Yet we have some the fans who believe anything less than 5 titles every decade is a failure, because that's what a group of Lakers who were around before they were born accomplished.
And the funny thing is some of those fans who are angry about all the imaginary titles they think they should have gotten in the last 13 years dismiss the one real title as a lucky event we didn't deserve.
There is nothing as entitled as a Lakers fan.
The Lakers made a lot of bad moves since the 2010 title. It's no wonder they won only 1 title in 13 years.
1) Giving Kobe the 2-year extension in November 2013 that kept him for two more years (2014-15, 2015-16). He just suffered his achilles heel injury 6 months ago. Considering his age and the injury, the odds of him coming back as a prime Kobe was not good. It wasted two years in the Lakers rebuild. By not cutting Kobe in an "amnesty" move, it practically drove Dwight away as a FA. So, keeping Kobe was a business move, not a basketball move.
2) Cutting Julius Randall and got nothing in return. Among the lottery picks the Lakers had in the mid-2010s, he turns out to be the most successful one, so far.
3) Wasting the three #2 picks. None of them became a significant contributor to the Lakers, let alone stars, let alone superstars. None of them could even sniff the playoffs before Lebron came, so spare me the BS like "BI averaged 16 ppg so he's a significant contributor". 16 ppg on a non-playoff team? C'mon!!!
Of course, the most damaging one was picking 'Zo over Tatum. It practically gifted #18 to the Celtics.
4) Trading the farm for Westbrick.
Of course, the Lakers made three good moves during the same period, two of them led to the 2020 title: lure Lebron to sign with the team and trade for AD; the other one? trade Bynum for Dwight. Not sure if it's dumb luck or what? After his 2nd team All-NBA in 2011-12, Bynum never played significant minutes again. So it's a trade of damaged goods for a 1st team All-NBA center that still have something left in the tank (Dwight still average ~15 ppg and 10+ rpg for 5 seasons after he left the Lakers). Too bad they chose to keep Kobe instead of Dwight.
I evaluate decisions based on the information we had at the time, not in hindsight.
I had issues with the Kobe extension, the Westbrook trade, and letting Randall go for nothing.
I don't have a problem with the three guys we selected at the number two slot. Sure, in hindsight, there were better choices. But that's almost always the case. I think they were reasonable choices at the time so I wouldn't call those bad decisions.
I evaluate decisions based on hindsights, not on the information we had at the time.
That's why Portland was mocked for picking Bowie instead of Jordan, Oden instead of Durant, LaRue Martin instead of Bob McAdoo. Front office is always criticized for making bad picks ahead of superstars picked later. Is it fair? Who says life is fair?
If we have only the information at the time to evaluate decisions, no decisions ever can be wrong.
I'll keep using the same stuff to refute you. Just to let you know, I am here for the last say, so I'll respond until you stop.
You have no guarantee that AD would be available a year later, you admitted that. In other words, signing AD as a FA a year later was only a pipe dream.
You claim that we traded away for AD, yet you confessed that we had re-built the depth by February in 2023. So your statements are contradictory.
Keep repeating the same stuff don't help your argument, but help expose your own contradictions.
We all repeat the same old sh*t
Except some of us lurk for eleven years until the feeling festers to the point where they can no longer take it I suppose.
Since you've followed my posts for so long, then you also know I don't mind going on either.
Teams can rebuild in one year let alone four.
I'm contradicting nothing.
We made an overpay in 2019.
In 2023 we made a series of trades that played to our advantage.
The fact that you believe this is some sort of verbal checkmate is very amusing to me.
I'm going out soon, but if you continue to reply, chances are I will later if I see it.
I will go on until you stop your nonsense. You can count on that. So you are ON!!!
So we can rebuild easily in 4 years, so what the big deal about the depth the Lakers gave up that you cried about?
In 2023 we made a series of trades because we had the assets to make that trade. That assets included Westbrook. We acquired Westbrook because we had assets to trade for him back in 2021. In other words, your "overpay" is soundly refuted by yourself.
In other words, your claim that we gave up a lot of depth for AD is really BS. The trades afterwards proved you wrong.
You know the expression "broken play" It applies in basketball but mainly in football.
Salaries
Rk Salary
1 LeBron James $37,436,858
2 Anthony Davis $27,093,019
3 Danny Green $14,634,146
4 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope $8,089,282
5 Luol Deng $5,000,000
6 Avery Bradley $4,767,000
7 JaVale McGee $4,000,000
8 DeMarcus Cousins $3,500,000
9 Quinn Cook $3,000,000
10 Alex Caruso $2,750,000
11 Jared Dudley $2,564,753
12 Rajon Rondo $2,564,753
13 Dwight Howard $2,564,753
14 Troy Daniels $2,028,594
15 Kyle Kuzma $1,974,600
16 Markieff Morris $1,750,000
17 Talen Horton-Tucker $898,310
18 Dion Waiters $503,656
When a team relies on their 10th, 12th, 13th, and 15th highest paid players to win a title.
It usually isn't a good plan.
That's funny. Your claim is "the Lakers overpaid for AD". That's soundly refuted by the assets sent out and acquired in the Westbrook trade (in 2021 and 2023, respectively). No more arguments there?
Now you want to talk salary?
You first admit that your "overpay theory" is nonsense HERE, then I'll talk salary with you...
Actually thay did overpay for AD..smh. Lets go back in Lakers History..smh.
