Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 8:25 pm Post subject: LAKERS -at- NUGGETS - 5-16-23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings
Rocky Start in the Rocky Mountains... The Lakers struggled out of the gates. The big problem early on was offensive boards and transition scores for the Nuggets. This is more an effort and energy issue than anything.
There was one sequence early on where they gave up 4 offensive boards before a score. Jokic dominated early with 8 points, 12 boards and 5 assists in the first quarter.
Meanwhile, the Laker guards struggled. They missed good to great looks. The trio of Russell/Reaves/Schröder had just 10 points in the first half, while the Nuggets guards scored with ease. The Lakers trailed 72-54 at the half.
Last time we met this team in the playoffs, KCP was on our side. Tonight, he lit the Lakers up from the perimeter in the third as they fell back by 21. The Lakers battled back late in the quarter, cutting the lead down to 11, before Jokic drained a rainbow three at the buzzer with AD smothered all over him to stretch the lead back up to 106-92.
While the Lakers scored 38 points and shot 75% in the third, they held the Nuggets to their lowest scoring quarter in the third -- 34 points. That’s a problem. Keep it to the mid 20s and you have a ball game.
With Jokic on the bench to start the fourth, this would be the Lakers chance to make up some ground. The Lakers cut it to 8 (could have been 6, but Murray made a heave over pressure at the buzzer). The Lakers forced the timeout and the Nuggets brought Jokic back after 2 minutes of rest.
The Lakers made a key switch here. They put Rui on Jokic defensively, allowing AD to roam off Gordon in the paint. They started to lock in.
LeBron methodically hunted mismatches with Reaves bringing Murray over to him. Reaves would knock down big threes. Finally, the Lakers had the ball down three in the final minute. Bron got Murray on him but missed a three. Shortly later on our next possession, he’d lose the handle in the paint for another turnover with 11 seconds left. The Lakers fell 132-126…plenty of points, not enough D early on.
Great job digging out of a 21-point second half hole. Despite losing the game, the Lakers have the Nuggets needing to make an adjustment in the next game (assuming Rui starts). All we want is a split on the road. Hopefully, they can get it.
LeBron -- -- Hunting those switches. Gordon is a good defender, but the Nuggets are switching really quickly off Bron. This allowed him to get rid of Gordon and attack mismatches. Late in the game when Gordon tried to stay with Bron, Reaves made him pay. You need a threat like that to help make the opponent pay. A few of Bron’s assists came off offensive boards. He’d get the ball and instantly find someone and good things happened. Nearly a triple-double from Bron. Just an assist shy. Had Reaves just knocked down one more of those late, he would have had it and we might have had a different outcome. But the Lakers just can’t put themselves in a hole like they did. Guys need to come out active and with a sense of urgency. Hopefully, Bron can get them fired up (AD needed a fire lit under him on some hustle plays in that first half that weren’t there). “It took us a half to get into the game,” he said with AD sitting next to him. “That was pretty much the ball game right there. We got to understand we’ve got to start from the tip off.” Poor final minute from Bron in this one. Down three, he had Murray on him and settled for a three and missed. He’d also cough the ball up in the paint with 10 seconds left. Margin for error was too small and that was that. The Stats: He scored 26 points on 9-16 shooting (0-4 from three, 8-11 from the line) to go with 12 boards (3 offensive), 9 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers and 1 foul in 40 minutes. He was a -6.
Davis -- -- Man, that Jokic chuck from three at the end of the fourth with AD on him (and that heave from Murray that went in over Bron), came back to cost them. Defensively, really not thrilled at all with AD’s start to this game. He was not hustling and playing at full speed. In the second half, he also sagged off Green unnecessarily as the ball swung strong side and gave up a three without a challenge. Little things and efforts that added up on the road. You can’t do that. Once we switched Rui on Jokic and allowed AD to roam off non-shooters, the game changed. They held the Nuggets to 26 points in that fourth. Just needed better on that end. Offensively, he was dominant himself. The Nuggets didn’t have an answer for him. He was able to get into his floaters and midrange. He’d attack mismatches and drew FTs. We ran that wide pin out of a timeout, but this time as a pin in for him and he buried a corner three. The Stats: He scored 40 points on 14-23 shooting (1-1 from three, 11-11 from the line) to go with 10 boards, 3 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks (uh, this is wrong) and 3 fouls in 41 minutes. He was a -5.
