Kerr should return his coaching championship rings.
Dude is a fraud.
We can’t even say Canada had more playing time together because they were putting together at the same time with us, and today was more of an NBA style game instead of Fiba and we still lost. No ball movement, just ISO, unfortunately ANT sucked today. On the other hand, Canada moved the ball well, and got the mismatches they wanted. Josh hart at the 5 is madness….
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 44301 Location: LA to the Bay
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 7:04 am Post subject:
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game. _________________ #NiceWorkPelinka
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
If the US had all of their best players, like practically every other team in the tournament, they would have won each game by 20+ points.
If by changing their approach you mean getting all of their players to actually play, then I agree.
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
They started losing in 2002, so I don’t know why anyone still uses that excuse. Their records were much worse for World Cup compare to Olympic.
You can argue pop was not the right coach either. Coach K really was the perfect coach for team USA. Coach K teams at least has an identity on defense. Coach K was 75-1 coaching team usa( only loss was 2006 Fiba World Cup to Greece)
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
If the US had all of their best players, like practically every other team in the tournament, they would have won each game by 20+ points.
If by changing their approach you mean getting all of their players to actually play, then I agree.
No, that’s not true. 2008/2012 team USA had the best players and there were still very close games.
Canada missing Murray/wiggins
Serbia missing Jokic
Easty to blame the coaches, all of whom are known to have motion defense without a dominant big man in the middle
Eventually the players (especially the appointed/annointed leaders - Brunson & Ant Man) have to be accountable to stick to the game plans and realize that they needed to be consistent with their energy, intensity and commitment from the very start of games (especially the final games).
Team knew from the very beginning what their flaws and strengths were/are, along what is needed to win games. They could have beaten Germany and Serbia (if they would have won against German), but now have been handed an invaluable lesson on what it takes to actually win championships - since none of these players have experienced or learned what it takes to be a Winner.
Hopefully they will embrace that they need to bring much more to be Winners
Yes... it wasn't a talent issue at all. The talent was clearly there, but the pieces didn't fit together or they weren't being coached the right way. I saw no accountability out there. I didn't see anyone covering for one another on defense. I saw lazy box-outs and tons of ball watching. I saw players looking disinterested because the ball wasn't being passed to them.
It could have been fixed early on if Kerr became a disciplinarian and realized the strength of players and rearranged the units. He inflated their egos by saying Ant was indisputably "the guy" on the squad and made it into a 1 on 1 thing. You can't be the guy if you aren't holding your teammates accountable for their defensive lapses. You have to earn that and he never did. Hell, even Kobe wasn't the guy until much later on because it was a process for him.
This kind of circles back to something Damian Lillard brought up in one of JJ Redick's podcasts. All these players are coming in to the league, being coddled and anointed as "the guy" without knowing what it takes to be the guy. You gotta earn your stripes. Even my boy BI said he wanted to be the best player on the squad, but then ended up standing in the corner and taking 5 shots a game. He didn't assert himself, although some would blame Kerr's terrible utilization of him. It all goes back to terrible coaching.
If Kerr would put down "The Hammer" to these players that feel entitled and used to being "Da Man" on their respective teams - he probably would have lossed them.
What made the Dream Team great was that the top players (starting with MJ, Magic and Bird) set the tone right from the beginning that it was all business between the lines. The MJ-led team vs the Bird/Magic team went right after each other with a vengeance, dedication and purpose. The Black Mamba also stated that one has to "Earn" to being Da Man and Kerr/Ant Man (wonderfully and uber-talented players) didn't delivered as leaders.
Dame is right in his assessment
Everybody remembers when Kobe couldn't hit a basket during a Finals meeting against the Celtics, Kobe found other ways to win the game and The Ring.
If players in the starting lineup didn't get the word when they were not part of the closing lineups, what other signals/signs/indications/lower PT/etc. what else needs to happen to get these players need to get the message that they are not playing in an AAU game but competing against adults. These young uber-talented players with no experience of winnng Da Ring/Championships hopefully will be winners in the future.
Imagine if this team had One Adult Winner on the team, a move that could have been done by Grant Hill or suggested by Steve Kerr), like a Jimmy Butler - even players like PatBev to D.Rose to Marcus Smart would be able to coach on the court on what it takes to win clutch games.
Ghost of AAU ball indeed. I brought this up a month ago, well before the tournament was in full swing. Starting from the 2nd exhibition game, my poor outlook for the team was based how little they moved the ball and succumb to playing 1 on 1. The statistics confirmed it later on in the tournament. I believe they were ranked last in ball movement out of the 31 teams. A team can't be dead last in passes and then expect to win gold. It's just not happening in the current international scene. Teams are way more sophisticated than they were 20 years ago. Hell, even the 2012 Olympic team with 3 of the GOATs struggled to beat Spain. You either bring your A game and move the ball, or you'll be toast. It's that simple.