Lakers had multiple 1st Rd draftpcks of BI/Russ/Lonzo and quality role players Hart/Zubac/+ Assets of multple 1st Rnd Assets
That went out for AD
However, the Pelicans really at that point werent suppose to be in the driver's seat or demanding anything. Why?
During that time AD had publically let it be known he didnt want to be there. Futhe rmore, when he injured his shoulder midway thru the season..FANS we're upset claiming ..even then.. that he was too soft and injury prone but this last injury where he just walked off the court and didnt come back? Many were seeing it as he simply quit on the team and season. Those fans WANTED HIM GONE along with Management. So they had no upper hand...The reason we gave away everything was due to Tragic as th GM, and him coming out saying what he would do to get AD...sad..idiot. The Pel smelled blood due to Tragic as the GM and thats where they came with that crazy offer. They problably thought no GM would be that stupid to get them with how much they demanded. They just didnt know the boundless Stupidity Tragic had in him.
Would AD had come the following year?
Sure!. Everybody and their mom that half way knew about basketball knew he was seeking Lakers as his only destination. Tragic was just bidding against himself really. We could have got him later on but LECry and Tragic wanted everyone gone just to get him and sure they had been talking to AD before hand..Heck he was under Klutch at that time!...Duh?!
Compare RUi/DLo/Vando/Bease of 2023 to what we gave up to get AD? Its not even close..we still on the hook till this day with that trade as we didnt have a valid PG..this was really shown when Rhondo(became a band aid even though we did win a chip with but he was at near retirement) left...which led to Shro..Which ultimatley brung in the WB debacle all started with what? The Trade for AD...i.e. no real starting true PG. We also lost a real good C in Zu but im not even going there...as that led to older vet centers of Mcgee and Howard.
Moreoever was it worh it? Well that matters on when you became the fan of the lakers.. If its back in the early 90s and earlier..NOPE.
If your in this day and age say 2000's till now then year as you can hang your reason on the bubble chip. the "Atleast we got a chip our of it" crowd.
Older lakers fans would reply "So? Thats not but one ring. Its not a dynasty Its nothing like what we got from the contributions of Kareem or Shaq..sooooo? Do we suppose to jump up and down for that?"
There is no such thing as "sure, AD would come here the next year as a free agent". That's only speculation. What if the Pelicans had traded him next season to the Warriors to partner with Steph and Klay? to the Nuggets to partner him with Jokic and Murray? to the Nets to partner with KD and Irving? You sure AD would have left after 1 season and signed as a FA with the Lakers in 2021?
As starter, his max contract couldn't get the amount and the # years that he would have gotten from his current team (Warriors/Nuggets/Nets).
So you only speculate that AD would have signed with the Lakers because you assume the Pelicans wouldn't do anything, just let his contract expire. If you can speculate, so can I. I say it's no sure thing. Since it's speculation, my speculation is every bit as good as yours.
As for Lakers history, I witness two dynasties of the Lakers, the Showtime Lakers and the Shaq/Kobe/Pau Lakers, 5 chips each. Why would I settle for 1 chip from Lebron and AD?
Simple, because that gave us the 17th title. We have been behind the Celtics for 57 years. It was 5-5 in 1962, 5-6 in 1963, 9-16 in 1986, 16-17 in 2010, then wait for 10 years to get even. If you are not satisfied with one title from Lebron/AD and insist on personnel moves that get us 4-5 titles, that's your problem. I am more than happy to get even first before any pipe dream of another dynasty.
That's the HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE!!!
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Sat May 27, 2023 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
There is no such thing as "sure, AD would come here the next year as a free agent". That's only speculation. What if the Pelicans had traded him next season to the Warriors to partner with Steph and Klay? to the Nuggets to partner him with Jokic and Murray? to the Nets to partner with KD and Irving? You sure AD would have left after 1 season and signed as a FA with the Lakers in 2021?
That's always the problem with these alternative realities. People often assume their guess of what would have happened was a certainty rather than just a guess which could have been wrong.
Yet we have some the fans who believe anything less than 5 titles every decade is a failure, because that's what a group of Lakers who were around before they were born accomplished.
And the funny thing is some of those fans who are angry about all the imaginary titles they think they should have gotten in the last 13 years dismiss the one real title as a lucky event we didn't deserve.
There is nothing as entitled as a Lakers fan.
The Lakers made a lot of bad moves since the 2010 title. It's no wonder they won only 1 title in 13 years.
1) Giving Kobe the 2-year extension in November 2013 that kept him for two more years (2014-15, 2015-16). He just suffered his achilles heel injury 6 months ago. Considering his age and the injury, the odds of him coming back as a prime Kobe was not good. It wasted two years in the Lakers rebuild. By not cutting Kobe in an "amnesty" move, it practically drove Dwight away as a FA. So, keeping Kobe was a business move, not a basketball move.
2) Cutting Julius Randall and got nothing in return. Among the lottery picks the Lakers had in the mid-2010s, he turns out to be the most successful one, so far.
3) Wasting the three #2 picks. None of them became a significant contributor to the Lakers, let alone stars, let alone superstars. None of them could even sniff the playoffs before Lebron came, so spare me the BS like "BI averaged 16 ppg so he's a significant contributor". 16 ppg on a non-playoff team? C'mon!!!
Of course, the most damaging one was picking 'Zo over Tatum. It practically gifted #18 to the Celtics.
4) Trading the farm for Westbrick.
