If they didn't cash in their young assets for superstars they wouldn't be the Lakers. It's just inherent to them. It has been both a blessing and a curse. Be thankful we aren't the Knicks. At least their current FO has adapted. But you figure Dolan can only help himself for so long.
The picks we wasted on letting Dennis walk, the 2 FRPs used to get/dump Russ. And now talks of using our 17th and/or the 29 FRP again? Ugh.
AD, you do it for that level of talent IMO with no hesitation. The others, yikes. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo .
You can chase your tail forever on this one.
Imaging alternative realities that are better than the present is easy. It's virtually impossible to compete with an alternative reality where everything works out perfectly.
That's why woulda-coulda-shoulda accomplishments aren't worth anything -- everyone has a ton of them.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo .
You can chase your tail forever on this one.
Imaging alternative realities that are better than the present is easy. It's virtually impossible to compete with an alternative reality where everything works out perfectly.
That's why woulda-coulda-shoulda accomplishments aren't worth anything -- everyone has a ton of them.
You're the one who keeps playing devil's advocate ad infinitum without ever taking a position of your own.
Why don't you tell us what you'd like to see our lineup be next year instead of picking apart everyone else's ideas?
It would be a refreshing change.
Otherwise you are just another chatbot sh*t stirrer type like Gadget.
I may disagree with Yinoma but at least he stands for something.
You just stand for being a contrarian.
But maybe you will surprise us and tell us what you hope the roster will look like in October.
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
if you guarantee a world series ring this year for the Dodgers, they would trade for Ohtani right now.
since the AD deal happened, we already knew what happened.
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
Sure...but you also said that since we recouped our depth with the deadline deals you were content. Feels a bit like revisionist history. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Why don't you tell us what you'd like to see our lineup be next year instead of picking apart everyone else's ideas?
I don't have any interest in spending my time making up fantasy trade ideas that are unlikely to happen. If that's your thing, go for it.
You don't have any interest because you never say what you want because then no one can criticize your position.
You just pick apart what others say.
Vasashi, Yinoma, MJST, Dr. Laker... many of the long time regulars have a point of view on what they want. I may disagree with them, but I respect they have a real position.
You could post another 30,000 times I'd still have zero idea of what you want our team to be.
It's your right to post however you want... but I can't take seriously anyone who just shoots down others opinions without providing any position of their own.
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
if you guarantee a world series ring this year for the Dodgers, they would trade for Ohtani right now.
since the AD deal happened, we already knew what happened.
I love Ohtani but it would be a mistake to overpay for him and kill what's left of their depth
They like the Lakers have cleared a lot of assets to make room for his 550 million 600 million dollar contract.
It would be a terrible error to get rid of even more young talent.
And sure they might fluke a title anyway if they did that but likely they turn into the Angels north.
In terms of an overpay, we've beaten that topic to death many times. No need to rehash that and we can agree to disagree.
Otherwise, I would certainly bet that BI and DG would have come in more handy against Denver. What I wouldn't bet on is whether they'd even still be on the team at this point. What I also wouldn't bet on is that many of the other positive contributors currently on the team would still be on your hypothetical team or even allowed to grow in their roles.
As annoying as the contrarian takes can be, it is also reasonable to state that there is no way to predict how they team would be constructed had your alternate timeline happened. It's not simply a matter of swapping DLO for BI and DG. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Why don't you tell us what you'd like to see our lineup be next year instead of picking apart everyone else's ideas?
I don't have any interest in spending my time making up fantasy trade ideas that are unlikely to happen. If that's your thing, go for it.
To be fair, I can see his point. Maybe not make up trades but at least insights on how you'd like to see the team constructed, especially if you spend as much time in the FA/trade thread as you do. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
In terms of an overpay, we've beaten that topic to death many times. No need to rehash that and we can agree to disagree.
Otherwise, I would certainly bet that BI and DG would have come in more handy against Denver. What I wouldn't bet on is whether they'd even still be on the team at this point. What I also wouldn't bet on is that many of the other positive contributors currently on the team would still be on your hypothetical team or even allowed to grow in their roles.
As annoying as the contrarian takes can be, it is also reasonable to state that there is no way to predict how they team would be constructed had your alternate timeline happened. It's not simply a matter of swapping DLO for BI and DG.
GNG I already said I'm willing to let this debate lie, but people other than me keep bumping it.
