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defense
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 Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Wait until we see what happens. Will we make the playoffs? If so, how far do we get. We need more games to see what these guys are worth.
Revisit this at the end of the season |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Discussed in Vasashi’s thread. They aren’t paying repeater tax to keep a play-in team together. |
This team is 7-3 I believe since the trade, and this is WITH LBJ/DLO missing substantial time. I don't know if you're just trolling or being disingenuous, but this team is much better than a play-in team if they started the season together.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I can't believe that after all your complaints about LBJ/AD missing games, you are pining for a guy who has played around 50% of his total games the past 4 seasons.
Are we going to repeat the mistakes of Russ again and be a top heavy team with no depth?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
Still waiting on you to finally admit that the Westbrook trade was a disaster.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| ThePageDude wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
They will almost certainly choose to pay taxes next year, repeater or not, the only question is *where* they will draw the line: 10m, 30m, 50m.
What you probably mean is that they most likely will draw the line at a lower tax-level compared to this year, especially if the team falters in the post-season, which means that they likely will not retain the more expensive free-agents because their higher salaries translate to exorbitant tax levels per the "repeater" penalty. Yes, I agree, that's quite likely. |
In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | Wait until we see what happens. Will we make the playoffs? If so, how far do we get. We need more games to see what these guys are worth.
Revisit this at the end of the season |
True. More generally, though, I would caution against anyone falling in love with this roster. A big part of the logic behind the recent moves appears to be maintaining trade assets that we can use next summer. Other than Lebron and Davis, I don't think anyone is a lock to be on the roster next season. For that matter, it is not a 100% lock that Lebron and Davis won't get moved, though I think that is highly unlikely.
As I've said elsewhere, if we're going to vote one guy off the island due to financial constraints, my pick would be Bamba. He's an okay player, but $10M is a lot for a non-starting center. I'm assuming that Walker is off the island no matter what.
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mad55557777
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Dlo extension dollar amount
Rui extension amount
These will decide the tax amount, it is not about the repeater tax, Jeanie has to pay if the amount is right. If she doesn’t, she might as well trade lebron and AD. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
They will almost certainly choose to pay taxes next year, repeater or not, the only question is *where* they will draw the line: 10m, 30m, 50m.
What you probably mean is that they most likely will draw the line at a lower tax-level compared to this year, especially if the team falters in the post-season, which means that they likely will not retain the more expensive free-agents because their higher salaries translate to exorbitant tax levels per the "repeater" penalty. Yes, I agree, that's quite likely. |
In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see. |
My suspicion is both of you are right.
I doubt the Lakers have drawn any hard lines yet. And I doubt anyone is sure what the lines will even be yet.
It probably won't be a black and white tax or no tax situation. It's more likely to be player a is worth the tax, but player b isn't worth the tax.
People on LG love the word bubble, so a way to put it is a few of our players are probably on the tax bubble right now |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Lebron
AD
Kyrie , Harden , another star and borderline star or worst case scenario DLo
Vando
Reaves
Rui
Christie
Schroeder or maybe Vincent or Naz Reid for MLE
Troy Brown or JaMychal Green for BAE
Gabriel
23 FRP
23 SRP
Vet minimum - Reddish, Svi etc
Vet minimum - Otto Porter or someone coming off injury
Vet minimum - Whatever we need that is bargain |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
They will almost certainly choose to pay taxes next year, repeater or not, the only question is *where* they will draw the line: 10m, 30m, 50m.
What you probably mean is that they most likely will draw the line at a lower tax-level compared to this year, especially if the team falters in the post-season, which means that they likely will not retain the more expensive free-agents because their higher salaries translate to exorbitant tax levels per the "repeater" penalty. Yes, I agree, that's quite likely. |
In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see. |
I suspect they give themselves an out as an option to limit spending.
If they conduct a transaction where a S&t’d player hits our books, they use the projected 11.6m ntpMLE and/or the use the projected 4.5m BAE, then they trigger the hard cap….meaning they are only allowed to spend up till the projected 172m cap apron, which would be roughly 7m above the projected 165m tax line. Repeater taxes on a team being 7m over is roughly 18m. Compare that to us paying roughly 37.4m as a nonrepeat tax offender this season.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
I can't believe that after all your complaints about LBJ/AD missing games, you are pining for a guy who has played around 50% of his total games the past 4 seasons.
Are we going to repeat the mistakes of Russ again and be a top heavy team with no depth? |
I believe he is a target. If you are going to die on the missing games hill then AD must be moved. Also whats DLO's history of missing games? I have no idea what our squad looks like next year but we know Kyrie is of interest to Bron and probably Rob and AD.
This year is the window. this thing needs to be drastically different next year IMHO.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
They will almost certainly choose to pay taxes next year, repeater or not, the only question is *where* they will draw the line: 10m, 30m, 50m.
What you probably mean is that they most likely will draw the line at a lower tax-level compared to this year, especially if the team falters in the post-season, which means that they likely will not retain the more expensive free-agents because their higher salaries translate to exorbitant tax levels per the "repeater" penalty. Yes, I agree, that's quite likely. |
In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see. |
I suspect they give themselves an out as an option to limit spending.