Of course, the Lakers made three good moves during the same period, two of them led to the 2020 title: lure Lebron to sign with the team and trade for AD; the other one? trade Bynum for Dwight. Not sure if it's dumb luck or what? After his 2nd team All-NBA in 2011-12, Bynum never played significant minutes again. So it's a trade of damaged goods for a 1st team All-NBA center that still have something left in the tank (Dwight still average ~15 ppg and 10+ rpg for 5 seasons after he left the Lakers). Too bad they chose to keep Kobe instead of Dwight.
I evaluate decisions based on the information we had at the time, not in hindsight.
I had issues with the Kobe extension, the Westbrook trade, and letting Randall go for nothing.
I don't have a problem with the three guys we selected at the number two slot. Sure, in hindsight, there were better choices. But that's almost always the case. I think they were reasonable choices at the time so I wouldn't call those bad decisions.
I evaluate decisions based on hindsights, not on the information we had at the time.
That's why Portland was mocked for picking Bowie instead of Jordan, Oden instead of Durant, LaRue Martin instead of Bob McAdoo. Front office is always criticized for making bad picks ahead of superstars picked later. Is it fair? Who says life is fair?
If we have only the information at the time to evaluate decisions, no decisions ever can be wrong.
If only the OP can understand this logic. Imagine won the lottery and after 4 years you discuss “did I spend too much money on the tickets, maybe I could win more than one lottery”
I just think it would have been better to go with the original plan which was to sign the second elite outright like Butler for example... or wait for AD the following year.
This "second elite" Butler is on the way to blow a historical lead, 3-0 to 3-3 by shooting 5-21 in game 6.
He's also the guy who bricked a 3-pointer in the last seconds of game 7 of the ECF last year, when a 2-pointer could have tied the game and sent the game to OT.
Joined: 22 Mar 2003 Posts: 3265 Location: so many places
Posted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:12 pm Post subject:
I think you keep the team as is out of respect for Bron and then you blow it up after his contract expires and build a team, not this hodgepodge of players.
Last edited by strong9 on Sat May 27, 2023 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
I'll keep using the same stuff to refute you. Just to let you know, I am here for the last say, so I'll respond until you stop.
You have no guarantee that AD would be available a year later, you admitted that. In other words, signing AD as a FA a year later was only a pipe dream.
You claim that we traded away for AD, yet you confessed that we had re-built the depth by February in 2023. So your statements are contradictory.
Keep repeating the same stuff don't help your argument, but help expose your own contradictions.
We all repeat the same old sh*t
Except some of us lurk for eleven years until the feeling festers to the point where they can no longer take it I suppose.
Since you've followed my posts for so long, then you also know I don't mind going on either.
Teams can rebuild in one year let alone four.
I'm contradicting nothing.
We made an overpay in 2019.
In 2023 we made a series of trades that played to our advantage.
The fact that you believe this is some sort of verbal checkmate is very amusing to me.
I'm going out soon, but if you continue to reply, chances are I will later if I see it.
I will go on until you stop your nonsense. You can count on that. So you are ON!!!
So we can rebuild easily in 4 years, so what the big deal about the depth the Lakers gave up that you cried about?
In 2023 we made a series of trades because we had the assets to make that trade. That assets included Westbrook. We acquired Westbrook because we had assets to trade for him back in 2021. In other words, your "overpay" is soundly refuted by yourself.
In other words, your claim that we gave up a lot of depth for AD is really BS. The trades afterwards proved you wrong.
You know the expression "broken play" It applies in basketball but mainly in football.
Salaries
Rk Salary
1 LeBron James $37,436,858
2 Anthony Davis $27,093,019
3 Danny Green $14,634,146
4 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope $8,089,282
5 Luol Deng $5,000,000
6 Avery Bradley $4,767,000
7 JaVale McGee $4,000,000
8 DeMarcus Cousins $3,500,000
9 Quinn Cook $3,000,000
10 Alex Caruso $2,750,000
11 Jared Dudley $2,564,753
12 Rajon Rondo $2,564,753
13 Dwight Howard $2,564,753
14 Troy Daniels $2,028,594
15 Kyle Kuzma $1,974,600
16 Markieff Morris $1,750,000
17 Talen Horton-Tucker $898,310
18 Dion Waiters $503,656
When a team relies on their 10th, 12th, 13th, and 15th highest paid players to win a title.
It usually isn't a good plan.
That's funny. Your claim is "the Lakers overpaid for AD". That's soundly refuted by the assets sent out and acquired in the Westbrook trade (in 2021 and 2023, respectively). No more arguments there?
Now you want to talk salary?
You first admit that your "overpay theory" is nonsense HERE, then I'll talk salary with you...
Actually thay did overpay for AD..smh. Lets go back in Lakers History..smh.
Lakers had multiple 1st Rd draftpcks of BI/Russ/Lonzo and quality role players Hart/Zubac/+ Assets of multple 1st Rnd Assets
That went out for AD
However, the Pelicans really at that point werent suppose to be in the driver's seat or demanding anything. Why?
During that time AD had publically let it be known he didnt want to be there. Futhe rmore, when he injured his shoulder midway thru the season..FANS we're upset claiming ..even then.. that he was too soft and injury prone but this last injury where he just walked off the court and didnt come back? Many were seeing it as he simply quit on the team and season. Those fans WANTED HIM GONE along with Management. So they had no upper hand...The reason we gave away everything was due to Tragic as th GM, and him coming out saying what he would do to get AD...sad..idiot. The Pel smelled blood due to Tragic as the GM and thats where they came with that crazy offer. They problably thought no GM would be that stupid to get them with how much they demanded. They just didnt know the boundless Stupidity Tragic had in him.
