LAKERS -vs- SPURS - 7-5-23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:20 pm    Post subject: LAKERS -vs- SPURS - 7-5-23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

Summer League Game 2... The Lakers fell behind quickly, giving up 20 points in just over 3 minutes to start this game and trailed by 10.

They’d rally behind some Swider shooting as the team went on an 18-3 run.

They stayed even with the Spurs until the third quarter when their lack of defensive rebounding got the best of them. The Spurs killed the Lakers on second chance points all game. Despite that, in the third quarter Max Christie dropped 13 of his team-high 25 points showing some efficient shooting and three-level scoring.

In the fourth, Swider lost all that good will produced early in the game with a series of turnovers that halted any momentum, and the Lakers fell 109-99. A couple of the new guys had improved games as they got more into the flow of the next level play. Castleton stuffed the stat sheet and JHS was a little more consistent after his poor first half in the first game.

Let’s get into the individual player details:


Christie -- -- Everything he showed in this game is translatable to the next level. The shot was money. All of his threes had the look of practiced repetition to keep all his mechanics the same on every attempt. The handle is improved and got him places. He had one drive where he crossed over twice, spun to change directions and scored the layup. He also showed some moments with that length on D. Good job getting to the line early on. He had 10 points on 2-6 shooting in the first half. He swished a pull-up jumper on the two-man game and knocked down a catch-and-shoot three next time down. In the third, he throttled it up dropping 13 more points on 5-7 shooting. He hit a tough turnaround jumper on iso that hit dead center of the net. He sank a three off the catch next time down. Then buried another three straight away on the next possession. His last three and final points of that quarter were on an iso pull-up with the shotclock low, so hitting them on the catch and pulling up. In the fourth, he tried to hammer over a big with both hands and drew FTs. Loved the overall aggression. He’s looking very much like a rotation player in these first two games. The Stats: He scored 25 points on 7-13 shooting (4-5 from three, 7-8 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and no fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -18.

Hood-Schifino -- -- Looking much more comfortable in this one than the last. Still a few issues, but this one showed off some of the strength. And strength is a strength. There were several drives where he went into a crowd, took all kinds of contact and was able to muscle in scores. He did get rejected badly going for a scoop at the end of a quarter after pushing the ball up court (that should have been a floater). He probably should have had a couple more FTs. (One drive he got hit in the head, then from the side from another player, still scored and didn’t get the call). He had 11 points on 5-11 shooting in the first half and 9 on 3-6 shooting in the second half and got the line a little more. This probably should have been around a 23-point game with the no calls and him missing some FTs he should have knocked down. He’s sprayed the three ball around a bit in these first two games. Guys just go under the screens and he’s open, but is not making them pay. This is one of the concerns, but I think it’s just a matter of time and reps. Christie couldn’t knock down threes but was good in the midrange last year this time. JHS has those big hands (which look great on inside-out dribbles), and some might think that could be an issue for shooters, but Kawhi has the exact same size himself and shoots well. Defensively, better than the last game, but he still gave up a big dunk on iso getting blown past off the dribble. Too bad he can’t handcheck like the old days. A bit turnover prone in this one, but there’s still a lot of confusion on the court. One Swider was curling when he thought he was cutting flat. On another a man pulled up on the wing inside of the sideline in transition for a three and JHS was expecting him to corner fill. So I’m not going to concern myself with some of these. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 8-17 shooting (0-4 from three, 4-7 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 5 turnovers and 3 fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -11.

Swider -- -- Tale of two halves for him. Early on, he single handedly helped the Lakers out of an early hole, sinking several threes. He had 11 of the team’s first 20 points. In the second half, he would hit a tough three off a set play. Then the issues started. He had three turnovers, traveling on two of them. So as good as he was at helping the Lakers get momentum in the first half, he was the opposite late in the second half. Just too many unforced errors. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting (4-7 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 7 boards (3 offensive), 1 steal, 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a -6.

