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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8584
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 Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: |
Where do you rank this AD trade compared to getting Shaq and Kareem? Or the Drfat night trade of Kobe..heck even getting Pau? |
AD trade > Shaq/Kareem/Pau acquisition. Championship in the first year. None of the other big men could do that.
In the Shaq and Kareem era, which trade afterwards was comparable to the Westbrook trade?
Geez, you tried to count the failed Westbrook trade as part of the AD trade? No chance! |
I can't tell if you're serious or not. |
Of course I am serious. Shaq's first year - loss to the Jazz in the 2nd round, Kareem's first year - missed the playoffs. Gasol's first year - loss in the finals.
Why don't you tell us about the trade in the Shaq/Kareem/Pau era that's comparable to the Westbrick trade? |
To be clear - are you saying that AD trade was better than us signing Shaq, trading for Kareem and Pau? |
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WorthyNum1
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: |
Where do you rank this AD trade compared to getting Shaq and Kareem? Or the Drfat night trade of Kobe..heck even getting Pau? |
AD trade > Shaq/Kareem/Pau acquisition. Championship in the first year. None of the other big men could do that.
In the Shaq and Kareem era, which trade afterwards was comparable to the Westbrook trade?
Geez, you tried to count the failed Westbrook trade as part of the AD trade? No chance! |
I can't tell if you're serious or not. |
Of course I am serious. Shaq's first year - loss to the Jazz in the 2nd round, Kareem's first year - missed the playoffs. Gasol's first year - loss in the finals.
Why don't you tell us about the trade in the Shaq/Kareem/Pau era that's comparable to the Westbrick trade? |
To be clear - are you saying that AD trade was better than us signing Shaq, trading for Kareem and Pau? |
For the first year, YES.
Kareem/Shaq/Pau's career is not hampered by a disastrous Westbrick trade either.
Why don't you address the Westbrick trade? you think you can wimp out on that one? I won't let you off-the-hook... |
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WorthyNum1
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8584
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | JustaObserver wrote: |
Where do you rank this AD trade compared to getting Shaq and Kareem? Or the Drfat night trade of Kobe..heck even getting Pau? |
AD trade > Shaq/Kareem/Pau acquisition. Championship in the first year. None of the other big men could do that.
In the Shaq and Kareem era, which trade afterwards was comparable to the Westbrook trade?
Geez, you tried to count the failed Westbrook trade as part of the AD trade? No chance! |
I can't tell if you're serious or not. |
Of course I am serious. Shaq's first year - loss to the Jazz in the 2nd round, Kareem's first year - missed the playoffs. Gasol's first year - loss in the finals.
Why don't you tell us about the trade in the Shaq/Kareem/Pau era that's comparable to the Westbrick trade? |
To be clear - are you saying that AD trade was better than us signing Shaq, trading for Kareem and Pau? |
For the first year, YES.
Kareem/Shaq/Pau's career is not hampered by a disastrous Westbrick trade either.
Why don't you address the Westbrick trade? you think you can wimp out on that one? I won't let you off-the-hook... |
AD is one of the players that asked to bring Westbrook.
But this thread is about AD and when you think of a trade or an acquisition, I don't think people are thinking about just 1 year.
It is an investment.
In terms of investment, Kareem, Shaq, Pau > AD trade.
Last edited by Outspoken on Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8584
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| Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12739
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option. |
Kareem and Shaq were unstoppable scorers. Pau doesn't belong in that list, and I love his post game. But he never won a single playoff game as the #1. He was 0-12, and averaged 20 points. AD won a playoff series and was a 30 point per game scorer in the playoffs prior to coming here. He's not the same type of scorer as Pau, he isn't as good of a post player. But he is a better scorer and player overall. Pau's best scoring season ever was 20.8 points.
Defensively, Kareem was a great defender in his prime. AD wipes the floor with Shaq or Pau defensively though.