Would AD had come the following year?
Sure!. Everybody and their mom that half way knew about basketball knew he was seeking Lakers as his only destination. Tragic was just bidding against himself really. We could have got him later on but LECry and Tragic wanted everyone gone just to get him and sure they had been talking to AD before hand..Heck he was under Klutch at that time!...Duh?!
Compare RUi/DLo/Vando/Bease of 2023 to what we gave up to get AD? Its not even close..we still on the hook till this day with that trade as we didnt have a valid PG..this was really shown when Rhondo(became a band aid even though we did win a chip with but he was at near retirement) left...which led to Shro..Which ultimatley brung in the WB debacle all started with what? The Trade for AD...i.e. no real starting true PG. We also lost a real good C in Zu but im not even going there...as that led to older vet centers of Mcgee and Howard.
Moreoever was it worh it? Well that matters on when you became the fan of the lakers.. If its back in the early 90s and earlier..NOPE.
If your in this day and age say 2000's till now then year as you can hang your reason on the bubble chip. the "Atleast we got a chip our of it" crowd.
Older lakers fans would reply "So? Thats not but one ring. Its not a dynasty Its nothing like what we got from the contributions of Kareem or Shaq..sooooo? Do we suppose to jump up and down for that?"
There is no such thing as "sure, AD would come here the next year as a free agent". That's only speculation. What if the Pelicans had traded him next season to the Warriors to partner with Steph and Klay? to the Nuggets to partner him with Jokic and Murray? to the Nets to partner with KD and Irving? You sure AD would have left after 1 season and signed as a FA with the Lakers in 2021?
As starter, his max contract couldn't get the amount and the # years that he would have gotten from his current team (Warriors/Nuggets/Nets).
So you only speculate that AD would have signed with the Lakers because you assume the Pelicans wouldn't do anything, just let his contract expire. If you can speculate, so can I. I say he wouldn't sign with the Lakers as a FA. Since it's speculation, my speculation is every bit as good as yours.
As for Lakers history, I witness two dynasties of the Lakers, the Showtime Lakers and the Shaq/Kobe/Pau Lakers, 5 chips each. Why would I settle for 1 chip from Lebron and AD?
Simple, because that gave us the 17th title. We have been behind the Celtics for 57 years. It was 5-5 in 1962, 5-6 in 1963, 9-16 in 1986, 16-17 in 2010, then wait for 10 years to get even. If you are not satisfied with one title from Lebron/AD and insist on personnel moves that get us 4-5 titles, that's your problem. I am more than happy to get even first before any pipe dream of another dynasty.
If those three teams were sooooooo into getting him..Why didnt the Pels just give him to them? Why did he push the trade amount sooo much for the lakers? We were biding against ourselves. How hard is that to understand? Those teams werent giving up anyrhing. Its not that hard to understand.
Are serious with your second part? "Its a special ONE WHOLE title because it put us on level with the Celtics "? Are you serious? Dude they hadnt won a title in YEARSSS..they had to use up assets to get KG/Pierce and Allen to get one...smh.
Pipe dream and Lakers doing dynasties..really? Have the Lakers sunk that low that one whole bubble ring gets you excited? Lakers and getting rings during 80s and 90s was as close as breathing... Showtime came...then it faded with jordan bulls beating LAkers and Kareem retiring...However West made a Bet on this guy Kobe and paid money for Shaq..and well.. it was back to business as usual...Manufactoriing of Rings...thats plural. Lakers and Dynasty has always fit together..and you should know this. Why do you think other fans hated us?...we had a level of expections and arrogance..same as the old Cowboys. Why we had that?..because our created teams could back it all up with multiple chips. Did we have down teams? Yep but we knew if we spent high amounts money...we about to see a show and ring("s") following. I kind of miss those years..Logo as the GM..Highest Game Ratings...Logo even on the Ball...And those other teams? In shadows...Chris Kaman put it best During the Kobe & Shaq era "We just seeing who going to be #2"
"Not getting the ring is considered a failure of a year" and that saying was even spoke by Magic the Player. If Magic the player expects that what was fans expectations? Hint More than getting one ring.
If those three teams were sooooooo into getting him..Why didnt the Pels just give him to them? Why did he push the trade amount sooo much for the lakers? We were biding against ourselves. How hard is that to understand? Those teams werent giving up anyrhing. Its not that hard to understand.
Are serious with your second part? "Its a special ONE WHOLE title because it put us on level with the Celtics "? Are you serious? Dude they hadnt won a title in YEARSSS..they had to use up assets to get KG/Pierce and Allen to get one...smh.
Pipe dream and Lakers doing dynasties..really? Have the Lakers sunk that low that one whole bubble ring gets you excited? Lakers and getting rings during 80s and 90s was as close as breathing... Showtime came...then it faded with jordan bulls beating LAkers and Kareem retiring...However West made a Bet on this guy Kobe and paid money for Shaq..and well.. it was back to business as usual...Manufactoriing of Rings...thats plural. Lakers and Dynasty has always fit together..and you should know this. Why do you think other fans hated us?...we had a level of expections and arrogance..same as the old Cowboys. Why we had that?..because our created teams could back it all up with multiple chips. Did we have down teams? Yep but we knew if we spent high amounts money...we about to see a show and ring("s") following. I kind of miss those years..Logo as the GM..Highest Game Ratings...Logo even on the Ball...And those other teams? In shadows...Chris Kaman put it best During the Kobe & Shaq era "We just seeing who going to be #2"
"Not getting the ring is considered a failure of a year" and that saying was even spoke by Magic the Player. If Magic the player expects that what was fans expectations? Hint More than getting one ring.