Castleton -- -- Great all-around game from him. I think this one really showed the things he can and can’t do. Strong first half with 8 points, 4 boards and 4 blocks. Great job showing his presence in the paint by challenging those shots. The rebounding could have been better. As I mentioned previously, he’s a little bit of an underwhelming rebounder and that part of his game was on display. The announcing team compared him to Zubac. That rebounding is an area where I don’t think that holds up. The passing and handles would be another area where that doesn’t hold up. He should the excellent court vision on one play in particular where he had the ball in the corner and spotted a cutter for a layup down the lane. The handle can be seen on some of the defensive board pushouts he has. One of those helped JHS get an early bucket when the D was caught scrambling. You can also see it on the drives for scores, including an attack from the elbow into a floater (he did have a turnover on one drive where he should have been rolling and didn’t, then tried to attack when he got the kickout). Great touch around the rim. That’s kind of his bread and butter. The team really played small when he was off the floor (-9 when he sat). I would have still liked a couple more boards from him, but he stuffed the stat sheet today despite that. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting (6-7 from the line) to go with 8 boards (1 offensive), 6 assists, 4 blocks, 2 turnovers and 7 fouls in 33 minutes. He was a -1.

Lewis -- -- I think we sat him early because of some defensive issues. This game really highlighted to me what you’d see when watching full games. He should be way more disruptive defensively in team situations, especially with that length. But that didn’t show up and he also shies away from mixing it up under the hoop for boards. Still, some really good moments on iso D to show how his mix of length and athleticism can mess with players. He had an especially nice block when his man tried to stop on a dime for a pull-up and Lewis recovered to block the jumper. His other block was on iso D in the post. So there are skills there, but the motor/hunger to mix it up holds him back. Offensively, his handle and footwork will need work to help him create more opportunities for himself (and not get called for shuffling his feet or pushing back to step on the sideline on a drive). He did get a good running start but was blocked at the rim when he tried to cram over a big, who challenged him well. Need more aggression from him offensively, but I still question whether he has the tools in the bag yet to open up space for himself. Last year this time, Christie was struggling a bit with some things. Christie came out early and you knew it was just going to take work. As long as Lewis has work ethic, he can see the same levels of improvement. I will say, however, Christie had a nose for defensive rebounding. I just don’t know if you can teach that motor/nose for the ball. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-2 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 1 board, 2 blocks, 3 turnovers and 2 fouls in 22 minutes. He was a -18.

Hodge -- -- Again, I worried that the nature of summer league ball would not allow Hodge to fully show his skills. He needs play calls and others creating for him so he can knock down shots. That held true still in this one. He did knock down 2-4 from three. He also had a nice cut off ball for Castleton to find him for a layup. Defensively, he had a block and nearly another steal that looked like it might turn into a breakaway, but he couldn’t quite come out with it. The Stats: He scored 8 points on 3-6 shooting (2-4 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 block and 2 fouls in 18 minutes. He was a -1.

Baugh -- -- Quiet game. He missed all five shots he took, including one three that was way off. He showed some good hustle defensively in transition to strip a man, but he also gave up an offensive board putback. Usual decent ball movement and some playmaking. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-5 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 4 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and 1 foul in 18 minutes. He was a +2.

Fudge -- -- The coaches put him in as our backup C. He’s not that. It made for some poor moments for the team on the defensive glass. Good start to this game for Fudge, however. He drained a wing three on the catch. Then jumped the passing lane a few seconds later to steal the ball and take it for a dunk. Then he followed that up by taking a charge on the next defensive stand. So a nice flurry of action to start. Short minutes. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-4 shooting (1-1 from three) to go with 2 offensive boards, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 6 minutes. He was a -5.

Hamilton -- -- A couple of scores. He attacked a close out, took contact and hit an And-1 across his body as he attacked across the lane. He also sank a catch-and-shoot three on the break. His one assist was working the two-man game with Castleton to set him up for a score. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 2-2 shooting (1-1 from three, 0-1 from the line) to go with 1 assist, 1 turnover and 2 fouls in 9 minutes. He was a +8.

DuBois -- -- Got the starting lineup adjusted with Castleton and Lewis out there in this one. He fairly quickly subbed out Lewis after a few minutes when Champagnie got going and the Lakers fell behind… The small ball with Fudge at the C spot looked awful. The Lakers got killed on second-chance points in this game…
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:29 pm    Post subject:

Much more fun game today.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Youngsters are learning

Which ones will learn
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:46 pm    Post subject:

I would say than CC is still a raw prospect in need of development.

He is a good area defender (zone) / weak side shot blocker but is a poor one on one on ball man defender. This in my opinion is his biggest area that needs improvement.