They wait a year, they don't have a title. Or worse, the Celtics were reported to be pursuing him at the time. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
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I can't stand this argument. Because it never works for the Lakers.
We did the "we have leverage b/c PG13 is a free agent next season." How'd that work out?
Same for Kawhi, he didn't come here.
Sometimes, you just have to trade for a star b/c so much can happen between a trade deadline and free agency.
I don't think it was guaranteed at all that AD would come as a Lakers FA. Could have been traded somewhere that he ended up liking and stayed on, as that team could also offer him the highest salary.
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Halflife
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Joined: 15 Aug 2015
Posts: 18250
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option. |
Kareem and Shaq were unstoppable scorers. Pau doesn't belong in that list, and I love his post game. But he never won a single playoff game as the #1. He was 0-12, and averaged 20 points. AD won a playoff series and was a 30 point per game scorer in the playoffs prior to coming here. He's not the same type of scorer as Pau, he isn't as good of a post player. But he is a better scorer and player overall. Pau's best scoring season ever was 20.8 points.
Defensively, Kareem was a great defender in his prime. AD wipes the floor with Shaq or Pau defensively though.
They wait a year, they don't have a title. Or worse, the Celtics were reported to be pursuing him at the time. |
we are playing in different eras. What separates pau and AD during the runs in the playoffs here, pau showed up against much tougher opponents.
AD outside of bubble has been lame. The fact that his identity was "every other game" is laughable. Pau wasn't tough or physical but he carried the expectations of his leader, his coach and city during our window with the best of them. When he was clearly done he was mentioned in trades. That's where AD should be. Love him but his value is sky high.
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
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I can't stand this argument. Because it never works for the Lakers.
We did the "we have leverage b/c PG13 is a free agent next season." How'd that work out?
Same for Kawhi, he didn't come here.
Sometimes, you just have to trade for a star b/c so much can happen between a trade deadline and free agency.
I don't think it was guaranteed at all that AD would come as a Lakers FA. Could have been traded somewhere that he ended up liking and stayed on, as that team could also offer him the highest salary. |
None of those players are Klutch clients.
We didn't have leverage with PG and he was good friends with Russ.
The same player that rallied behind getting Russ onto the Clippers.
Kawhi didn't wanna play with Lebron, along with a lot of stars.
And none of those players are Klutch clients.
Last edited by Outspoken on Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:32 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8584
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option. |
Kareem and Shaq were unstoppable scorers. Pau doesn't belong in that list, and I love his post game. But he never won a single playoff game as the #1. He was 0-12, and averaged 20 points. AD won a playoff series and was a 30 point per game scorer in the playoffs prior to coming here. He's not the same type of scorer as Pau, he isn't as good of a post player. But he is a better scorer and player overall. Pau's best scoring season ever was 20.8 points.
Defensively, Kareem was a great defender in his prime. AD wipes the floor with Shaq or Pau defensively though.
They wait a year, they don't have a title. Or worse, the Celtics were reported to be pursuing him at the time. |
Pau made the post season 3 years in a row with Grizzlies as the #1 option.
Pau was traded to the Lakers, teamed up with Kobe, and Lakers went to the finals 3 years in a row.
AD been to the post season 2 years out of 7 years with the Pelicans.
AD has never consistently shown he could carry a team to the post season as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron on the Lakers. |
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WorthyNum1
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: |
AD is one of the players that asked to bring Westbrook.
But this thread is about AD and when you think of a trade or an acquisition, I don't think people are thinking about just 1 year.
It is an investment.
In terms of investment, Kareem, Shaq, Pau > AD trade. |
So AD had bad judgement of team chemistry, what did it have to do with his own trade itself?
Are you trying to use "AD asked to bring in Westbrook" to justify the AD trade is bad? Boy, you are desperate...
When AD had been here for only 4 years, his contribution to championships in 4 Lakers years > Kareem's first four, comparable to Shaq's first four.
Glad to see that you are using a 14-year career, a 8-year career to mislead, not to mention dare not talk about the Westbrick trade...