Of course it's hard to understand, because it's only your speculation that AD would have signed for the Lakers a year later. A lot can change in a year, like the Nets suddenly gave up on Harden, or suddenly broke up the Durant/Irving tandem.
Yes, I am SERIOUS about the 2nd part. Dude, the Celtics won 1 title in 34 years, yet we still haven't caught up until 2020. Trailing by 7 titles (16-9) is tough to catch up. So yes, I am satisfied with one title that get us even. Who are you to determine what I want or don't want? that I must NOT be satisfied with tying the Celtics? who are you? the mind-controller of all Laker fans?
If you say that Lakers are entitled to a dynasty, that's only your minority opinion. Majority of the Lakers fans in this thread are satisfied with the trade result: we won a championship.
Are you entitled to your minority opinion, sure, but it's just that, an opinion not many people share with. It's like saying MJ was one of the worst players in NBA history, or the Clippers were a great franchise, etc. You sure can say that, but simply make a fool of yourself, like your claim of the entitlement to a dynasty...
"Not getting a ring is a failure"? OK, how many rings did LeBron and BI and 'Zo get? Remember, it's only your speculation that they would have gotten AD as a FA a year later. I speculate otherwise. There goes the validity of your argument...
^what dynasty are we talking about here with a 36 year old Lebron? It was a 3-4 year window at the most and we got what we needed.
Unless someone can show me an alternative universe which AD came during the following off season(stay healthy all the time)and we are currently talking about a 3 Pete or 4 Pete, there is no point to even debate this.
^what dynasty are we talking about here with a 36 year old Lebron? It was a 3-4 year window at the most and we got what we needed.
Unless someone can show me an alternative universe which AD came during the following off season(stay healthy all the time)and we are currently talking about a 3 Pete or 4 Pete, there is no point to even debate this.
Wrong again..there were mistakes made that cost us a another chip. Whew.....you make this hard ...Another time going back to Lakers History:
We had just came back off of a 2020 chip. We were taugted as having a great defensive Center rotation. When DH twitted he was coming back..Management told him to take it down. AND AT THAT MOMENT IS WHEN THEY Messed UP. LeCry Baby brung in Trez...which made nooo sense as we had won a ring with a Big Lineup. Who would make changes after wining a chip? Everybody would run it back and maybe in midsesason make small minor changes for the run. Not us. We brung in Trez and got rid of really how we made it past DEN.. DH and McGee. That right there was a missed ring.
Trez was too small and Gasol was a glacier at that point. We got rid of what really got us over other teams. Eventhough Rhondo was ageing and really had no center we made it back to playoffs. What happen though AD right on que goes down..but we knew this was going to happen as it happen with the PELS. We had no true center to man the post nor that offensive producton against PHX. Howver if we made no moves to get Trez, even if AD went down we could have moved DH and Mcgee into the linups of Center and Foward as McGee had some offense ..but we messed up what we had.
Next we trade all our players to get WB..that right there was another ring change..i chance as we had already messed up the center position..smh. The rest is history.
^what dynasty are we talking about here with a 36 year old Lebron? It was a 3-4 year window at the most and we got what we needed.
Unless someone can show me an alternative universe which AD came during the following off season(stay healthy all the time)and we are currently talking about a 3 Pete or 4 Pete, there is no point to even debate this.
Wrong again..there were mistakes made that cost us a another chip. Whew.....you make this hard ...Another time going back to Lakers History:
We had just came back off of a 2020 chip. We were taugted as having a great defensive Center rotation. When DH twitted he was coming back..Management told him to take it down. AND AT THAT MOMENT IS WHEN THEY Messed UP. LeCry Baby brung in Trez...which made nooo sense as we had won a ring with a Big Lineup. Who would make changes after wining a chip? Everybody would run it back and maybe in midsesason make small minor changes for the run. Not us. We brung in Trez and got rid of really how we made it past DEN.. DH and McGee. That right there was a missed ring.
Trez was too small and Gasol was a glacier at that point. We got rid of what really got us over other teams. Eventhough Rhondo was ageing and really had no center we made it back to playoffs. What happen though AD right on que goes down..but we knew this was going to happen as it happen with the PELS. We had no true center to man the post nor that offensive producton against PHX. Howver if we made no moves to get Trez, even if AD went down we could have moved DH and Mcgee into the linups of Center and Foward as McGee had some offense ..but we messed up what we had.
Next we trade all our players to get WB..that right there was another ring change..i chance as we had already messed up the center position..smh. The rest is history.
We got over most teams in the playoffs with AD at the 5 except for the Denver series that year. rondo left us in 2021,at least get your facts straight. Marc gasol was a pretty good defender and can make 3s. Trezz and DS carried us into the playoffs while LBJ and AD were both out. Any chance of us beating PHX went down the moment AD went down. We lost to phx because of the super shot making by Booker, Payne, crowder. DH and McGee have been irrelevant since leaving the Lakers. Nobody likes the brick deal.