He gets pushed around and out rebounded by smaller players. It does not help he goes up for rebounds with one hand on occasion which allows other players to knock the ball loose.

Once he gets the rebound he is very comfortable either passing ahead or dribbling the ball up the court and initiating the offense. He has good court vision and makes good passes.

While we can talk about negatives, his plus / minus for the game was a minus 1 which is a whole lot better than the other starters.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:46 pm    Post subject:

Thx DB
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:53 pm    Post subject:

One more thing, under the new CBA teams can have three players on two way contracts IF they have 15 players on their main roster. Since the Lakers look to stop at 14, one of the two way players will have to be cut. And as much as I hate to say it, the player to be cut should be Swider. Love his shooting, love his grit but defensively and speed wise he gives up too much. Got to give the other guys a chance.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 7:55 pm    Post subject:

I like the guys that we anticipate could help. JHS, Lewis and Castleton. Hodge has some potential with that shot.

Christie looking good and doing what he is supposed to do
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Laker7 wrote:
One more thing, under the new CBA teams can have three players on two way contracts IF they have 15 players on their main roster. Since the Lakers look to stop at 14, one of the two way players will have to be cut. And as much as I hate to say it, the player to be cut should be Swider. Love his shooting, love his grit but defensively and speed wide he gives up too much. Got to give the other guys a chance.


Castleton supposedly had an offer to get drafted by another team but they talked them out of it. That's the same story as Reaves. So I kind of wonder if we aren't going to convert him at some point like we did Reaves.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 8:39 pm    Post subject:

Didn't get to watch the game but from highlights and the box score alone... MAX CHRISTIE HYPE TRAIN HERE WE GOOOOOOOO
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: LAKERS -vs- SPURS - 7-5-23 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings

DancingBarry wrote:



Christie -- -- Everything he showed in this game is translatable to the next level. The shot was money. All of his threes had the look of practiced repetition to keep all his mechanics the same on every attempt. The handle is improved and got him places. He had one drive where he crossed over twice, spun to change directions and scored the layup. He also showed some moments with that length on D. Good job getting to the line early on. He had 10 points on 2-6 shooting in the first half. He swished a pull-up jumper on the two-man game and knocked down a catch-and-shoot three next time down. In the third, he throttled it up dropping 13 more points on 5-7 shooting. He hit a tough turnaround jumper on iso that hit dead center of the net. He sank a three off the catch next time down. Then buried another three straight away on the next possession. His last three and final points of that quarter were on an iso pull-up with the shotclock low, so hitting them on the catch and pulling up. In the fourth, he tried to hammer over a big with both hands and drew FTs. Loved the overall aggression. He’s looking very much like a rotation player in these first two games. The Stats: He scored 25 points on 7-13 shooting (4-5 from three, 7-8 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 1 block and no fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -18.

Hood-Schifino -- -- Looking much more comfortable in this one than the last. Still a few issues, but this one showed off some of the strength. And strength is a strength. There were several drives where he went into a crowd, took all kinds of contact and was able to muscle in scores. He did get rejected badly going for a scoop at the end of a quarter after pushing the ball up court (that should have been a floater). He probably should have had a couple more FTs. (One drive he got hit in the head, then from the side from another player, still scored and didn’t get the call). He had 11 points on 5-11 shooting in the first half and 9 on 3-6 shooting in the second half and got the line a little more. This probably should have been around a 23-point game with the no calls and him missing some FTs he should have knocked down. He’s sprayed the three ball around a bit in these first two games. Guys just go under the screens and he’s open, but is not making them pay. This is one of the concerns, but I think it’s just a matter of time and reps. Christie couldn’t knock down threes but was good in the midrange last year this time. JHS has those big hands (which look great on inside-out dribbles), and some might think that could be an issue for shooters, but Kawhi has the exact same size himself and shoots well. Defensively, better than the last game, but he still gave up a big dunk on iso getting blown past off the dribble. Too bad he can’t handcheck like the old days. A bit turnover prone in this one, but there’s still a lot of confusion on the court. One Swider was curling when he thought he was cutting flat. On another a man pulled up on the wing inside of the sideline in transition for a three and JHS was expecting him to corner fill. So I’m not going to concern myself with some of these. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 8-17 shooting (0-4 from three, 4-7 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 4 assists, 1 steal, 5 turnovers and 3 fouls in 31 minutes. He was a -11.