To be honest, I'm not so sure if a guy like Butler would have changed all of it, but I do feel like he understands the nuances of team ball much better than anyone else on the squad (minus Hali or BI). He'd have to overcome the horrendous coaching and philosophy that Kerr brought to the table. Watching him on the Heat, I don't think he'd try to be "the guy", even though he'd be capable of scoring 30-35 a game in the tournament. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
I love the Warriors but I think Mark Jackson is a better coach than Kerr. If Kerr was a good HC, then Luke Walton should be a HOF hc because Walton had a better record than Kerr did as a Warrior HC. _________________ Lakers under Jeanie Buss: 1 championship in 10+ years. "Championships are hard."
Lakers under Dr. Buss: 1 championship every 4 years on average. "Championships are easy."
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
If the US had all of their best players, like practically every other team in the tournament, they would have won each game by 20+ points.
If by changing their approach you mean getting all of their players to actually play, then I agree.
Hate to break it to you, but even if you send the "best" players, they aren't winning by 20 points. Not even close. The games will still be competitive. Those teams with Kobe, Bron, CP3, Kidd, Melo, KD struggled to beat Spain. The team that won gold two years ago lost to Nigeria. The games are all available on youtube if you don't believe me. What put them over the top was defensive fundamentals and rebounding.
The international scene has caught up. The solution isn't to send more shot-jackers and ball hogs. These players need a reality/ego check and need to be held accountable for their mishaps. Coaches get fired doing that in the modern NBA. Players have all the control and leverage. Go figure. And even if you send guys like Tatum, Dame or even KD and you'll get more of the same garbage. The problems won't be fixed. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
If US had the best players, then I could be the HC and Team USA would still win gold 100% guaranteed. _________________ Lakers under Jeanie Buss: 1 championship in 10+ years. "Championships are hard."
Lakers under Dr. Buss: 1 championship every 4 years on average. "Championships are easy."
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
We aren't really a national team, we're a marketing opportunity. The top players only buy in when it helps their brand, and they reserve the right to bail. It's not their fault entirely. The organization is looking to make money off of them too.
Bridges, Edwards, Reaves and Haliburton are a good base. If Team USA is doing it right, we try to get multi year commitments from them and add talent from there. _________________ Charter Member:
Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Rui "Black Samurai" Hachimura fan club
The "top" players (extremely subjective) bailed because they didn't want to risk the same embarrassment the current "B" or "C" team (their words, not mine) just went through. It would be disastrous for their brand. It's that simple. Ultimately, I think most of them realize that, with the competition being what it currently is, there is a risk of failure. If Serbia made it to the finals without Jokic, what would they do to the USA A-team if Jokic suited up? Jokic is the best player in the world by a decent margin, and he'd strategically cut them up the same way he did to the Lakers or Heat in the postseason. Just something to ponder when bringing up this whole "best players" charade.
And that brings me to the biggest issue- the players and coaching staff don't take it seriously. They see it more as a sabbatical than an actual tournament. I bet you they were more enthralled with the sightseeing and food in Manilla than representing their country. They didn't care enough to play team ball and treated it as a 1 on 1 showcase. I didn't see Kerr changing anything up or holding the players accountable. They legitimately believed the talent alone was enough to get by. Even those Kobe-led olympic teams with some of the GOAT talent wouldn't have closed out Spain if they played with the same level of aloofness the current team did. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5502 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:56 pm Post subject:
mad55557777 wrote:
Reds622 wrote:
TDRock wrote:
People are severely over-working the Kerr angle because they hate the Warriors (aka jealous of the Warriors success). There were problems with aspects of the coaching but he wasn't the coach last FIBA when USA came in 7th.
I agree with international broadcast commentator guy when he said it's time for USA Basketball to overhaul their whole approach. This isn't 1984 anymore where guys are asking for autographs during the game.
If the US had all of their best players, like practically every other team in the tournament, they would have won each game by 20+ points.
If by changing their approach you mean getting all of their players to actually play, then I agree.
No, that’s not true. 2008/2012 team USA had the best players and there were still very close games.