Also AD never had major injuries during the Pelicans era, and you can’t argue he was hurt like NOP days one end and tell people we can expect a dynasty on the other. It contradicts each other. We were fortunate enough to win a ring and that makes the AD deal worth it.
Going back to Lakers history is pointless, all the dynasties were built with players in their prime or drafted , not 35-36 years old as the best player.
Also, be grateful to your players, there is no need to call them “Lecry baby” when he chose us to bring us back to relevance.
Would we have even had the cap space to have signed AD outright?
Depends on what they did alternatively without trading for AD. BI would be up for extension in that offseason, so there was going to be a cap hold on him. Not sure if they sign KCP/DG or how much they sign them for.
Maybe someone could tell us that in the alternative universe
^what dynasty are we talking about here with a 36 year old Lebron? It was a 3-4 year window at the most and we got what we needed.
Unless someone can show me an alternative universe which AD came during the following off season(stay healthy all the time)and we are currently talking about a 3 Pete or 4 Pete, there is no point to even debate this.
Wrong again..there were mistakes made that cost us a another chip. Whew.....you make this hard ...Another time going back to Lakers History:
We had just came back off of a 2020 chip. We were taugted as having a great defensive Center rotation. When DH twitted he was coming back..Management told him to take it down. AND AT THAT MOMENT IS WHEN THEY Messed UP. LeCry Baby brung in Trez...which made nooo sense as we had won a ring with a Big Lineup. Who would make changes after wining a chip? Everybody would run it back and maybe in midsesason make small minor changes for the run. Not us. We brung in Trez and got rid of really how we made it past DEN.. DH and McGee. That right there was a missed ring.
Trez was too small and Gasol was a glacier at that point. We got rid of what really got us over other teams. Eventhough Rhondo was ageing and really had no center we made it back to playoffs. What happen though AD right on que goes down..but we knew this was going to happen as it happen with the PELS. We had no true center to man the post nor that offensive producton against PHX. Howver if we made no moves to get Trez, even if AD went down we could have moved DH and Mcgee into the linups of Center and Foward as McGee had some offense ..but we messed up what we had.
Next we trade all our players to get WB..that right there was another ring change..i chance as we had already messed up the center position..smh. The rest is history.
So there you have it.
"There were mistakes made that cost us another chip", your own words.
So not getting another chip is not due to your "overpaying for AD", as many of the posters, including myself, on this thread have documented, there are other reasons, all from your own words:
1) injuries in the 2020-21 season
2) the trade for Westbrick.
3) the lack of depth at center.
These weren't due to "overpaying" for AD, no chance whatsoever.
OTOH, your "What happen though AD right on que goes down..but we knew this was going to happen as it happen with the PELS." is really nonsense. If that's true, how come he didn't go down in the 2020 and 2023 playoffs? He should follow the script, shouldn't he?
^what dynasty are we talking about here with a 36 year old Lebron? It was a 3-4 year window at the most and we got what we needed.
Unless someone can show me an alternative universe which AD came during the following off season(stay healthy all the time)and we are currently talking about a 3 Pete or 4 Pete, there is no point to even debate this.
Wrong again..there were mistakes made that cost us a another chip. Whew.....you make this hard ...Another time going back to Lakers History:
We had just came back off of a 2020 chip. We were taugted as having a great defensive Center rotation. When DH twitted he was coming back..Management told him to take it down. AND AT THAT MOMENT IS WHEN THEY Messed UP. LeCry Baby brung in Trez...which made nooo sense as we had won a ring with a Big Lineup. Who would make changes after wining a chip? Everybody would run it back and maybe in midsesason make small minor changes for the run. Not us. We brung in Trez and got rid of really how we made it past DEN.. DH and McGee. That right there was a missed ring.
Trez was too small and Gasol was a glacier at that point. We got rid of what really got us over other teams. Eventhough Rhondo was ageing and really had no center we made it back to playoffs. What happen though AD right on que goes down..but we knew this was going to happen as it happen with the PELS. We had no true center to man the post nor that offensive producton against PHX. Howver if we made no moves to get Trez, even if AD went down we could have moved DH and Mcgee into the linups of Center and Foward as McGee had some offense ..but we messed up what we had.
Next we trade all our players to get WB..that right there was another ring change..i chance as we had already messed up the center position..smh. The rest is history.
We got over most teams in the playoffs with AD at the 5 except for the Denver series that year. rondo left us in 2021,at least get your facts straight. Marc gasol was a pretty good defender and can make 3s. Trezz and DS carried us into the playoffs while LBJ and AD were both out. Any chance of us beating PHX went down the moment AD went down. We lost to phx because of the super shot making by Booker, Payne, crowder. DH and McGee have been irrelevant since leaving the Lakers. Nobody likes the brick deal.
Also AD never had major injuries during the Pelicans era, and you can’t argue he was hurt like NOP days one end and tell people we can expect a dynasty on the other. It contradicts each other. We were fortunate enough to win a ring and that makes the AD deal worth it.
Going back to Lakers history is pointless, all the dynasties were built with players in their prime or drafted , not 35-36 years old as the best player.
Also, be grateful to your players, there is no need to call them “Lecry baby” when he chose us to bring us back to relevance.
AD was at the 4 and Mcgee was your starting C..what are you talking about?
AD tried to be Center because McGee was getting pushed. However come to find out Jockic was killing AD down there too. Thats when Vogel out DH and let AD go back to 4. We Win.