Swider -- -- Tale of two halves for him. Early on, he single handedly helped the Lakers out of an early hole, sinking several threes. He had 11 of the team’s first 20 points. In the second half, he would hit a tough three off a set play. Then the issues started. He had three turnovers, traveling on two of them. So as good as he was at helping the Lakers get momentum in the first half, he was the opposite late in the second half. Just too many unforced errors. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting (4-7 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 7 boards (3 offensive), 1 steal, 3 turnovers and 3 fouls in 28 minutes. He was a -6.

Castleton -- -- Great all-around game from him. I think this one really showed the things he can and can’t do. Strong first half with 8 points, 4 boards and 4 blocks. Great job showing his presence in the paint by challenging those shots. The rebounding could have been better. As I mentioned previously, he’s a little bit of an underwhelming rebounder and that part of his game was on display. The announcing team compared him to Zubac. That rebounding is an area where I don’t think that holds up. The passing and handles would be another area where that doesn’t hold up. He should the excellent court vision on one play in particular where he had the ball in the corner and spotted a cutter for a layup down the lane. The handle can be seen on some of the defensive board pushouts he has. One of those helped JHS get an early bucket when the D was caught scrambling. You can also see it on the drives for scores, including an attack from the elbow into a floater (he did have a turnover on one drive where he should have been rolling and didn’t, then tried to attack when he got the kickout). Great touch around the rim. That’s kind of his bread and butter. The team really played small when he was off the floor (-9 when he sat). I would have still liked a couple more boards from him, but he stuffed the stat sheet today despite that. The Stats: He scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting (6-7 from the line) to go with 8 boards (1 offensive), 6 assists, 4 blocks, 2 turnovers and 7 fouls in 33 minutes. He was a -1.

Lewis -- -- I think we sat him early because of some defensive issues. This game really highlighted to me what you’d see when watching full games. He should be way more disruptive defensively in team situations, especially with that length. But that didn’t show up and he also shies away from mixing it up under the hoop for boards. Still, some really good moments on iso D to show how his mix of length and athleticism can mess with players. He had an especially nice block when his man tried to stop on a dime for a pull-up and Lewis recovered to block the jumper. His other block was on iso D in the post. So there are skills there, but the motor/hunger to mix it up holds him back. Offensively, his handle and footwork will need work to help him create more opportunities for himself (and not get called for shuffling his feet or pushing back to step on the sideline on a drive). He did get a good running start but was blocked at the rim when he tried to cram over a big, who challenged him well. Need more aggression from him offensively, but I still question whether he has the tools in the bag yet to open up space for himself. Last year this time, Christie was struggling a bit with some things. Christie came out early and you knew it was just going to take work. As long as Lewis has work ethic, he can see the same levels of improvement. I will say, however, Christie had a nose for defensive rebounding. I just don’t know if you can teach that motor/nose for the ball. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-2 shooting (0-1 from three) to go with 1 board, 2 blocks, 3 turnovers and 2 fouls in 22 minutes. He was a -18.


I watched two Florida full games this week. Against UConn and Kentucky. Tale of two games for Castleton. He was eaten alive in the first game and did much better against Tshiebwe who is 6'9. Someone stronger (Sanogo) or of equal size (Clingan) gave him trouble. He got Tshiebwe fouled out at the end.

Castleton plays back to the basket only. He missed four jumpers, including one from the three point line, and none looked pretty. Visible lack of practice.

He has a good handle for someone his size. His passing shows a good understanding and awareness of the game. Below average strength and motor. Not a shot blocker or vertical threat like Jay Huff.

Watching him reminds me of the experience of watching Thomas Bryant. It was frustrating to watch TB playing in Indiana in the beginning too but then I could see how some parts of his game might translate. Castleton does not show the same upside.

Lewis and Christie are not very comparable imo. Christie has a discipline in his game, both offensive and defensive. Lewis is quite the opposite. While his physical tools bring a high ceiling, his floor is low. He needs a lot of coaching.

Speaking of two-way contracts, it is terrible for players drafted at the end of the second round. For example, the Pacers signed both Isaiah Wong, pick #55, and Tshiebwe to a two-way. Being drafted does not do any good for Wong. He could not choose which team to sign with and could not get a standard contract either. No wonder players and their agents would tell teams to not draft them.