As long as they keep bumping it, I will throw in my two cents.
I feel like some here have a masochistic streak because they say they are done with the topic and that it has been beaten to death (I agree with you it has) but still keep asking for more debate.
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
if you guarantee a world series ring this year for the Dodgers, they would trade for Ohtani right now.
since the AD deal happened, we already knew what happened.
I love Ohtani but it would be a mistake to overpay for him and kill what's left of their depth
They like the Lakers have cleared a lot of assets to make room for his 550 million 600 million dollar contract.
It would be a terrible error to get rid of even more young talent.
And sure they might fluke a title anyway if they did that but likely they turn into the Angels north.
again, if you guarantee them a ring this year, they will trade for him.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35169 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 1:15 pm Post subject:
BILBJH wrote:
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
AD is below Dwight Howard legacy wise IMO. Dwight carried a team with Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Jameer Nelson as his co-stars to the finals, beating LeBron’s 66 win Cavalier team in the process. And if not for Courtney Lee blowing a wide open layup in game 1 and Derek Fisher’s clutch three pointers in game 4, he probably beats Kobe and Pau too. Compare that to the Pelicans AD, who were lucky to get out of the first round once.
If you gave Lakers LeBron Orlando Dwight instead of AD, we would have won multiple championships instead of just one. The question to me is if AD is also below Pau legacy wise. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
1 championship run, 1 WCF run, and 2 injury-riddled seasons.
At the end of the day, even if the deal wasn't as successful as we'd all hoped, it produced a championship and another incredibly fun playoff run. And AD's Laker tenure isn't over presumably, so we have more years to judge the success level of the AD deal.
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 18412 Location: The Garden Island
Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 2:54 pm Post subject:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
More than one thing can be true at the same time:
1. Jeanie, Rambii and Rob don’t hold a candle to Jerry Buss and Jerry West.
2. The NBA has made it much harder over the last 20 years to build a dynasty. Mostly because of the Lakers’ success from 2000-2010, the small market owners have teamed up to handicap big market teams, with each new CBA becoming less and less favorable to teams like the Lakers.
3. There are a good number of entitled Laker fans.
The Lakers have won 1 title in the last 13 years.
Yet we have some the fans who believe anything less than 5 titles every decade is a failure, because that's what a group of Lakers who were around before they were born accomplished.
And the funny thing is some of those fans who are angry about all the imaginary titles they think they should have gotten in the last 13 years dismiss the one real title as a lucky event we didn't deserve.
There is nothing as entitled as a Lakers fan.
I think that's too harsh. It's not just that we've won one title in the last 13 years. It's also that we haven't even been a contender for most of those years. We can argue about what it means to be a "contender," but this year was only the second time we've made the conference finals during that stretch, and we missed the playoffs entirely seven times. Despite the title from the bubble, this has been the worst overall stretch in the entire history of the franchise in terms of competitiveness. The situation would feel very different if we were in the hunt most seasons, even if we won only the one title.
I agree with BSH that the new CBAs have made our task more difficult. But we haven't adapted well to the realities of the current era. The Warriors had a dynasty of sorts, while the Celtics have been consistently competitive. We have floundered most of the time. I hold out hope that Jeanie and the front office are learning from their errors and that we will have an intelligent plan going forward.
I'll believe Jeanie has learned from her errors when the Rambii and Rob are no longer running things and have been replaced by someone like Masai or Presti.
Until Jeanie stops surrounding herself with people she is "comfortable" with and actually hires the best of the best, the Lakers will continue to muddle along.
Joined: 15 Jul 2009 Posts: 18412 Location: The Garden Island
Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 3:04 pm Post subject:
My biggest criticism of AD is the same one I have of Lebron:
How these guys let Westbrick talk them into the idea that he'd be a great fit next to them is beyond me. I still can't believe they pushed to make that deal.
And with no one in the FO with real gravitas (West, Masai, Presti), the Lakers rolled over and went along with it.
Rob had the right idea. Kuz + Trez for Buddy and run it back with KCP, AC, etc.
How different does this series look if the Lakers have KCP instead of Denver ?
1 championship run, 1 WCF run, and 2 injury-riddled seasons.
At the end of the day, even if the deal wasn't as successful as we'd all hoped, it produced a championship and another incredibly fun playoff run. And AD's Laker tenure isn't over presumably, so we have more years to judge the success level of the AD deal.