Russell -- -- Despite a better third quarter, he was still a -25 with 8 points on 4-11 after three quarters. He watched the other guards close this game. Really not great on either end of the floor. Offensively, he should be slicing up the poor defense and setting up teammates or scoring. He’s adjusted in other series. We really needed more from him in this one to get the W. In the second half, he got a couple of turnarounds in the post and hit a pull-up at the FT line. He was missing some good looks at three. I don’t like how guys like Brown took it to him with ease for scores. In 2020, the Lakers basically had Rondo as that second playmaker. We’ve got D’lo, Reaves and Dennis this team. We need to take advantage of that. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 4-11 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 3 assists, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 26 minutes. He was a -25.
Reaves -- -- He’s a baller, man. Dropped 23 points and 8 assists in his first game of the Western Conference Finals. In the previous series, the Warriors did a really good job taking away the paint and that had Reaves trying to figure out what was there for him. This series, the Nuggets are going to be the easiest defensive team he’s faced. Hopefully, he continues to tee off on them. It was a slow start in this one. While he wasn’t scoring at a high clip early, he was finding teammates for good looks. He’d have a three and a layup off an inbounds (oop type of layup on a play he and D’lo have been trying to connect on all playoffs). He’d score 18 of his points in the second half. He’d get into the midrange, draw fouls and hit threes. The threes late in this game brought the Lakers back. Bron was hunting Murray and Reaves would bring him over to deal with Bron. That would result in some good looks. He’d sink five threes in this game. His form looked really smooth, you could see it in his legs. That rest between series and then no longer having to chase shooters around for two and half miles each game maybe coming to play a little, too. He tied Kobe and DFish for most threes in a 4-game span with 15. Good job in a hostile environment on the road by our second-year hooper. “We went out and competed in the second half,” Reaves said, mentioning they just played harder. “I really think it was just effort.” The Stats: He scored 23 points on 7-14 shooting (5-9 from three, 4-4 from the line) to go with 2 boards, 8 assists and 5 fouls in 42 minutes. He was a -3.
Schröder -- -- He got the Murray assignment to start. You could see him at one point looking back at the bench after going under the screen and giving up a three. In previous games, they have run defenders under screens going to Murray’s right previously. Dennis did that and we gave up a three, and he was like, are you guys sure? He fought over then late in the game and did a good job recovering. You should always try to fight over them if you can. Some of the screen plays the Nuggets run require fighting through double screens or switching on those (and that’s tough…er, tuff?!). Good effort from Dennis. I’d like to see him get to the rim/line a little more. He just sank a couple of threes in this game. The Stats: He scored 6 point son 2-3 shooting (2-2 from three) to go with 3 boards, 5 assists, 2 turnovers and 3 fouls in 32 minutes. He was a -6.
Hachimura -- -- I wanted Rui to start instead of Dennis going into this series. This is a team we can go big with for a variety of reasons. Offensively, the Nuggets switch a lot, he can take advantage of that and did in this game. Smalls and poor defenders will get posted up. If they sag off him, he can knock down threes (1-1 in this game). Defensively, the perimeter guys aren’t quite as mobile as the last series, so he should be able to hang more. So as the game went along, he saw more and more minutes. Finally, we put him on Jokic late in the game and this allowed AD to help in the paint when Rui would get backed down. We will need to send doubles, but the key is our mobility and ability to cover ground around that. The Stats: He scored 17 points on 8-11 shooting (1-1 from three) to go with 1 assist, 1 block and 4 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a +10.
Vanderbilt -- -- Out of the starting lineup for the second game in a row. It’s hard to have both him and AD on the floor offensively. The lack of perimeter shooting makes it easy on the D. He came off the bench to run with our smaller lineups that have better floor spacing. Here, it’s easier for him to get into the dunker spot and still keep our spacing. No shots or scores, but I will take the +5 in 10 minutes over a -10. The Stats: He didn’t shoot or score and had 1 board, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 turnover and 3 fouls in 10 minutes. He was a +5.
Walker IV -- -- His scoring ability kept him in the mix in this game. Beasley and Brown both not in the rotation. He sank a couple of threes in the first half for his only scores. I wish he rebounded like Max. We need more help from our guards there. He’s got to play hungry and get after everything. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-6 shooting (2-4 from three) to go with 2 boards, 2 steals and 1 foul in 20 minutes. He was a +3.
