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MJST
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 Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| epic_ wrote: | Serious question:
How many years out of his on-going career was he the best guard in the league? Which years?
Same for Magic. |
Curry's been the best guard in the league for 10 years
Magic was the best guard in the league for 12 years
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | I think his '16 Finals performance unfairly soured my opinion of him in the context of all time greats for a while, but when considering the all time greats, he's in that conversation. I said it elsewhere but I like to say he had a 10/10 career. Maybe Jordan's at 9.9 and Curry's at 9.5 but it's more fun to be less granular. That was I can appreciate his 50 point G7 performance instead of being like "wow are people gonna rank him better than Kobe" or something dumb like that |
Holding Curry's 2016 Finals against him is like holding Magic's 82 Finals against him, or his 83 Finals against him where he shot 40% from the field and got swept. Heck in Magic's second year coming off his great Finals performance, they got bounced in the first round, Magic had 5 turnovers per 7 assists and shot 38% from the field despite not taking a single three and had people thinking he was a fraud. Hey on top of that you may as well hold Kobe's 2004 and 2008 Finals against him too, You may as well hold LeBron's 2011 Finals against him as well.
But if you don't for them or allow it to "sour you" on their greatness. Then don't do it for Steph. He already shut everyone up last year and answered every question and critique everyone had been waiting to throw at him and took out the best defensive team in the league with the DPOY at HIS position and destroyed them on route to a ring everyone doubted he'd get. Steph's greatness isn't a question at this point and it never should have been.
My personal Top 10 All-Time list goes
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Magic Johnson
5. LeBron James
6. Steph Curry
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain (fluctuates)
If Curry wins another title before LeBron does, he's in the top 5 conversation whether people like it or not tbh.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| oaktown_dimond wrote: | it's not super complicated as to how teams would use Magic if he played today. The answer is right in front of you... And is still a current Laker. Lebron!
Prime magic would be a point forward just like LBJ. Yeah, I doubt any team would plan on using magic today at the point guard position... But it's not the first time people have referred to lebron as Magic 2.0
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Put Steph in the 1980s and no coach will let him do what's he's doing today.  I think Magic would still flourish in today's NBA. |
Flourish? Probably. He wouldn't have the same transformational impact today. He'd be sort of a rich man's Ben Simmons. He'd be a better passer, a better scorer, much more of a gamer/winner, but not as good of a defender. At the end of his career, he actually became a respectable three point shooter by the standards of the time. Back in the '80s, he was a physical freak in a way that tends to get lost in the mists of time. Other teams figured out quickly that you just couldn't defend him with the point guards of the time. This led to a lot of changes in strategy and tactics, as coaches slowly accepted that a player of that size could actually function as a ballhandler. His impact on the game is why Curry will never pass him in my assessment. |
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That's right. Magic wasn't really a scorer for most of his career, which is why I made the "rich man's Ben Simmons" comment. Magic never would have been the kind of player who broke the all-time scoring record.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Holding Curry's 2016 Finals against him is like holding Magic's 82 Finals against him, or his 83 Finals against him where he shot 40% from the field and got swept. Heck in Magic's second year coming off his great Finals performance, they got bounced in the first round, Magic had 5 turnovers per 7 assists and shot 38% from the field despite not taking a single three and had people thinking he was a fraud. Hey on top of that you may as well hold Kobe's 2004 and 2008 Finals against him too, You may as well hold LeBron's 2011 Finals against him as well.
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Yeah that's kind of my point. It wasn't a fair view of his career. The funny thing is I actually really like Curry and generally liked the Warriors too (except when KD was there). But somehow it took the '22 ring for me to really see Curry as one of the all time greats in the same breath as Kobe/Duncan/LeBron, who are the upper echelon players I got to watch enough to appreciate. TBD on if KD belongs in that tier (for me). |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 11:47 am Post subject: |
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This is why I would rather have a top 10 per 20 year span rather than an all-time top 10.
It is simply impossible to compare vastly different eras of basketball with each other. It's silly to compare Wilt to Steph for example. How do you even begin?