If they conduct a transaction where a S&t’d player hits our books, they use the projected 11.6m ntpMLE and/or the use the projected 4.5m BAE, then they trigger the hard cap….meaning they are only allowed to spend up till the projected 172m cap apron, which would be roughly 7m above the projected 165m tax line. Repeater taxes on a team being 7m over is roughly 18m. Compare that to us paying roughly 37.4m as a nonrepeat tax offender this season. |
Jennie would love the idea of getting hard cap so she minimize the tax penalty. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see. |
I suspect they give themselves an out as an option to limit spending.
If they conduct a transaction where a S&t’d player hits our books, they use the projected 11.6m ntpMLE and/or the use the projected 4.5m BAE, then they trigger the hard cap….meaning they are only allowed to spend up till the projected 172m cap apron, which would be roughly 7m above the projected 165m tax line. Repeater taxes on a team being 7m over is roughly 18m. Compare that to us paying roughly 37.4m as a nonrepeat tax offender this season. |
Right, but we don't even know what the tax threshold will be. At some point, you and Larry and the gang are going to have a lot to digest.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Halflife wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
I can't believe that after all your complaints about LBJ/AD missing games, you are pining for a guy who has played around 50% of his total games the past 4 seasons.
Are we going to repeat the mistakes of Russ again and be a top heavy team with no depth? |
I believe he is a target. If you are going to die on the missing games hill then AD must be moved. Also whats DLO's history of missing games? I have no idea what our squad looks like next year but we know Kyrie is of interest to Bron and probably Rob and AD.
This year is the window. this thing needs to be drastically different next year IMHO. |
To get Ky you will have to PAY him. He's not taking the 30m or so in cap space we could carve out. So then you'd have to S&T for him, which hard caps us. Which means we will lose a lot of the depth we have to get a talented player who plays in about 1/2 of his games (actually less games than LBJ/AD).
That's the help? I'm sure you'll be complaining about Ky's availability in no time.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I'd actually rather have James Harden over Ky if you're S&T/hard capping yourself.
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CRoost
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
I can't believe that after all your complaints about LBJ/AD missing games, you are pining for a guy who has played around 50% of his total games the past 4 seasons.
Are we going to repeat the mistakes of Russ again and be a top heavy team with no depth? |
I believe he is a target. If you are going to die on the missing games hill then AD must be moved. Also whats DLO's history of missing games? I have no idea what our squad looks like next year but we know Kyrie is of interest to Bron and probably Rob and AD.
This year is the window. this thing needs to be drastically different next year IMHO. |
To get Ky you will have to PAY him. He's not taking the 30m or so in cap space we could carve out. So then you'd have to S&T for him, which hard caps us. Which means we will lose a lot of the depth we have to get a talented player who plays in about 1/2 of his games (actually less games than LBJ/AD).
That's the help? I'm sure you'll be complaining about Ky's availability in no time. |
Lol to keep that depth, Jennie has to fork over a hundred million on tax hit. I rather have a star, keep Vando , Reaves and take the hard cap than pick up options for Beasley and Bamba and overpay DLo. |
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Halflife
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Halflife wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
I can't believe that after all your complaints about LBJ/AD missing games, you are pining for a guy who has played around 50% of his total games the past 4 seasons.
Are we going to repeat the mistakes of Russ again and be a top heavy team with no depth? |
I believe he is a target. If you are going to die on the missing games hill then AD must be moved. Also whats DLO's history of missing games? I have no idea what our squad looks like next year but we know Kyrie is of interest to Bron and probably Rob and AD.
This year is the window. this thing needs to be drastically different next year IMHO. |
To get Ky you will have to PAY him. He's not taking the 30m or so in cap space we could carve out. So then you'd have to S&T for him, which hard caps us. Which means we will lose a lot of the depth we have to get a talented player who plays in about 1/2 of his games (actually less games than LBJ/AD).
That's the help? I'm sure you'll be complaining about Ky's availability in no time. |
we don't know what Kyrie will demand in free agency if Mark pays him great, but I think he would be open to parting ways with Mavs. Also, wasn't this a question/opinion regarding next year's roster?
I do know if we run everything back we can most likely expect:
Bron is broken. No denying it.
AD hasn't played many games. Could change but expecting it to is bad business.
DLo. I have no idea if he's injury prone. we do know this is his 5th stop by 26 so that's not an ideal look for such a young guy.
Kyrie we know Bron wanted or at least it was implied. we know Kyrie and AD are tight.
He is certainly a better fit than other "stars".
I don't know what the team looks like next year.
Assuming AD stays healthy and continues to play well, IMHO he should be moved, his value will be raised. We are stuck with bron. S&T DLO.
Keep
Vandy
reaves
brown
Rui
I like beasley at right dollar
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:18 am Post subject: |
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we are FINALLY back to some semblance of depth we had during the title run. probably MORE DEEP. shows you CAN NOT have 3 star players and a bunch of guys form the local Y.