I remember Reaves did not play well in the summer league. He got his contract converted by playing well with the veterans like LBJ. Those were closed-door practices. Summer league is just summer league.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:13 am    Post subject:

Thanks DB. Yep the kids have a way to go yet.
- There were some minutes in
the late 1st half JHS would take the ball down and create for himself, didn't pass the ball at all. In the second half he seemed more passive. IF he wants to build some synergy with a team he's going to have to get others involved and discover when to attack, when to pass, etc.
- Christie seems to be ready for the next step,
- Castle is a below the rim C, he'll have to figure out how to be disruptive having those heavy feet.
- Lewis needs to figure it out, you can't over push some of these guys. It'll come if he made for it
- Swider, can't be making freshman mistakes; he's back in the g-league until he proves otherwise

Game was a little mor e organized, they all still need a lot of work but that's what they're in that summer league for.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 6:25 am    Post subject:

Fun game.

Max definitely looks ready for rotation minutes with the big team. Not because he’s nailing shots but dude looks very under control and confident out there. Not very many mistakes. Looks like he knows exactly what he wants to do.

JHS also looks comfortable in his own skin but you can tell he’s not yet there. His game has not popped at all to me so far. Most of his points came from bullying smaller defenders on his way to the rim ironically since the scouting on him said otherwise. His drives to the rim are not based on speed like Shro, or craft like Dlo or AR, they are based on putting his massive body and low center of gravity into people. Once he’s there that same massive body and low center of gravity help him absorb contact and finish. What’s interesting is he has a very low jump shot. Despite his size it doesn’t feel like he has enough time to get his shot off. Something for him to work on. He might be young but dude has a grown man NBA ready frame. At this point dude is the most generic basketball player you see. Not really good at anything but also not really bad either.

Castleton I think has fantastic potential. He has a great feel for the game and is elite around the basket with little hooks. Very much like Zu. He has good timing for blocking shots. Dude doesn’t box out though. Like not at all. He’s got massive legs and behind so maybe it can be learned. That to me is why he struggles on rebounding. He can handle and has great passing skills for a big man. Very interested to see more of him.

Swider - I so want him to be good but I don’t think he’s an NBA player. He can shoot the lights out but he often looks like he trips over his own feet out there just trying to run down the floor. Very poor athlete with poor coordination for his size.

Lewis - Looks lost out there. Fantastic gazelle like strides and athleticism. Very timid. A lot like Max last year. Dude needs to get some longer shorts though. Holy cow.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:45 am    Post subject:

kfkilla wrote:
He has good timing for blocking shots. Dude doesn’t box out though. Like not at all. He’s got massive legs and behind so maybe it can be learned. That to me is why he struggles on rebounding.


In his college games, though, I would see instances where he had a good box out and they'd still take the board away from him from behind. I think he can obviously learn to box out much better, but I think the root of the problem is that he's just not super explosive on his vertical without taking a step.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 2:01 pm    Post subject: Swider has to expand his game if he's going to make it.

Swider is so set on shooting the 3 it's easy for the defense to anticipate what he's about to do. He had a few 3's blocked because he had his mind made up already what he was going to do as soon as he touched the ball.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:05 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
kfkilla wrote:
He has good timing for blocking shots. Dude doesn’t box out though. Like not at all. He’s got massive legs and behind so maybe it can be learned. That to me is why he struggles on rebounding.


In his college games, though, I would see instances where he had a good box out and they'd still take the board away from him from behind. I think he can obviously learn to box out much better, but I think the root of the problem is that he's just not super explosive on his vertical without taking a step.

I remember BroLo always had low rebounding numbers but people would always excuse it by saying he's boxing out for his teammates. What distinguishes BroLo from Castleton (in the instances where Castleton did box out)?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 3:50 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:

I remember BroLo always had low rebounding numbers but people would always excuse it by saying he's boxing out for his teammates. What distinguishes BroLo from Castleton (in the instances where Castleton did box out)?


BroLo has 2.5 inches on him on the standing reach. That's fairly significant.

There's no reason Castleton can't improve some things here and do a little more work earlier, but he lets a few get away from that I'm surprised he didn't pull down when he's got position.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2023 4:02 pm    Post subject:

I didn't know we had SL Thoughts and Ratings, how delightful.

Thanks DB
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