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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WorthyNum1
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
See, your tune is so similar to someone else (Bxxxxx) that using another account isn't going to save you.
He was a free agent the following year? but the Lakers had no leverage. Your alter ego said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
Don't you remember? That's your alter ego's "personal preference". What did it have to do with the Lakers' leverage? Only a fool would think that his personal preference = the Lakers' leverage, that the Pels wouldn't do anything by the 2020 trade deadline and let AD walk as a free agent such that the Lakers could sign him for free...
So your leverage is already refuted by me. Now using another account is not going to save you...
I have no interest if the Lakers front office is getting better. I am only interested in arguing with 3 accounts (alter egos) who claimed that "the Lakers overpaid for AD". You know what I mean  |
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5339
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
See, your tune is so similar to someone else (Bxxxxx) that using another account isn't going to save you.
He was a free agent the following year? but the Lakers had no leverage. Your alter ego said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
Don't you remember? That's your alter ego's "personal preference". What did it have to do with the Lakers' leverage? Only a fool would think that his personal preference = the Lakers' leverage, that the Pels wouldn't do anything by the 2020 trade deadline and let AD walk as a free agent such that the Lakers could sign him for free...
So your leverage is already refuted by me. Now using another account is not going to save you...
I have no interest if the Lakers front office is getting better. I am only interested in arguing with 3 accounts (alter egos) who claimed that "the Lakers overpaid for AD". You know what I mean |
Maybe you think someone is using an alter ego because you are the one who came out of nowhere using an alt.
I personally can say I'm not the same person as Outspoken.
Don't know how to prove it other than asking why I would have the foresight to make 8000 posts on one account in 2015 and then 4600 posts on an account starting in 2020... lie in wait for three years, only to begin to suddenly join forces against a 100 post account who doesn't even make any decent, original arguments.
You sound unhinged, dude. I don't which account hurt you so much in the past, but you aren't making any sense. |
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Outspoken
Star Player
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8584
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
See, your tune is so similar to someone else (Bxxxxx) that using another account isn't going to save you.
He was a free agent the following year? but the Lakers had no leverage. Your alter ego said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
Don't you remember? That's your alter ego's "personal preference". What did it have to do with the Lakers' leverage? Only a fool would think that his personal preference = the Lakers' leverage, that the Pels wouldn't do anything by the 2020 trade deadline and let AD walk as a free agent such that the Lakers could sign him for free...
So your leverage is already refuted by me. Now using another account is not going to save you...
I have no interest if the Lakers front office is getting better. I am only interested in arguing with 3 accounts (alter egos) who claimed that "the Lakers overpaid for AD". You know what I mean |
This comment is so confusing and weird. Lol |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119488
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
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I can't stand this argument. Because it never works for the Lakers.
We did the "we have leverage b/c PG13 is a free agent next season." How'd that work out?
Same for Kawhi, he didn't come here.
Sometimes, you just have to trade for a star b/c so much can happen between a trade deadline and free agency.
I don't think it was guaranteed at all that AD would come as a Lakers FA. Could have been traded somewhere that he ended up liking and stayed on, as that team could also offer him the highest salary. |
None of those players are Klutch clients.
We didn't have leverage with PG and he was good friends with Russ.
The same player that rallied behind getting Russ onto the Clippers.
Kawhi didn't wanna play with Lebron, along with a lot of stars.
And none of those players are Klutch clients. |
Eh. you think every Klutch star will sign with the Lakers. Not true. What I know is we blew it on PG/Kawhi (whether that was a good or bad thing isn't my point). PG especially was the whole "we can get him as a FA" thinking that was wrong.
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BILBJH
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5339
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
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I can't stand this argument. Because it never works for the Lakers.
We did the "we have leverage b/c PG13 is a free agent next season." How'd that work out?
Same for Kawhi, he didn't come here.
Sometimes, you just have to trade for a star b/c so much can happen between a trade deadline and free agency.