Ham -- -- Key Moment: Going small at the start. The team played with some very poor energy and Ham mentioned that as a problem to start. They weren’t mobile enough and putting bodies on guys. It was just a mess with no one getting boards and no one getting back in transition. The Lakers fell back huge to start the game and it took them all game to try to dig out of it. Trail by just 5 in the first instead of 12 and you’re right there in this road game.
Key Substitution: Rui off the bench. Ham realized as the game went along that he should be playing Rui more in a bigger trio of AD/Rui/Bron. AD is able to zone in the paint and grab boards. Should start him in the next one. Can’t see why he wouldn’t. The problem is, if you start him in this game that you catch them off guard early and maybe you steal this game. Nuggets will now work on a couple key things and this will be one of them. Let’s see how they adjust.
Key Stats: A 13-2 advantage on the offense glass for the Nuggets in the first half (Nuggets ended up with a 47-30 advantage on the glass). A 17-6 advantage on the break in the first half. Making things too easy for them. The Lakers won the break 7-2 in the second half. This whole game was about that awful start.
Coach’s Challenge: The Nuggets challenged a foul called on Murray in the fourth, which would have been his fifth. They won the challenge, the foul was given to Jokic, keeping Murray with just four. Shortly later, the Lakers challenged a foul on some good defense by Schröder on Murray pulling up for a jumper. Looked like a bad review, but Schröder had a slight touch on the arm on the gather (Van Gundy in the broadcast challenge Javie’s review, saying Murray grabbed Schröder before that…Javie said he didn’t see it, lol). Lakers could have used that stop (just let them play in those hand battles).
Love Ham for adjustments he made during playoffs but what he did tonight to start the game was shocking and incompetent at the same time...way overthinking it. Yes, the 3 guard lineup worked v GS since DS was able to stick on Curry as part of the force Curry to pass or have tough shots strategy, vs a team whose biggest guy on the floor is typically 6'8.
Vs the Nugs? Baffled by the decision. The nugs are, size wise, more like the Grizz. It made zero sense to just not have Vando start (GS just played him off the floor due to their style). Its hard to not point at those shifts...to begin the game AND start the second half as not being major factors in the loss. I mean what part of being outrebounded 36-13 in the first half and being unable to stop the Nugs was Ham not getting?
In any event, when all went to hell (down 20) and the denver crowd smelling blood, they finally tossed out the 3 guard lineup, used vando and rui, and suddenly...stops were coming.
Now , we will see if this carries over. I will say this. if Denver shoots this well, it means the Laker D was neutralized, and they will win the series. Lakers have to make this much more of a slog fest like it was in the 4th.
No expectation, just hoping the fellas can take the split. Denver is very proud home team, and this the first series this playoffs Lakers are behind. Am dissapointed a really nice offensive game by AD went to waste, but hey...if your d gonna struggle like that, an L coming. _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
Well I have hope because there is no way Denver will shoot lights out from 3 all game again. It seemed like their whole team couldn’t miss. Even still we got the lead down to three near the end of the game. If DLO, Reeves, and LeBron weren’t missing everything in the first half we might of won.
Next game we can’t let the Nuggets dominate the boards. I know they will likely out rebound us, but it can’t be such a huge disparity. Amazing it was so close at the end considering how much they outplayed us in some key categories.
And LeBron please stop the “Hero” ball at critical moments of the game. The worst thing he can do is chuck up a three in a must score situation. He needs to attack to either score or kick to a real shooter, or better yet let Reeves run the offense.
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though. _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5721 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 11:14 pm Post subject:
Thanks, DB.
Man, the rebounding was just atrocious in the first half (and even more so in the first quarter). I distinclty remember LeBron just watching as Gordon snagged a rebound in the paint and put it in. Also MPJ shooting right over the outstreched arms of Reaves. All that and they still had a chance to win. I just don't know it it was them or us who shot our shot.
Welp, hopefully they can find the strength and energy to at least stay in the game long enough to give themselves a chance. But the altitude and the excruciating game schedule could be too much to overcome.
Jokic can either back Rui down and deal with AD helping, or he can shoot over Rui from 16 out. I would take contested Jokic jumpers from 16 any day. His shotmaking is frankly incredible and he'd probably make some of those, but we'd take that over what we actually got.
