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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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 Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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yo (bleep) this guy
Vincent/Lewis/FRP for WCJ
pls Mitch make it happen |
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Inverse
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Joined: 27 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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he's really bad. Surprised they havent tried changing his shot to having a high set point.
Not sure if its possible but if his bball IQ doesnt raise by a factor of 10x soon then he'll be playing in China next year
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He's my GOAT |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Inverse wrote: | he's really bad. Surprised they havent tried changing his shot to having a high set point.
Not sure if its possible but if his bball IQ doesnt raise by a factor of 10x soon then he'll be playing in China next year |
Unfortunately we gave him a contract for another year 
Salary filler! Salary filler! |
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MookieBetts50
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Joined: 22 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2024 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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GG Jackson  |
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MJST
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Posts: 29784
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | He is regressing and has not looked good in every summer league games.
He is suppose to improve from last year. |
+ one year in the g-league. |
He looks more or less the same he looked in the G-League, people just ignored that so they could hate on JHS who was playing great.
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Dominic1981
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Absolute waste of a roster spot.
Bronny, Lewis, JHS, Reddish, Castlelon…too much junk on the roster. |
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deal
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Joined: 17 Aug 2008
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Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Dominic1981 wrote: | Absolute waste of a roster spot.
Bronny, Lewis, JHS, Reddish, Castlelon…too much junk on the roster. |
Totally. People try to rationalize each little play but these guys are pretty
limited.
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Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | Absolute waste of a roster spot.
Bronny, Lewis, JHS, Reddish, Castlelon…too much junk on the roster. |
Totally. People try to rationalize each little play but these guys are pretty
limited. |
Two show upside against G-league competition and get shamed.
Everyone else struggles and gets excuses.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:26 am Post subject: |
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*whispers* I haven't given up on him. It's still early and he's still young. Still has all the tools that had people putting him as a top 20 pick last year.
But man does he play with a low feel for the game.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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Dominic1981
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
That’s why the multi year deals for these scrubs are killers for teams bc you can usually tell who can play and who can’t after the first year. It’d be better for the Lakers if they could swap out the 10 thru 15 roster spots each year than be stuck with these dudes for years |
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LakersRGolden
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
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Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | he's really bad. Surprised they havent tried changing his shot to having a high set point.
Not sure if its possible but if his bball IQ doesnt raise by a factor of 10x soon then he'll be playing in China next year |
Unfortunately we gave him a contract for another year
Salary filler! Salary filler! |
A whopping $100K guaranteed next year. Stretch him to reduce it to 20K per year. |
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Atticus
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Something like 80% of second round picks are out of the league in around 5 years (https://sportsanalytics.studentorg.berkeley.edu/articles/trash-or-treasure.html). But the mindset of swapping these end of bench development guys year after year is how you end up unable to keep cheap prospects around your core roster. A 2-year deal for THT, who "showed something" as a first year player, led to us having to pay $10M/yr to retain him when he was a third year player. He was making more than anyone in his class at that point other than the highest lotto picks. We ran into a similar issue with Max Christie, who didn't show anything as a first year player (and looked totally lost in his first SPL) but had a much stronger second year. Because we didn't give him a 3 year deal, we had to deal with an extension very early, and now he's making more than many first round picks in his class. Obviously if your chance of success is 20% you're gambling. But you're gambling money that is below a veteran minimum contract.
The idea that not many rotational players gradually develop from the G League is also a pretty Lakers-centric view. Miami has been able to consistently identify undrafted talent that they've developed for 1-2 years in G League and have eventually become core rotation pieces. Nunn, Robinson, Strus, etc. That's just one franchise. We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
None of this is a defense of Maxwell, who I think hasn't looked very impressive for a second year player in SPL, but it's reasonable to keep a couple of end of bench roster spots for developmental projects. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Atticus wrote: | We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
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It's probably closer to 1% of the time. These guys are undrafted for a reason.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Dominic1981 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
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Austin Reaves did pretty good.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Atticus
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
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It's probably closer to 1% of the time. These guys are undrafted for a reason. |
I'm sure someone can find more recent data, but in the 19-20 season, 136 undrafted players played: https://www.theringer.com/2020/11/16/21566647/nba-undrafted-alex-caruso-duncan-robinson.
1% is just a made up number. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Atticus wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
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It's probably closer to 1% of the time. These guys are undrafted for a reason. |
I'm sure someone can find more recent data, but in the 19-20 season, 136 undrafted players played: https://www.theringer.com/2020/11/16/21566647/nba-undrafted-alex-caruso-duncan-robinson.
1% is just a made up number. |
I'm not sure you actually read the article you posted. 136 is a cumulative total of undrafted players regardless of their draft class that played at least one game. Playing garbage time for one game isn't really "finding your way into the league" so that number isn't representative of actual rotation players. A guy like Alex Fudge fits into that criteria. Just last year there were about 114 undrafted players who signed some variation of an NBA contract. Look at this list and calculate how many of them actually stuck in the league. Absolutely does not happen "all the time".
https://www.rookiescale.com/2023-udfa-tracker/
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 20646
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Inverse wrote: | he's really bad. Surprised they havent tried changing his shot to having a high set point.
