DeAngelo or Kyrie or DS
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Who do you want as the Laker starting PG?
Dennis Schröder
11%
 11%  [ 12 ]
DeAngelo Russell
70%
 70%  [ 75 ]
Kyrie Irving
17%
 17%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 106

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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:10 am    Post subject:

kfkilla wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
DLo vs. Kyrie this season

I've always said Kyrie is the better player but the difference isn't this huge chasm like some of you have painted.

Their eFG is only a percentage point difference.

DLo assists at about the same rate.

Oddly Kyrie rebounds much better.

If you have a choice between a sane player who will more likely show up for the next three or four years plus the cap space to keep a few more players and draft picks the choice is obvious.


The advanced stats there are illuminating. It’s hard to not have recency bias watching Kyrie go ballistic but he isn’t that good all the time. Just like Dlo is not as bad as he looked the last couple and not as insanely good as he looked the first couple when he got back. Thanks for that!


I think DLo choked a little because he knew comparisons were going to be drawn and it's hard not to press when Kyrie is shooting like that.

As I said, Kyrie is clearly more skilled but it's better to have DLo and two extra rotation players even before you get into Kyrie's mental issues and potential lack of availability.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:39 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
kfkilla wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
DLo vs. Kyrie this season

I've always said Kyrie is the better player but the difference isn't this huge chasm like some of you have painted.

Their eFG is only a percentage point difference.

DLo assists at about the same rate.

Oddly Kyrie rebounds much better.

If you have a choice between a sane player who will more likely show up for the next three or four years plus the cap space to keep a few more players and draft picks the choice is obvious.


The advanced stats there are illuminating. It’s hard to not have recency bias watching Kyrie go ballistic but he isn’t that good all the time. Just like Dlo is not as bad as he looked the last couple and not as insanely good as he looked the first couple when he got back. Thanks for that!


I think DLo choked a little because he knew comparisons were going to be drawn and it's hard not to press when Kyrie is shooting like that.

As I said, Kyrie is clearly more skilled but it's better to have DLo and two extra rotation players even before you get into Kyrie's mental issues and potential lack of availability.


If I knew for a fact Kyrie would come here going all out with his main focus being Basketball at least during the Season it would be a much tougher decision since skill wise he's right up there with the elite of the elite on top of being a great crunch time player as well.

That's obviously all pure fantasy though imo. On top of all the drama he brings to a Franchise he is also injury prone and without crunching the numbers i'm pretty sure he's missed more games then Bron and AD has over the last 4 years or very close to it.

We have two superstars that are monumental injury question marks and there are really some people who want to not only sign a third injury question mark with a maxed out salary but he also is a question mark of how he could feel mentally at any point which will also have him missing games and causing the black cloud of drama across our franchise once again while gutting nearly every bit of depth we finally have?

It's easy to just watch the one game and go with Kyrie but if he's so damn good why have the Mavs been so bad since attaining him even well before Luka went down? They lost there depth and defense in the trade which many just kind of ignore but that team has no real chance of getting out of the West even at full strength imo.

I go with DLo and extra depth 10/10 times for our specific situation especially. If Kyrie was 24-26 it would be a completely different discussion but not sure how you could count on him suddenly playing way more games as he only gets older now. I wouldn't be shocked to now see Dlo have several good/great games in a row while the Mavs lose a few in a row and people fully flip flop in DLo's favor again. We unfortunately got to see the motivated, on fire version of Kyrie.. This is not the same player the Mavs see every game to say the least.

The loss was brutal no doubt but we'll be just fine as long as Bron comes back healthy and ready to go while DLo and AD don't suffer anything serious in the meantime.

Also keep in mind the Mavs aren't going to just simply gift wrap him to us either.. Cuban will likely demand some solid assets to even think about agreeing to it imo. Then there's the fact we're pretty much stuck with the merry minimums to fill out the rest of the roster who will be vital since all 3 of our max guys are as far from iron men at this stage of there careers as it gets. With DLo and depth we would have substantially more options to make smaller tweaks or trades at any point.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:21 pm    Post subject:

hype wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
kfkilla wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
DLo vs. Kyrie this season

I've always said Kyrie is the better player but the difference isn't this huge chasm like some of you have painted.

Their eFG is only a percentage point difference.

DLo assists at about the same rate.

Oddly Kyrie rebounds much better.

If you have a choice between a sane player who will more likely show up for the next three or four years plus the cap space to keep a few more players and draft picks the choice is obvious.


The advanced stats there are illuminating. It’s hard to not have recency bias watching Kyrie go ballistic but he isn’t that good all the time. Just like Dlo is not as bad as he looked the last couple and not as insanely good as he looked the first couple when he got back. Thanks for that!


I think DLo choked a little because he knew comparisons were going to be drawn and it's hard not to press when Kyrie is shooting like that.

As I said, Kyrie is clearly more skilled but it's better to have DLo and two extra rotation players even before you get into Kyrie's mental issues and potential lack of availability.