The Nuggets' defense is so porous it makes me wonder just how much we can get away with offensively. I know, DB, you're worried about spacing with AD and Vando. Maybe that's right. But for example, you could convince me that our starting lineup should be Schroder/ Reaves/ Rui/ LeBron/ AD -- do we really need DLO's shooting/playmaking over Schroder's defense, if we're just going to hunting Murray over and over and over and over?
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
We'll see how the adjustments go.
Here:
He provides basketball analysis, instead of talking head "analysis." Givves insight into strategies teams deploy and what he anticipates counters will be deployed, etc. Basically the only analyst I like listening to at this point on any consistent basis after these games.
And, yes, he watched the same game as you _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
I think Ham needs to fine tune our defensive assignment. Here my thoughts:
Vando - KCP
Reeves - Murray
Rui - Jokic
AD - Gordon
LBJ - MPJ
MPJ is shooting over Reeves easily, I think you need a taller defender on him, Dennis is too small to guard Murray. I think whole team to wear Jokic out with AD, Rui or LBJ defending him. I don't think Russell and Dennis should start against Denver as they are much bigger and stronger. Ham needs to stop his 3 guards line-up which is killing us on rebounding. We are matching smaller defender on bigger players. LBJ and Reeves can handle the ball, I don't think we can beat Denver offensive so we need to be strong defensively.
Ham gave the appearance of a coach who was figuring things out on the fly rather than one who had a coherent game plan coming in. Which is odd considering almost every pundit and poster had suggested Vando starting and/or Rui playing heavy minutes. The strangest part was Ham's persistence with the starters through almost 9 minutes of the third quarter. It just left way too much of a hole for the Lakers to dig themselves out of.
My worry is that Ham wasted a big opportunity last night. Either you make your adjustment at the right time in game 1, in order to give yourself the chance to win it (he didn't), or you wait for game 2 so that your opponent has a hard time making its own adjustments. Ham waiting for so long to make his big move in game 1 gave the Nugs enough of a preview of our gameplan moving forward that any element of surprise has been taken away, and they can spend the next two days preparing for it.
Thanks, DB! _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns".
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
We'll see how the adjustments go.
Here:
He provides basketball analysis, instead of talking head "analysis." Givves insight into strategies teams deploy and what he anticipates counters will be deployed, etc. Basically the only analyst I like listening to at this point on any consistent basis after these games.
And, yes, he watched the same game as you
I went by YOUR summary of what he supposedly said, which is that "Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment" moving forward, and not one syllable of my counter response to that was unreasonable.
The main thing I pushed back on was any idea that I suggested that Rui going 1v1 vs. Jokic is the key to victory. It was not. Even in 2020 it wan't D12 alone to "stop" Jokic, but to slow him down while shading him towards help as needed (or having help come in through guards who poked at the ball in hard double teams).
The main adjustment that had some success last night was AD coming off the weak side to challenge Jokic (as opposed to guarding him directly) while he is focused on posting up another Laker with some size.
It worked beautifully with Rui doing the honors, and frankly, better than I expected because Hachi had enough confidence and defensive IQ to REALLY challenge Jokic's spin away jumper knowing that if he tried to go to the basket instead, AD would easily challenge him there.
In the end, it's team work on that end of the floor that can produce positive (not perfect!) results. Again, this allows the strong side Laker defensive guard to defend the three point line better too because they can stay home, unlike the first half where they kept leaving to help AD and we got burned repeatedly. When all the Lakers are capable of fulfilling their roles, then only Gordon is open for three on the weak side, and we can live with that as a result.
If there's some talking head out there that also sees where this was a positive for Los Angeles last night (and in this series for this specific type of sequence), good for him.
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
We'll see how the adjustments go.
Here:
He provides basketball analysis, instead of talking head "analysis." Givves insight into strategies teams deploy and what he anticipates counters will be deployed, etc. Basically the only analyst I like listening to at this point on any consistent basis after these games.
And, yes, he watched the same game as you
I went by YOUR summary of what he supposedly said, which is that "Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment" moving forward, and not one syllable of my counter response to that was unreasonable.
The main thing I pushed back on was any idea that I suggested that Rui going 1v1 vs. Jokic is the key to victory. It was not. Even in 2020 it wan't D12 alone to "stop" Jokic, but to slow him down while shading him towards help as needed (or having help come in through guards who poked at the ball in hard double teams).