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Simmons was a welfare version of Magic. He never averaged more than 16.9 points or 8.2 assists per game. He was a good defender, but teams didn't have to worry about playing him defensively.
While Magic wasn't a huge scorer for most of his career, he was always a good scorer. Yeah he only averaged over 20 four times, and never above 23.9. But he also never averaged below 16.8 before his retirement, he was typically between 18-22 points, to go along with 10-12 assists, and 6-9 rebounds. He also led the league in steals twice, and in free throw percentage once, for good measure.
He preferred to dish, and was on a stacked team so never had to carry a huge scoring load.
He obviously was no Steph Curry though when it came to shooting or scoring in general. Steph helped changed the game with his shooting. Just as Magic help change the game in regards to a point guards role.
Steph is an all-time great no doubt. If he wins another title, it becomes a more serious conversation. But as it stands Magic has 3 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, 5 titles, and 9 trips to the finals vs. 2 MVPs, 1 Finals MVP, and 4 titles in 6 chances for Steph. I do think in the point guard discussion though those are the only two really in the conversation. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think this guy Earvin Magic Johnson isn't going to be dethroned for a long time
Last time you saw Curry play PF, Center, SF etc?
They both have Fabulous smiles! And are both deeply spiritual and high achieving human beings |
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governator
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Does Steph have a docufiction that made the logo up and arms, does he have an entire east coast city chanting beat San Fran? |
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danzag
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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This is silly.
Steph is an all time great and probably the 2nd greatest PG ever, but he's nowhere NEAR Magic. |
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ducasse
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | tox wrote: | | I think his '16 Finals performance unfairly soured my opinion of him in the context of all time greats for a while, but when considering the all time greats, he's in that conversation. I said it elsewhere but I like to say he had a 10/10 career. Maybe Jordan's at 9.9 and Curry's at 9.5 but it's more fun to be less granular. That was I can appreciate his 50 point G7 performance instead of being like "wow are people gonna rank him better than Kobe" or something dumb like that |
Holding Curry's 2016 Finals against him is like holding Magic's 82 Finals against him, or his 83 Finals against him where he shot 40% from the field and got swept. Heck in Magic's second year coming off his great Finals performance, they got bounced in the first round, Magic had 5 turnovers per 7 assists and shot 38% from the field despite not taking a single three and had people thinking he was a fraud. Hey on top of that you may as well hold Kobe's 2004 and 2008 Finals against him too, You may as well hold LeBron's 2011 Finals against him as well.
But if you don't for them or allow it to "sour you" on their greatness. Then don't do it for Steph. He already shut everyone up last year and answered every question and critique everyone had been waiting to throw at him and took out the best defensive team in the league with the DPOY at HIS position and destroyed them on route to a ring everyone doubted he'd get. Steph's greatness isn't a question at this point and it never should have been.
My personal Top 10 All-Time list goes
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Magic Johnson
5. LeBron James
6. Steph Curry
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain (fluctuates)
If Curry wins another title before LeBron does, he's in the top 5 conversation whether people like it or not tbh. |
No. It's pretty much impossible for Curry to pass LeBron at this point. Championships are team accomplishments and winning 5 vs 4 doesn't mean anything when comparing individual players. Curry also only has one finals MVP which means he wasn't the best performing player in the finals for 3 of the 4 championships. LeBron would have certainly won every championship Curry did with the same supporting cast and he would not have lost in 2016 if they switched teams. LeBron has just been a better all around player than Curry. Nothing will change that.
Last edited by ducasse on Mon May 01, 2023 2:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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hype
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| ducasse wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | tox wrote: | | I think his '16 Finals performance unfairly soured my opinion of him in the context of all time greats for a while, but when considering the all time greats, he's in that conversation. I said it elsewhere but I like to say he had a 10/10 career. Maybe Jordan's at 9.9 and Curry's at 9.5 but it's more fun to be less granular. That was I can appreciate his 50 point G7 performance instead of being like "wow are people gonna rank him better than Kobe" or something dumb like that |
Holding Curry's 2016 Finals against him is like holding Magic's 82 Finals against him, or his 83 Finals against him where he shot 40% from the field and got swept. Heck in Magic's second year coming off his great Finals performance, they got bounced in the first round, Magic had 5 turnovers per 7 assists and shot 38% from the field despite not taking a single three and had people thinking he was a fraud. Hey on top of that you may as well hold Kobe's 2004 and 2008 Finals against him too, You may as well hold LeBron's 2011 Finals against him as well.
