Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 143614 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 6:18 pm Post subject:
Lakersfan1211 wrote:
Quote:
Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Joined: 21 Feb 2008 Posts: 28203 Location: LA --> Bay Area
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2023 1:36 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakersfan1211 wrote:
Quote:
Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Really looking forward to Bron/Vincent inverted screen two-man action. We didn’t run that enough last year. He did it sometimes with Reaves. But I think this is his late-game bread and butter offense (especially when he’s trying to conserve energy). Gabe’s got a quick trigger, relocates fast. Defense will likely need to switch a lot, which will get Bron backing down smaller men.
We used to use it a lot with AC and made him more of a roller to set up an extra man advantage. KCP was more the pick and pop guy.
Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Locked on Lakers had the host of Locked on Heat on the pod to discuss Gabe. Good stuff:
Thanks for posting! Super informative.
It’s interesting that as a byproduct of his replacing Dennis as our backup point, and perhaps being in the same tier of player, the assumption by many has been that its just a lateral move. But I see him contributing in different ways, Dennis being more an individual contributor and Gabe being more of a part of the machine.
It’s not a perfect analog, but it’s kind of like the difference between Monk and Caruso, Malik having the far more advanced individual exploits, but the contributions of Caruso rising the level of play of the units he’s in. For a team with high level stars, the latter is a better fit (save star injury absence, which we obviously have a lot of). _________________ Charter Member:
Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Rui "Black Samurai" Hachimura fan club
^
Yes the hope is that he fits in here like he did with Miami.
The thing to be concerned about is that over half his shots last year were 3 pointers, and he didn't shoot them particularly well. He's not particularly good at any specific aspect of the game, so it would seem.
I feel he should have been more of a vet min level signing, or a BAE, than close to the full MLE. That's just me, because we also have Reaves, DLO and everyone's expecting Christie to make some progress this season and get PT. Felt we didn't need to use the MLE on this role as much as we needed a sniper OR a big to support AD.
And lets just say, if Dennis and him are comparable MLE level talents, we were arguably better off keeping Dennis. He was quite important in both RS he has been a Laker. Although Dennis' value fades in the playoffs, in the RS, I felt he was critical to both season's we have made the playoffs. In 2021 he was key in those injury riddled season. And again last year, he was big in many RS games. With Beasley also gone, we've lost the ability of 30 points (and some creating for teammates) there and not replaced it with anyone nearly as potent. Maybe this will not hurt us at all, but I feel we're putting a lot of our eggs in the DLO/Reaves basket for scoring/creating, and may have undervalued how much Ham relied on Dennis/guard scoring. I've said this a few times, and maybe I'm wrong. I feel one of the strengths of last year's team was how many options they had to score the ball with thier guards. Ham could call upon Lonnie Walker to go off on 15 points on Curry in a stretch in a key playoff game. Beasley was one of the most volume 3 point guys in the league. That's your 4th and 5th option at guard. Dennis was 3rd, behind DLO/Reaves. I could be wrong, but I feel we took a significant step back in our guard positions and will rely heavily on Reaves/DLO to carry the show (Which they can, but in the RS maybe the depth would have been more useful).
On the flip we probably took a big step forward with having a full year of Rui, Vandy and also adding a player like Prince (not to mention Reddish). We've got a lot more wings and size at the 4/3 and should be much more potent there than we were a year ago. To me though, I would have liked the team a bit more if we had been able to keep at least Dennis. Not sure why we didn't try to bring him back using the MLE (we end up giving most of it to Vincent). Dennis has been very solid both years he's been a Laker, in the RS.
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
Gabe Vincent says he chose the Lakers because he wanted to join a contending team and compete for championships. The Modesto, Calif., native also mentioned the advantages of being closer to home and playing for an iconic franchise.
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
We did have someone who played energetic defense, was taller than DS, a player 6'5, with a nice wingspan to boot, he also, albeit on a limited basis, hit 40% of his his three point shots.
Why wouldn't we play such a player against Denver in general, and Murray in particular? Oh, yeah, he lacked just one thing: experience.
We got swept. It was the perfect circumstances in which to give him a little time to get the experience he lacked. He learns if he doesn't perform well, he grows in confidence and competency if he does perform well.
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
We did have someone who played energetic defense, was taller than DS, a player 6'5, with a nice wingspan to boot, he also, albeit on a limited basis, hit 40% of his his three point shots.
Why wouldn't we play such a player against Denver in general, and Murray in particular? Oh, yeah, he lacked just one thing: experience.
We got swept. It was the perfect circumstances in which to give him a little time to get the experience he lacked. He learns if he doesn't perform well, he grows in confidence and competency if he does perform well.
Maybe partly due to having a first year head coach?
I remember Phil Jackson when put in these situations he wasn't shy to try something new or someone without experience..but Ham being a new coach, I don't think had the nerves to do such a thing with Troy Brown.
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Lakers matchup hunted for Murray much more than the Nuggets hunted for DLO. It's not that DLO's defense made him unplayable, it's that he was so bad on offense too that you couldn't justify him getting hunted. It might sound like nitpicking but it's an important distinction to make because whether or not he's unplayable against the Nuggets next year might depend on whether he averages 8 ppg on 30% shooting again (or whatever).
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Lakers matchup hunted for Murray much more than the Nuggets hunted for DLO. It's not that DLO's defense made him unplayable, it's that he was so bad on offense too that you couldn't justify him getting hunted. It might sound like nitpicking but it's an important distinction to make because whether or not he's unplayable against the Nuggets next year might depend on whether he averages 8 ppg on 30% shooting again (or whatever).