If I knew for a fact Kyrie would come here going all out with his main focus being Basketball at least during the Season it would be a much tougher decision since skill wise he's right up there with the elite of the elite on top of being a great crunch time player as well.

That's obviously all pure fantasy though imo. On top of all the drama he brings to a Franchise he is also injury prone and without crunching the numbers i'm pretty sure he's missed more games then Bron and AD has over the last 4 years or very close to it.

We have two superstars that are monumental injury question marks and there are really some people who want to not only sign a third injury question mark with a maxed out salary but he also is a question mark of how he could feel mentally at any point which will also have him missing games and causing the black cloud of drama across our franchise once again while gutting nearly every bit of depth we finally have?

It's easy to just watch the one game and go with Kyrie but if he's so damn good why have the Mavs been so bad since attaining him even well before Luka went down? They lost there depth and defense in the trade which many just kind of ignore but that team has no real chance of getting out of the West even at full strength imo.

I go with DLo and extra depth 10/10 times for our specific situation especially. If Kyrie was 24-26 it would be a completely different discussion but not sure how you could count on him suddenly playing way more games as he only gets older now. I wouldn't be shocked to now see Dlo have several good/great games in a row while the Mavs lose a few in a row and people fully flip flop in DLo's favor again. We unfortunately got to see the motivated, on fire version of Kyrie.. This is not the same player the Mavs see every game to say the least.

The loss was brutal no doubt but we'll be just fine as long as Bron comes back healthy and ready to go while DLo and AD don't suffer anything serious in the meantime.

Also keep in mind the Mavs aren't going to just simply gift wrap him to us either.. Cuban will likely demand some solid assets to even think about agreeing to it imo. Then there's the fact we're pretty much stuck with the merry minimums to fill out the rest of the roster who will be vital since all 3 of our max guys are as far from iron men at this stage of there careers as it gets. With DLo and depth we would have substantially more options to make smaller tweaks or trades at any point.


Agree with this. Kyrie's a powder keg and an emotional vampire in the locker room
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:44 am    Post subject:

Ky is easily the better player in a vacuum. But as we know, it's more complicated than that. The S&T/hard cap situation, going back to a busted 3 max system with 3 injury prone players, is not ideal.

I'm looking forward to DLo/Austin being our backcourt of the future.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:19 pm    Post subject:

I'm in the minority here, but I like Dennis as our starter. He's durable, high IQ, and a competent defender. I like DLo too, but I'm not sure about his durability. We already have AD and Lebron as chronically injured, we don't need our 3rd star the same.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:20 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
I'm in the minority here, but I like Dennis as our starter. He's durable, high IQ, and a competent defender. I like DLo too, but I'm not sure about his durability. We already have AD and Lebron as chronically injured, we don't need our 3rd star the same.


Dennis isn't high IQ
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:59 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ky is easily the better player in a vacuum. But as we know, it's more complicated than that. The S&T/hard cap situation, going back to a busted 3 max system with 3 injury prone players, is not ideal.

I'm looking forward to DLo/Austin being our backcourt of the future.


I’ll take Ky and Max.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:35 am    Post subject:

Just what we need. Spending over 30 plus for 2 guys who are unreliable. Pick your poison.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:13 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
troy wrote:
I'm in the minority here, but I like Dennis as our starter. He's durable, high IQ, and a competent defender. I like DLo too, but I'm not sure about his durability. We already have AD and Lebron as chronically injured, we don't need our 3rd star the same.


Dennis isn't high IQ


I've seen him draw fouls, position himself for charges, make quality passes. He seems to know the game very well and he's hit some big shots recently. I don't consider DLo a smart player, but he's a competent shooter. Dennis is the more complete point guard. Kyrie is a hot mess and we need to stay far away from that guy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:16 am    Post subject:

Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:25 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.


I think it's most likely:

KY: seeking 47-48m max. Cost is hard cap, likely losing 2-3 depth pieces, and a FRP (2023).

DLO: seeking 30m

Dennis: TPMLE
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:31 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
defense wrote:
Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.


I think it's most likely:

KY: seeking 47-48m max. Cost is hard cap, likely losing 2-3 depth pieces, and a FRP (2023).

DLO: seeking 30m

Dennis: TPMLE

maybe cuban pays Kyrie but no one is offering KI that. he will either be humbled or wont play.

If DLO is 30m I can see a S&T. Kyrie is not a max guy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:49 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
defense wrote:
Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.


I think it's most likely:

KY: seeking 47-48m max. Cost is hard cap, likely losing 2-3 depth pieces, and a FRP (2023).

DLO: seeking 30m

Dennis: TPMLE


At those prices I take Schroodles.