Rhondo left in 2021..well i told you he had gotten older and near retirement 2020..However the trade for AD left us without a PG so there it is HINT HINT NO PG DUE TO TRADE..this should not be this hard. This left DS as our starting PG..what the majority of people here consider a bench player..sooo.
We lost as AD went down and Booker/payne/crowder was able to score but also go inside and we didnt have half the offense as AD was the other half. We had noone as a center nor a 4th after that injury HINT HINT No Howard or McGee.. Trez was too small and GAsol was a Shell of his days with Memphis...thats facts
If you just claim its because they had some hot shot streak...Then why did it suddenly happen with AD went down? Things to make you say? hmmmmmm as we seemed to be beating them before that happend. Also EVERYONE knew AD was injury prone..name me a time AD played a whole 82 games for the PELS? ill wait..no im not im going to bed of this obvi stuff.
SMh...once again....,Marc gasol was not a good defender. He was on his last leg and could barely get up and down the court.
Futhermore you just said it..and proved what people told you..WE OVERPAID FOR AD..IT was not a good trade...2023 in talent was far less than what we gave up for AD. Also i TOLD you it was messed up. Putting that much on the line with AD(injury prone) and a 35yr old guy..just wasnt the way to go... I NEVER WANTED LBJ over here because i knew what that meant..wreckage of a team..MIA and CLEV..Yeah he makes us relevant but not in chips just circus and Media and we have enough of that with the FO.
Futhermore you just said it..and proved what people told you..WE OVERPAID FOR AD..IT was not a good trade...2023 in talent was far less than what we gave up for AD. Also i TOLD you it was messed up. Putting that much on the line with AD(injury prone) and a 35yr old guy..just wasnt the way to go... I NEVER WANTED LBJ over here because i knew what that meant..wreckage of a team..MIA and CLEV..Yeah he makes us relevant but not in chips just circus and Media and we have enough of that with the FO.
Keep repeating something doesn't make it true. Keep repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact. It's just your opinion that we OVERPAID for AD. Yet a lot of people here don't share that opinion.
Whether you want them or not, getting LBJ was the first step of getting us even with the Celtics, getting AD was the second step. Without these two steps, the likes of BI, 'Zo, Hart, and first round picks that the current regime had a history of botching up, we couldn't even smell #16.5, never mind #17.
We got lucky in 2020? Why didn't the Pels get lucky with AD? why didn't the Cavs get lucky in Lebron's first stint? Why didn't the Suns get lucky with Booker and CP3 (and later with Durant)? Why didn't the Heat get lucky with "blowing a 3-0 lead" Jimmy? Why didn't the 76ers get lucky with Embiid and Simmons/Harden?
Crediting the 2020 chip to "luck" is simplistic to say the least...
Futhermore you just said it..and proved what people told you..WE OVERPAID FOR AD..IT was not a good trade...2023 in talent was far less than what we gave up for AD. Also i TOLD you it was messed up. Putting that much on the line with AD(injury prone) and a 35yr old guy..just wasnt the way to go... I NEVER WANTED LBJ over here because i knew what that meant..wreckage of a team..MIA and CLEV..Yeah he makes us relevant but not in chips just circus and Media and we have enough of that with the FO.
Keep repeating something doesn't make it true. Keep repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact. It's just your opinion that we OVERPAID for AD. Yet a lot of people here don't share that opinion.
Whether you want them or not, getting LBJ was the first step of getting us even with the Celtics, getting AD was the second step. Without these two steps, the likes of BI, 'Zo, Hart, and first round picks that the current regime had a history of botching up, we couldn't even smell #16.5, never mind #17.
We got lucky in 2020? Why didn't the Pels get lucky with AD? why didn't the Cavs get lucky in Lebron's first stint? Why didn't the Suns get lucky with Booker and CP3 (and later with Durant)? Why didn't the Heat get lucky with "blowing a 3-0 lead" Jimmy? Why didn't the 76ers get lucky with Embiid and Simmons/Harden?
Crediting the 2020 chip to "luck" is simplistic to say the least...
Let me ask you..since im repeating myself. Who were we going against for Ad? What was their "great" package for him?
Futhermore you just said it..and proved what people told you..WE OVERPAID FOR AD..IT was not a good trade...2023 in talent was far less than what we gave up for AD. Also i TOLD you it was messed up. Putting that much on the line with AD(injury prone) and a 35yr old guy..just wasnt the way to go... I NEVER WANTED LBJ over here because i knew what that meant..wreckage of a team..MIA and CLEV..Yeah he makes us relevant but not in chips just circus and Media and we have enough of that with the FO.
Keep repeating something doesn't make it true. Keep repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact. It's just your opinion that we OVERPAID for AD. Yet a lot of people here don't share that opinion.
Whether you want them or not, getting LBJ was the first step of getting us even with the Celtics, getting AD was the second step. Without these two steps, the likes of BI, 'Zo, Hart, and first round picks that the current regime had a history of botching up, we couldn't even smell #16.5, never mind #17.
We got lucky in 2020? Why didn't the Pels get lucky with AD? why didn't the Cavs get lucky in Lebron's first stint? Why didn't the Suns get lucky with Booker and CP3 (and later with Durant)? Why didn't the Heat get lucky with "blowing a 3-0 lead" Jimmy? Why didn't the 76ers get lucky with Embiid and Simmons/Harden?
Crediting the 2020 chip to "luck" is simplistic to say the least...
Let me ask you..since im repeating myself. Who were we going against for Ad? What was their "great" package for him?