The main adjustment that had some success last night was AD coming off the weak side to challenge Jokic (as opposed to guarding him directly) while he is focused on posting up another Laker with some size.
It worked beautifully with Rui doing the honors, and frankly, better than I expected because Hachi had enough confidence and defensive IQ to REALLY challenge Jokic's spin away jumper knowing that if he tried to go to the basket instead, AD would easily challenge him there.
In the end, it's team work on that end of the floor that can produce positive (not perfect!) results. Again, this allows the strong side Laker defensive guard to defend the three point line better too because they can stay home, unlike the first half where they kept leaving to help AD and we got burned repeatedly. When all the Lakers are capable of fulfilling their roles, then only Gordon is open for three on the weak side, and we can live with that as a result.
If there's some talking head out there that also sees where this was a positive for Los Angeles last night (and in this series for this specific type of sequence), good for him.
I was just introducing his show to you, not critiquing your points or attempting any slight. 😎 _________________ "One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
We'll see how the adjustments go.
Here:
He provides basketball analysis, instead of talking head "analysis." Givves insight into strategies teams deploy and what he anticipates counters will be deployed, etc. Basically the only analyst I like listening to at this point on any consistent basis after these games.
And, yes, he watched the same game as you
I went by YOUR summary of what he supposedly said, which is that "Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment" moving forward, and not one syllable of my counter response to that was unreasonable.
The main thing I pushed back on was any idea that I suggested that Rui going 1v1 vs. Jokic is the key to victory. It was not. Even in 2020 it wan't D12 alone to "stop" Jokic, but to slow him down while shading him towards help as needed (or having help come in through guards who poked at the ball in hard double teams).
The main adjustment that had some success last night was AD coming off the weak side to challenge Jokic (as opposed to guarding him directly) while he is focused on posting up another Laker with some size.
It worked beautifully with Rui doing the honors, and frankly, better than I expected because Hachi had enough confidence and defensive IQ to REALLY challenge Jokic's spin away jumper knowing that if he tried to go to the basket instead, AD would easily challenge him there.
In the end, it's team work on that end of the floor that can produce positive (not perfect!) results. Again, this allows the strong side Laker defensive guard to defend the three point line better too because they can stay home, unlike the first half where they kept leaving to help AD and we got burned repeatedly. When all the Lakers are capable of fulfilling their roles, then only Gordon is open for three on the weak side, and we can live with that as a result.
If there's some talking head out there that also sees where this was a positive for Los Angeles last night (and in this series for this specific type of sequence), good for him.
I was just introducing his show to you, not critiquing your points or attempting any slight. 😎
Ah, it's all good then. I'll give him a listen later today. My cousin also does Laker talk on social media so I know what it is like to want someone to do well with that kind of platform.
The main reason we lost is that Denver out played us.
The second reason we lost is that Ham insisted on one of his favorite small ball three guard line ups and the Nuggets were able to EASILY shoot over us, or punish a guard down low in transition when AD was not there to help (DLo in poarticular was targeted over and over again).
The third reason we lost is the terrible job on the boards early on, due in great part to Ham's Hobbit Heroes (tm).
The fourth reason we lost was all the silly fouls that added up over time in certain quarters.
The fifth reason we lost is poor decision making, none worse than the subject of my signature below that I retired when the playoffs started. As soon as the ball went up, I knew we lost the game.
~~~~~
Oh well. Kudos to Ham and the team for finally addressing Jokic's favorite offensive play, which was to back "skinny" AD down low for an easy five footer or kick it out to Murray / KCP for the open three when their defender came down to help AD.
Once we put Rui on Jokic in the 4th, that play disappeared with AD as the weak-side help defender, allowing the Laker guards to stay with their opponents at the 3P line.
It was encouraging to see the come back, which suggests that we can win at least one in Denver (hopefully Game 2) unless the Nuggets have another dominant play sequence to throw at us.
And Ham.... bigger line ups EARLIER next time, please!
Timpf (the Volume) predicts Jokic will likely just shoot over Rui as an adjustment. I did notice AD would often be nearby when Jokic was backing down Rui to act as the bother for that, though.
I don't know who that is, but he wasn't watching the same game I was watching. I mean, did you see what happened the last time Jokic attempted that post up play on Rui?