*ducks to avoid the hate*
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:54 am    Post subject:

DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 8:54 am    Post subject:

The way I see it, you can’t let any of our key FAs walk for nothing. If the plan is that they aren’t part of our future core heading forward, you either negotiate S&ts with them or re-up them (hopefully on sub-max team friendly deals) so that we can trade them for another day (ie S&t2bmade) as assets with appeal from other teams. Hopefully our FO doesn’t slip this up
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:00 am    Post subject:

My initial thought is Kyrie, but if it's at the sacrifice of our depth, then I think you have to go D lo...DS is great off the bench, but I wouldn't want him as our primary PG
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:19 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
defense wrote:
Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.


I think it's most likely:

KY: seeking 47-48m max. Cost is hard cap, likely losing 2-3 depth pieces, and a FRP (2023).

DLO: seeking 30m

Dennis: TPMLE


At those prices I take Schroodles.

*ducks to avoid the hate*


Excellent post. Both funny and true.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:21 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
defense wrote:
Not a legit poll until you attach salaries to the players.


I think it's most likely:

KY: seeking 47-48m max. Cost is hard cap, likely losing 2-3 depth pieces, and a FRP (2023).

DLO: seeking 30m

Dennis: TPMLE

maybe cuban pays Kyrie but no one is offering KI that. he will either be humbled or wont play.

If DLO is 30m I can see a S&T. Kyrie is not a max guy.


The man is stubborn. Nets offered him reportedly way above $35m and he said no. No way KY takes close to what DLO is making. And no guarantee DLO wants to join the Mavs or Mavs want to pay DLO that much.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 9:22 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:08 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:17 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.


If you actually feel that way and actually want him, a 22-25m/year deal will be laughed out of the room. You're dealing with CAA's Aaron Mintz here. Come with an actual FMV level offer (and Mintz knows that the Lakers have spent a 2027 FRP as part of the deal and can't get anywhere near a replacement for DLO if he leaves).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:32 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.


DLo is not dynamic enough to really carry a team especially when it matters. If you expect him to imposed his will , then you prepare him to fail because he does not have physical tools to be that kinda player. What we need from him is provide spacing and set up AD as a secondary playmaker. I believed 25 million is a good value but if Harden or Kyrie takes a paycut and take that $30 million , we should do that in a heartbeat.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:35 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.


DLo is not dynamic enough to really carry a team especially when it matters. If you expect him to imposed his will , then you prepare him to fail because he does not have physical tools to be that kinda player. What we need from him is provide spacing and set up AD as a secondary playmaker. I believed 25 million is a good value but if Harden or Kyrie takes a paycut and take that $30 million , we should do that in a heartbeat.


If you think Harden/Ky will take $30m, hope to break it to you, you have very little feel for the market. Harden took a PAYCUT so the 76ers could sign Tucker. You think he's taking another paycut? Absolutely not. You know how much he makes now in his paycut year? $33m.

$25m for DLO is still too low. Aaron Mintz is going to have a field day with the Lakers on this one. Lakers can't let DLO go b/c they can't replace him. And if you're dreaming of a S&T situation, guess what, DLO has to agree to it. Mintz is going to be a tough nut to crack.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:36 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.


If you actually feel that way and actually want him, a 22-25m/year deal will be laughed out of the room. You're dealing with CAA's Aaron Mintz here. Come with an actual FMV level offer (and Mintz knows that the Lakers have spent a 2027 FRP as part of the deal and can't get anywhere near a replacement for DLO if he leaves).

let someone offer him a big deal and maybe we will be given an opportunity to match. i personally don't think he will get one. maybe. By who? We can caveat the hell out of why he hasn't stuck on a team but that is his reality. I know everyone blew off when windhorst said not everyone likes playing with DLO ( likes him). I don't see any teams that would help him like the lakers.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 10:38 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DLO at 20m is probably the way to go. I would let the market set his price. Go find someone and we will match if right. He has been available since summer and no one jumped.


That's not even FMV range. That's a few million more than Beasley's 16.5m option.

we know beasely is an overpay. If it were me I would offer dlo 22-25m with a team option on the final. I would rather him than Bron on this team. Team is way more fluid, he just has never shown that he can be that lead PG who elevates team.


If you actually feel that way and actually want him, a 22-25m/year deal will be laughed out of the room. You're dealing with CAA's Aaron Mintz here. Come with an actual FMV level offer (and Mintz knows that the Lakers have spent a 2027 FRP as part of the deal and can't get anywhere near a replacement for DLO if he leaves).

let someone offer him a big deal and maybe we will be given an opportunity to match. i personally don't think he will get one. maybe. By who? We can caveat the hell out of why he hasn't stuck on a team but that is his reality. I know everyone blew off when windhorst said not everyone likes playing with DLO ( likes him). I don't see any teams that would help him like the lakers.


Match? No, it doesn't work that way. DLO is a UFA. He could leave us for nothing and that's disastrous. If you don't know, you should google Lakers/Aaron Mintz + CAA. That stuff goes back a long way and I doubt they will throw us a bone. This could go south very quickly and the Lakers would be so screwed if they play around with this.
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