But if you don't for them or allow it to "sour you" on their greatness. Then don't do it for Steph. He already shut everyone up last year and answered every question and critique everyone had been waiting to throw at him and took out the best defensive team in the league with the DPOY at HIS position and destroyed them on route to a ring everyone doubted he'd get. Steph's greatness isn't a question at this point and it never should have been.
My personal Top 10 All-Time list goes
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Magic Johnson
5. LeBron James
6. Steph Curry
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain (fluctuates)
If Curry wins another title before LeBron does, he's in the top 5 conversation whether people like it or not tbh. |
No. It's pretty much impossible for Curry to pass LeBron at this point. Championships are team accomplishments and winning 5 vs 4 doesn't mean anything when comparing individual players. Curry also only has one finals MVP which means he wasn't the best performing player in the finals for 3 of the 4 championships. LeBron would have certainly won every championship Curry did with the same supporting cast and he would not have lost in 2016 if they switched teams. LeBron has just been a better all around player than Curry. Nothing will change that. |
haha @ a mostly 1 way player in the top 5.. Nahhhh.. Greatest shooter of all time? Absolutely no doubt but let's pump the brakes on top 5 talk, that's another entire level Curry isn't getting access too imo.
What's even more hilarious are people legitimately acting like there's a real debate with Curry and Bron? Take a look at there individual accomplishments.. There's a pretty massive separation there to say the least. Just watching them play over the last 15-20 years should be obvious enough. |
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LakersInFour
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Brawn13 wrote: | This is why I would hate if warriors win again this year…can you imagine all the steph>Lebron/kobe/magic talk that’ll come up, “Curry is the GOAT” etc…smh
Don’t get me wrong Curry would be top 10 all time if he were to win but cmon…that first ring, no love and Kyrie? That shouldn’t have even gone 6 games. 2nd and 3rd ring…lol, no one in the nba stood a chance the day KD signed the dotted line and we all knew it. |
Injuries are part of the game. The Warriors weren't at full strength in that series either - if my memory serves me correctly they lost Bogut. You could also say Steph misses out on a title due to injury - the Dubs would have smoked Toronto if Klay hadn't gotten injured, let alone Durant.
Titles are titles. You can't discount them selectively, and in the end people won't remember details like that: 50 years from now no one is putting an asterisk on Steph's titles.
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ducasse
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| hype wrote: | | ducasse wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | tox wrote: | | I think his '16 Finals performance unfairly soured my opinion of him in the context of all time greats for a while, but when considering the all time greats, he's in that conversation. I said it elsewhere but I like to say he had a 10/10 career. Maybe Jordan's at 9.9 and Curry's at 9.5 but it's more fun to be less granular. That was I can appreciate his 50 point G7 performance instead of being like "wow are people gonna rank him better than Kobe" or something dumb like that |
Holding Curry's 2016 Finals against him is like holding Magic's 82 Finals against him, or his 83 Finals against him where he shot 40% from the field and got swept. Heck in Magic's second year coming off his great Finals performance, they got bounced in the first round, Magic had 5 turnovers per 7 assists and shot 38% from the field despite not taking a single three and had people thinking he was a fraud. Hey on top of that you may as well hold Kobe's 2004 and 2008 Finals against him too, You may as well hold LeBron's 2011 Finals against him as well.
But if you don't for them or allow it to "sour you" on their greatness. Then don't do it for Steph. He already shut everyone up last year and answered every question and critique everyone had been waiting to throw at him and took out the best defensive team in the league with the DPOY at HIS position and destroyed them on route to a ring everyone doubted he'd get. Steph's greatness isn't a question at this point and it never should have been.