I don't think it was guaranteed at all that AD would come as a Lakers FA. Could have been traded somewhere that he ended up liking and stayed on, as that team could also offer him the highest salary. |
None of those players are Klutch clients.
We didn't have leverage with PG and he was good friends with Russ.
The same player that rallied behind getting Russ onto the Clippers.
Kawhi didn't wanna play with Lebron, along with a lot of stars.
And none of those players are Klutch clients. |
Eh. you think every Klutch star will sign with the Lakers. Not true. What I know is we blew it on PG/Kawhi (whether that was a good or bad thing isn't my point). PG especially was the whole "we can get him as a FA" thinking that was wrong. |
I believe we had the inside track on PG... f&cked him over for LBJ and burned that bridge.
It's not that we couldn't get him... he was the first star who wanted to come in awhile and we dropped him like a hot potato when LBJ showed interest. So poor management of that situation.
I agree our pursuit of Kawhi was delusional... he was being wined and dined and offered houses or whatever bullsh*t by Mr. Billionaire enabler and we all still thought he might come at the last minute.
AD is a different case... and the strong bond between LBJ and AD over some very rough patches this season has proven this to be true.
I think Klutch and LBJ could have gotten him to wait.
Of course it's not 100%... but man how that team would look today had we signed AD and kept all our young cost controlled assets and picks.
In summary...
PG... lost him due to our own mishandling of him.
Kawhi... agree we were delusional to pursue him
AD... close bond with LBJ and Klutch proven over time. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11500
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:32 am Post subject: |
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PG has stated that he was hurt the Lakers didn't trade for him. It wasn't because of their LBJ courtship; the plan at the time was to grab both but PG unexpectedly pivoted. Personally, I think he just developed a strong bond with Russ and ending the season on that Dame walk-off felt like unfinished business. Either way, I don't believe it's correct to state that the LBJ courtship led to PG not coming. If you believe what PG says, it's because they didn't trade for him when they could have.
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levon
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016
Posts: 11488
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| gng930 wrote: | | PG has stated that he was hurt the Lakers didn't trade for him. It wasn't because of their LBJ courtship; the plan at the time was to grab both but PG unexpectedly pivoted. Personally, I think he just developed a strong bond with Russ and ending the season on that Dame walk-off felt like unfinished business. Either way, I don't believe it's correct to state that the LBJ courtship led to PG not coming. If you believe what PG says, it's because they didn't trade for him when they could have. |
PG says a lot of things. I for one am glad we didn't trade for him. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11500
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:36 am Post subject: |
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In response to the arguments that we over-paid I will repost this. V+ made a really good argument that AD had only 1 year left on his deal unlike many of the others. It's also been argued though that Klutch/AD/Bron were already determined to bring him to LA so it seems a bit of moot point.
| gng930 wrote: |
In terms of FRPs:
AD: 3 + 1 swap
KD: 4 + 1 swap
Harden: 3 + 4 swaps
PG: 5 + 2 swaps
Mitchell: 3 + 2 swaps
Gobert: 5 + 1 swap
Murray: 3 + 1 swap
Jrue: 3 + 2 swaps
Even without accounting for AD's superior value, it doesn't seem Rob got taken to the cleaners. Even if you take into account the #4 pick ended up being traded for two FRPs, I still feel there was nothing egregious here.
In terms of best player sent out:
AD: Ingram
KD: Bridges (locked into a bargain deal)
Harden: Jarrett Allen
PG: SGA
Mitchell: Markkanen
Gobert: Vanderbilt
Murray: Gallinari
Jrue: Bledsoe
Ingram is clearly top 3-4, but has also been the most injury prone of that top group. In the context of AD arguably being the best player overall in this discussion, I can't criticize Rob here.
