I thought this was discussed ad nauseum in the FA thread.
I mean if you can get Giannis you do everything to get him, but he will 200% retire a Buck, unfortunately. The championship sealed it for him.
Celtics will supermax Tatum next season. It will be the quickest negotiation in Celtics history.
I sense Donovan will be getting something similar to the supermax too.
Best thing Lakers can do is acquire and work on homegrown talent. Very fortunate to have guys like Reaves, Rui, Reddish and Hayes. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Top NBA Free Agent 2025
deal wrote:
LakerFan1987 wrote:
Yeah ... jumping forward since Lakers locked in AD and LBJ contract ending in 2025.
There 3 names that just stick out, no order but any of these guys teaming up w/AD and AR would be a dream.
- Jayson Tatum (He'll be eligible for that $300M deal, he'll be only 27)
- Giannis (Bucks old at that point, he'll be 31, wife is a Laker fan)
- Donovan Mitchell (he'll be 29, maybe he wants to go home to NY)
Home teams will want to pave the way for Tatum & Giannis to be lifers
Pretty much. Another option is targeting stars that are on dysfunctional teams and then collude with media agencies or the powers that be to generate rumors and faux outrage towards those teams/players. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe. _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe.
Interesting analysis, as always.
Thanks ! _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
We all know the most likely guy to join in 2025 FA is Donovan Mitchell, there has been noise about him being interested in the Lakers while guys are Tatum and Giannis are happy with where they are
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe.
Thanks for the break down. Really only Giannis or Jimmy Butler would be eligible for the 35% max from us since they would be 10 year vets. Obviously Jimmy is not really someone we would go after at all. Giannis we probably would gladly trade Gabe or Rui for if he wanted to come here.
Someone like Tatum would have to take the 30% max from us since he wouldn't be a 10 year vet instead of the 35% max from the Celtics. Which seems unlikely.
Brandon Ingram as of now would be a 30% max player for the Pelicans or free agent team. That could change if he makes an all NBA team the year before his free agency. I don't believe Donovan Mitchell could be eligible for 35% max at all before year 10 since he was traded after his rookie contract.
Last edited by eureca on Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
There’s cap space and then there’s leverage. Desirable players under contract are better than cap space. If a player like Giannis wants to come to LA, and we are short ten million, that’s plenty to leverage a deal. We might even be better off eating into that with other deals so long as they are moveable. At that point it becomes about who gets the assets you need to clear to make space. _________________ Charter Member:
Austin “Team USA” Reaves fan club.
Rui "Black Samurai" Hachimura fan club
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe.
Vincent would be a pretty easy salary to get off of if they end up needing the space.
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe.
Thanks again for the breakdown. The hope also of course is that MaxC's salary is a factor we have to account for.
Not sure if you ever got an answer for this but I've always wondered if you can reduce one of the roster charges by using the room MLE first. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
@G: I may be wrong, but I believe that isn’t allowed because it’s called an exception and so once your room has effectively run out, you can add a 14th via an “exception” even tho you capped out. It is a clever question/way to get back 1.36m in lost cap space, but my interpretation of Coon’s FAQ is that the order of operations would have to have it where the exception is used last, otherwise it would appear that the player making that room MLE amount, takes that amount directly out of the remaining cap space.
Quote:
Coon: A cap hold called an "incomplete roster charge" if the team has fewer than 12 players (players under contract, free agents included in team salary, players given offer sheets, and first round draft picks). This charge is equal to the rookie minimum salary for each player fewer than 12.
Since teams are required to have at least 13 players on their rosters, the roster charge reserves a minimum amount of cap space to sign 13 players. For example, if a team has 11 players on its roster, the roster charge reserves cap space to sign the team's 13th player, and the remainder can be used to sign the 12th player.