My personal Top 10 All-Time list goes
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Michael Jordan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Magic Johnson
5. LeBron James
6. Steph Curry
7. Tim Duncan
8. Larry Bird
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain (fluctuates)
If Curry wins another title before LeBron does, he's in the top 5 conversation whether people like it or not tbh. |
No. It's pretty much impossible for Curry to pass LeBron at this point. Championships are team accomplishments and winning 5 vs 4 doesn't mean anything when comparing individual players. Curry also only has one finals MVP which means he wasn't the best performing player in the finals for 3 of the 4 championships. LeBron would have certainly won every championship Curry did with the same supporting cast and he would not have lost in 2016 if they switched teams. LeBron has just been a better all around player than Curry. Nothing will change that. |
haha @ a mostly 1 way player in the top 5.. Nahhhh.. Greatest shooter of all time? Absolutely no doubt but let's pump the brakes on top 5 talk, that's another entire level Curry isn't getting access too imo.
What's even more hilarious are people legitimately acting like there's a real debate with Curry and Bron? Take a look at there individual accomplishments.. There's a pretty massive separation there to say the least. Just watching them play over the last 15-20 years should be obvious enough. |
You're absolutely right. Consider Steph's main strength, his scoring. Well, even though Steph has that 3pt shot LeBron has scored almost 17,000 more points. Steph scored 1648 points this past regular season. He would need to maintain his current level of performance until he's 46 just to catch LeBron and that still wouldn't do it because LeBron looks like he's going to play a few more seasons.
Steph has been nowhere near what LeBron has been defensively in his career. He's not been the better rebounder or passer. Not as versatile in being able to play as many positions. Nowhere near as athletic. His All-NBA selections are dwarfed by LeBron 18-8. Finals MVPs 4-1. LeBron has doubled him up for league MVPs. It's not close.
Last edited by ducasse on Mon May 01, 2023 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Serious question:
How many years out of his on-going career was he the best guard in the league? Which years?
Same for Magic. |
Curry's been the best guard in the league for 10 years
Magic was the best guard in the league for 12 years |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
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GOODRICH25
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Serious question:
How many years out of his on-going career was he the best guard in the league? Which years?
Same for Magic. |
Curry's been the best guard in the league for 10 years
Magic was the best guard in the league for 12 years |
How was Curry the best guard before 2015? And in recent years its been Doncic, Harden when he was at his peak
With Magic, Jordan was the best player in the league post his injury
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | epic_ wrote: | Serious question:
How many years out of his on-going career was he the best guard in the league? Which years?
Same for Magic. |
Curry's been the best guard in the league for 10 years
Magic was the best guard in the league for 12 years |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
Anyone that actually knew basketball saw Curry as the best. ESPN only threw Kyrie and Lillard out there as hot takes.
The same way they used to throw Clyde Drexler out there for Jordan and Isaiah Thomas and John Stockton out there for Magic.
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tox
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
I was curious, LeBron "only" did it for 8 years. 2008-2016. 06-07 he got 5th (2nd in 05-06). 16-17 he got 4th (2nd 17-18). |
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Bol
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the sort of thing that makes me wish the 3 point shot never existed. Then a guy like Curry would be limited to what I believe he really is, an excellent player but nowhere near the level of the greatest. But because the 3 is so overpowering relative to other aspects of the game, I suppose he does belong in the conversation. |
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GOODRICH25
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
I was curious, LeBron "only" did it for 8 years. 2008-2016. 06-07 he got 5th (2nd in 05-06). 16-17 he got 4th (2nd 17-18). |
Jordan 1986-87 to 1992-93, then 1995-96 to 1997-98. Technically not 10 straight but he didnt play those 2 years. The years he was eligible he was always top 3. 1985-86 he was injured and his rookie year he finished 5th
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: |
Anyone that actually knew basketball saw Curry as the best. ESPN only threw Kyrie and Lillard out there as hot takes.
