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DocK36
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Like everyone has already pointed out, there’s just nothing at stake for this tournament. I say give the team that win the mid season championship some lottery ping pong balls, let’s say a 10% chance of getting the top 3 pick, that would be incentive for the teams to take these games seriously.
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| DocK36 wrote: | | Like everyone has already pointed out, there’s just nothing at stake for this tournament. I say give the team that win the mid season championship some lottery ping pong balls, let’s say a 10% chance of getting the top 3 pick, that would be incentive for the teams to take these games seriously. |
Players have different perspectives on the draft than fans. Fans love the draft and see it as an opportunity for the team to get better. Veterans see the draft as an opportunity for a club to find their (the players') replacements. I am not sure that giving a club a high draft pick would incentivize the players. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | DocK36 wrote: | | Like everyone has already pointed out, there’s just nothing at stake for this tournament. I say give the team that win the mid season championship some lottery ping pong balls, let’s say a 10% chance of getting the top 3 pick, that would be incentive for the teams to take these games seriously. |
Players have different perspectives on the draft than fans. Fans love the draft and see it as an opportunity for the team to get better. Veterans see the draft as an opportunity for a club to find their (the players') replacements. I am not sure that giving a club a high draft pick would incentivize the players. |
Yep. The only thing that would make it matter is to grant the winner some sort of playoff advantage but there’s no guarantee the winner of the tournament will even make the playoffs. The meaningful incentives I can think of create other problems and mess with the competitive structure of the league and none of it is worth it just to prop up a marketing shtick.
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | The thing that Silver doesn't get about this, why it means so much in soccer is that the other teams are coming from all over the world. You'll have the best teams of the top leagues all compete in one tournament. |
Actually, this is analogous to the FA Cup, not the Champions League. The WNBA has been doing this for several years. It's been fine. It hasn't taken the world by storm, but then, neither has the WNBA.
I don't know how this will work out, but if you put a trophy out there to be won, with some cash incentives, I think you'll see teams and players taking it seriously, at least within a few years. I understand the skepticism, but I think the skeptics will be surprised. It may not be a big hit the first season, but I won't be surprised if this gets a lot of attention within three to five years.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:15 am Post subject: |
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People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament?
Whether it's the Oscars, or the Grammys, the World Cup, the Olympics or the World Baseball Classic... most competitions and tournaments start out as something that most people don't care about.
Sometimes they catch on, sometimes they don't... but it's crazy to me that some people who blather on about ridiculous minutiae all summer think they have no time for an actual tournament.
I wish they had a mid summer tournament to break up the four month gap.
Maybe if this is successful, they will have that also. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares?
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BILBJH
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares? |
When people watch the English Premier League they don't just talk about winning the league... they talk about winning silverware... meaning any tournament over the past years... they have the actual League title, the Champions League... the FA Cup... the Carabao Cup... and in the same way we wouldn't want the Celtics or the Clippers to win one of these auxiliary titles... they not only want to win, but make sure their rivals don't win one either.
Of course they start out as nothing... but after ten years... you will not want to let the Clippers win the midseason tournament either.
And the casual fan will feel this as well in time. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares? |
When people watch the English Premier League they don't just talk about winning the league... they talk about winning silverware... meaning any tournament over the past years... they have the actual League title, the Champions League... the FA Cup... the Carabao Cup... and in the same way we wouldn't want the Celtics or the Clippers to win one of these auxiliary titles... they not only want to win, but make sure their rivals don't win one either.
Of course they start out as nothing... but after ten years... you will not want to let the Clippers win the midseason tournament either.
And the casual fan will feel this as well in time. |
I don’t follow soccer, but that’s a pretty big culture change to get people to start caring about this made up thing that has no actual value. Maybe it’ll catch on, but as someone who absolutely hates the Boston Celtics I couldn’t give less of a (bleep) if they win the In Season Tournament.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares? |
When people watch the English Premier League they don't just talk about winning the league... they talk about winning silverware... meaning any tournament over the past years... they have the actual League title, the Champions League... the FA Cup... the Carabao Cup... and in the same way we wouldn't want the Celtics or the Clippers to win one of these auxiliary titles... they not only want to win, but make sure their rivals don't win one either.
Of course they start out as nothing... but after ten years... you will not want to let the Clippers win the midseason tournament either.
And the casual fan will feel this as well in time. |
I don’t follow soccer, but that’s a pretty big culture change to get people to start caring about this made up thing that has no actual value. Maybe it’ll catch on, but as someone who absolutely hates the Boston Celtics I couldn’t give less of a (bleep) if they win the In Season Tournament. |
If you want to get philosophical... none of this has actual value.
God, money, the NBA title.
It's all made up in our heads. But we fool ourselves into thinking things have value so we can be happy and enjoy life. |
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MookieBetts50
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Joined: 22 Jul 2020
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| VCF will claim how important this tourney is and all the fans and players will find value in this thing when considering his team will happily hang their first banner of any kind I'm their shiney new Intuit Dome. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 52443
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares? |
When people watch the English Premier League they don't just talk about winning the league... they talk about winning silverware... meaning any tournament over the past years... they have the actual League title, the Champions League... the FA Cup... the Carabao Cup... and in the same way we wouldn't want the Celtics or the Clippers to win one of these auxiliary titles... they not only want to win, but make sure their rivals don't win one either.
Of course they start out as nothing... but after ten years... you will not want to let the Clippers win the midseason tournament either.