He slowly took him down just below the FT line and didn't want to press any further because AD was lurking there (off of A. Gordon) and already blocked his shot once. So Jokic predictably did a 180 spin fade away jumper back towards the FT line and it barely made it to the rim. I say predictably because Rui read it perfectly as he jumped forward to challenge the shot (and almost got a finger on it) about as well as can be expected. We will never get 100% success of course, but playing it the right way defensively will at least lower its efficiency by a lot (as long as we have three bigs out there, and the guard defending the 3P shooter doesn't leave his man).
My thinking is that Denver will start milking the high pick and roll between Jokic and Murray more in that same scenario. It works well when we go under the screen with a little Laker defender to give up the open three (sigh), which is why I am begging Ham to put bigger players on Murray for more of the playoffs, and direct them to fight over the screen. He shoots too easily over our small guards (though I like how Schroeder can stay in front of him when he drives).
We'll see how the adjustments go.
Malone will make adjustments when Rui is defending Jokic. Our benefit is that the switch allows AD to be the most effective as a weakside defender and to force Gordon to shoot.
The 1/5 S&R between Murray & Jokic definitely needs to adjustment that will limit airspace for Murray's shots.
Jokic is an amazing center player that at time outran our defenders in their transition offense - that can NOT happen and it is not strategy (just effort)
DLo disappeared and didn't make any meaningful impact. With DLo/DS/Reeves/Walker not forced to run marathons on every play during the GS series, they should be able to get their "legs" together in the high attitude.
If we are forcing Jokic to shoot over Rui/AD, the odds are in our favor. Hopefully we will make the Nuggets feel our bodies and make them work hard on offense.
As noted, by not getting rebounds, it takes away the strength of our defense in the half-court sets.
Reeves was Money
DS was a pest
AD busted his but
LBR was orchestrating
Rui showed up
Who else will come to Da Dance
Thanks for this review!!!
Appreciated Legs' analysis on ESPN
Last edited by A Mad Chinaman on Wed May 17, 2023 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 22 Apr 2001 Posts: 1677 Location: Cerritos, California
Posted: Wed May 17, 2023 9:07 am Post subject:
Rui isn' stopping Jokic. Jokic is a two-time mvp. I partly think it had less to do with Rui and more to do with Jokic. He played more than 40 minutes when he usually plays around 33 minutes. He will fatigue if we keep the pace up. I think our best bet is to tire him out so that he become less productive as the game goes on.
Rui isn' stopping Jokic. Jokic is a two-time mvp. I partly think it had less to do with Rui and more to do with Jokic. He played more than 40 minutes when he usually plays around 33 minutes. He will fatigue if we keep the pace up. I think our best bet is to tire him out so that he become less productive as the game goes on.
It’s always about different looks. Same thing we did with Steph…we threw Vando, Dennis and some Reaves. We also didn’t shy away from them trying to get AD on him.
Limiting Jokic will be a team effort with AD, Rui, Lebron and even Gabriel and Tristan just for different looks.
In addition to just really hot shooting, we just can’t let Murray do what he did last night. He is literally what makes them go from a good offensive team to a championship worthy offense.
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-- Hunting those switches. Gordon is a good defender, but the Nuggets are switching really quickly off Bron. This allowed him to get rid of Gordon and attack mismatches. Late in the game when Gordon tried to stay with Bron, Reaves made him pay. You need a threat like that to help make the opponent pay. A few of Bron’s assists came off offensive boards. He’d get the ball and instantly find someone and good things happened. Nearly a triple-double from Bron. Just an assist shy. Had Reaves just knocked down one more of those late, he would have had it and we might have had a different outcome. But the Lakers just can’t put themselves in a hole like they did. Guys need to come out active and with a sense of urgency. Hopefully, Bron can get them fired up (AD needed a fire lit under him on some hustle plays in that first half that weren’t there). “It took us a half to get into the game,” he said with AD sitting next to him. “That was pretty much the ball game right there. We got to understand we’ve got to start from the tip off.” Poor final minute from Bron in this one. Down three, he had Murray on him and settled for a three and missed. He’d also cough the ball up in the paint with 10 seconds left. Margin for error was too small and that was that. 