Canada missing Murray/wiggins
Serbia missing Jokic
No Jokic. No Vasilje Micic, who is on of the best Euroleague players. No Wembanyama (and potentially Embiid) for France. No Sabonis for Lithuania. Latvia didn't have Porzingis. Slovenia was down Vlatko Cancar and Edo Muric, who were both huge in our previous runs (2017 EC, 2021 Olympics and 2022 EC). Greece was without Giannis. Australia without Simmons. Not comparing those with the players US missed, but saying that every other team had their best players is simply not true.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35362 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:57 pm Post subject:
I didn’t watch, but I wonder if it’s the case that star players aren’t necessarily able to play as role players when needed. Like just because they are a better player than a role player in the NBA doesn’t mean they can perform the same tasks as the role player is able to. So it would almost be better to have actual role players on the team instead of stars. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
The "top" players (extremely subjective) bailed because they didn't want to risk the same embarrassment the current "B" or "C" team (their words, not mine) just went through. It would be disastrous for their brand. It's that simple. Ultimately, I think most of them realize that, with the competition being what it currently is, there is a risk of failure. If Serbia made it to the finals without Jokic, what would they do to the USA A-team if Jokic suited up? Jokic is the best player in the world by a decent margin, and he'd strategically cut them up the same way he did to the Lakers or Heat in the postseason. Just something to ponder when bringing up this whole "best players" charade.
And that brings me to the biggest issue- the players and coaching staff don't take it seriously. They see it more as a sabbatical than an actual tournament. I bet you they were more enthralled with the sightseeing and food in Manilla than representing their country. They didn't care enough to play team ball and treated it as a 1 on 1 showcase. I didn't see Kerr changing anything up or holding the players accountable. They legitimately believed the talent alone was enough to get by. Even those Kobe-led olympic teams with some of the GOAT talent wouldn't have closed out Spain if they played with the same level of aloofness the current team did.
On top of that the "top players" in the NBA are now mostly foreign-born. It's no longer the case that your Dream Team is going to be indisputably all or even mostly US-born. A lot of these top US-born players are also disproportionately older than their foreign-born counterparts. The Athletic put out an article placing the top players in tiers and of the top two tiers which was comprised of 18 players:
* 6 are foreign-born (Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Embiid, Murray, SGA). All are under 30
* 9 are U.S.-born but in their 30s (Steph, KD, Bron, Kawhi, Butler, PG, Dame, AD, Harden)
* only 3 are U.S.-born players under 30 (Tatum, Booker, Morant) _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
I feel like you can't take too much from FIBA play as it relates to NBA performance.
Just from casually following FIBA play, some of the best players are NBA role players or guys who tried to get to the NBA and couldn't. It's a different, more team-oriented style of play.
I remember Patty Mills dominating a few years ago. I think he had a good NBA season afterward for him, but it wasn't game-changing or anything.
If it causes Austin Reaves to be a little more aggressive on offense, I'll take that.
It was a good FIBA run for him though. I won't even panic over the defense because I think bad team defensive play can make a lot of players look awful.
And good for AR for having that kind of versatility. There were a few high-level NBA players who couldn't adjust at all to FIBA play.
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7726 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2023 5:40 pm Post subject:
gng930 wrote:
Denny_Russo wrote:
The "top" players (extremely subjective) bailed because they didn't want to risk the same embarrassment the current "B" or "C" team (their words, not mine) just went through. It would be disastrous for their brand. It's that simple. Ultimately, I think most of them realize that, with the competition being what it currently is, there is a risk of failure. If Serbia made it to the finals without Jokic, what would they do to the USA A-team if Jokic suited up? Jokic is the best player in the world by a decent margin, and he'd strategically cut them up the same way he did to the Lakers or Heat in the postseason. Just something to ponder when bringing up this whole "best players" charade.
And that brings me to the biggest issue- the players and coaching staff don't take it seriously. They see it more as a sabbatical than an actual tournament. I bet you they were more enthralled with the sightseeing and food in Manilla than representing their country. They didn't care enough to play team ball and treated it as a 1 on 1 showcase. I didn't see Kerr changing anything up or holding the players accountable. They legitimately believed the talent alone was enough to get by. Even those Kobe-led olympic teams with some of the GOAT talent wouldn't have closed out Spain if they played with the same level of aloofness the current team did.
On top of that the "top players" in the NBA are now mostly foreign-born. It's no longer the case that your Dream Team is going to be indisputably all or even mostly US-born. A lot of these top US-born players are also disproportionately older than their foreign-born counterparts. The Athletic put out an article placing the top players in tiers and of the top two tiers which was comprised of 18 players:
* 6 are foreign-born (Giannis, Jokic, Luka, Embiid, Murray, SGA). All are under 30
* 9 are U.S.-born but in their 30s (Steph, KD, Bron, Kawhi, Butler, PG, Dame, AD, Harden)
* only 3 are U.S.-born players under 30 (Tatum, Booker, Morant)
Having watched the entire game, it appear to be a high level AAU game/early season NBA game that lacked and/or couldn't match the intensity of the other international teams that placed a far greater priority on the games.
Appears that these games are part of the process of selecting the Olympic teams.
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