And here’s Coon’s explanation to exceptions (which he does a pretty good job in doing) and why they are named as such haha…
Quote:
Coon: If a team is below the cap, then its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level (either the Taxpayer or Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level, whichever applies to the team) and/or trade exceptions are added to their team salary, and the league treats the team as though they are over the cap. This is to prevent a loophole, in a manner similar to free agent amounts. A team can't act like it's under the cap and sign free agents using cap room, and then use its Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or trade exceptions. Consequently, the exceptions are added to the team salary (putting the team over the cap) if the team is under the cap and adding the exceptions puts them over the cap. If a team is already over the cap, then the exceptions are not added to their team salary. There would be no point in doing so, since there is no cap room for signing free agents.
There is logic behind this. The whole idea behind an "exception" is that it is an exception to the rule which says a team cannot go over the salary cap. In other words, an exception is a mechanism which allows a team to function above the cap. If a team isn't over the cap, then the concept of an exception is moot. Therefore, if a team's team salary ever drops this far, its exceptions go away. A rule of thumb is that a team may have either exceptions or cap room, but it can't have both at the same time. However, a team in this situation does qualify to use the Room Mid-Level exception.
_________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
Definitely Giannis. Even at 31, that's who I think the Lakers would look at.
Lock HOF.
Proven championship winner as the star/#1 option.
Would fit in well in Bron's role.
The thing is I'm not sure any of these dudes are passing up their super max extensions to wait and sign a 4 year deal with their team as a FA. That would be the logic. Such as AD. The minute he could get the money, he took it all. He didn't wait.
I can't see Tatum wait either. Unless I am missing something there, I think both Tatum and Giannis can be extended by 2024 (right?).
I see players like Mitchell being available, because their teams may not want to super max extend them. The type of star FAs you may get, are the sort of ones you probably don't want. Not at that price anyway.
Anyway, the players I'd easily say would fit in LA would be Giannis, and Luka.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 64913 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:41 am Post subject:
E_Wulf420 wrote:
Any chance they can bring back Ingram?
I don't think so. As far as I know, Zion will stay with the Pelicans. I don't think the Knicks offer was accepted. If Zion gets his head on straight and acknowledges his weight as a serious problem the Pelicans can be a contender. They were making a run when Zion went down. Their success is predicated on Williamson's health. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
@wolf, you’re right in that next offseason Giannis can negotiate a designated max extension that takes him to the 2029 offseason.
Currently he’s on a designated max extension with a player option for 2025/26 that would pay him 51.9m for that season. He & the Bucks could agree to opt out of that option as part of his new extension and that would add essentially 4 years of new money starting that season where his new annual would be 35% of what could be a 164.56m salary cap if it continue to rise at 10% up until the new TV deal kicks in.
His new money on a designated max extension would look like…
2025/26: 57.6m
2026/27: 62.2m (8% annual raises)
2027/28: 67.2m
2028/29: 72.6m
= 259.6m
It’s essentially the new money annuals that AD could potentially get in his extension, except Giannis can be given that additional 2028/29 season due to his designated distinction.
Same principles apply to Tatum since he is also of designated max distinction, but currently on a rookie extension instead and has a player option for that 2025/26 season that he could opt out from as part of the terms for a designated max extension.
And since he would be classified as a 8yr vet by the time 2025/26 comes around, his new money would look exactly like Giannis’s 35% and would give him that extra 2028/29 season as well.
If both those dudes get designated extensions next offseason, they won’t be able to get traded till the 2025 offseason…but I doubt they ever will, till they are well into their extension which makes it highly dubious we get them for either the 2025 or 2026 offseason, even if we had space to trade them into. _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
If the cap goes up to its max for the next 2 seasons before hitting 2025 free agency, then you’re looking at a projected salary cap of 164.56m.
Our books that summer would look like this…
AD 57.6m (1st year of max extension kicks in)
Rui 18.3m
Reaves 12.9m
Gabe 11.5m
JHS 4.1m (team option)
MaxL 2.2m (nonguaranteed)
= 107.6m for 6 guys & that’s not accounting for retention of our current players that have upcoming free agency like MaxC, Vando, etc.
also it does not account for our 2025 FRP, but let’s assume that’s the pick NO takes, which means that our 2024 FRP will have a cap hit applied towards our books during the summer of 2025…not to mention, we would have the cLips 2024 SRP on our books, unless we traded it away or draft and stashed it and we’d have our own 2025 & the cLips 2025 SRPs to account for as well.