-- Man, that Jokic chuck from three at the end of the fourth with AD on him (and that heave from Murray that went in over Bron), came back to cost them. Defensively, really not thrilled at all with AD’s start to this game. He was not hustling and playing at full speed. In the second half, he also sagged off Green unnecessarily as the ball swung strong side and gave up a three without a challenge. Little things and efforts that added up on the road. You can’t do that. Once we switched Rui on Jokic and allowed AD to roam off non-shooters, the game changed. They held the Nuggets to 26 points in that fourth. Just needed better on that end. Offensively, he was dominant himself. The Nuggets didn’t have an answer for him. He was able to get into his floaters and midrange. He’d attack mismatches and drew FTs. We ran that wide pin out of a timeout, but this time as a pin in for him and he buried a corner three. 
-- Despite a better third quarter, he was still a -25 with 8 points on 4-11 after three quarters. He watched the other guards close this game. Really not great on either end of the floor. Offensively, he should be slicing up the poor defense and setting up teammates or scoring. He’s adjusted in other series. We really needed more from him in this one to get the W. In the second half, he got a couple of turnarounds in the post and hit a pull-up at the FT line. He was missing some good looks at three. I don’t like how guys like Brown took it to him with ease for scores. In 2020, the Lakers basically had Rondo as that second playmaker. We’ve got D’lo, Reaves and Dennis this team. We need to take advantage of that. 
-- He’s a baller, man. Dropped 23 points and 8 assists in his first game of the Western Conference Finals. In the previous series, the Warriors did a really good job taking away the paint and that had Reaves trying to figure out what was there for him. This series, the Nuggets are going to be the easiest defensive team he’s faced. Hopefully, he continues to tee off on them. It was a slow start in this one. While he wasn’t scoring at a high clip early, he was finding teammates for good looks. He’d have a three and a layup off an inbounds (oop type of layup on a play he and D’lo have been trying to connect on all playoffs). He’d score 18 of his points in the second half. He’d get into the midrange, draw fouls and hit threes. The threes late in this game brought the Lakers back. Bron was hunting Murray and Reaves would bring him over to deal with Bron. That would result in some good looks. He’d sink five threes in this game. His form looked really smooth, you could see it in his legs. That rest between series and then no longer having to chase shooters around for two and half miles each game maybe coming to play a little, too. He tied Kobe and DFish for most threes in a 4-game span with 15. Good job in a hostile environment on the road by our second-year hooper. “We went out and competed in the second half,” Reaves said, mentioning they just played harder. “I really think it was just effort.” 
-- He got the Murray assignment to start. You could see him at one point looking back at the bench after going under the screen and giving up a three. In previous games, they have run defenders under screens going to Murray’s right previously. Dennis did that and we gave up a three, and he was like, are you guys sure? He fought over then late in the game and did a good job recovering. You should always try to fight over them if you can. Some of the screen plays the Nuggets run require fighting through double screens or switching on those (and that’s tough…er, tuff?!). Good effort from Dennis. I’d like to see him get to the rim/line a little more. He just sank a couple of threes in this game. 
-- I wanted Rui to start instead of Dennis going into this series. This is a team we can go big with for a variety of reasons. Offensively, the Nuggets switch a lot, he can take advantage of that and did in this game. Smalls and poor defenders will get posted up. If they sag off him, he can knock down threes (1-1 in this game). Defensively, the perimeter guys aren’t quite as mobile as the last series, so he should be able to hang more. So as the game went along, he saw more and more minutes. Finally, we put him on Jokic late in the game and this allowed AD to help in the paint when Rui would get backed down. We will need to send doubles, but the key is our mobility and ability to cover ground around that. 
-- Out of the starting lineup for the second game in a row. It’s hard to have both him and AD on the floor offensively. The lack of perimeter shooting makes it easy on the D. He came off the bench to run with our smaller lineups that have better floor spacing. Here, it’s easier for him to get into the dunker spot and still keep our spacing. No shots or scores, but I will take the +5 in 10 minutes over a -10. 
-- His scoring ability kept him in the mix in this game. Beasley and Brown both not in the rotation. He sank a couple of threes in the first half for his only scores. I wish he rebounded like Max. We need more help from our guards there. He’s got to play hungry and get after everything. 
-- Key Moment: Going small at the start. The team played with some very poor energy and Ham mentioned that as a problem to start. They weren’t mobile enough and putting bodies on guys. It was just a mess with no one getting boards and no one getting back in transition. The Lakers fell back huge to start the game and it took them all game to try to dig out of it. Trail by just 5 in the first instead of 12 and you’re right there in this road game.