Yes I remember that now..He did seem to sink in the pressure of the playoffs perhaps? I actually remember him missing quite a few open 3s in the Denver series..something that was unexpected
Last edited by lar9149 on Sun Jul 23, 2023 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Well the thing is in the playoffs, teams will take advantage of any weaknesses a team has.
Last year in the playoffs, the Nuggets made DLO and Vando unplayable as DLO defense wasn't good enough and Vando on offense could be ignored. To an extent the Warriors did this later in the series, but I think the Lakers countered with their own things like making Curry play defense.
The Lakers countered the Nuggets by using DS..which was okay against the Warriors since he can matchup well against Curry..but I don't think it was enough against the Nuggets..Murray had a height advantage and on offense, DS didn't have enough of an outside threat to spread the defense for LBJ (which wasn't hitting his 3s to make it worse) and lacked some playmaking ability.
I think having Vincent and Prince potentially fills this problem as I think both should be playable in a close playoff game as both can play offball (assuming Vincent can repeat his 3 point performance in the playoffs) and play defense. My feeling is the Lakers may have better prepared themselves for a deep playoff vs last year's team, which was almost good enough to win at all if it wasn't for those weaknesses I mentioned.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The Lakers matchup hunted for Murray much more than the Nuggets hunted for DLO. It's not that DLO's defense made him unplayable, it's that he was so bad on offense too that you couldn't justify him getting hunted. It might sound like nitpicking but it's an important distinction to make because whether or not he's unplayable against the Nuggets next year might depend on whether he averages 8 ppg on 30% shooting again (or whatever).
The point you make creates a more balanced picture. If Dlo is insanely hot at the offensive end, as opposed to iceberg cold, would we be talking about how "unplayable" he was?
You have to blame the top guys ..you had LBJ up there jacking up threes that cost by himself game 2. Then you got HAM who dont have the guts to tell him to stop that junk...and before someone says "But But he a first year coach..he cant do thaaaat"...you think Rhondo would have got into LBJ's tail for doing that stuff? So if Rhondo can do this there is no reason a "Coach" shouldnt be able to. Moreover, like the 90s 80s 2000s..players and coaches say the same thing..We going to keep doing the same thing until you stop it. Ham Hock head just kept doing the same thing puting DLO into a bad matchup...smh. Ham hock head could have set him and put in LW4 or Troy Brown or even Shaq Harrison..any of them to get some production but he didnt.
And that leaves to the last part...EVEN if DLO played great...Fans and media would look for somebody else to blame..DS or LW or vando or Pelinka..pick one. Pick anybody but squarely on the leaders of the team LBJ, AD, and Ham hock HEAD...smh.
^
Yes the hope is that he fits in here like he did with Miami.
I feel he should have been more of a vet min level signing, or a BAE, than close to the full MLE.
And lets just say, if Dennis and him are comparable MLE level talents, we were arguably better off keeping Dennis.
On the flip we probably took a big step forward with having a full year of Rui, Vandy and also adding a player like Prince (not to mention Reddish).
Agreed that there is uncertainty with Vincent. His not having pedigree per se feeds into that. But I will say this. The best developmental system in the league has invested four years in him, and the best coach in the league has started him for 30 games in the playoffs, including on a run to the finals. Was some of that circumstance, sure. But that franchise plays to win.
If you listen to him talk, he is a serious professional. His being here was not guaranteed. He’s a lunch pale guy who would have fit in perfectly with the 2020 crew. You need those with Bron and Davis, who don’t always do the dirty work. The Lakers got Rui to buy into that more too, which is exactly when he took off. Reaves showed up wired that way. The more our team identity works that way, the more success we will have. _________________ Charter Member:
Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Rui "Black Samurai" Hachimura fan club
The best developmental system in the league has invested four years in him, and the best coach in the league has started him for 30 games in the playoffs, including on a run to the finals. Was some of that circumstance, sure. But that franchise plays to win.
Agreed, but they also let him go, and they also let Nunn go to us for the TP-MLE.
I am hopeful he can find the same role with us, but I am not counting on, just based on his RS. He seems to be a guy that isn't particularly good at any specific part of the game that would give us a significant advantage as a role player to have him out there. For example, Caruso you know you got elite D and energy off the ball. 2020 Howard, you got elite man D in the paint and rebounds. With KCP you got 3nD at a high level. You want role guys on championship level teams to have a defined strong point that makes their role justified.
For Vincent, not sure exactly what he excels at. Nothing against him. The Heat were built on Jimmy Butler's back, and a bit of BamA. The rest is elite coaching. I don't credit their role guys too much. Not too long ago, people were talking up Duncan Robinson after our NBA Finals match up with them. Now, we wouldn't touch DR's contract. And with Robinson, at least I can define what he does and excels at. Still trying to figure out what we spent a near full MLE on, in terms of that. We had 3 main needs. We could have used an elite shooter/sniper. We could have used a phyiscal big who can play next to AD for 10-15 min a game. We could have used another 3nD wing at the 2 guard as DLO can fade in the playoffs. I'm not sure we really got any of that with the MLE, or BAE, which is what they should have been focused on IMO. Not to complain, because the team is going to be really good by just having AD/Bron/Rui/DLO/Reaves for a full year. I just don't think Pelinka deserves the props he's getting (personally)
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