Who cares?
As long as the PELS won't let AD's contract expire, they would have done the deal with someone else if they don't like the Lakers' package. Are you that naive to think that the Pels is so desperate that they will take any package (your "not overpaid" package) the Lakers put on the table?
Your preaching of "the Lakers are the only bidder" is laughable. Before the 2019 draft:
The Athletic report also noted "rival executives" believe the Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and New York Knicks have the best pieces to create a trade package.
Charania reported before the trade deadline in February that Davis' list of preferred long-term destinations included the Lakers, Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers and Milwaukee Bucks.
BTW, it looks like you have to use an alias to continue your argument. You think you can get away with using another account to preach your nonsense here?
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Sun May 28, 2023 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
I evaluate decisions based on hindsights, not on the information we had at the time.
That's why Portland was mocked for picking Bowie instead of Jordan, Oden instead of Durant, LaRue Martin instead of Bob McAdoo. Front office is always criticized for making bad picks ahead of superstars picked later. Is it fair? Who says life is fair?
If we have only the information at the time to evaluate decisions, no decisions ever can be wrong.
I don't share your opinion or perspective.
There are certainly picks that are made at the time that I disagree with. So I don't agree with you that "no decisions can ever be wrong." There are lots of draft picks and trade picks that are dubious at the time, and which I thought were wrong at the time, and which I thought were wrong later.
However, if, say, a player's career is destroyed by an injury no one could have predicted, I am not going to blame the GM for that. That's me; your mileage might vary.
I evaluate decisions based on hindsights, not on the information we had at the time.
That's why Portland was mocked for picking Bowie instead of Jordan, Oden instead of Durant, LaRue Martin instead of Bob McAdoo. Front office is always criticized for making bad picks ahead of superstars picked later. Is it fair? Who says life is fair?
If we have only the information at the time to evaluate decisions, no decisions ever can be wrong.
I don't share your opinion or perspective.
There are certainly picks that are made at the time that I disagree with. So I don't agree with you that "no decisions can ever be wrong." There are lots of draft picks and trade picks that are dubious at the time, and which I thought were wrong at the time, and which I thought were wrong later.
However, if, say, a player's career is destroyed by an injury no one could have predicted, I am not going to blame the GM for that. That's me; your mileage might vary.
Of course, my mileage definitely varies.
Well, professional sports league is result-oriented. If a player's career is destroyed by injuries, the GM still doesn't get the credit of picking a great player/building a great team. No one would give credit to Larry Miller for picking an NBA superstar Greg Oden, except his career was destroyed by injuries. Ditto for Bryan Colangelo for picking Markelle Fultz.
Futhermore you just said it..and proved what people told you..WE OVERPAID FOR AD..IT was not a good trade...2023 in talent was far less than what we gave up for AD. Also i TOLD you it was messed up. Putting that much on the line with AD(injury prone) and a 35yr old guy..just wasnt the way to go... I NEVER WANTED LBJ over here because i knew what that meant..wreckage of a team..MIA and CLEV..Yeah he makes us relevant but not in chips just circus and Media and we have enough of that with the FO.
Keep repeating something doesn't make it true. Keep repeating your opinion doesn't make it a fact. It's just your opinion that we OVERPAID for AD. Yet a lot of people here don't share that opinion.
Whether you want them or not, getting LBJ was the first step of getting us even with the Celtics, getting AD was the second step. Without these two steps, the likes of BI, 'Zo, Hart, and first round picks that the current regime had a history of botching up, we couldn't even smell #16.5, never mind #17.
We got lucky in 2020? Why didn't the Pels get lucky with AD? why didn't the Cavs get lucky in Lebron's first stint? Why didn't the Suns get lucky with Booker and CP3 (and later with Durant)? Why didn't the Heat get lucky with "blowing a 3-0 lead" Jimmy? Why didn't the 76ers get lucky with Embiid and Simmons/Harden?
Crediting the 2020 chip to "luck" is simplistic to say the least...
Let me ask you..since im repeating myself. Who were we going against for Ad? What was their "great" package for him?
Who cares?
As long as the PELS won't let AD's contract expire, they would have done the deal with someone else if they don't like the Lakers' package. Are you that naive to think that the Pels is so desperate that they will take any package (your "not overpaid" package) the Lakers put on the table?
Your preaching of "the Lakers are the only bidder" is laughable. Before the 2019 draft:
The Athletic report also noted "rival executives" believe the Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Lakers and New York Knicks have the best pieces to create a trade package.
Charania reported before the trade deadline in February that Davis' list of preferred long-term destinations included the Lakers, Knicks, Los Angeles Clippers and Milwaukee Bucks.
BTW, it looks like you have to use an alias to continue your argument. You think you can get away with using another account to preach your nonsense here?
in other words you cant answer the question"..because..there....was....no,....one". say it with me. They put that for media heads...but its a lie. GMs do this all the time..Want me to prove it too huh? Okay ill do it with a question.
Tell me if they were giving better offers than the Lakers...Why did the Pels not give him to those "Other" great teams? Could it be beause they werent offering anything..some offers started at some dryed up Cheetos and some pop rock candy..thats about it. Other GMs already knew what AD wanted to go and they werent about to do what Dallas is about to do which is give up assets and letting the trade asset leave for nothing. All the years of looking at sports..I know you recognize this.
For once thank you!....also where were you at in the early morning when im trying to tell this guy about this over pay?...we're you sleeping like normal folks?..lol.
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