Not sure if its possible but if his bball IQ doesnt raise by a factor of 10x soon then he'll be playing in China next year |
Unfortunately we gave him a contract for another year
Salary filler! Salary filler! |
A whopping $100K guaranteed next year. Stretch him to reduce it to 20K per year. |
Oh neat I didn't realize, thanks |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
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Austin Reaves did pretty good. |
It's surprising to me that people don't understand how Reaves ended up on the Lakers. He wasn't undrafted in the sense that teams didn't value him enough to use a draft pick. He had interest from multiple teams, specifically Detroit, and he communicated that he wasn't willing to sign a 2 way contract which is all anyone was offering. He ended up signing a guaranteed deal as if he was a 1st round pick with the Lakers because he wasn't a fringe talent like 99% of truly undrafted players.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Atticus
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Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Posts: 2733
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
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It's probably closer to 1% of the time. These guys are undrafted for a reason. |
I'm sure someone can find more recent data, but in the 19-20 season, 136 undrafted players played: https://www.theringer.com/2020/11/16/21566647/nba-undrafted-alex-caruso-duncan-robinson.
1% is just a made up number. |
I'm not sure you actually read the article you posted. 136 is a cumulative total of undrafted players regardless of their draft class that played at least one game. Playing garbage time for one game isn't really "finding your way into the league" so that number isn't representative of actual rotation players. A guy like Alex Fudge fits into that criteria. Just last year there were about 114 undrafted players who signed some variation of an NBA contract. Look at this list and calculate how many of them actually stuck in the league. Absolutely does not happen "all the time".
https://www.rookiescale.com/2023-udfa-tracker/ |
I wasn't suggesting that 136 undrafted players were regular rotation players. I obviously didn't mean that 1/3 of the league is undrafted. I was just suggesting that 1% is a made up number. Literally our current roster is 13% undrafted players, and both of those guys are expected to be rotation players. Most teams have 1 or 2. Obviously most of them are going to fail, the same way that ~80% of second round picks ultimately fail. But we're talking about low $ risks to find end of bench talent. Many teams are on and have been on this development train. |
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Atticus
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Joined: 11 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
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Austin Reaves did pretty good. |
It's surprising to me that people don't understand how Reaves ended up on the Lakers. He wasn't undrafted in the sense that teams didn't value him enough to use a draft pick. He had interest from multiple teams, specifically Detroit, and he communicated that he wasn't willing to sign a 2 way contract which is all anyone was offering. He ended up signing a guaranteed deal as if he was a 1st round pick with the Lakers because he wasn't a fringe talent like 99% of truly undrafted players. |
Austin chose his team, but he was a two-way contract: https://www.nba.com/lakers/releases/lakers-sign-joel-ayayi-austin-reaves-two-way-contracts
We gave him a guaranteed deal before the season, but he was initially picked up by us on a two-way. |
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Atticus wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Atticus wrote: | We're not the only franchise that has struggled to develop talent from the G League, but undrafted talent finds its way into the league via the G League all the time.
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It's probably closer to 1% of the time. These guys are undrafted for a reason. |
I'm sure someone can find more recent data, but in the 19-20 season, 136 undrafted players played: https://www.theringer.com/2020/11/16/21566647/nba-undrafted-alex-caruso-duncan-robinson.
1% is just a made up number. |
I'm not sure you actually read the article you posted. 136 is a cumulative total of undrafted players regardless of their draft class that played at least one game. Playing garbage time for one game isn't really "finding your way into the league" so that number isn't representative of actual rotation players. A guy like Alex Fudge fits into that criteria. Just last year there were about 114 undrafted players who signed some variation of an NBA contract. Look at this list and calculate how many of them actually stuck in the league. Absolutely does not happen "all the time".
https://www.rookiescale.com/2023-udfa-tracker/ |
I wasn't suggesting that 136 undrafted players were regular rotation players. I obviously didn't mean that 1/3 of the league is undrafted. I was just suggesting that 1% is a made up number. Literally our current roster is 13% undrafted players, and both of those guys are expected to be rotation players. Most teams have 1 or 2. Obviously most of them are going to fail, the same way that ~80% of second round picks ultimately fail. But we're talking about low $ risks to find end of bench talent. Many teams are on and have been on this development train. |
Maybe I misunderstood then. Teams around the league kick the tires on thousands of undrafted guys to salvage a handful. We remember the good ones but it's a tiny percentage from that specific pool. But yea they conversely make up a bigger chunk of NBA rosters albeit still a small slice.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Atticus wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
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Austin Reaves did pretty good. |
It's surprising to me that people don't understand how Reaves ended up on the Lakers. He wasn't undrafted in the sense that teams didn't value him enough to use a draft pick. He had interest from multiple teams, specifically Detroit, and he communicated that he wasn't willing to sign a 2 way contract which is all anyone was offering. He ended up signing a guaranteed deal as if he was a 1st round pick with the Lakers because he wasn't a fringe talent like 99% of truly undrafted players. |
Austin chose his team, but he was a two-way contract: https://www.nba.com/lakers/releases/lakers-sign-joel-ayayi-austin-reaves-two-way-contracts
We gave him a guaranteed deal before the season, but he was initially picked up by us on a two-way. |
You're right on that. He was in contact with the Lakers and they signaled interest so he told other teams not to draft him. The Lakers 2 way was more appealing than teams that had picks and wanted to draft him and offer a 2 way.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Dominic1981
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Dominic1981 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Maxwell Lewis is a project just as Bronny is. Maxwell just brings more foundational skills on the offensive end. As expected. But both have a lot of growing to do. |
But you also have to think how many good NBA rotational players are gradually developed from the G League. It doesn’t seem like many. Most guys immediately show something or they never pan out.
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Austin Reaves did pretty good. |
He was good but he also showed something his first year. He started 19 games for the LAKERS. It doesn’t seem like the Lakers have ever had a guy that doesn’t play at all his rookie year but stays in the g league, and then gradually becomes a rotation piece in years 2-4. That’s why guys like Castleton, Bronny, Lewis, JHS seem like wastes at this point |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not throwing guys away after 1-2 years. Especially when they are still under 22 
Reaves came in at what? 23?
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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