And the casual fan will feel this as well in time. |
I don’t follow soccer, but that’s a pretty big culture change to get people to start caring about this made up thing that has no actual value. Maybe it’ll catch on, but as someone who absolutely hates the Boston Celtics I couldn’t give less of a (bleep) if they win the In Season Tournament. |
If you want to get philosophical... none of this has actual value.
God, money, the NBA title.
It's all made up in our heads. But we fool ourselves into thinking things have value so we can be happy and enjoy life. |
I disagree. The NBA championship has real, measurable value. It determines who the best team was that year. The MVP determines who the most valuable player was. The In Season Tournament doesn’t determine anything except who happened to win a few games in November and December that we were going to play anyway. They’re just randomly inserting a trophy into the middle of the season. You think players are going to treat a November game differently because they might have a shot at $500k? Adam Silver just keeps adding more trophies to the league but I’m not sure anyone cares. Remember when we were all biting our nails in anticipation of who won the Most Clutch Award?
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LakersInFour
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 6725
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:00 am Post subject: |
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It would kind of be cool if they would open the season with a tournament, and then have it give some sort of playoff seeding/tie-breaker advantage based on performance.
Otherwise I fail to see how anyone other than the hardcore fan is going to be interested, and why teams would potentially compromise the health of their star/rotation players with an extra regular season game.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| LakersInFour wrote: | It would kind of be cool if they would open the season with a tournament, and then have it give some sort of playoff seeding/tie-breaker advantage based on performance.
Otherwise I fail to see how anyone other than the hardcore fan is going to be interested, and why teams would potentially compromise the health of their star/rotation players with an extra regular season game. |
I had the same thought, but that could seriously screw with the competitive structure of the league. I imagine a high seeded team wouldn’t be too happy about working all year for their positioning only to lose it because a lower team won the dumb tournament. It would be shifting the focus of the regular season having meaning to the tournament having meaning, and how much do we want to sacrifice to prop up this marketing shtick?
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: |
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What the NBA should really do is forget stupid in-season tournaments and instead reduce the number of regular season games from 82 to about 50.
Spread out the rest between games a lot more and put penalties on teams for "load management" of healthy players.
That is how you would make the regular season mean something again, not by a stupid gimmick like an in-season tournament.
Of course they would never do it for money reasons, but less games with more space between the games would lead to far higher ratings and a better product.
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Denny_Russo
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:09 am Post subject: |
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It'll be more like the g-league tournament IMO. The guys who want larger roles and need to prove themselves will step up, like in those national showcase games. Mac McClung, come on down. 
Making a detour to Vegas for the final game is kinda lame too. Guys will just want the rest instead of the extra travel.
The NBA cup will be about as valuable as the ECF/WCF trophies. Imagine bragging about that but not getting any legitimate hardware.
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LakerDYnasty72
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Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:11 am Post subject: |
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I applaud the league for attempting to increase interest in the games by upping the stakes. Personally, I'm just locked into whomever my Lakers are playing.
The stakes are always high that way for me. |
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Dominic1981
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Joined: 09 Feb 2022
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| I have no interest in this. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 143614
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | People who spend all summer posting about bullsh*t between free agency and preseason, think they are too good to watch an in season tournament? |
The people that follow the league in the off-season are die hards. They’re watching these games anyway.
The gimmick is meant to accomplish two things: 1) Get people who otherwise wouldn’t watch November games to watch them because of the tournament and 2) make the games in the early part of the season more meaningful. I don’t think the league has accomplished either. The tournament isn’t real. It’s a marketing tool with no meaning. There’s a participation trophy at the end of it. Who cares? |
I agree with both, I don’t see many fans who don’t watch early season games tuning in because of this idea, if they don’t care then they will continue to not care.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| MookieBetts50 wrote: | | VCF will claim how important this tourney is and all the fans and players will find value in this thing when considering his team will happily hang their first banner of any kind I'm their shiney new Intuit Dome. |
If a poster here wants an educated and informed opinion they will skim by your posts.
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TDRock
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | it'd be annoying if the celtics win the first one, lol |
| DocK36 wrote: | | I'll bet you the Clippers will probably win the first one, can't wait to see them raising a banner for the Mid Season Champion, and Balmer will probably have Championship rings made for the team |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | I have been a regular viewer of First take and then Undisputed over the last 10-12 years, and it’s a very popular opinion to hear these analysts say, “I start watching the NBA on Christmas Day…Christmas Day is the unofficial start of the NBA season. If this tournament can bring more importance the the pre-Christmas portion of the schedule it will be extremely impactful.
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Before Christmas, the main sport nationwide is college and high school football--the number of people attending college and high school football games in the fall dwarfs the attendance of the NFL. It appears that the NBA in-season tournament is scheduled for when the regular season of college and high school football is just finishing,. So, it seems that you are likely to be correct that this in-season tournament could be about getting these football fans to transition earlier to the next sport. |
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tox
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| as someone without a prior opinion, ocho has successfully convinced me the tournament is useless |
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Alpha
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Location: hawaii
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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I argued this on IG LOL.
If...we had to do this I do think that if they made the stakes more meaningful maybe...
How about final two teams get auto placement in the playoffs...say min 4th seed. Winner gets their draft seed increases by 10 spots and their Conference gets home court for the Finals. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if this is the last tournament they will ever add? Maybe there will be 2 or 3 mid season tournaments in the future, and we will see a team win the quadruple crown…all 3 mid season tournaments and the nba finals. |
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Alpha
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Posts: 25125
Location: hawaii
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Replace the all star weekend with this tournament but make it like ncaa march madness with stakes along the lines of what I mentioned previously. |
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