In terms of rotation-level players otherwise:
AD: Ball, Hart
KD: Cam, Crowder
Harden: Levert, Prince
PG: Gallinari
Mitchell: Sexton
Gobert: Bev, Beasley
Murray: none
Jrue: Hill
Ball has the highest ceiling here but his health struggles are well-documented. The Pelicans didn't even bother matching the Bulls' offer. Hart is a great role player but doesn't really stand out otherwise from other players in this group.
So I think you can argue that Rob fumbled some of the details in the margin and the aftermath of the deal. But when you look at the deal in a vacuum compared to similar blockbuster trades, you can make an argument he came out ahead. AD, KD, and Harden are in a tier of their own but AD was easily the youngest of the 3 at the time of the trade. One might argue for PG as well but it's clear the Clippers gave up significantly more. |
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gng930
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 11500
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| levon wrote: | | gng930 wrote: | | PG has stated that he was hurt the Lakers didn't trade for him. It wasn't because of their LBJ courtship; the plan at the time was to grab both but PG unexpectedly pivoted. Personally, I think he just developed a strong bond with Russ and ending the season on that Dame walk-off felt like unfinished business. Either way, I don't believe it's correct to state that the LBJ courtship led to PG not coming. If you believe what PG says, it's because they didn't trade for him when they could have. |
PG says a lot of things. I for one am glad we didn't trade for him. |
Sure. But you can choose to believe him or believe some of the speculation on here from folks who weren't anywhere involved in the process.
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12739
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | Pau made the post season 3 years in a row with Grizzlies as the #1 option.
Pau was traded to the Lakers, teamed up with Kobe, and Lakers went to the finals 3 years in a row.
AD been to the post season 2 years out of 7 years with the Pelicans.
AD has never consistently shown he could carry a team to the post season as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron on the Lakers. |
He went to the playoffs three years in a row, then missed them the year before the trade. His team got swept all three years. He also missed the playoffs in three of his six seasons in Memphis.
His numbers in those playoffs:
18.5 points (57.1% fg), 5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1 steal
21.3 points (48.8% fg), 7.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.8 blocks. 0.5 steals
20.3 points (43.3% fg), 6.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.3 blocks, 0.5 steals
His numbers in the three year Lakers run:
16.9 points (53% fg), 9.3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.9 blocks, 0.5 steals
18.3 points (58% fg), 10.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2 blocks, 0.8 steals
19.6 points (53.9% fg), 11.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.1 blocks, 0.4 steals
Yeah AD only had two playoff runs with the Pelicans, that isn't entirely on him that his teams stunk.
In those two playoff runs though he averaged:
31.5 points (54% fg), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 blocks, 1.3 steals
30.1 points (52% fg), 13.4 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 2.3 blocks, 2 steals
He carried his team into the second round before running into the prime Warriors. The #2 on that team was Jrue who averaged 23.7 points. The #3 was Mirotic at 15 points.
In the Lakers title run AD averaged 27.7 points on 57.1% fg shooting. That is far better than Pau ever averaged in any playoffs, his best was 21.3.
Look man, I love Pau. But he isn't on AD's level on either end of the court. He had two things he did exceptionally well. He was a good post player, arguably better than AD. And he was definitely a better passer than AD. He was nowhere near the defender that AD was, and didn't have as good of a face up or open court game, or the athleticism. And if we're just talking scoring Pau's best regular season was 20.8 points, and his best playoffs were 21.3 points. AD's worst regular season since his rookie season was 20.8 points (in year 2), which equals Pau's best. Aside from the 2021 when he was hurt against the Suns and had partial games, AD's lowest playoff average was last season, when he averaged 22.6 points, which is over a point higher than Pau's best. His best is 10 points higher.
I don't see how you can sit here and make an argument that Pau is a #1, if in that same argument AD isn't. They are both ideally best suited as #2s. |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: |
Maybe you think someone is using an alter ego because you are the one who came out of nowhere using an alt.
I personally can say I'm not the same person as Outspoken.