The same way they used to throw Clyde Drexler out there for Jordan and Isaiah Thomas and John Stockton out there for Magic. |
I wasn't thinking of Kyrie and Lillard.
The guys who were superior than Curry some of those years were Luke Doncic, Chris Paul, and Harden.
I don't recall any year where people said Clyde Drexler was better than Jordan, or that Stockton and Thomas were better than Magic. I don't believe there was any year where Drexler got more votes for MVP or all-NBA than Jordan did, or any year where Stockton or Thomas got more votes for MVP or all-NBA than Magic did. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| GOODRICH25 wrote: |
Jordan 1986-87 to 1992-93, then 1995-96 to 1997-98. Technically not 10 straight but he didnt play those 2 years. The years he was eligible he was always top 3. 1985-86 he was injured and his rookie year he finished 5th |
I thought of Jordan, but he didn't fit the criteria. He missed one full year for baseball, and then came back the second year, in 94-95, when he played 17 games (and he would have been eligible for any honors that year). If you are going to give guys a pass for years they were injured a good chunk of the season or sat out, he would have 10 in a row. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
I was curious, LeBron "only" did it for 8 years. 2008-2016. 06-07 he got 5th (2nd in 05-06). 16-17 he got 4th (2nd 17-18). |
I think Bird is another guy who was top 3 in MVP voting for 8 years in a row.
If you make it top 5 in MVP voting, I think Lebron had 13 years in a row. Not sure if anyone beats that. Kareem had 12 years in a row in the top 5. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
I was curious, LeBron "only" did it for 8 years. 2008-2016. 06-07 he got 5th (2nd in 05-06). 16-17 he got 4th (2nd 17-18). |
I think Bird is another guy who was top 3 in MVP voting for 8 years in a row.
If you make it top 5 in MVP voting, I think Lebron had 13 years in a row. Not sure if anyone beats that. Kareem had 12 years in a row in the top 5. |
If you go to 8 years, add Russell. If you expand to top 4, he's got 11.
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GOODRICH25
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | GOODRICH25 wrote: |
Jordan 1986-87 to 1992-93, then 1995-96 to 1997-98. Technically not 10 straight but he didnt play those 2 years. The years he was eligible he was always top 3. 1985-86 he was injured and his rookie year he finished 5th |
I thought of Jordan, but he didn't fit the criteria. He missed one full year for baseball, and then came back the second year, in 94-95, when he played 17 games (and he would have been eligible for any honors that year). If you are going to give guys a pass for years they were injured a good chunk of the season or sat out, he would have 10 in a row. |
Does the 17 games count though? I mean if he was there but out injured, missed games, I'd say sure. But he was away from the sport. If he played the whole year, he probably sneaks into the top 3 that year too
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: |
Magic had 9 straight years where he was top 3 every year in MVP voting. I don't think anyone in NBA history has matched or beat that. He was also first-team all-NBA each of those years. During that span, I doubt anyone would disagree he was the best point guard in the league each of those 9 years.
From 2014 to 2022, Curry was the best point guard in the league during that overall period. But there were several times in that span where Curry wasn't regarded as the best or even second best point guard in specific years. |
I was curious, LeBron "only" did it for 8 years. 2008-2016. 06-07 he got 5th (2nd in 05-06). 16-17 he got 4th (2nd 17-18). |
I think Bird is another guy who was top 3 in MVP voting for 8 years in a row.
If you make it top 5 in MVP voting, I think Lebron had 13 years in a row. Not sure if anyone beats that. Kareem had 12 years in a row in the top 5. |
If you go to 8 years, add Russell. If you expand to top 4, he's got 11
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An interesting thing about Russell is he had years where he won the MVP award, but was on the all-NBA team second team while Wilt was on the all-NBA first team. I think people saw the all-NBA team as an individual honor, and the MVP as more of a team honor. I believe Russell is the only MVP who didn't make all-NBA first team.
There have been several years where the DPoY wasn't on the first all-D team, but that may reflect that the two awards had different groups of voters. |
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