wilt as a criteria because he's a retiree who played the least number of games. But there's no reason a retiree can't have fewer games than Wilt played.
To me, Lebron is a no brainer. I think he's earned it. And there is no way the Lakers wouldn't retire him. Why wouldn't the Lakers want to honor a GOAT level player who led them to a ring?
I think there is a good chance that AD will be retired, but I hedge on that one because he's only played 170 games as a Laker so far, which is pretty slim. |
That's the only thing anyone can say about AD, he hasn't played enough. So far 4 seasons (least of any player up there) and even then he missed like half the games there. With more time that should be a no argument though |
I agree with that.
In addition, Lebron and AD were Jeanie and Rob's first big free agent signee and first big trade acquisition as owner and GM. It's in their self-interest to honor Lebron and AD in order to pat themselves on the back. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23128
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
title is "should we" not "will we", so it is different. both guys are going to be retired by us as long as AD doesn't miss 40 games each year. |
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LakerDynasty6.0
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Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4655
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: |
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is it June 2024 already?
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Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
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....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:15 am Post subject: |
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They both will without a doubt, but if it were up to me they need to win at least 2 championships, so 1 more...
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43984
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| Should really wait for the hall of fame induction, but i can understand if they decided to do it earlier, both were selected to the top 75 list |
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | I would argue it's too early to judge the report card - who knows what happens this year for example, the team is on an upward trajectory and at the end of the day if both Lebron and AD are healthy when the playoffs start - anything could happen.
AD while injury prone is also only like 28 (?), he has potential for another 4-5+ productive seasons where he could win a title(s) or do great things, as he is proving right now he is literally MVP caliber when healthy. |
he's 30 I thought.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 21455
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | I would argue it's too early to judge the report card - who knows what happens this year for example, the team is on an upward trajectory and at the end of the day if both Lebron and AD are healthy when the playoffs start - anything could happen.
AD while injury prone is also only like 28 (?), he has potential for another 4-5+ productive seasons where he could win a title(s) or do great things, as he is proving right now he is literally MVP caliber when healthy. |
he's 30 I thought. |
He turns 30 this coming Saturday |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Lebron jersey is definitely be on a rafter but AD has not done enough to deserve that as a Laker in my book. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
That wasn’t the question, it was should they. I say no but I think that retiring jersey numbers is stupid. Celebrate the player’s career in another way but don’t prohibit future players from wearing certain numbers.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | I would argue it's too early to judge the report card - who knows what happens this year for example, the team is on an upward trajectory and at the end of the day if both Lebron and AD are healthy when the playoffs start - anything could happen.
AD while injury prone is also only like 28 (?), he has potential for another 4-5+ productive seasons where he could win a title(s) or do great things, as he is proving right now he is literally MVP caliber when healthy. |
AD is 30
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32
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: |
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There is one exception.Technically Elgin Baylor didn't win a championship. He retired a few games into the 1971-72 season.
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Canonizing former Lakers enhances the brand value of the franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the calculus in roster building was trying to bring in players that could be added to the list. I mean, that would be smart. Once you reach the level the Lakers have, it's harder to build value in the brand.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 16702
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
That wasn’t the question, it was should they. I say no but I think that retiring jersey numbers is stupid. Celebrate the player’s career in another way but don’t prohibit future players from wearing certain numbers. |
disagree. retiring jerseys is a helluva flex by an organization. Banners are of course the ultimate but seeing the legends up there is dope.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | These responses are hilarious. Both guys have more than cleared the criteria. It’s fine to disagree that they should be retired. If you don’t think they will be you’re delusional. The idea that the Buss family (who worship stars) would take a pass on putting LeBron James’ jersey in the rafters for the crime of not winning MULTIPLE championships is real Fantasyland stuff. |
That wasn’t the question, it was should they. I say no but I think that retiring jersey numbers is stupid. Celebrate the player’s career in another way but don’t prohibit future players from wearing certain numbers. |
disagree. retiring jerseys is a helluva flex by an organization. Banners are of course the ultimate but seeing the legends up there is dope. |
To each his own I guess, I’m not typically impressed with shiny things. But I guess that those who actually attend games should have their opinions weigh more than mine.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 11:33 am Post subject: |
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They will get their numbers retired, but unless he wins this year, I'm not thrilled about LBJ going up there.
He did way more damage as LeGM than the benefit of the one title.
Now if AD stays five more years and play like he has on and off this season, I'll feel way more excited about him.
I mean LBJ was twice as good as Pau... but I felt actual emotion and tears when they retired Pau's number because I felt like he was a team first guy who benefited the franchise.
When LBJ broke Kareem's record, I was impressed because of how he did it so convincingly at his age, but I felt no emotion or loyalty to him.
So I think it will be the same when they retire his number. Great player, but unless something changes over the next three years where he just leaves the front office alone and we win a title or two... I'll probably have a pretty neutral reaction.
If he trades this current team for Kyrie, I will have a negative reaction. |
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Halflife
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Lebron jersey is definitely be on a rafter but AD has not done enough to deserve that as a Laker in my book. |
He did average 28/10 while shooting 57% from the field and 38% from three en route to a title. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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Joined: 17 Sep 2008
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Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Would love to see us having a much shorter debate on this with 2 titles under their belts. |
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nevitt_smrek
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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 2803
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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For AD, it should be suit and tie up in the rafters instead of a jersey?
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