Don't know how to prove it other than asking why I would have the foresight to make 8000 posts on one account in 2015 and then 4600 posts on an account starting in 2020... lie in wait for three years, only to begin to suddenly join forces against a 100 post account who doesn't even make any decent, original arguments.
You sound unhinged, dude. I don't which account hurt you so much in the past, but you aren't making any sense. |
Well, you try to tell us that you and Outspoken aren't the same person? I have no proofs, but you can be as defensive as you want. No matter what, I'll respond based on my suspicion, whenever any one of your alter egos makes a post saying "The Lakers overpaid for AD".
At least my argument smash your argument to pieces, make you totally defenseless when using your own words against you, like what you said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
I used this statement against you in a post at 02:51 on 5/31/2023. You dare not respond. Is it because your argument is garbage to begin with?
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | WorthyNum1 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | We overpaid for AD.
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We didn't overpay for AD.
Now I suspect someone is using different aliases to keep preaching the "We overpaid for AD" nonsense. That's only my suspicion, no proof yet. However, the style and the tune are so similar...
However, I am entitled to take my action based on my suspicion.
So I'll let you know, no matter what account you use to preach this "We overpaid for AD", I'll retort. You can count on it... |
AD has never shown with the Lakers that he's able to consistently be the #1 option and HE could lead a team to the playoffs.
He's no Kareem, Shaq, or Pau who all have consistently led teams to the playoffs as the #1 option.
AD is 22-28 without Lebron, and has not shown he could remain healthy.
Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
He's not a player you throw the house at, especially if you have leverage and he's gonna be a FA.
It is what it is now. I'm more about Lakers FO getting better.
Lakers FO did better with the past trade deadline where they weren't gonna overpay and thought about now AND the future. |
See, your tune is so similar to someone else (Bxxxxx) that using another account isn't going to save you.
He was a free agent the following year? but the Lakers had no leverage. Your alter ego said at 10:41 on 5/27/2023:
"I never said there was a guarantee. I said that's what I preferred."
Don't you remember? That's your alter ego's "personal preference". What did it have to do with the Lakers' leverage? Only a fool would think that his personal preference = the Lakers' leverage, that the Pels wouldn't do anything by the 2020 trade deadline and let AD walk as a free agent such that the Lakers could sign him for free...
So your leverage is already refuted by me. Now using another account is not going to save you...
I have no interest if the Lakers front office is getting better. I am only interested in arguing with 3 accounts (alter egos) who claimed that "the Lakers overpaid for AD". You know what I mean |
This comment is so confusing and weird. Lol |
Not at all. Think about one person using multiple accounts posting the same message "We overpaid for AD", acting as if multiple people are joining forces on a topic... |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | Also, he was a free agent the following year and Lakers had leverage.
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I can't stand this argument. Because it never works for the Lakers.
We did the "we have leverage b/c PG13 is a free agent next season." How'd that work out?
Same for Kawhi, he didn't come here.
Sometimes, you just have to trade for a star b/c so much can happen between a trade deadline and free agency.
I don't think it was guaranteed at all that AD would come as a Lakers FA. Could have been traded somewhere that he ended up liking and stayed on, as that team could also offer him the highest salary. |
None of those players are Klutch clients.
We didn't have leverage with PG and he was good friends with Russ.
The same player that rallied behind getting Russ onto the Clippers.
Kawhi didn't wanna play with Lebron, along with a lot of stars.
And none of those players are Klutch clients. |
Eh. you think every Klutch star will sign with the Lakers. Not true. What I know is we blew it on PG/Kawhi (whether that was a good or bad thing isn't my point). PG especially was the whole "we can get him as a FA" thinking that was wrong. |
I believe we had the inside track on PG... f&cked him over for LBJ and burned that bridge.
It's not that we couldn't get him... he was the first star who wanted to come in awhile and we dropped him like a hot potato when LBJ showed interest. So poor management of that situation.