SCREW KYRIE! plus, NO MORE MIDGETS! i vote for DLo... but dude needs to toughen up. 6-7 games for a turned ankle? pop some Advil and get back in there. LOL!
DLo is who we need in the back court. need height and shooting... like when we had danny and KCP.
the BIG QUESTION as always is can AD and Bron stay healthy? for that to happen, we need to reduce their minutes. with Rui, Vando, Troy... we can give Bron and AD some breaks. that's the pitch for Rui to come back. Bron is getting up there in age. you will get your minutes. time to shine son!
is the repeater tax permanent once you pay it? or can we trade our way out of it if this team doesn't live up to expectations next year? we currently have a lot of reasonable contracts we could trade for pics and cash?
i'd keep everyone except for lonnie, davon... malik has a team option for next year. how does that work? give him $16.5M or let him walk? OR can we negotiate a lower salary? he'll NEVER get $16.5M on the open market IMHO. that was an overpay. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | | i'd keep everyone except for lonnie, davon... malik has a team option for next year. how does that work? give him $16.5M or let him walk? OR can we negotiate a lower salary? he'll NEVER get $16.5M on the open market IMHO. that was an overpay. |
You can never be confident about what a player like Beasley would get on the open market. Is he worth $16.5M? Not in my opinion. Will some team offer him that much, or something close? It's very possible.
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ThePageDude wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Still waiting on that list of repeater tax teams. |
They will almost certainly choose to pay taxes next year, repeater or not, the only question is *where* they will draw the line: 10m, 30m, 50m.
What you probably mean is that they most likely will draw the line at a lower tax-level compared to this year, especially if the team falters in the post-season, which means that they likely will not retain the more expensive free-agents because their higher salaries translate to exorbitant tax levels per the "repeater" penalty. Yes, I agree, that's quite likely. |
In addition, it sounds like the tax brackets will change in the new CBA. It is impossible to say what the repeater tax will look like next year for this roster. As I understand it from the media reports (which are not specific), the concept seems to be making easier for teams to go a little bit over the tax line, while making it more punitive for teams that go far over the tax line. There also appears to be some discussion about raising the tax threshold relatively to how it is calculated now. We shall see. |
I suspect they give themselves an out as an option to limit spending.
If they conduct a transaction where a S&t’d player hits our books, they use the projected 11.6m ntpMLE and/or the use the projected 4.5m BAE, then they trigger the hard cap….meaning they are only allowed to spend up till the projected 172m cap apron, which would be roughly 7m above the projected 165m tax line. Repeater taxes on a team being 7m over is roughly 18m. Compare that to us paying roughly 37.4m as a nonrepeat tax offender this season. |
Jennie would love the idea of getting hard cap so she minimize the tax penalty. |
More teams hard capped (11) than paid luxury tax (9) this season. Teams actually prefer the hard cap. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5125
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'd actually rather have James Harden over Ky if you're S&T/hard capping yourself. |
Yes, in order of rank you'd want
Deep, balanced team with our draft picks and role players like we have right now
Three star team with LBJ/AD/Harden and pray for minimum players who play like Hall of Famers like we got from Rondo and Dwight in 2020
Three star team with LBJ/AD/Kyrie with minimum players who play like Hall of Famers like we got from Rondo and Dwight in 2020
Hint: (We can't sign an acceptable center right now... yet somehow next year we are going to find these people?) |
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LakerSD
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miggz23
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | https://twitter.com/realswishlist/status/1624211044431265792?s=46&t=LZLzjVPmosqPbICOlCZLnQ |
DLO/Rui/Beasley/Bamba contracts are the key here… If they can resign those guys for cheaper than whats projected on that list might save Jeanie some big $$$ |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| $10 million isn’t bad to retain Austin. It’s probably not popular to spend that kind of money on a bench player, but he’s kind of been the sixth man and $7 million is what sixth men command on the market. I don’t think Rui at $13 million is worth it. I know Malik and Rui are the shooters, but that’s like $30 million tied up in shooters. I think they keep one or the other, not both. If they lose Malik because of the repeater tax, then keep Rui, but not at $13 million. I already think Dangelo is gone, asking him to take a paycut to stay is laughable. The outlook isn’t too bad, even after the cuts. It’s better than the last three years of only having the veteran minimum to build a roster, right? High first round pick and cap space. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | $10 million isn’t bad to retain Austin. It’s probably not popular to spend that kind of money on a bench player, but he’s kind of been the sixth man and $7 million is what sixth men command on the market. I don’t think Rui at $13 million is worth it. I know Malik and Rui are the shooters, but that’s like $30 million tied up in shooters. I think they keep one or the other, not both. If they lose Malik because of the repeater tax, then keep Rui, but not at $13 million. I already think Dangelo is gone, asking him to take a paycut to stay is laughable. The outlook isn’t too bad, even after the cuts. It’s better than the last three years of only having the veteran minimum to build a roster, right? High first round pick and cap space. |
Top of the order 6th men make a LOT more than 7 million my dude. That's pre-2016 numbers.
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