All those are near minimum type salaries/cap holds anyways, so let’s just assume they would be a close equivalent to the IR charges of 1.36m that impact our cap space during the summer of 2025.
Applying those 6 IR charges (aggregated to 8.1m) to the 107.6m in team salary from above, we can project to have roughly 48.9m in cap space. Now the room MLE wouldn’t get in the way of that potential cap space, but that 48.9m in space is about 9m short from the 35% max that players like AD will meet that summer (see Giannis). In fact, that cap space would be about 500k short of a true 30% max that summer (ie 49.4m).
So when you think we can just swap Bron out with a max player, understand that this player would essentially have to agree in coming here on somewhat of a paycut when you incorporate all the other factors that would impact our cap space (such as draft picks for the next couple seasons as well as players we retained over the next 2 summers).
If you really want achieve a 2nd max type player to pair next to AD, you gotta get off the salary of either Rui, Reaves or Gabe.
Considering they're all last yr deals and they range from $12-19M, it will be an easy flip.
^You would think that right….but then again, we had Russ’s expiring this past year and that was hard AF to move…but yeah definitely not in the 12-19m range haha. However, we did potentially have 26.8m in expiring salaries this season, but chose not to exercise it 😬 _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
I don't think so. As far as I know, Zion will stay with the Pelicans. I don't think the Knicks offer was accepted. If Zion gets his head on straight and acknowledges his weight as a serious problem the Pelicans can be a contender. They were making a run when Zion went down. Their success is predicated on Williamson's health.
I see the Pels as one of the most dysfunctional franchises in all of sports, which is actually good news for the Lakers. I've never seen a franchise coddle their generational talent as much as the Pels do with Zion, and the NO media doesn't even hold the FO or team accountable. If Zion had to deal with the New York, Boston or LA media, boy would get cooked on the national stage every single day.
I think BI will get frustrated sooner rather than later with the situation there. Griffin says all the right things to the media, but if Cody Zeller was the best the Pels could do to help Ingram, they are done. They are paying CJ 35 million dollars to be a 3rd option on that team, too, so they have little cap flexibility thanks to poor money management. 2 straight years of carrying them without another star or shooting on that team. He'll eventually want to win. He'll keep his options open. Let's hope the bromance with AR and him continues. _________________ Yi Jianlian Fanboy. Respect The Chair.
Starting anew. I'm retiring my main.
Last edited by Denny_Russo on Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35365 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:22 am Post subject:
Denny_Russo wrote:
jodeke wrote:
E_Wulf420 wrote:
Any chance they can bring back Ingram?
I don't think so. As far as I know, Zion will stay with the Pelicans. I don't think the Knicks offer was accepted. If Zion gets his head on straight and acknowledges his weight as a serious problem the Pelicans can be a contender. They were making a run when Zion went down. Their success is predicated on Williamson's health.
I see the Pels as one of the most dysfunctional franchises in all of sports, which is actually good news for the Lakers. I've never seen a franchise coddle their generational talent as much as the Pels do with Zion, and the NO media doesn't even hold the FO or team accountable. If Zion had to deal with the New York, Boston or LA media, boy would get cooked on the national stage every single day.
I think BI will get frustrated sooner rather than later with the situation there. Griffin says all the right things to the media, but if Cody Zeller was the best the Pels could do to help Ingram, they are done. 2 straight years of carrying them without another star or shooting on that team. He'll eventually want to win. He'll keep his options open. Let's hope the bromance with AR and him continues.
Imagine how lopsided the AD trade would become if we got Ingram back… We would have dumped Lonzo and avoided signing him to a disastrous contract, rented Ingram out for a while, and given up the #4 pick and some others plus Hart. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
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