I agree our pursuit of Kawhi was delusional... he was being wined and dined and offered houses or whatever bullsh*t by Mr. Billionaire enabler and we all still thought he might come at the last minute.
AD is a different case... and the strong bond between LBJ and AD over some very rough patches this season has proven this to be true.
I think Klutch and LBJ could have gotten him to wait.
Of course it's not 100%... but man how that team would look today had we signed AD and kept all our young cost controlled assets and picks.
In summary...
PG... lost him due to our own mishandling of him.
Kawhi... agree we were delusional to pursue him
AD... close bond with LBJ and Klutch proven over time. |
Yes, how that team would look like? I've posted this before, since you don't mind repeating the same thing again and again, I dont' mind either.
That team would look like:
LBJ, BI, 'Zo, Kuz, Hart, Hunter.
And after the summer of 2021
LBJ, Westbrick, Hart, Kuz, Hunter
Any championship here? I don't see it.
I speculate that AD would be long gone. The Pels traded him to another team that he liked (like his hometown team), and signed a long term extension. Isn't speculation fun?
Last edited by WorthyNum1 on Sat Jun 03, 2023 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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WorthyNum1
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 194
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: |
He went to the playoffs three years in a row, then missed them the year before the trade. His team got swept all three years. He also missed the playoffs in three of his six seasons in Memphis.
His numbers in those playoffs:
18.5 points (57.1% fg), 5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.5 blocks, 1 steal
21.3 points (48.8% fg), 7.5 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1.8 blocks. 0.5 steals
20.3 points (43.3% fg), 6.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.3 blocks, 0.5 steals
His numbers in the three year Lakers run:
16.9 points (53% fg), 9.3 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.9 blocks, 0.5 steals
18.3 points (58% fg), 10.8 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 2 blocks, 0.8 steals
19.6 points (53.9% fg), 11.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.1 blocks, 0.4 steals
Yeah AD only had two playoff runs with the Pelicans, that isn't entirely on him that his teams stunk.
In those two playoff runs though he averaged:
31.5 points (54% fg), 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 blocks, 1.3 steals
30.1 points (52% fg), 13.4 rebounds, 1.7 assists, 2.3 blocks, 2 steals
He carried his team into the second round before running into the prime Warriors. The #2 on that team was Jrue who averaged 23.7 points. The #3 was Mirotic at 15 points.
In the Lakers title run AD averaged 27.7 points on 57.1% fg shooting. That is far better than Pau ever averaged in any playoffs, his best was 21.3.
Look man, I love Pau. But he isn't on AD's level on either end of the court. He had two things he did exceptionally well. He was a good post player, arguably better than AD. And he was definitely a better passer than AD. He was nowhere near the defender that AD was, and didn't have as good of a face up or open court game, or the athleticism. And if we're just talking scoring Pau's best regular season was 20.8 points, and his best playoffs were 21.3 points. AD's worst regular season since his rookie season was 20.8 points (in year 2), which equals Pau's best. Aside from the 2021 when he was hurt against the Suns and had partial games, AD's lowest playoff average was last season, when he averaged 22.6 points, which is over a point higher than Pau's best. His best is 10 points higher.
I don't see how you can sit here and make an argument that Pau is a #1, if in that same argument AD isn't. They are both ideally best suited as #2s. |
Obviously some people live in a fantasy. They will do anything to support this garbage of "AD isn't that great; we overpaid for AD", including using illusions...
On top of your playoff stats, we can also compare AD's credentials at the Pelicans and Gasol's credentials at the Grizzlies, both struggling teams.
1st team all-NBA
AD: 2015, 2017, 2018
Gasol: none
MVP top 10
AD: 2015, 2017, 2018
Gasol: none
All-defense
AD: 2015, 2017, 2018
Gasol: none
All-star
AD: 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Gasol: 2006
So, we can simply ignore the players' credentials. Just concentrate on Gasol leading the Griz to the playoffs 3 years in a row while AD's Pelicans only making it twice.
See how easy for people to mislead? |
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