Being swept is a disappointment under most circumstances, but I agree with the main point- AD's tenure resulted in a championship. A championship they would not have won with the young core. Just look at how the Celtics are struggling postseason after postseason, despite so many promising young players and draft picks. Nothing is guaranteed. Lakers cashed in already, and anything else from this point onwards is gravy. Wouldn't even care if Lebron bolts. I'm so done with him. AD was the prime reason for their success. If he goes, Lakers are certain to rebuild.
But it is also true Lakers had some key blunders along the way, with the Westbrook trade being the main one. It seems Rob has learned from it. He gave Lebron and Klutch too much sway in the organization. It is my hope he has a zero tolerance policy towards anyone trying to undermine him. If LeGm wants to make personnel decisions, he can do it on another team.
Not holding on to one of BroLo or Zu was also costly, especially in terms of defensive relief for AD. Vando made up for some of it, but he was close to unplayable in the playoffs.
The focus will be on Rui, AR, Christie, #17 and possibly DLo next season. That is the "young" core the Lakers are stuck with, for better or for worse. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
AD is below Dwight Howard legacy wise IMO. Dwight carried a team with Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Jameer Nelson as his co-stars to the finals, beating LeBron’s 66 win Cavalier team in the process. And if not for Courtney Lee blowing a wide open layup in game 1 and Derek Fisher’s clutch three pointers in game 4, he probably beats Kobe and Pau too. Compare that to the Pelicans AD, who were lucky to get out of the first round once.
If you gave Lakers LeBron Orlando Dwight instead of AD, we would have won multiple championships instead of just one. The question to me is if AD is also below Pau legacy wise.
We gave Kobe & Pau Orlando Dwight and got swept in the 1st round. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35169 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri May 26, 2023 7:59 pm Post subject:
Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
AD is below Dwight Howard legacy wise IMO. Dwight carried a team with Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Jameer Nelson as his co-stars to the finals, beating LeBron’s 66 win Cavalier team in the process. And if not for Courtney Lee blowing a wide open layup in game 1 and Derek Fisher’s clutch three pointers in game 4, he probably beats Kobe and Pau too. Compare that to the Pelicans AD, who were lucky to get out of the first round once.
If you gave Lakers LeBron Orlando Dwight instead of AD, we would have won multiple championships instead of just one. The question to me is if AD is also below Pau legacy wise.
We gave Kobe & Pau Orlando Dwight and got swept in the 1st round.
No, that was Dwight with a ruined back and shoulders, not Orlando Dwight. And it wasn’t the same Pau either. And Kobe tore his Achilles— wouldn’t have been a sweep otherwise. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
We gave Kobe & Pau Orlando Dwight and got swept in the 1st round.
No, that was Dwight with a ruined back and shoulders, not Orlando Dwight. And it wasn’t the same Pau either. And Kobe tore his Achilles— wouldn’t have been a sweep otherwise.
All of that is true. Howard was still putting up good counting numbers, but he was diminished from his heyday in Orlando. Gasol was hurt and was beginning the downside of his career. And of course Kobe got hurt. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Right now the Dodgers are at a similar crossroads.
They have the inside track on signing Ohtani, and some people believe they should trade for him no matter what the price.
Others believe the should wait and sign him outright so they can preserve all their young assets like James Outman, Will Smith etc.
I always have respected Davis but he never won anything even with Jrue.
All I said was that it was better to wait so we'd have the best of both worlds.
Maybe we have LBJ, AD, BI, and Garland instead of LBJ, AD, and DLo
Garland had a pretty rocky playoffs.
But he still scored 21, 23, 10, 32, 17 in his first series
Ingram averaged 27 points in his last 20 games almost singlehandedly dragging the Pelicans to the playoffs without Zion.
Something tells me either would be getting more than six points against the Nuggets.
Would have been nice to have one of those players to help LBJ or AD
So sure, keep telling yourself overpays don't matter. They do.
if you guarantee a world series ring this year for the Dodgers, they would trade for Ohtani right now.
since the AD deal happened, we already knew what happened.
Yep, he said the Lakers "corrected the problem now" just a few weeks ago, as he confessed that the Lakers had rebuilt the depth of the roster. Yet after 4 games against Denver, he moves the goalposts again.
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